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Obama: Dump Wright Now Before He Destroys You

Does the Obama campaign have any idea how much damage this preening fool of a minister is doing to this campaign?

Pretty much everyone I know supports Obama, morally and financially. But, to a person, they are beginning to believe that Obama will not be the 44th President, no how, no way.

No, they don't think Hillary will be either. They think, and I'm beginning to think, that McCain is going to be sworn in on 1-20-09.

It is not Wright himself that bothers us. It is that Obama does not utterly and completely repudiate a man who is willfully and with malice aforethought doing him profound and possibly fatal damage.

We don't care about Wright's views on racism, the Middle East or Farrakhan. He's just another media preacher. And not one of us believes that Barack Obama shares any of his views.

That is why we need Obama to divest himself of this guy. Not doing so, allowing this buffoon to hurt the most promising campaign of a generation, would demonstrate a weakness we cannot have in a President. We have lost the greatest leaders of our time to assassination; we can't afford to lose this one to a self-absorbed, arrogant, character assassin.


Comments (162)

America is in deep doo-doo because of its long-running immoral policies. Along comes a pastor who calls the government out on it, and a presidential contender says he's wrong. I don't buy it.

For too long the US has been crippled by political pastors, the Billy Grahams who pandered to Tricky Dick and the like. Now we have a pastor, one with military experience no less, who calls it the way it is.

The First Amendment in the USA separates church and state, but people still want to combine them. A huge banner on a church near me states: "One Nation Under God, Indivisible" The clear implication is that the US and God are indivisible. Baloney. We have watched presidential candidates being grilled on their religious beliefs, in clear denial of the Constitution which states that there should be no religious test for office in the US. It's wrong to expect God and his followers to pledge allegiance to the USA in a church.

Reverend Wright is not a politician, that's clear. His calling is not to make politicians look good, but to deliver the word of his God. For heaven's sakes, let him do it. Don't put a leash on Reverend Wright; he is a patriot and we need him in Gitlin's "Big Tent."

As for what Obama should do, here's another test of his self-promoted judgment. If he does the (w)right thing he will separate politics and religion. If he does the wrong thing he will make nation and church indivisible.

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Its the VOTERS who are denouncing Wright. Those voters are taking a closer look and reassessing their Pollyanna-like attraction to a man they thought was unaffected by the issue of Race and the notion of Equal-But-Separate Americas and they aren't liking what they see. You can blame Clinton and her proxies but then you're simply saying that the voters are idiots and need to listen to what Obama says, not what he and his lifelong influences do. That's the worst sort of elitism.

DUMP THE CHUMP?

How many dumps should Barry take? Rezdo, Auchi, Blackwell, Ayers, Soros. That's like diarrhea dude. Barry needs to hold his mud or he'll deflate!

Show some loyalty Barry!

HOPE CHANGE does not mean Wright shuts up.

He's no patriot. If he was, he'd not be doing his part to keep the GOP in power for four more years.

I watched him at the press club. He sure enjoys himself. He's a fool.

A fool, MJ? I don't much like preacher's in general but watching him answer questions about his own patriotism by referencing Cheney was just one of those "wish I could have said that," moments for me.

In the end, Wright won't ever be making policy so I don't much care what he thinks or believes. And he has been treated shabbily by the media so I understand why he's ticked off. But Obama dealt with this once before and without having to do the usual "I repudiate the guy," routine. Why should he go back to the "throw your friends under a bus" way of American politics?

“You don’t have to say that [Wright's] unpatriotic; you don’t question his patriotism,” [Chris LaCivita, the Republican strategist who helped craft the Swift Boat commercials] added. “Because I guaran-damn-tee you that, with that footage, you don’t have to say it.” Politico 3/19/2008

That's why you throw the good Rev under the bus. Obama had his chance in Philadelphia; he didn't do it.

Stick a fork in him; he's done.

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Does that mean Bush was correct to shelter Cheney, Brown and Gonzalez? I would've thought we'd want a President with the ability to set aside his/her relationships, for the good of all of us.


A fool?


Why soft pedal it. The guy is a flaming racist. Black brains different than white brains! This guy and the KKK are two sides of the same coin.

Obama needs to dump him, and explain why it did not happen 20 years ago.

Who the hell let you out of the dumpster?

I think this person should not be allowed such a blatant ad hominem remark./

Whiner!

That's the rub.
MJ says that Obama needs to utterly repudiate the Reverend. Easier said than done.

If Obama says "I repudiate that despicable man!!" People will say "why now?" "Why did you not repudiate him for 22 years ago?" Obama is in an impossible situation and he can't get out of it. READ MY LIPS: a 22 year relationship with Wright cannot be erased by one act of repudiation and MJ knows that and knew it all along. As I said, so now he says that we are fated to get McCain. How convenient!!

Personally I think Hillary can beat the pants off McCain but MJ does not even entertain that idea. I wonder why

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Right. There will be no end to this, and it has to stop now. Obama has already denounced Wright's statements many times, in very strong terms. But the complaints never end.

"He didn't say it with enough conviction."

"He didn't do it early enough."

"He hasn't done it often enough."

"He didn't swear out a double triple super repudiation."

"He didn't hold a repudiation-a-thon and donate the proceeds to the Society for the Repudiation of Crazy Black Preachers."

"He didn't travel back in time and repudiate himself while he was sitting in the pews."

"He didn't apologize for being black, and having old friends and acquaintances that hold views that piss off white people."

"He didn't repudiate all of his crazy uncles, and crazy cousins, and crazy barbers and crazy neighbors."

What's going on now is simple hysteria; a mindless witch hunt. And if we allow it win out, to spark a massive failure of nerve, and to overpower everything good that has happened in this campaign for fourteen months, we will deserve the chief smear Republicans level against Democrats: that we are cowards.

It is more than a witch hunt. It is an intentional effort by the TV news offices to convince everyone that all African Americans are like the worst parts of all African Americans. Therefore, Wright is just a window into Obama. We haven't seen any TV coverage of the idiot TV preacher who thinks Katrina was imposed on New Orleans by God in retaliationn for their gay parade, and who was solicited as a supporter by McCain, and who introduced McCain at a rally. Why, if Wright is a window into Obama, isn't Hagee, or whatever his name is, a window into McCain? The simple reason is that the TV news offices are dominated by Republicans and any Democrats they see who will continue to pave their path to $$$ with gold.

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Sort of. Actually, the Hagee thing did get a lot of play. There was an oft-repeated documentary about his group. The Katrina comment has been replayed a lot. Of course, given that Obama has run a pretty much spotless campaign, there is greater fascination with his "fall." Sad and so typical of America.

Think of Muskie who...cried.

Think of Tom Eagleton...who was in therapy.

And on and on.

Hagee will come back as long as there are Democrats willing to play dirty with it.

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Sort of. Actually, the Hagee thing did get a lot of play. There was an oft-repeated documentary about his group. The Katrina comment has been replayed a lot. Of course, given that Obama has run a pretty much spotless campaign, there is greater fascination with his "fall." Sad and so typical of America.

Think of Muskie who...cried.

Think of Tom Eagleton...who was in therapy.

And on and on.

Hagee will come back as long as there are Democrats willing to play dirty with it.

It's a mindless witchhunt all right. Sheesh the guy is an 80+ retired pastor who has no impact whatever on policy.

The press built him into a gigantic monster and the old guy is reacting in full rage mode. But he is not Barack Obama.

And I still won't vote for Hillary. No matter what.

Dump him, but carefully. He's a jerk and a narcissist.

MJ,

He's no patriot. If he was, he'd not be doing his part to keep the GOP in power for four more years.

Sentiment has nothing to do with it. Rev. Wright has a book coming out in the near future, and he is just doing what he has to do to sell it.

First, who are you to pronounce who is and who isn't a patriot.

Secondly, Wright was propelled upon center stage of the public discourse, and slandered by vacuous media pundits. He is completely capable of making mincemeat of those pundits and I hope he continues.

I have watched his speeches to the Detroit NAACP chapter fund raising dinner and his Press Club Q&A and think he was completely in the right to mock the, mostly, insipid questions he was asked.

I think the guy is brilliant and really like the fact that he refuses to observe conventional USA mythology.

You may be right, Chris, but we need to win over some moderates, independents and repubs to win this thing, and making the "chickens coming home to roost argument" about 9/11 is not going to fly with them. Not at all.

Maybe, but it is absolutely true that the 9-11 attacks were the chickens coming home to roost. It's just that it flies in the fact of the accepted mythology that the USA is a force of peace and freedom in the world, which polite folks aren't suppose to question if they wish to be elected.

What is acceptable thought in the liberal blogosphere does not translate to acceptable thought in mainstream America.

I'm stunned by the number of people who have no conception of this.

Maybe I'm dense, but I have no idea what that means. Acceptable thought?

Well, it may be a minority view, but I've never believed I must only have "acceptable" thoughts. What's the point of having an election? We can just crown the current administration because we all know that only true believing Republicans truly have acceptable thoughts.

MJ: He's no patriot. If he was, he'd not be doing his part to keep the GOP in power for four more years. I watched him at the press club. He sure enjoys himself. He's a fool.

MJ, while Wright has been attacking America's racism you have been attacking Israel's Zionism. (Both of you are correct.) Have you been giving any thought as to whose ox is being gored when you do this, or are you just telling the truth as you see it? You and Rev. Wright are cut from the same cloth in this regard. I guess your problem is that while Rev. Wright "sure enjoys himself" you don't. Is that it, my pretty? A little jealousy there, perhaps?

So Reverend Wright's "a fool." I thought, watching his press club session, that he was razor-sharp, right on the money. Another poster feels that he's better qualified than Obama. You don't provide any evidence of why he's a fool, so that ad hominem remark of yours looks kind of foolish, it seems to me.

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Don Bacon writes:

MJ, while Wright has been attacking America's racism you have been attacking Israel's Zionism. (Both of you are correct.)

I'm usually in disagreement with M.J., but I think you're wrong about him attacking Zionism.

M.J. can definitely speak for himself, so I'll just state that IMHO M.J. is a Zionist, in the sense that he recognizes the Jewish people as a unique national entity, with a unique and separate history, language and culture. Hence, they have the right to self-determination - in the form of a nation-state - in its ancient land of Israel, which is the ultimate goal of Zionism.

M.J.'s main gripe is that he likes his Zionism to be pure, noble, untarnished by the pain, blood, guts and sh*t which, regrettably but inevitably, are present in any process of creating and giving birth to a new living thing.

Indeed, it would have been awesome if Israel could be born through a clean process like, say, immaculate conception. Unfortunately, it's a Jewish, not Christian State, so this option was not on the menu.

iaf,

Hence, they have the right to self-determination - in the form of a nation-state - in its ancient land of Israel, which is the ultimate goal of Zionism.

If I may quibble. Zionism has met the goal of establshing a Jewish state in the historic homeland of the Jewish people. But the ultimate and as yet unfulfilled goal of Zionism remains the reintegration of the Jewish people in its native region with all the national dignity it deserves. This is where I presume that yourself, MJ and I are likely similar flavors of Zionist. You are both strongly encouraged to correct me if I overreach with my presumption.

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Bar Kafka writes:

If I may quibble ... the ultimate and as yet unfulfilled goal of Zionism remains the reintegration of the Jewish people in its native region with all the national dignity it deserves.

It depends on what you mean by "reintegration". If you apply the term to the Jewish population of Israel, which was re-assembled from multiple, often disparate diasporas, some continuously separated from each other for almost 2000 years, then I'm happy to report that this reintegration process is doing much better than expected.

Indeed, the chasms between the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews have greatly diminished, the intermarriages are close to 50 percent and rising, the adoption of the Hebrew language is widespread, the birth rates (in the secular population!) are very healthy for a Western society, etc. Of course, not everything is perfect, and there are areas which need work, but the overall picture is positive.

However, if by reintegration you meant the acceptance of Israel by its neighbors in the ME, I'm afraid it's far from happening and may not be achievable for several generations. This problem is regrettably not unique to Israel or the ME. Tensions and divisions across ethnic lines have been plaguing many parts of the world, incl. outbursts in Europe (former Czechoslovakia, former Yugoslavia, former Soviet Union, Belgium), all over Asia and Africa, and even in North America (Canada vs Quebec.)

Some have been resolved peacefully - usually ending in a "divorce", others have been smoldering with various degrees of intensity. It's a nasty, often depressing business, but in most cases there are no quick and easy fixes. Israel is no different.

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MJ IS a Zionist. He's said so many times.

The problem is that Zionist = right wing = neocon = Iraq War = Bush/Cheney = imperialism/colonialism on many, many liberal, left-leaning blogs. At least in the comments section.

In other words, it's a handy slur...and most who bandy it about have little to no understanding of what it's all about.

I like Don, and I think, given his last name, he should be cut some slack on this point, however.

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petermschwartz52 writes:

I like Don [Bacon], and I think, given his last name, he should be cut some slack on this point...

Well, I try to be a good Jew, especially around High Holidays. But, every once in while, when no one's looking, I sneak a crispy strip of ... the other white meat, or as my business partner likes to call it: Siberian chicken.

(Just kidding, Don. Your butt is safe. Really.)

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M.J.,

I believe Wright's 3-day media blitz, followed by today's repudiation of him by Obama, is not as foolish as it appears, and was in all likelihood a 2-step dance carefully orchestrated by Obama's campaign.

It's actually quite clever: they saw that the Wright issue was not going away and its effects were visible in the polls. So, the campaign sent the reverend out - to make a few more outrageous statements, thus giving Obama the perfect excuse to repudiate him, while claiming to the black community that Wright's "big mouth" left them no choice.

I'm sure Wright was all too happy to take the fall for Obama while appearing to go out fighting, and the issue is off the table for the Fall campaign. Not bad!

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Oops, sorry - I hastily wrote: "a 2-step dance carefully orchestrated by Obama's campaign".

The correct sentence should have read: "a 2-step dance carefully choreographed by Obama's campaign".

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Sure, iaf, this stuff is just great for Obama. Right, absolutely.

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SqueakyRat writes:

Sure, iaf, this stuff is just great for Obama.

That's not what I wrote, or implied. Like life itself, running for office is a bumpy road. How one deals with these bumps is instructive - for better or worse - of one's mettle, mental toughness and management skills. (The latter includes the ability to surround oneself with smart, capable individuals.)

As a relative rookie on the national stage, Obama has little to be judged on. Hence, for the rational among us who don't "fall in love" with a candidate, Obama's campaign has been thus far a key indicator of his potential as a future Commander in Chief. (Of course, as Dubya has shown, it's not a conclusive factor.)

I'm not sold on Obama - yet, but I am very impressed with the kind of organization he's been able to put together, in a short period of time. They've delivered the kind of strategy and funding prowess that has put them on an equal footing with the Clintons, and that certainly earns them my respect.

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Wright is not hurting Barack. The phony journalists and ignorant bigots are doing that.

Maybe someday this country will grow up and learn how to think.

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No, he's doing it too. He is part of the Gen-Me Boomers who see everything as black and white/ us v. them/ man v. woman/ red state v. blue state/ patriot v. traitor. And in the end all he cares about is selling a book (more me, me, me). He wants change in America? Yep, McCain is the poster boy for change. Wright doesn't want change because that would leave him with less material.

There is no question he has a right to say whatever the hell he wants. Whether he should is another matter.

The Fallacy of Black and White thinking is not peculiar to our "me generation" but as old as the hills. A congenital defect in the averages person's reasoning skills. Been around since the Ancient times and will remain around for the forseeable future

It's hard not to see that.

Also, the notion that it's Hillary or McCain's "turn" to be president shows their arrogance.

Then again, what public figure doesn't stampede people or sieze on controversy for self advancement? It's said that every politician is an opportunist.

I really expected Wright to carry at least a little water for Obama - to somehow smooth things over - but he's done nothing but hurt him with his last two star turns.

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Ross writes:

Wright is not hurting Barack. The phony journalists and ignorant bigots are doing that.

Well, OK, but you can't replace all the journalists or prevent the ignorant bigots from voting, so I'm afraid the only choice was to get Wright out of the way.

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Hard not to say he's hurting Obama when he implies that Obama's just a lying politician.

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You and your friends need to have a stiff drink and get over it, and yourselves. Obama will be the next President.

And personally, I wish Obama wasn't such a wishy-washy moderate and serial Israel-lobby panderer and that he DID share more of Wright's views. Nonetheless, he's the best thing going this year. But spare me the moist "most promising in a generation" rhetoric. He's a good guy and a decent, centrist Democrat, not the Second Coming. That realistic appraisal ought to be enough.

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Yep! This is about right!

The rest is bull! Save it!

I can't say how much I agree with you. 100%, at least.

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Well, sort of...

Part of what many people reject about Clinton style politics is the staged political creature that Bill seemed to be at times, and that Hillary is most certainly demonstrating to be now. If Obama dropped his pastor over statements made 5, 7, or 10 years BEFORE his declared candidacy because of "outrage" of his critics, he would be acting with the exact same political calculus that many love to hate about the Clintons.
Critics criticize. Around presidential campaigns the criticism is especially toxic, one sided and opportunistic (sickening really). In this case however, we should make NO MISTAKE. Obama is currently being TRIANGULATED. Anyone wondering were the money Hillary raised post Penn. is going? You bet, it's contributing to staged press events that are preying on Wrights ego, and producing new sound bites and new excuses to rehash old ones. Ok, that's the game currently. But Obama also has a problem (hence the triangulation part) with several INDUSTRIES that his grassroots fundraising and "new politics" rhetoric are threatening. Media outlets make 10's and 100's of millions off of the revenues streams that are tied to the current spin machines (not just mil-industrial, them, but ALL the other interests that are sucking money from the public teat, and sucking favors from indebted politicians). Look at the headlines man, msm is not stupid to ignore all things McCain, all things torture, all things tax cut, all things Iraq, all things incompetent, all things corrupt, THEY ARE FULLY VESTED IN IT).
As such, Obama needs to deliver on some of his new politics rhetoric. Perhaps he should distance from the Wright based noise machine, but I would prefer he didn't do the "monkey dance" just because the screechers are screeching. Perhaps Obama should increase his general election fundraising and then with a healthy war chest, make it clear that he would NOT exclude an independent run at the Whitehouse if the Dem. nomination is not available to him, run as an independent Democratic oriented candidate. If he is prepared to piss on BOTH parties, he may bring clarity (and break a leg of that "triangle") to ONE party. Just a thought.

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Yep! You got it, go after McCain forget Clinton.

The notion that Obama is "above" or "beyond" or "too pure" for political calculus is laughable and demonstrates the naiveté of s/he who entertains such delusions.

The Obama campaign desperately needs to do something spectacular and get the cameras off of Rev. Wright. As some political sage once said, "When you're explaining, you're losing." On the verge of the final primaries, and the urgency to "close the deal" in Denver, it's time for Obama to take a break from his compulsion to address every bullshit non-issue that his political opponents and the news industry will inevitably continue to throw at him.

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Yes.
But how to get it covered in the (gamed) echo chamber?

That's why campaign managers get the big bucks. But I will reiterate that it must be spectacular.

Very quickly because this deserves no more and no better: you're full of shit, M.J. From start to finish.

Wow. That's cogent and responsive.

Thanks! :)

Hi MJ,

I'm not sure if you follow Barnett Rubin's writing over at Informed Comment: Global Affairs. I read this piece this weekend and thought you'd enjoy it - been waiting for a post from you so I could post it in the comments.

http://icga.blogspot.com/2008/04/rubin-against-holocaust-denial-against.html

Obama refers to Wright as his former pastor. What more does it take to be considered dumped?

Its out of Barack's hands. This Wright story is being driven by the media, its grist for their mill, especially the 24/7 Cable gab fests; CNN, MSNBC, Fox.

After Obama's speech on race, Wolf Blitzer on CNN
addressed the speech by saying (paraphrase):

'OBama gives what many say is a great speech on race......but is it enough; coming up in our next segment, stay tuned.'

Blitzer was churning the story to fill air time.
I could almost imagine a director saying in Blitzer's ear phone: "Keep it going, keep it going."

I claimed early on that the Democratic candidate's
worst enemy won't be the Republican candidate but the media.

Hmm, Republicans, the media... I think I'm sensing a connection here.

Oh wait, that's right. It's the 'Liberal Media' right? I must have stopped thinking for a second there. Sorry guys.

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Is it too optimistic to think that an anti-Wright backlash will do the work for Obama?

Maybe. I'm not an Obama fan (I don't care for either candidate), but I think Wright's opportunism is beyond the pale.

I've seen similar sentiments from Hillary supporters.

Hopefully though, there won't need to be a backlash, because this won't be an issue.

I was a little surprised to hear about it on NPR. It has every appearance of manufactured outrage being force-fed to the public. I'm not liking that Wright appears to be enjoying it.

I'm going to deal with it by not reading, responding, or being interested in anything more that contains the name, "Wright"

(Unless it's Tom Wright.)

;)

Opportunism?

Come on, Wright wash pushed onto the national stage, and slandered, by the Clinton campaign and his presence there was perpetrated by media talking hairdos.

Wright as an absolute right to say what he wishes and to derisively dismiss the intellectual light weights, both in the media and various campaigns, who have derided and dismissed him as a crank.

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All Things Considered ran a very interesting exchange yesterday (April 28) between Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri (a Clinton supporter) and Rep. David Price of North Carolina (a Wright supporter). Cleaver defended Wright's record (not necessarily his recent pronouncements) in fairly strong terms; Price was critical of Wright. Not what one would expect, unless you get into the head-spinning exercise of figuring out how and why defending Wright's record is actually a good Clinton move and attacking Wright a good Obama move, etc., etc. You could go there, but it involves too many I-know-that-you-know-that-I-know-that-you-know's for me to wrap my brain around.

Worth a listen. IMHO.

Caveat: I heard it late last night, as sleep was finally taking hold. I'm pretty sure I remember what I heard, but I haven't listened to it again today.

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pretty much everyone you know supports Obama? MJ, you've got to get out more!

as I said in a post on another article: the reason this is happening is that your candidate is pretty much a blank slate. and now that people like Wright have crawled out from under their rocks, Americans are "filling in the blanks" and not liking what they see.

as you know, Clinton and Obama are almost identical on the issues. so the only point of differentiation is their "character." I know you TPMers think Hillary is a nasty, scheming liar. I have no problem with that; I think she'd be a kick-ass president. the only thing we know about Obama's "character" is that he's hung out with some shady people in the past.

the fact is Obama won't go further to dissociate himself with Wright because he doesn't want to alienate his base, which is black people and guilt-ridden white libs like you. sorry, but it's true.

"pretty much a blank slate"

You're just parroting the media narrative of the moment with that crap. They guy has written two books about his life and his viewpoint. His record in the Illinois Senate and U.S. Senate are public record, what the hell else do you want?
I'm so sick of this idea that "we just don't this guy"....We are so used to lying/scheming/triangulating politicians that when Obama says Wright has a distorted view and that his comments were offensive, many just assume he is lying and trying to cover his ass....I think the more we hear from Wright, the more it becomes clear that he really doesn't speak for Obama, or his viewpoint.

Those of you who think Obama is not a lying scheming politician: that he is sui generis in our time, are in an unintended way insulting the intelligence of Obama.

In that list I would add those who have hidden agendas such as getting McCain elected.

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"your candidate (Obama) is pretty much a blank slate"

That is just plain false. Barack, more than any other candidate, has given us enough detailed writings and statements, and genuine introspections, to let us see how he thinks and what he believes.

But maybe you're worried about what he might DO if president, because you think he can't be trusted to enact his stated beliefs and philosophies. Well, why mistrust Barack more than you mistrust Clinton or McCain? What has he done to earn more than a normal politician's share of distrust?

I feel the "guilt-ridden white libs" bit makes this comment trollworthy.

I'm white, my family moved here over fifty years after slavery had been abolished. Aside from the built-in advantage I have of being white in this country (which I don't feel guilty for - I don't see it as evil, I just see the problem as a matter of bringing less advantaged groups up to the same starting level) I have no real connection to any racial issues.

I just support the guy because I don't see him as quite a polarizing figure as Clinton, and because of the relatively dignified way with which he approaches campaigning (and, one would hope, the presidency).

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the fact is Obama won't go further to dissociate himself with Wright because he doesn't want to alienate his base, which is black people and guilt-ridden white libs like you.

Yet another trolling armchair psychoanalyst. And the use of the epithet "libs" puts gretz firmly in the Republican wing of the Democratic Party, the same wing that's sold our country straight down the river over the last thirty years.

MJR, pray tell which part of the following is over the top and the words of 'a fool':

Reconciliation does not mean that blacks become whites or whites become blacks and Hispanics become Asian or that Asians become Europeans.

Reconciliation means we embrace our individual rich histories, all of them. We retain who we are as persons of different cultures, while acknowledging that those of other cultures are not superior or inferior to us. They are just different from us.

We root out any teaching of superiority, inferiority, hatred, or prejudice.

And we recognize for the first time in modern history in the West that the other who stands before us with a different color of skin, a different texture of hair, different music, different preaching styles, and different dance moves, that other is one of God's children just as we are, no better, no worse, prone to error and in need of forgiveness, just as we are.

Only then will liberation, transformation, and reconciliation become realities and cease being ever elusive ideals.

Link of excerpt above.

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Maybe we should all take the Myers-Briggs test, and reflect on the implications, at least as a new way to frame this conversation. Obama is probably an INT- type, by far the least common, and one which does not rush in to fight bombast with bombast. It is a reflective, but by no means ineffective, profile and one which is badly needed in the US nowadays. Let's stand back and let the man show us how different he is from his FORMER pastor.

Hear, hear.

@rosenberg

Pretty much everyone I know supports Obama

You've worked in Washington pretty much all your adult life and you can - repeatedly - say that? What a bumpkin you are.

And not one of us believes that Barack Obama shares any of his views.

A pathetic, head-in-the-sand bumpkin.

MJ: "And not one of us believes that Barack Obama shares any of his views."

OTY: "A pathetic, head-in-the-sand bumpkin."

OTY - I'll have to say your last statement better defines you, for to believe Obama shares the views of his pastor to me implies you think he is somehow running for the presidency out of malice. Do you think a Harvard Law graduate and US senator believes the US government created AIDS? Do you think he hates America? Do you think he wants to destroy it?

If that was true (which it certainly is not - this kind of crap is following the Secret Muslim™ line of "thinking"), could he really do any worse than the Bush junta has? His best hope for American failure would be to let the most polarizing figure of the Democratic party easily sweep up her "inevitable" nomination and lose hilariously to McCain.

Do you think a Harvard Law graduate and US senator believes the US government created AIDS? Do you think he hates America? Do you think he wants to destroy it?

I wish I had as much faith as you do in the guarantees of worth supposedly accompanying those degrees and titles. In fact, you're not consistant. If you were you'd have no trouble praising Bush and his friends.

I can't say exactly how Obama views his pastor. Even if I take him at face value - as true to what he says today (see the Guardian article I linked below) - I would still have trouble with his candidacy for reasons I've stated elsewhere on this thread.

I just support the guy because I don't see him as quite a polarizing figure as Clinton

Clearly, that's no longer true. Sorry. Reality intrudes as it usually does. Of the 3 candidates it's Clinton who I favor...and I have to hold my nose to do that. I would have liked to see Edwards vs. Huckabee. I would have been happy with either (except for the former's "do"). Strange, but that's how it is.

Whose photo are you posting? Reminds me of someone I knew a half-century ago.

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I believe Dr Zaius has nailed it.

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I'm really torn on this. Wright has no obligation to change or suppress his own views, right or wrong. He may be frustrating us Obama supporters but that's our problem, not his. And even if Wright repudiated his previously stated controversial views, who would believe him? It would be dismissed by the media as political pandering to help Obama, and Wright would lose his own credibility with his supporters. It would help no one.

And Obama can do no more than to include Wright as ONE PERSON among many that he LISTENS to in order to inform himself about the various issues that we face. Distancing himself from Wright as a person is meaningless except to clarify what Barack Obama believes and what his political positions are. The most he can do is continue to talk about the value of listening to all points of view in the process of developing one's own views, make it clear that he has his own views, and Wright's are no more important to him than all the other people he has heard from across the country. Hopefully voters will understand that we all have views that we would disagree with each other about, and none of us are responsible for someone else's ideas.

It's up to voters to distinguish between Obama's beliefs and Wright's, and if enough voters cannot make that distinction, then we again get what we deserve, as a country. We may wish that so many voters, due to their own fears and bigotry, weren't easily manipulated by the media, but that's a reality we have to face.

If White voters desert Obama because of what his pastor preaches in church, to me that's just a rationalization for their latent racism, ie. "if you seem White enough we'll consider voting for you, but if you show any signs of actually being Black, forget it". It's the "is he Black enough, or too Black" issue that was raised early on. The early verdict was that he was "just right", but now it seems like it's "just Wright". The verdict now is, "he's too Black". I suppose that could change again, but time is running out.

What I value in Barack Obama is his wisdom, honesty, and authenticity. If he has to give that up to win the nomination or election, we lose either way. So let Wright be Wright, and let Obama be Obama, and let the majority of voters have what they want. I've been in the minority of voters for over 40 years, even when I voted for Bill Clinton (who thanks to Perot never won a majority of votes, just a plurality to win the electoral college). Each election I do what I can to change that to a majority, but if it doesn't happen, life goes on. Until this election, I've voted for who I thought was the lesser of the evils, but not this time. Now that I've seen the alternative offered by Obama, I've decided that less evil isn't different enough from more. So if it ends up being McCain-Clinton, I'll just vote down ticket and let each presidential candidate's supporters decide which of the evils they prefer.

If enough Americans cannot see what Obama is offering and value it, then we lose out again.
I will continue to support Obama, will never vote for Clinton or McCain, and I'm willing to live with the consequences, as will my fellow citizens.

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"If White voters desert Obama because of what his pastor preaches in church, to me that's just a rationalization for their latent racism."

I agree. It is astounding to me that the Catholic church and its five thousand child-raping priests get a free pass, while Wright, who does nothing worse than deliver sermons that are 99% true, is slandered and despised and considered a reason to shoot down a presidential candidate. It this isn't racism, what is it?

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Cynical exploitation ftw.

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We don't care about Wright's views on racism, the Middle East or Farrakhan. He's just another media preacher. And not one of us believes that Barack Obama shares any of his views.
We have no f-ing clue about Obama's real views. However, you, M.J, Carter and most tpmcafeers share most of Wright's views including but not limited to ME.

How do we know Wright's views, but not Obama's? Both make speeches (or sermons, if you will), Obama has written two books. We can really only know either of them to the extent that we come in contact with their work, and whom we choose to take at face value reveals more about us than them.

That is why we need Obama to divest himself of this guy. Not doing so, allowing this buffoon to hurt the most promising campaign of a generation, would demonstrate a weakness we cannot have in a President

Funny, I feel almost exactly the opposite. I'm sick of letting the right define us and who we're allowed to associate with. I would look upon Obama denouncing and rejecting (etc, etc) a long-time friend and mentor under the bus for political expedience as a sign of weakness. If McCain wants to get into the people he associates with (Keating, Hagee, etc etc) then let's take it to 'em.

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0chiggins just proved my point that most people here and I suspect Obama himself have no problems with Wright's views

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Most of Wright's views in the God Damn America sermon indicate a level of intelligence and sensitivity and knowledge of history far above those of the vast majority of Americans.

Maybe that's why most Americans prefer to call Wright a crazy racist -- we don't want to hear the truth about our country, especially from an uppity colored guy.

If we have no interest in the true USA, how can we call ourselves patriots, and how can we be good world citizens?

Well, you share none of Obama's views, Wright's views, or our views, so what are you doing here?