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The Swiftboating Begins

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Clinton did not make a dent in Obama's lead by her win in Pennsylvania but what has happened is that the republican attack machine has begun the swiftboating in the wake of her negative attacks rightly decried by the New York Times.

It is bootless to speculate about the self-destructive tactics of the Clinton camp. What matters is going on the offense against the author of the typically bizarre, distracting, and hideous rightwing attacks: John McCain.

It ought to be beneath senator McCain to have his side label Obama as a terrible person because he has failed to shun a fellow who did wrong 40 years or is not a patriot because he neglected to wear a flag on lapel, or declined to disavow a Korean War vet and pastor because he spoke too harshly one Sunday. McCain went to Vietnam to re-open peaceful relations, so he knows the place of forgiveness. He is a man of military honor and knows how to respect a friend and a foe. Hence, it ought to be beneath McCain to tolerate attacks against Obama that closely resemble the despicable charges bush launched against McCain in South Carolina in 2000. It should be the case that mccain doesn't just pretend to stop these attacks, but actually does so. Aside from his laissez-faire positions on iraq and the economy, McCain's primary disqualification for the oval office is that he knows these vile, crazy attacks are wrong for America but he won't stop them.


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Yes. I think Obama should respond strongly to McCain himself.

Apart from being a correct tactic in itself it would give him a chance to rebut Hillary's implied charge that he's not enough of a fighter
(like her).

Clearly, Obama must wear kid gloves responding to HRC. This is still a sufficiently racist society so that whites simply can't accept hearing a black male criticize a white female,almost no matter the provocation. It's a lose-lose. Be retrained and be considere a wimp. Or respond and be a black bully.


So this North Carolina foul gives him a free penalty shot.

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Obama does not equal McGovern...

But McCain equals Bob Dole. Old...crabby...senile...crazy...etc.

For my money, McCain's more rightwing, more erratic, less bipartisan, and more unbalanced than Dole. Dole was funnier, too.

YOU FORGOT TO MENTION THAT MCCAIN HAS..

more beer than all of them combined. Frankly that is all that counts for us.

Sincerely
Bitter Lunchbucket Goobers Union

It is legitimate to judge McCain's words against his actions. It is honorable for him to make them match, and dishonor in his case, especially, is a legitimate issue.

If he does not aggressively fight to make sure his own party matches his rhetoric on how he wants to run this campaign, I believe we ought to assume that he condones this kind of thing, and make that a campaign issue.

I think people are more likely to reject the negatives, especially if the GOP standard-bearer has made the high road a campaign issue himself. They've certainly got a lot to answer for already, and it should not be difficult to run against the hypocricy redux.

It seems we are doing terrible damage to our country by labeling everything that does not fit rigid standards of political correctness unpatriotic. What is patriotism in the U.S. supposed to mean? Shouldn't it mean celebrating our diversity, ethnic, religious, political, and the opportunity of diverse people to find a life here? Shouldn't it be freedom to speak our minds? Shouldn't we have some freedom of assembly? Shouldn't we have the right to criticize the country and be proud of that right? Shouldn't we be celebrating the ability to draw from diverse sources for our ideas? Shouldn't it be freedom from small-minded measures of our patriotism?

Shouldn't anyone born in the United States be able to have a dream of being President one day, based on his abilities and not denied because of race or the visceral discomfort of others based on prejudices and stereotypes?

Shouldn't we be able to be proud of ourselves because we can see past our own comfort zone?

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Actually McCain has publicly called for the ads to be stopped, but facts and honesty are not apparently your strong suit. "...he has failed to shun a fellow who did wrong 40 years ago..." Ayers didn't "do wrong" he set off bombs and killed innocent people, he stated recently that he wish he had "done more." He's a terrorist who got off because he was illegally wiretapped, not because he was innocent. "...failed to disavow a Korean War vet and pastor because he spoke too harshly one Sunday..." Rev. Wright is a racist, pure and simple. He preaches hatred from the pulpit, to the pews that Obama sat in for 20 years. If what these guys did isn't "that bad" and Obama truly has no reason to denounce or disassociate from them, you would be honest about who they really are, and not down play their reputations to make your argument.

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Ayers didn't "do wrong" he set off bombs and killed innocent people...

Please provide your source on the claim that any of Ayers' bombs killed anyone.


SFC Wallace may not to return to this thread, but SFC, as a supporter and believer in George Dubya Bush: (1)Has a keen nose for terrorists, (2) does not condone hatred or racism, (3) believes in the truth and knows that any mistruths over recent years are due to bad intelligence or liberals, (4) like George Dubya believes in protection of innocent life and preemptive war, (5) supports the war in Iraq, (6) believes America's job in the world is to 'get bad guys', (7) after getting one bad guy, like Saddam, getting any others that show up, (8) supports John McCain as the best man to take to conclusion the roadmap to peace and total victory in the upcoming years 7,8,9 and 10 of the Iraqi front of the GWOT.

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Oh, I'm sorry, I did make an error. Only 3 members of his organization died in the bombings. The innocents died during the bank robberies. By all means, make him the campaign chair!

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You know, that's not even clever snark.

I'm tired of the Rev. Wright is a guaranteed racist when the same people seem to dismiss Hagee's comments about New Orleans and Catholics. I think Father Pfleger said it best when Faux News brought up Rev Wright to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0wvQMqSzTM

Publicly disavowing this sort of hate speech in a monotone when the guy can get VERY angry sort of begs the question. I never heard him say outright, STOP THIS CRAP!!!! Besides this is only one issue where McCain has sold his soul to the wingnuts. His recent vote against equal pay for women shows exactly where he stands on equality. Amazing that he thinks he can suck it up to folks like the rabid pastor and then dis women, many of whom are single and struggling to support their family. He just does not get it. Further, the guy is hardly a walking illustration of family values and I feel folks who live in that sort of a glass house should be a bit more careful of what they allow to be done in their name. A good strong "stop it right now" with even a few of his famous expletives thrown in would convince me he is not complicit in this horror of a hit job.

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Then stop talking about McCain's "military honor" until he starts exhibiting it. But hey, let him keep on exposing himself as just another Republican smearmeister.

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Actually, McCain has denounced the ads in North Carolina. I think it is more illustrative to point out that these advertisers are the same kind of scum who questioned the commitment to national security of a triple amputee veteran in Georgia. I think you expose the swiftboaters and question their service to America (just like I wish Obama had retorted to Stephanopoulos, "the question is, does Stephanopoulos love America as much as Reverend Wright, who volunteered for the Army and knows what real sniper fire is?"). I would wager that the advertising group behind this ad (and the candidates it supports) don't have any military service.

I question the authenticity McCain's "denouncement". If he wanted them stopped, he could do it easily. But in fact, it seems he's trying to have it both ways. Putting up a moral front, while allowing the smear campaign to go on gets the job done without getting his hands dirty.

Maverick, my ass.

How could McCain stop them, exactly? I kind of agree that on a cui bono front, this kind of thing is about exactly perfect for McCain - he gets to look principled for condemning the ads, while the ads run anyway - but I'm not sure exactly what steps he can take besides condemning it to stop the North Carolina GOP from running the ads.

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The nominee is traditionally the head of his party nationally. (The DNC or RNC chief is only the head when the party is out of power and there is not a presidential campaign going on.) This isn't being done by some anonymous swiftboater, this is being done by the North Carolina state GOP. In addition, many of the leadership of that party are members of McCain's campaign or major donors. Some of the things he could do other than than "condemning" are:

Tell the NC GOP to drop them or risk his displeasure if he becomes president.

Threaten to fire those NC GOP members from his campaign if they won't follow orders.

Threaten not to hold joint fundraisers with the people responsible.

The fact that he's not doing any of these things tells you that he wants the campaign to take the low road while appearing to keep his hands clean.

Also, SFCWallace: What racism are we talking about here? "U.S.KKK. of A" is a statement about racism, not a racist statement. "Garlic noses" is the only truly racist statement that's come to the press. (And it's the only one that even comes close after the MSM's combed through TWENTY YEARS of often fiery sermons.)

Or should we go after Hagee and Parsley for their ACTUALLY DISCRIMINATORY comments about Catholics, Jews, and Muslims?

Or should we go after Hagee and Parsley for their ACTUALLY DISCRIMINATORY comments about Catholics, Jews, and Muslims?
Not to mention their revolting homophobia.
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Apples and oranges. John Mc Cain didn't attend those guys' churches, choose them to marry him or list them as one of the biggest influances in his life.

The people who are choosing to run those ads are all part of McSame's NC campaign apparatus.

If he can't, or won't, tell them to stop, it's a fair assumption that he's in agreement with them.

Exactly. This isn't some 527. This is a branch of the GOP, the party that McCain is considered in charge of. He could stop this in a second of he wanted to stop it.

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How can he stand up to terrorists if he can't stop the North Carolina GOP?

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Every day I like the Vietnamese who tortured McCain just a little bit more. Maybe they could tell what a nasty little piece of work he is.

expatjourno2 needs to be banned.

Whoa, hey, that was way out of line.

This is disgusting.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Greed trumps honor...

In the 2000 Republican primary, St. McSame learned just how successful a full frontal Rovian attack can be.

Obviously, his greed for the power of the POTUS has surpassed any honor he may have had.

I think it is called the Willie Hortonization of Obama

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NO agreement on public financing between McCain and Obama unless McCain shuts down these dirty underground attacks now. This is an early pre-GE test. Thus far, McCain is failing, so Obama should use every financial advantage he has to clobber McCain in the general.

Hopefully, the press will play it as McCain can't control (or willfully contributes to) negative ads rather than Obama backing out of previous "agreement."

IT IS SCARY TO SEE HOW YOU ARE ON TO ME

So if I back off on the "Vegas massage parlor" YouTube campaign and withdraw the DNA "who's your daddy" DNA tests Maury Povich forwarded to me you'll agree to what ever that campaign financing thing is your were jabbering about?

Deal. Now can I get back to the edit room and finish the Rev Wright loop?

Ciao
J. McCain

Yeah, but what happens then when a dem 527 does something equally nasty (you know someone will). Will Obama or Hillary be able to stop them?

Be careful what you wish for.

Ayers was a member of a radical group; some members of this radical group planted bombs; in one of those incidents a janitor and a security guard were killed (it's worth noting they didn't intend to kill people, just destroy buildings, but I think it's pretty reprehensible all the same). The other people who were killed were MEMBERS OF THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND while they attempted to make a bomb (I think we can say those people deserved what they got). It's worth noting that the vast majority of casualties via the weather underground were weather underground members.

The reason Ayers has never been prosecuted/convicted is because no one has found any evidence he was involved in the bombings. The allegations Ayers is a murderer are akin to the allegations that every Black Panther member is responsible for the black-on-white Zebra murders in San Francisco around the same time.

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My point (above) exactly. Thank you.

It is bootless to speculate about the self-destructive tactics of the Clinton camp.

Actually, I think Hillary is like an abused child who grows up and becomes an adult abuser. She has simply adopted the strategy, tactics and shamelessness of those who slimed her and Bill for so many years.

McCain's primary disqualification for the oval office is that he knows these vile, crazy attacks are wrong for America but he won't stop them.

Absolutely right. If McCain called these people up and gave them one of his famous, red-faced, four-letter word tirades, they would stop. He's trying to have it both ways, the scumbag.

Or maybe, just maybe, Senator Obama can do some fighting of his own? Why does he need McCain to fight his battles? This is embarrassing.

He doesn't. This on McCain. It's a test of his honesty and integrity -- a test of whether he means what he says or whether he's a hypocrite all too happy to have his cake and eat it too by getting shit thrown at Obama and being able to seem above the fray by decrying it.

I support Obama, but you have to answer senile McCain's smears in kind. If he (and his surrogates) don't do that, I don't want him as the nominee.

Doesn't it point up McCain's inherent weakness and ineffectiveness? If he can't get the NC GOP to stop running an ad, how the heck would he get anything done as President?

Come on, man. Obama has to depend on >>McCain

to defend him from the ads. Fight back, Senator! You look like a wimp waiting for the old man to denounce the ads. Do it yourself!

I think it does to people who are capable of higher level thought, but to people who don't really follow politics, maybe not so much.

For all of James Carville's faults, when he ran the Clinton campaign in 1992, he made a determined effort to counter the types of smears that helped sink the Mondale and Dukakis campaigns by employing a war room with a rapid response team.

I don't want Democrats to return of the bad old days of trying to be above the fray.

Unilateral disarmament does not work.

It seems that Obama is running against two people who are in early stage Alzheimers; McCain is ineffective within his own party or doesn't remember denouncing "guilt by association" campaigning, and Hillary, by her own husband's account, gets so tired at 11 PM that she makes up wild stories, and her memory is so bad that she forgets, or never noticed, the pardoning of convicted terrorists not so long ago.

Sorry, I know what you wrote is tongue in cheek, but I'm going to say this anyway: what McCain and Hillary are doing has nothing to do with forgetfulness or early stage Alzheimers -- it's called LYING.

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I'm not convinced of McCain's heroism, personally. He got his ass shot down in Vietnam, then survived a long period of VERY uncomfortable captivity. Hey, cockroaches are survivors, too. He is reputed to have turned down an offer of release (due to his father being an admiral), which pretty much testifies that he's always been crazy -- I mean, come on, you stay at the Hanoi Hilton to prove a point? What point? So, someone please explain to me why all commentary upon or critique of McCain has to be grounded in the notion that he's a hero?

I disagree with virtually all of McCain's policies, but the John McCain of 2004 was a man with principles. But the John McCain who is campaigning in 2008 bears no resemblance to that man. He has sucked up to President Bush, courted the religious right and has engaged in the same kind of political tactics that he so despised when they were being practiced against him.
The war hero is now nothing more than just another desperate politician willing to do anything to become president.

Good Lord, Josh. This is NOT telling it like it is.

"...declined to disavow a Korean War vet and pastor because he spoke too harshly one Sunday."

Talk about glossing things over. If you think the good pastor only spoke harshly on one lone Sunday then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Clinton started all of this and McCain has been consistently denouncing the ads. I can understand wanting to pin this on McCain, but even if the Repugs stop you know that Hillary's going to continue.

Perhaps it's time for Senator Obama to step up and defend himself, to show some backbone and fight back, instead of letting the media whine on his behalf. Ya think?

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Negative ads are all you're going to see for the Republicans.
They've ruined the economy and looted the treasury - what can they possibly run that's positive? That they managed to hang a CIA trained and installed dictator that reneged on a quid pro quo oil deal?

I would be happy if Obama ran only one add for the entire campaign....a clip of McSame saying he'd be happy to stay in Iraq for 100 years....followed by him singing bomb bomb bomb - bomb bomb Iran....

I don't know about anyone else but those two clips makes me absolutely giddy. I never get tired of watching them.

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This will be known as the Good GOP, Bad GOP election.

"I strongly denounce My Fellow GOP Party officials for calling Barack Obama a Big Wussy"

- John McCain - various times summer 2008.

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First, these attacks would take place regardless of the reprehensible (and I might add pointless) actions of the Clinton camp.

But my question is, why do we decry these easily anticipated smears instead of fighting back?

I'm always amazed at how Democrats seem incapable of understanding that if someone hits you, you hit them back twice and harder, you don't go telling the teacher the bully hit you looking for protection that won't come. Despite the many times we have been through this the past 40 years, instead of realizing we're in a fight, we get people bemoaning the low road tactics, but no counterattack. It boggles my mind.

I am drunk on the Obama Koolaid, but I really don't want a bunch of Dems whining about how unfair their opponents' treat them. Every time they trot this BS out, flood the airwaves with examples of McCain's corruption, psychotic warmongering, bad temper, encroaching senility, and general cluelessness.

Not this time, please. Rub their faces in the fact they don't know how to run a country, seeing as how they've run this one into the ground. Put the righwing smear peddlers on the defense for once.

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Bravo! A perfect response to he Republican character assasination machine! In only makes sense to do precisely as you recommend, but will they?

Naaaaaaah!

And more's the pity!

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Sean Hannity had on a guy who worked on the Willie Horton ad in 1988, and this fellow has done a similar ad re Obama. It has to do with gang violence in Chicago and some vote in the Illinois legislature to apply the death penalty to gang violence. Obama voted against it, and the ad is going after him for that. It's some PAC putting it together.

More of the same.

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I agree with several commenters: it would be very bad, and self-defeating, to appeal to McCain to stop the unfair attacks. It would look like whining and plays into an old Republican tactic: portray Democrats as a bunch of unmanly sissies.

In any case, McCain would respond the way that he has already been responding: he will pretend that those attacks aren't from him, will object to them, but not too strongly, and the attacks will go on, while both sides agree that he is much too honorable to engage in such low tactics.

Certainly Democrats can point out that the tactics resemble those used against McCain by Bush, that they have no validity, and they can point out that McCain sucked up to Bush despite all of the crap they threw at him (cue the embarrassing pictures of the embrace).

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There are effective and ineffective ways to do this, and I think the DNC has worked out a pretty effective way of putting it all on McCain. They're not saying "oh, those ads are mean, please stop." They're saying "McCain says those ads are mean and he disapproves of them, but he's too weak to stop them."

Republicans demand that Democrats "denounce" things all the time without looking weak. The important thing is not to talk about what's wrong with the sleazy ad, that just wastes your time countering BS and repeating it in the process. Rather, you have to behave as if everyone already knows the attack is wrong, and make it about the Republicans who are doing it or hypocritically failing to stop it.

"Certainly Democrats can point out that the tactics resemble those used against McCain by Bush, that they have no validity, and they can point out that McCain sucked up to Bush despite all of the crap they threw at him (cue the embarrassing pictures of the embrace)."

Somber voiceover: "John McCain acted honorably as a Viet Nam POW. John McCain acted honorably when he helped pass campaign finance reform. Now John McCain wants to cut even more taxes for the wealthiest Americans, a position John McCain once honorably opposed. Now John McCain refuses to stop gutter attacks against Barack Obama, even though he honorably denounced such attacks when he was the victim of them, and now supports the very people who dragged his name into the gutter. John McCain claims honor is one of the highest virtues in a presidential candidate. Isn't it time John McCain started acting like honor matters again?"

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If North Carolina Republicans don't think enough of John McCain's judgement or leadership to follow his instruction to cease and desist, just should anyone else?

This is still a sufficiently racist society so that whites simply can't accept hearing a black male criticize a white female,almost no matter the provocation. It's a lose-lose. Be retrained and be considere a wimp. Or respond and be a black bully.

This is pretty funny. Watch this video of Jesse Jackson Jr. criticizing Hillary with a totally bogus tale of how she was not concerned with Hurricane Katrina victims and that African American voters in South Carolina should take note: http://youtube.com/watch?v=DfG-SxYCusQ&feature=related

This blatantly racist appeal has been ignored by the MSM and the left blogosphere to this day. They were too busy straining to hear dog whistles to notice the elephant in the room.

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It's lucky for Obama the MSM ignored it otherwise it would have hurt him.

I did not say that Blacks never criticise white women. I said that if they do it results in whites becoming an order of magnitude more annoyed than if it were a male who'd been criticized.

You can decide for yourself how you would have reacted to Jackson if he had levelled the same charge against ,say, John Edwards. If you happen to be a white male and say you'd have reacted the same , I'll take your word it.

But think you're an exception..

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Reed,
where to begin? for starters, the charge that McCain fathered a black child was just plain false. however, the comments by Jeremiah Wright (a guy Barack calls uncle) were not throwaways from one Sunday when the old guy was hitting the sauce. Accusing whites of being the cause of HIV is a little more than "harshly speaking". Harshly speaking? How much koolaid you been drinking dude?

And dismissing Ayers actions of 40 years ago as no big deal. Hmm? Should we tell Elie Weisel to STFU because the holocaust happened 63 years ago?

You need to work on your arguments. Pretty weak stuff.

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And dismissing Ayers actions of 40 years ago as no big deal. Hmm? Should we tell Elie Weisel to STFU because the holocaust happened 63 years ago?

No.We have no reason to tell Elie Weisel to STFU.

As for Ayers , if he had collaborated in killing 6 million jews 63 years ago we should not dismiss that.Of course he didn't . In fact he didn't kill anyone. He possessed the evil intention of wanting to kill people , and committed the evil act of incompetently attempting to do so.But
contrary to the implication of Hillary's statement "people died" he never actually killed anyone.

Larry, you must have thought long and hard in the CIA about the degrees of evil and if you weren't in campaigning mode I'm sure you would have a thoughtful comment.

If we can agree that Ayers was not remotely as evil not just as Hitler, but even as such allies of convenience as the Shah of Iran, we can consider the actually relevant question of whether it's a big deal , or even in any way wrong for Obama to associate with him .

And in particular when most of that association was in the form of serving as a "paid" ($6000/year until he began serving for free) director on the board of a charitable organization along with a Vice President of UBS, an executive of BP, several ceos, a department head from DePaul and a program director from Northern Illinois University.

What's your thought on that?


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C'mon, tell me you're not really Larry Johnson? I wouldn't expect an Ayers/Holocaust comparison coming out of the mouth of the real Larry Johnson.
Especially when you end your comment with "pretty weak stuff". Indeed.

Seriously, Larry, Ayers was a member of a radical group 40 yrs ago. The group did some bad things, and 2 innocent people were killed (IIRC). Ayers himself could not be linked to the killings, so he was not charged. The group did target symbolic buildings, and did not appear to try to kill people.

His "we didn't do/bomb enough" quote is also very understandable, IF you're willing to try. My analysis is that, like most radicals, he wanted to change the world, or at least America. Looking around at the mess we're in right now, it wouldn't be a stretch to think we haven't learned many lessons from the 60's. In several areas we've actually regressed compared to the 60's. Ayers might believe that if they'd made a bigger impact or attracted more attention to their issues, things might have turned out differently.

But, as you well know, analysis requires an impartial or neutral point of view, or the ability to suspend biases during the analysis. It doesn't seem like you're being, or trying to be, neutral.

Too bad, I really do value your opinion and your analysis on a myriad of other topics.

It's really disgusting that you would try to link the GOP use of the Jeremiah Wright tapes to Hillary. If you want to blame anyone, blame the GOP, and blame Obama for tying himself to Wright in the first place. And get used to the swiftboat tactics from the GOP. Obama has given them plenty of ammunition, and they are going to have a field day. And it was always going to be that way, even if Hillary had declared Obama a saint.

And while we're at it, your post demonstrates how pissed you are that Hillary won Pennsylvania.

It's really disgusting that you would try to link the GOP use of the Jeremiah Wright tapes to Hillary. If you want to blame anyone, blame the GOP, and blame Obama for tying himself to Wright in the first place. And get used to the swiftboat tactics from the GOP. Obama has given them plenty of ammunition, and they are going to have a field day. And it was always going to be that way, even if Hillary had declared Obama a saint.

And while we're at it, your post demonstrates how pissed you are that Hillary won Pennsylvania. Good!

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What bothers many Democrats is that Clinton is using the excuse of "well, the GOP will do this anyway if Obama wins the nomination" to basically behave and campaign like a Republican. At least, until the *real* Republicans can take over after the convention.

Neither side's hands are *completely* clean, but at least Obama is taking quite a few shots at McCain. Clinton seems to think that Obama is a better target.

Kinda reminds me of the infighting between the anti-Roman groups in Life of Brian. Except that was just a funny movie. This is the leadup to a presidential election.

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