Is Neoconservatism the American Mainstream?

My disagreement with Michael is an important one and he states it fairly. That said, I do not believe one has to follow Robert Kagan and say that the neo-conservatives are the sole heirs to the mainstream US foreign policy tradition in order to claim that the US is an expansionist imperial power rather than a status quo power. In fact, I don't share Michael's view that the prosecution of the Cold War was mainly responsive and defensive. I think Gar Alperowitz exaggerates the importance of warning of the Soviets in the decision to drop nuclear weapons on Japan, but surely this was at least part of the story. And was Vietnam a defensive war against Communist aggression? The Kennedy and Johnson administrations said as much, but it seems to a dubious claim, not to say an outright lie. But even were I to concede point, the American informal empire far predated the Cold War and in Latin America at least was a fact of life from Monroe to Reagan.
















Funny, that's exactly what I said yesterday. Too bad that the Book Club participants are ignoring the commenters this time around. You know, we actually want to be part of the dicussion with you, not to watch you all have a discussion.
May 8, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do not believe one has to follow Robert Kagan and say that the neo-conservatives are the sole heirs to the mainstream US foreign policy tradition in order to claim that the US is an expansionist imperial power rather than a status quo power
I would not hold my breath on that.
As I see it. They are having a conversation amongst themselves and we are having a conversation amongst ourselves about their conversation.
Given that I find this gem
So it's either expansionism or status quo (whatever that means). “sole heirs” is also a little arch. Nothing is really status quo in the world since things just have a habit of changing all the time. But suppose the status quo has been expansionism all along? Then it is expansionism ueber alles.
The problem I have with these "global" commentators is that it is all so vague an UN-analytical. Concert of Democracy, unipolar, bipolar, multipolar. But I guess vagueness comes with the territory.
The field does not lend itself to any kind of rigid analysis so that it is easy to pass bullshit as scholarship. We would not really know the difference and I venture to say they don't know either.
But that's all on par with the social sciences in general.
May 11, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
The status quo of American foreign policy always has been expansionism. That is, the U.S. is in a constant state of extending its military, economic, and political power.
May 13, 2008 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a victim/veteran of the Nixon-Kissinger Fig Leaf Contingent (Vietnam 1970-1972) I cannot take seriously any discussion of America's role in the world that does not proceed from Barbara Tuchman's classic definition of it: namely, "Folly," or "the pursuit of policy contrary to self interest."
Two iron laws of mindless bureaucratic growth explain how President Eisenhower's quaint "Military-Industrial Complex" has essentially self-inflated to the point of consuming America's capacity for rational self-government and effective policy-making. The ludicrous and completely unforced American reprise of Vietnam II in today's middle-eastern Bay of Goats only adds the insult of historical amnesia to the self-injury of vapid, venal vainglory. Expressed as a simple algebraic formula, American domestic/foreign "policy" amounts to this:
PARKINSON'S LAW + THE PETER PRINCIPLE = LUNATIC LEVIATHAN.
Or, the (unnecessary, made-up) "work" will expand to fill the (endless) time alloted for its (non) completion, while people in the hidebound hierarchy rise to their level of incompetence, producing nothing of value but only debilitating Warfare Welfare and Makework Militarism.
Or, as the Victorian poet Algernon Charles Swindburne wrote at the conclusion of "A Forsaken Garden":
Bluntly but fairly: America has crawled up its own constipated "conservative" asshole and nearly died -- again.
In fact, crypto-fascist domestic religious-politics reign supreme in America and have since at least since America's evangelical missionaries drove the so-called "Open Door" (i.e., equal colonial rights in subjugated China) policy at the begining of the twentieth century. Professor Tuchman accurately observed (at the end of her book Stillwell and the American Experience in China) that a half-century later, "China went her own way as if the Americans had never come." Ditto for Southeast Asia a quarter century after that. Ditto for Iraq and Afghanistan soon.
In fact, as Professor Tuchman stated in her classic The March of Folly, the American government reacts mainly to "intimidation by the rabid right at home" which proceeds from the social and psychological instigation and exploitation of various-and-nebulous public dreads like "Monolithic World Communism" or today's favorite closet monster, "Global World Terrorism." When Gore Vidal called Americans "among the most easily frightened people on earth," he did not exaggerate our tawdry temerity. We Americans "go to war" by going shopping on our posterity's already-overdrawn credit card. What sentient carbon-based life form above the level of the amaoeba could possibly consider us as anything but dangerously crazy?
Anyone who could dignify America's fascist-consumed Orwellian self-destruction by assuming it "thought out" or "reality based" needs their indidual and/or collective heads examined. Intimidation by the rabid right at home explains everything one needs to understand about the "conservative" American government from President Harry Truman through Dick Cheney's puerile propaganda-catapult, Deputy Dubya Bush. Attempting to cloak crass institutional credulity in the melliflously modulated mush of delicate doublethink fails to disguise the truth of what we drafted or bullied-into-enlisting types said back in the day in Southeast Asia: namely, that ...
"We are the unwilling led by the unqualified to do the unnecessary for the ungrateful."
"We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here."
"We lost the day we started. We win the day we stop."
Updated to today's cliche-spewing rendition of the same madness:
"The tipping point will soon turn the corner and begin connecting the dots on the ink-stained flypaper dominoes in the tunnel at the end of the light."
Americans most need to discuss mental illness -- their own -- and cease presuming to understand what happens in other countries who most often go their own way as if us bungling, meddling Americans had never come.
May 8, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bravo Michael!
May 8, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
And although every single piece of actual scholarship from 1972 on supports your point-- this is the thing that gets you branded a "conspiracy theorist."
May 9, 2008 2:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant comment. You should turn this into a blog.
May 9, 2008 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. It reads like you didn't take pause to breathe writing it, just rode the wind. It was wonderful to find here.
May 10, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The US has always been an expansionist state. It seems difficult to deny this truth when you look at what we have actually done as a nation historically.
Sure, for a brief period of time during and after World War II fighting for and defending "freedom" was a real part of what the US did in the world, but it was never the primary or motivating force and it certainly has little to do with the use of the American military since 2001.
Looking beyond the imperial contest between the US and USSR in Viet Nam and the foolish attempt to get an imperial foothold in Iraq, just a quick survey of US actions over time reveal a pretty strong expansionist and imperial pattern of behavior.
We grabbed Florida.
We purchased "Louisiana" from a cash strapped, ailing imperial France
We stole the entire southwestern US from Mexico
As in the case of Louisiana we purchased Alask from a cash strapped, ailing imperial Russia
We ran off or killed the native population of this land from day one, but did so with particularly systematic determination west of the Mississippi after 1865 to make way for US/white expansion to the pacific and the northwest
We expanded US territory west to Hawaii by means of an illegitimate coup backed up by American naval power forcing the sovereign to abdicate
We "acquired" The Phillipines and then had to enforce that acquisition on the native population by means of crushing the homegrown nationalists of that nation after the Spanish War
We "acquired" Puerto Rico as a dividend of the Spanish War
For all intents and purposes we owned Cuba between the Spanish War and Castro's revolution
We completely dominated the western hemisphere (as we still do with little exception) south of our borders. For enlightening commentary from the early 20th Century on this point see H. L. Mencken's reportage on various "Pan-American" conferences when US Representatives directed all the action and positions of it's "junior" partner governments (otherwise known I believe as client states).
Also, our military interventions of various types and duration since the late 19th Century throughout the hemisphere incliding in:
Argentina
Chile
Haiti
Nicaragua
Panama
Honduras
Dominican Republic
Guatemala
Costa Rica
We have projected our military forces throughout the world since the end of World War II to protect "American interests" over and above what it would ever have taken to contain the power of the Soviets though that we did. Those interests have, in most cases, been the business interests of large American corporations. Until recently, the US has had such overwhelming and dominant economic power that it was able to secure business "deals" with other nations that were completely out of balance in favor of the US "interests". It has often been on behalf of these "interests" that the US has aligned itself with abominable autocrats, dictators, tyrants and thugs of every stripe and which has earned the US the disdain of millions around the world.
Our government and military have been used frequently on behalf of these businesses disguised as our national "interest". Their power has often been deployed in direct contravention to the national interest of the people of the United States who have believed our nation to be securing greater political and economic freedom for people around the world when in reality it was the narrow business interests of a relatively few wealthy, powerful people.
The question, it seems to me, is whether or not the United States will realize that it is utterly foolish to attempt to continue to control the economic empire it has built through military means. Never has this strategy succeeded for long. It always ends poorly for the imperial power because it is simply unsustainable.
What would, in my view, make sense is if the US would adopt a long term strategy that has faith in the values we have always said we wanted to see throughout the world of comity and peaceful and free commerce between nations of popularly supported governments that respect the human, civil and economic rights of their people. That would protect us in a way no bomb or weapons system can.
May 8, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
The question posed was are we an expansionist power or a status quo power. Well let's put it this way, after we gobble up another nation we are a status quo nation.
May 11, 2008 11:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is neoconservatism mainstream? I suppose it all depends on what mainstream is?
If mainstream is the populace of this country, no.
If mainstream is our government, yes it is.
I will not regurgitate what I have here, but if you want a rather lengthy read, please check it out. This is my take on whether the mainstream vis a vis out government is neoconservative. And I fear that it took them 20+ years to attain the power they have, it will be unlikely they will give it up too easily.
And too much is in place to do just that...not go away - willingly, at least.
Check out my link above and feel free to join the discussion. Am I wrong? God, for my friends, my family, my neighbors, and my country, I hope so.
May 8, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
FDR's foreign policy appeared to be different in that it stressed state sovereignty as written which was written in the Atlantic Charter of 1941. Elzabeth Borgwardt's describes Roosevelt's foreign policy in her book A New Deal for the World, which details how Roosevelt believed that we are all citizens of the world and human rights must be respected. However state sovereignty has to be respected and the United States can only act multilaterally and with the consent of the UN in order to enforce international norms. However this view was quicky discarded once Henry Truman came into office and started helping the European colonial powers, especially the French in Vietnam, to retain their possessions in order to expand American influence.
May 8, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
. . . the case of Indo-China is perfectly clear. France has milked it for one hundred years. The people of IndoChina are entitled to something better than that. FDR Memo to Cordell Hull, 1/24/1944
Would Cochin China have been a trusteeship, despite Churchill's antipathy -- and he would have been Atleed-out of office anyway -- had FDR survived?
May 8, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry for the typos in the first sentence
May 8, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems to me that neither Lind nor Rieff give the power of mythic language its due.
From 1942 through today(?) Americans were and are induced to believe the myth that the United States fought WWII for "freedom" rather than the reality that it fought back against two aggressive, expansionist states which had declared war on it.
Thus, American voters and a Kansas City haberdasher were unprepared to seek an accommodation (detente) with a Soviet Union, which to secure its borders promoted authoritarian communist regimes in its western marches (Poland, the Ostmark, Bohemia, Moravia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, etc.). The idea that the leadership of a country which had lost 20 million of its citizens could, after Kursk, do anything else was fantasy.
But because admitting that reality would damage a mythology to which all sides of America's elite subscribed, the United States embarked upon the Cold War -- not to advance its commercial interests (the world was flat on its back) but rather to preserve its amour propre.
May 8, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.
May 9, 2008 2:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bravo Ellen! Having read plenty of your comments for a year or two, I have for too long waited for this very moment when I finally would appreciate and understand a remark from you. As a change, I feel my understanding for your position is increasing.
However, although your notion as authoritarian is perfectly correct, it does reflect a lacking American understanding for the differentness of The Other, in this case for the Soviet Union. A disinterest that shows in many contexts and that maybe in the end will be deemed America's Achilles heel.
Seen from the perspective of the Soviet power elite and people, that issue was insignificantu. What was important was that such political popular movements that were considered a threat would be barred from gaining power in the countries along the border - first of all Fascism and later maybe even more so Capitalism.
The myth about Workers' and Farmers' States was still powerful. Democracy in the form of Parliamentary Government had proved to be the road to Fascism, abolished Democracy, and Wars of Aggression. In that context it was of no relevance whether the governments set up in the occupied territories were authoritarian.
May 9, 2008 2:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Neoconservatism as defined by the PNAC-nuts has been proved illconceived. It would take too much space, but all neoconservatism can or has been shown to be idiotic. It has no answers. It is idealogically barren. It doesn't mean the neocons will give up. They will hang on like the remnants of Italian or German fascism, or Yugoslav, Albanian or Soviet Communism, or Chinese aparatchiks now, for a couple of generations. Or more.
Much as the US likes to point its finger critically at the traditional imperialist, colonialist nations -- Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal and, of course, Great Britain -- and their slow release of bad habits, she is herself the ultimate imperialist. And with the rise of neoconservative doctrine, resurgent in this role.
As a group of colonialist white boys, they split from their mother countries and then proceed to dominate the continent and hemisphere by absolute racial differentiation, using slavery, ethnic cleansing, expropriation, concentration (reservations), genocide, war, purchase and blackmail. There's little any West European colonialist has done that the USA didn't match on its own doorstep.
The conflict for identity we are witnessing, a Jekyll and Hyde dualism, is one that seems inured to US national character, and her history is rich with it. From the enlightenment of the founding fathers to their blindness to racism despite their direct language. The need to survive as a nation leading to decisions that compromise principles. The momentous 1917 decision to intervene in Europe. From the repetition of the barons of the early 20th century to today's wealth grab. The 1930s change of direction to a more social -- rather than frontier -- society, leading through WWII to all the cooperative world institutions and levers established today, and the USA's close cooperation with a broad alliance of Western nations, plus a number in the Far East.
An extraordinary change of direction.
The kick-back came not with VietNam, but because of the failure, and with Reagan and following. He defined a need to reestablish US confidence and self belief, resulting, ultimately and unfortunately, in a a hubristic expression of hegemony in the worst and most embarrassing way.
George W. Bush will go down as being the wrong man, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
No god involved here.
It's to be seen if the US can recover in a mature, sensible and constructive manner, embracing her partners and the world, or needs to re-express her(!) testosterone in the disasterous manner of this immature, inexperienced and delusional administration.
So, is neoconservatism the mainstream? Within a certain faction of the right, yes! Among a certain proportion of Ramboesque citizenry, yes!
Overall, just part of the US personality that needs resolving within a greater whole.
May 9, 2008 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Informal empire??? That seems to be another way of saying there was not an Americsn empire.
May 9, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
NEO- CONSERVATIVES, MAINSTREAM? THESE PEOPLE ARE A THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES AND SHOULD BE LISTED AS SO. THEIR LOYALTY LIES WITH ISRAEL AND MOST AMERICANS KNOW THAT NOW. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT MOST OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY IN THE US AS WELL AS ISRAEL DO NOT APPOVE OF THEIR WAR MONGERING POLICES.
May 9, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
It would help if you would define what you mean by empire. The term in a traditional sense would refer to direct occupation of foreign lands, like the Roman, British and Ottoman empires.
But the history of intervention by the United States in world affairs doesn't really follow that pattern. Putting a military base in Korea, for instance, isn't the same as occupying Korea.
I mean, how can you say that America is expansionistic when it hasn't added any territory to its holdings in at least the last 50 years??!!!
What the hell are you talking about??!!
May 9, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Bill Clinton might say, "I feel your frustration." But --
A nation which has 700+ military bases in foreign countries, which with some degree of regularity bombs whomever catches its eye, which shuffles the membership of its lapdog oligarchies whenever it suits it, and which strides about the world with nary a care as to the damage it occasions seems more an imperialist than a hegemon.
You know the drill: If it walks like a . . . .
May 9, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I said above the status quo has a nasty habit of changing with time.
Even so empires of old did not literally occupy their outside territories by sheer force.
You could look at it this way: "Empire" has been refined. Consider Hillary's injudicious "obliteration" remark. What need is there for invasion when you can threaten obliteration?
Empire was always maintained more by threat than by actual force.
May 11, 2008 11:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it neoconservatives we need to be worried about? What about those who are making free speech illegal? see http://www.silencingchristians.com and then tell me that neoconservatives are in control.
Jim Anderson
http://www.thetruthaboutcredit.com
May 9, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The inescapable and singularly most formative element of U.S. foreign policy in a post WWII era has been what is good for U.S. corporate interests. Not only is this true but the condition has grown more flagrant over time and shows no sign of abating. This matches precisely domestic policy where the interests of the majority working class and consumer has suffered decidedly one-sided legislative defeats too numerous to count.
The ruling political and financial elite of this nation have usurped and abused power in every way possible. At the heart of this is total financial control of the entire U.S. economic unit. Virtually everything congress does is about centralization of U.S., and where possible, global economic power. Because of this the U.S. bears little or no resemblance to the U.S. of 1950.
However we are fast approaching a global economic reckoning that I suspect will soundly and uncomfortably rebuke the manner in which our government has improperly conducted itself in this regard. It is one thing to do this to an unsuspecting and all too trusting (stupid) American public. That won't work anymore on a global scale. Do you really think the price of oil is about anything more than the fact that the Bush WH has pissed off most, if not all, Arab states? Do you think China is going to stand idly by while Americans trash Chinese manufacturers without acknowledging that U.S. corporate interests willingly play a part in the production of substandard products?
Wake up America!!! It's just not possible to look down our noses at the rest of the world without there being some consequence.
May 10, 2008 7:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
In answer to the question title. I sure as hell hope not. 'Cause if neoconservatism is the mainstream America is doomed.
May 11, 2008 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
just making sure we all understand the nuanced meaning of Amour propre
May 11, 2008 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Neocons, Americans Abroad and the Wilson Project they are all the same SOBs. Ones is the Republican crazies and the other is the Democratic crazes.
There is influence, power and MONEY in carrying the water for either one. The problem is that carrying this water is at the expense of your country.
Politicians, Media and Blogs that support these groups are guilty of treason. They would never say I am sorry I have but one live to give for my country. They would say I am sorry I do not have more lives of others to sacrifice for the cause!
May 13, 2008 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Our nation's history has deep roots, spanning more than many thousands of years, and reaching deep into regions below the superficial awarenesses of contemporary cultures and their present times. One of these roots of today's globally extended reach of European civilization, is the history of a continuing institutional phenomenon, called imperialism, a phenomenon no less ancient than what the principal surviving leader of Christianity then, the Apostle John, identified as that old whore called Babylon.
This principle of empire is not something merely to be described; the principle is that which has generated every known empire based in Europe and the Mediterranean region, and their extensions beyond, since no later than the historical time referenced by Giuseppe Verdi's Nabucco.
Empire is, in principle, a self-subsisting form of foul disease, which infects sundry locales in each time it appears as if reincarnated.
Therefore, to understand empire, we must look at it from the top, down, rather than as credulous historians and others have done, from the bottom up.
THE CURRENT STRATEGIC SITUATION:
Our World-Outlook Now
by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2008/3524world_outlook_now.html
July 3, 2008 3:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
1932: The Video
To Govern a Republic, One Must Know the Minds That Created It.
"...while a nation goes speculation crazy the people neglect to think of fundamental principles."
These were the words of Franklin Roosevelt in the months leading into the Democratic National Convention of 1932. Roosevelt knew that the fight for the United States Presidency was not simply a game of political machines and punditry, but that this coming fight demanded a leader who understood the historic enemy of the United States and the founding principles of the nation.
http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2008/07/02/1932-video.html
July 4, 2008 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink