California dreaming
Last week I wrote a post celebrating the California supreme court's marriage decision, and asking that we defer comment, for just a few minutes, on whether that decision will be Good Or Bad For The Democrats. Some TPMCafe regulars commented on that request, thinking it, variously, disingenuous, a good reminder of the substance of the decision, and . Then I got an email from an editor at TNROnline asking if I could expand. Since there had been some discussion along these lines here after my post, I thought you all might want to check out the article.
Here's how it begins: "I wish I had clocked the minutes between the time that the California marriage decision was announced, and the time that the liberal punditocracy began whining about it. Yikes, those commitment-crazy gay people are going to lose the election for the Democrats yet again! This kneejerk complaint is more than a little annoying, for several reasons." Click here for the rest. I'll check back here irregularly today and this evening to see if any of you want to discuss.
PS I don't know if there's a TNR firewall that stops you from reading the piece. If there is, so sorry! I can't, contractually, repost the entire thing here yet, but if there's any demand for it, I'll see when/if I can.











Comments (9)
Thank you for your efforts, and good luck. Being a liberal and a Hillary supporter, I've already been through enough from my fellow liberals during this campaign. I can't even turn on Air America while I drive without hearing Hillary being bashed. So there is no way I'm ready to hear my fellow gays being bashed this early. I'll wait until the Republicans join in later.
May 20, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
This article is a very good antidote to the kind of stuff EJ Dionne was putting out. It might be nice to link to a whole slew of these things (including the EDITORIAL in the Washington Post and some other pieces that I have distributed for similar reasons.
See, eg:
http://www. realclearpolitics. com/articles/2008/05/unwise_haste_on_gay_marriage. html
This one is a real piece of work
I comment EJ Graff for putting out, with political savvy and expertise, what was previously just an intuitive disgust with the obvious cold-feet sophistry on this issue. Sometimes (as with the issue of flag-burning) one does indeed have to wonder about an issue, but this particular CA decision seems to weaken the power of a wedge issue, rather than its opposite. Maybe that's the very reason there are so many expressions of fudginess and cold feet -- precisely all the moreso where inapt!
May 20, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good article. This is a classic example of the reactionary side of so much of "liberal" advice over the past half century. Liberals opposed much of the civil rights movement up until 1964, supported the Viet Nam war up until 1969, criticized those who opposed it until the end and then blame the antiwar movement for every defeat the Democrats suffered since. It is only natural that they will now criticize the CA Supreme Court decision.
Progressives' stand on principle will not guarantee any immediate election victory, but note the big changes we have made.
May 20, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm, maybe I'm reading the wrong things. But on Liberal blogs I saw pretty much unapologetic, unconcerned joy -- without much thought to November, save perhaps for concern that the decision itself would be overturned. So I wonder if your essay (which I would agree with, I think, if I saw what you apparently saw) overstates the case.
May 20, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Stephen,
Sounds like you read more widely than I did. I was thinking of Jeffrey Rosen, E.J. Dionne, and expecting to hear more. I hope you're right!
EJ
May 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
The pseudo-realpolitik trashing of this legal AND POLITICAL victory may be one of those "grassroots" ideas that finds itself mainly among the pundits, who are pining for kudos for justifying the lying. Then it percolates down from the pundits to the astroturf roots, particularly among the many many folk out there who are eager to get with the program and win over kudos for themselves.
May 21, 2008 1:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
EJ,
Probably I just read different stuff. I'm disappointed in E J (the other) Dione, since he's usually good. But isn't Jeffery Rosen's whole shtick being a so-called liberal who does nothing but lament liberal court decisions, especially on social issues like abortion & gay marriage? Maybe I'm being unfair to the man -- I tend to skip his writings, precisely because of this sense -- but I wouldn't call him a liberal, at least on the issues he tends to write about.
There's a whole class of commentators who claim to be liberals on issues they *don't* write about, and spend all their time taking positions against liberals on the issues they actually write about. (With all due respect, they tend to congregate at the magazine your piece appeared in.) Calling them liberals is counter-productive. They're Liberdems.
But again, I read more blogs than op-ed columns, so my perspective's probably skewed left. (Or -- which on this issue tends to be the same thing -- skewed young.) Still, my subjective impression was simply happiness for a just decision, tempered (certainly in my case) by fear that it will only last for six months.
May 21, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
California may well pass a state level DOMA this year, which is bad news for gays-- and for that reason I do wish the courts had left this to the legislature which has passed gay mariage before and neded only wait until Der Governator hasr etired (and a Democrat is in office again in Sacramento) for this to be accomplsihed. Gay maraige established by legislative action would be a major victory and would be ruinous to the ani-ay right which manages to get a lot of mileage out of court-bashing since outright gay bashing no longer works quite as well with the general public.
But anyway, there's no way even a successful DOMA initiative will deliver California to McCain. The GOP is dreaming desperate fever dreams if it thinks so. In 2004 Michigan and Oregon (the former at least a good deal more socially consrvativet han California) both passed their own DOMAs-- and delivered tehir electoral votes for Kerry.
May 21, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dear E.J.,
I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your frequent words of sanity in an often hysterical surrounding. For a couple of years, I've stubled over your writings every now and then, and become increasingly impressed.
Myself, I've the fortune to come from a family where two Pietist aunts formed a partnership some time before World War One, and remained well integrated parts of the family until their deaths, including taking care of my grandmother's big brother when he was sent to town to go to school and university, and being the ones closest to my great grandfather when he became alone and aging. Of course only one of them were an aunt in the strict biological sense.
Not only to me as a child, but to our whole family, they were living (and loving) examples of how unthreathening the whole matter of same sex partnership actually is, when experienced in real life.
It's saddening to see the missteps and stumbles by queer activists in America, and by what ought to be their liberal supporters, when instead of the step-by-step approach successfully chosen by their European brethren they oscillate between Everything Everywhere Now and Don't Rock the Boat.
May 24, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink