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Forget about Iraq. What about China?

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First of all, many thanks to TPMCafe and to all the contributors here for hosting an interesting and important discussion. And thanks, of course, to the incomparable Matt Yglesias for penning a timely and much-needed book. It's refreshing to hear someone admit that it's not "bold new ideas" that are needed, just a reinvigoration of old ideas that have worked remarkably well over six decades.

I agree with much of Matt's analysis about Iraq. The war has been an unparalleled disaster and a forseeable waste of precious U.S. blood and treasure, all for very little gain. Elsewhere in the region, foolish policies have sent U.S. prestige plummeting and made al Qaeda's recruiting quotas a heck of a lot easier to fill.

As bad as it has been, though, it's comforting that the Bush administration hasn't abandoned liberal internationalism across the board.

Take, for example, former Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick's masterful 2005 speech (pdf) to the National Committee on U.S.-China Relations. Now the president of the World Bank, Zoellick had this to say about China's rise:


Under Deng Xiaoping, as Mr. Zheng explains, China's leaders reversed course and decided "to embrace globalization rather than detach themselves from it."

Seven U.S. presidents of both parties recognized this strategic shift and worked to integrate China as a full member of the international system. Since 1978, the United States has also encouraged China's economic development through market reforms.

Our policy has succeeded remarkably well: the dragon emerged and joined the world. Today, from the United Nations to the World Trade Organization, from agreements on ozone depletion to pacts on nuclear weapons, China is a player at the table.


Zoellick went on to challenge China to become a "responsible stakeholder" in the international system (a formulation that is essentially untranslatable in Chinese), and the Treasury Department has taken the lead in engaging China in a "strategic dialogue" on economic issues.

I bring this up because it illustrates that, when you get outside the Middle East, there is a lot more consensus about U.S. foreign policy than you might think. Zoellick's speech could easily have been delivered by Joseph Biden; replace Hank Paulson with Bob Rubin and you would get a very similar trade discussion.

There's also an argument implicit in Zoellick's speech that I think is extremely important. China is coming into its own, and adjusting to the incredible shift of global economic might from West to East -- not getting bogged down in backward places like Iraq -- ought to be the top priority of any U.S. administration. The Middle East, as Edward Luttwak has argued, is just a sideshow compared to Asia:

We devote far too much attention to the middle east, a mostly stagnant region where almost nothing is created in science or the arts--excluding Israel, per capita patent production of countries in the middle east is one fifth that of sub-Saharan Africa. The people of the middle east (only about five per cent of the world's population) are remarkably unproductive, with a high proportion not in the labour force at all.

As the East rises, the liberal internationalist institutions that Harry Truman and Dean Acheson built are growing increasingly creaky, and their legitimacy is now open to question. The key challenge for liberal internationalists going forward, then, is not to get mired in hand-wringing debates about Iraq and Kosovo, but to figure out how to not only put in place the Security Council changes that Matt and David talk about, but to build a new world order that reflects China and India's burgeoning economic clout. We tend to focus too much on security issues here in the commentariat, when the real action is on the economic side. But ultimately, it is incremental economic changes that drive everything else.

My bottom line: To put it in Thomas Friedman's terms (before he became obsessed with Iraq), America needs to focus more on the Lexus world and stop mucking around in the olive-tree world.


6 Comments

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The reason Kosovo and Iraq are important is that they are the result of policies that we have followed for the last 60 years and if we do not learn how we got into those messes we may very well repeat those mistakes. Matthew especially seems to have learned nothing from Kosovo, other than it was 'good', without seeing how the arguments that led us to war against Serbia were many of the same that lead to war against Iraq. And also seemingly deluded by the prewar propaganda that led up to that war.

My view is that we need to collectively acknowledge that the US has become addicted to military violence. There could be an opportunity to take advantage of our current defeat in Iraq to recognize this problem and just maybe mobilize the political will to change our war oriented society and economy.

I agree that China is good thing to appreciate but we should also recognize that this was the result of peaceful coexistence, not war mongering and threats. We need to nourish and protect that relationship and one of the important ways to do that is to keep the War Party at bay.

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We need to look to our own economic fundamentals, and not wring hands over Iraq, Kosovo, or China. (Regarding Iraq, wringing a few necks is more appropriate.)

I personally believe that China is way overated as a potential superpower or economic player. In the economic sphere, China has yet to develop an independent industry that can produce high-tech electronic consumer goods like the Japanese. How many Americans own computers and car that are made by Chinese owned companies? The only goods that China seems to produce are consumer goods that are owned by American companies. As to China being part of an stablizing international system seems to be very wrong in that the Chinese have a horrible enviromental record and their human rights abuses excede most nations in the world.Is this reponsible nation in its treatment toward its own people and enviroment?

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"responsible stakeholder" . . . "strategic dialogue"

What blather!

Of course, Iraq is the issue -- and for one reason -- oil.

It's control of this resource which, in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, generates conflict. It is the US's dominant position in the Persian Gulf which has CNOOC, Sino-Pec, and CNPC all backed up by the PRC running around Uzbekistan, Sudan, Gabon, the Spratly Islands, and half of South America doing deals. And it's these deals which will likely run up against US interests.

If liberals believe US policy in Iraq was wrong, then, [and unless liberals can argue that control of (strong influence over?) Persian Gulf resources is unnecessary] it behooves us to create an alternative policy which will accomplish the goal.

Iraq -- if only as an exemplar of a particular policy -- remains the ultimate issue.

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I was going to write something about how the Iraq issues and the China are interconnected, but Ellen essentially beat me to it.

I would add that there is no hope of substantial and effective international cooperation on global problems if the current world system degenerates into a situation where the major great power players simply have too many conflicting interests. Because then every issue and every location on the map gets caught up in the strategic calculations of the competitive struggle, and there are precious few opportunities for win-win outcomes. It seems to me that such a degeneration is occurring, and will continue unless some rather bold steps are taken to reverse it.

I'm sure Matt's books is very thought provoking. But people should really be reading Michael Klare's new book.

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Of course the US will not forget Iraq.

The US economy depends upon plentiful supplies of cheap gasoline, a point not lost on corporate and political profiteers, and their military lackeys.

Any US-driven new world order would be designed to abet US foreign policy in this regard and not "to build a new world order that reflects China and India's burgeoning economic clout." The US can count on the UK, French and German governments (but not their citizens) to help out.

Of course China and Russia have other ideas. The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) is an intergovernmental mutual-security organization which was founded in 2001 by the leaders of China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. to counter US interests in central Asia. Future possible members of the SCO include India and Mongolia, who currently have observer status, and Pakistan, Belarus and Iran.

So much for the US building a new world order. Beggars can't be choosers.

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