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Battered by Health Insurance

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I spend a lot of time measuring the costs of the current health care system, mostly in counting the broken families that end up in bankruptcy. For families hit with medical bills they cannot pay, the current health care system magnifies their pain. But even those who have health insurance and can afford to pay are knocked around in a broken system. A friend--with insurance--had some minor surgery a while back. She bounced back quickly, but the pain of trying to pay is still not over:

I got a letter from the hospital very nicely demanding payment of over $500 today.The hospital thinks I owe them $438 more than I actually owe them because the insurance company sent that amount to the doctor. The doctor, of course, won't send it to the hospital. Instead, I had to call the insurance company to ask them to recall the payment so they can then send it to the hospital.

If I fax the explanation of benefits to the hospital, they won't turn my account over to collections (that, despite the fact that I have already paid $300 and call them about once a week to work on this problem.) And most amusing is the fact that the doctors' group and the insurance company are managed by the same company.

You cannot imagine how much effort has gone into figuring out what I actually owe. I have never received (despite repeated requests) an itemized bill from the hospital. I only made it this far by talking for 20 minutes to the supervisor of the billing department! He's the one who figured out that the insurance company had denied the claim for all the injections I received while in surgery. I called the insurance company last month and they fixed this, but sent the payment ($438) to the doctor instead of the hospital.

Complicating this is the fact that the hospital keeps a running total of all amounts due, so the fact that I had another expense (bone scan) makes it hard to keep the surgery bill separate.

And the doctor's billing department just billed me for a co-pay that I already paid ("We're working on that problem" she told me!!) There are now four doctors' bills involved:
1. the surgeon, who was paid in full;
2. the anesthesiologist, who was paid in full;
3. the doctor who saw me for the follow-up visit (who was paid, and I paid the copay, which was lost and now found) and
4. the radiologist for the bone scan.
5. Oh! I forgot, and the pathologist from the surgery!!

So today I figured out that I owed only $2.30, to the pathologist (somehow that was my copay!) and about $98 to the hospital after they track down the payment that went to the doctor.

How on earth would a sick person work through this mess? And how would a person who couldn't take an hour a week off for 6 weeks to deal with this ever get payments straight? The worst part is that I am incredibly lucky to be in this situation because I have health insurance.
This isn't about getting more health insurance. This is about a system that is broken even for those who have health insurance. This is about waste and inefficiency and burning up dollars that should go to medical treatment. Where are the serious proposals to cut through this nonsense and waste?


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Foolish socialist citizen.
Please stop referring to "healthcare," by referring to "healthcare" you do a great disservice to our glorious HEALTH INDUSTRY.
INDUSTRY. Got that?
The INDUSTRY is HEALTHY and that is all we need to CARE about.
F***ing sick people, always f***ing whining about something.

;-)

I don't have much to say about the article, but maybe adding a closing italic tag will stop all the posts on the page from being in italics.

While I don't doubt the legitimacy of the anecdote, the thesis would be better supported with some notion of how frequent such problems are, and/or some estimate of the cost burden this adds to the health care system. I'm all for generous valuations for the cost of frustration consumers have in dealing with such bureaucracy!

First attempt at hacking the italics failed. So this is my last shot:
Italicize this, then remove it. Or try making a bold statement...

I feel like H.W. for saying "Read My Lips".... I've got one more hack to try.

From the page source, there's an extra tag in the main post that isn't closed out. Maybe this helps...

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Having had my life turned upsidedown with my daughters medical condition, I feel for your friend, and yes, she's one of the lucky ones.

My ex-in-laws watched as an insurance company cancelled--not just them--but their whole company because they had the misfortune of having a premature baby.

Insurance is nothing more than legalized graft. They take your money, and if you have the audacity to file a claim, they'll make your life hell and do everything in their power NOT to pay out.

Oh, and tell your friend, they do NOT appreciate muggs, er, clients, going through the hospitals accounts and finding errors. My ex-in-laws did that, going so far as requesting that the half dozen doctors that went through their sons room, initialed a chart and billed for it, cease and desist.

They don't like being made to do their job.

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I just had orthoscopic knee surgery. The surgery lasted 45 minutes and I was in the hospital a total of ... FIVE hours. The hospital and various doctors billed my insurer, my state's "risk" pool, which is the only insurance I can get apparently because I have asthma, a total of over $10,000. The insurer paid about $3500, says I owe $2500, which doesn't include the costs of extensive physical therapy that I haven't been billed for yet.

These astronomical amounts don't include the fact that because I can't take non-steroidals, the knee surgeon didn't know how to manage my osteoarthritis they found during surgery and wasn't willing to take the time to find out. I had to myself go searching for a specialist to help me with this, at significant additional expense for the doctor and the medication. The providers are both connected with a local teaching university but I had to make separate arrangements for payment with the doctors and the hospitals, thus doubling my monthly payments.

I am paying over $10,000 year or more for insurance premiums, the $2000 deductible, co-pays and necessary but uncovered procedures, in effect, another mortgage. I am self-employed and not working much at the moment and living on a small inheritance as I care for an elderly parent. My medical expenses are over 25% of my income. I am not eligible to apply for discounted insurance until a year after the year that I earned a reduced amount qualifying for the discount.

And I'm lucky to have the "insurance." Everyone tells me so. For one thing, I was in so much pain before the surgery and was unable to walk. Frankly, I would have given just about everything I had to make the pain stop stop. Another reason I'm lucky to have and barely be able to afford this insurance which is slowly bankrupting me is that one of the nurses that state hires to follow up with patients with this insurance told me yesterday that, though she works for this "insurance" company, as an employee, her premiums are going up to over $1000 month for her family and as of next month, she will be forced to decline coverage. Our state legislature took a look late last year at the possibility of finding a way to reduce premiums with it's "risk" pool coverage and concluded, nope, it couldn't do a darn thing to help. Us poor suckers who have no other choices are just so lucky to have insurance at all.

This is insurance? Hah! This is highway robbery. If I recall correctly, we were sold managed care a few decades ago because the system was supposed to prevent doctors and other providers from adding undue costs. Keeping costs down and setting up a larger pool to spread the risks meant we would all have access to health care for less money. Now we have a system, one of the most, if not the most, expensive in the world and nowhere near the highest quality or accessibility, that benefits few but those rich enough to afford it and those who draw the substantial profits from it.

I've been threatening for a while now to start a snarky website attacking the insurance industry called sendkathymoney.com. If you send Kathy money, she won't give you much of anything of value for your dollars but so? How's that any different than the so-called insurance industry? At least if you're generous enough to send Kathy your hard earned cash, she won't hassle you and make your life an accounting and negotiating hell.

This situation is beyond outrageous and any politician or right wing enabler who refuses to see it and who refuses to take any responsibility for fixing it should be shamed and shunned by the people they pretend to represent. Now, let's see, what's more important to Congress right now that making sure every American has affordable access to medical care? Oh, yeah, that's right, apparently the top priorities are figuring out how to give immunity to the arrogant criminals in this administration and their corporate co-conspirator for their wholesale violations of our constitutional rights and how to continue paying for a misbegotten war that if not illegal was a very, very bad idea in both conception and execution, along with the billions being siphoned off by greedy contractors. And the priority of the media? Apparently to keep us all barefoot and stupid with non-stop stories about celebrities and candidate haircuts and BBQs and the insulted but not bitter working class and Obama's intemperate pastor, all the while that their corporate sponsors and the politicians they depend on rob us all blind.

Am I bitter? Me? What in the hell is there to be better about?

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I own a small company which insures through Oxford Health Plan, now a division of United Health Care, one of the largest insurers in the country. The plan year begins today, May 1st, and premiums are up 17.8% over last year and copays etc are up as well for the same plan. Over the past few years premiums have risen and we have signed up for plans with lower and lower services. It's a nightmare. The premium for a family (which I calculate at 3.1 people based on the premium) amounts to about $19,000 and that includes a $2000 per person deductible for each. So, you would need about $26,000 out of pocket medical costs before the plan kicks in.

I and my wife, however, are in Medicare, not in our company's plan, and a supplemental Plan J through AARP which also uses United Health Care. Our family premiums are really very nominal. I had a serious illness this past winter involving 10 days in hospital, 6 in ICU, many x-rays, CT scans, MRIs, blood tests surgery, anesthesia, ambulance rides, a walker, home nursing care and PT for two weeks and I don't think I owe anyone anything, or at least I haven't heard about it yet.

As I lay in my hospital bed, I discovered the virtue - the only one - of being over 65 and gave thanks to America and the American people and Yale-New Haven hospital for the absolute finest in care - for my life, in fact - without having to worry about being drained of all my savings. What a relief! The physicians and nurses didn't have to get anyone's approval when I wanted a Tylenol, and I felt grateful and relieved every moment.

Now, I will inject politics into my comments. I know that Hillary Clinton is unabashedly in favor of Universal Health Care and so am I. I know that Barack Obama is closer to the staus quo and I don't think that's enough. I have heard in the last few days that McCain wants to retrogress even from the status quo, which is laughable, but no one is laughing.

Health Care is the number one issue in economic and civil life in this country and only one candidate, and John Edwards, gets it.

How would I pay for it? I would combine Social Security and Medicare into one agency and have a combined payroll deduction from everyone with no salary cap, with a minimum salary exemption for low and low-middle earners, and find some other tax - on capital gains of tax-free pension plans perhaps - to pay for it. Social Security and Medicare are the great social contracts between the Government and the people and represent the backbone of our country and must be preserved and strengthened.

Elizabeth Warren for President!

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Giving thanks to the American people.

Actually, you don't have to do that in the abstract. You can thank Dindrane for subsidizing your Medicare costs to the tune of about $4000 a year and your fellow workers to the tune of about $8-10,000 a year, directly.

Thanks guys.

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Your post seems just snarky or is there something to be learned from it that I don't get?

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How on earth would a sick person work through this mess?

Good question. Would it be better or worse if you were dealing with civil servants, like at the VA?

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Abso-fucking-lutely.

Civil servants ARE answerable to the public. Dickhead, rude, authoritarian, profit-hungry, capatilists are not.

I'm sick and tired of folks dissing the VA. Let me tell you something, folks get a lot more bang for the buck there.

Is it perfect? Hell no, but it's paradise compared to the system we got.

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Not only is it a hassle with the insurance and medical providers - but usually leads to a bigger problem with collection agencies for the paid-but-not-paid ongoing argument about the bill. Hospitals and medical providers are pretty quick to send bills to collection, regardless of ongoing disputes.

This new ultra-speedy collection process then leads to Credit Report negatives, leads to FICO score decrease, leads to higher credit card interest rates - all faster than you can complain that it was all a mistake about a billing/insurance error.

Once again - there is no recourse for the consumer, and I am really starting to believe there is serious collusion between corporations billing us incorrectly and Credit Reporting Agencies and Fair Isaac. How is it allowed that a private company like Fair Isaac can ruin our lives over a disputed bill?

Thank you Ms. Warren, for speaking for so many that never get a voice in this financial mess.

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healthcare is what i worry about the most as our economy starts to fall. once unemployment rises, existing subscribers will be dropped from their plans in addition to the lack-of-coverage crisis, and then healthcare will be universally unaffordable.

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This is why all of the politicians who think it's a good idea to subsidize people to buy insurance policies deserve to go through the mill themselves.

What would be funny in another world is that the hospital has almost certainly spent that $438 in the cost of having people on the phone for hour after hour figuring out what's wrong with the billing. If not, your friend certainly has. (I've often thought that there would be a salutary change in US business practice if customers could charge an appropriate hourly rate for time spent straightening out billing and other errors.)

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I do wish that, in every article on the "joys" of individual, private insurance of whatever kind, it would be noted in big type that the vast majority of people who are above the age of 30 could not get a policy. Not a high-cost, high-deductible policy. Not a hospital only policy. None. Nada.

And you needn't have a chronic condition. If you had childhood asthma, you're denied. If you had a benign mole removed, you're denied. If you had a concussion, you're denied. If you've ever had a broken bone, denied. And if, like John McCain, you've had cancer, you're denied. Further if one insurer denies you, all of the others will ask whether or not you've been denied elsewhere. If you answer honestly, denied.

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I have been an RN since 1984 and I have only 3 words to say NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE. If you don't think we need it then ask yourself how much would you be willing to pay to save your right arm? or your child/s vision/life/limbs? WHat are they really worth in dollars? I am not being facetious. Would you be willing to sell your home to save your child? Go into bankrupcy for a bypass operation? These things cannot have a dollar value attached but that is our current system. NO preventative care because people wait until things get so bad something has to be done. Meanwhile the myths about National Helath Insurance live on. Everyone says "Do you want a system like France has?" YES YES YES we do. Their system is better than ours. Their numbers bear out-lower infant and naternal death rates, easier access to care, shorter wait times for care less cost for care. Don't let big insurance/pharma companies fool you-the system is great for them--not for sick injured people. Get well or die, just don't ask them to pay for any care.

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