Mr. Olmert: "Tear Down That Wall....I Mean 'Those Settlements' " & Israelis Refuse to Protect Carter

It is amazing that right-wing Israelis and their American enablers have managed to convince even a single person that West Bank settlements are not at the root of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Think about it. The conflict is about who will ultimately control the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. It is no longer about Israel's right to the 78 percent of historic Palestine that is pre-'67 Israel; the PLO conceded Israel's right to statehood in that land 20 years ago and has never backed away from that concession. It is no longer about whether the Palestinians are entitled to a state because Israel conceded that the Palestinians have that right 15 years ago and have never backed away from that concession. It is not about each people's right to live in security (free from terrorism and other military threats) because the two sides have agreed to that principle a half-dozen times since the Oslo agreement was signed.

No, the conflict is about who will control the occupied territories. A final status deal must include full security for Israel in exchange for a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, and everyone knows it.

Even Khaled Mashal, the Syria-based political chief of Hamas, said this week that "Palestinians have adopted a joint position regarding the establishment of a Palestinian state within the borders of 1967." The Arab Initiative (the Saudi-sponsored plan endorsed by every Arab country) not only recognizes Israel's right to the 78 percent of Palestine that is Israel but pledges full recognition and normalization of relations if Palestinians are permitted to establish a state in the other 22 percent.

Nevertheless, successive Israeli governments have expanded settlements with truly reckless abandon. And not just Likud governments either. In fact, there has been little difference in settlement policy no matter which party is in power. And now Ehud Olmert's Kadima is continuing the folly by expanding settlements while simultaneously pledging to achieve a peace deal with the Palestinians.

It won't happen. The negotiations center on the final disposition of the West Bank and Gaza. How then can Israelis be said to be negotiating in good faith while they are simultaneously taking the land? That is like negotiating about the price of a home you want to purchase while your family, your furniture, and your dog are moving in.

There will be no peace if the settlements remain in place and everyone knows it. Of course, under any agreement, Jews should be allowed to live in the West Bank exactly as Arabs live in Israel, fully protected but under the laws of the Palestinian governing authority and under its flag. But there can and will be no peace with Israeli settlements smack dab in the middle of the Palestinian state just as Israelis would never tolerate autonomous Palestinian colonies in the midst of Israel.

The fact is that a settlement is more than just a bunch of houses. One Israeli anti-settlements activist puts it like this: "A settlement is never just a fortified group of red-roofed villas on the top of an occupied hill. . . . A settlement also means Israeli soldiers. . . . It means checkpoints, and roads connecting it with other settlements and with Israel itself. A road is not just land: it is an ever growing 'security belt' on both sides of it, belts of Palestinian fields and buildings swept by Israeli bulldozers. . . . The function of those ever-expanding by-pass roads is not only to serve the settlers but to cut off Palestinian towns and villages from one another, to cantonize the territories and split the Palestinians into minimal separate units . . ."

Without the settlements, there would be no need for over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks, most of which do not guard entry into Israel but prevent the movement of Palestinians within the West Bank. The settlers do not want to think about the local Palestinians, let alone see them. Between the checkpoints and the bypass highways, settlers can travel from home to job to soccer practice to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv without encountering an Arab. The Arabs on the other hand can barely get between their homes and their jobs without facing humiliating obstacles.

Then there are places like Hebron in which the army is deployed to defend a tiny population of settler extremists prone to torment local Palestinian kids. Last time I was there I got to see a terrorized population facing incessant abuse from extremists. (One Israeli government official described the Hebron settlers last week as "the worst of the worst.") Not only that, young Israeli soldiers--hating every minute of their service in Hebron--are themselves continually abused by settlers who think the soldiers should be doing their bidding rather than protecting the local population from them.

The irony is that few Israelis have any use for the settlers. Unfortunately, most Israelis do not have a say in the matter. The settlers are organized into powerful lobbies that threaten to bring down any government that defies them. That is why Prime Minister Olmert goes along with settlement expansion. He'd rather be prime minister than be right, which makes him no different than most political leaders.

It's all politics.

But this tyranny of the minority cannot be sustained. Recent polls show that Israelis are utterly cynical about their government. Offered a choice for the next prime minister most choose "none of the above." Compare Israel in 2008 to the United States and you see Americans determined to achieve "change" and Israelis resigned to the idea that change just isn't going to happen.

This is a pretty dismal place for Israel to be in for its 60th anniversary. No wonder the Israeli media reports that there is so little excitement about the upcoming celebrations. People just can't get excited about an anniversary when the general expectation is that the future is going to be far less glorious than the past.

This is tragic. The creation of Israel and its success as the sanctuary for the Jewish people is worthy of tremendous celebration. Sixty-five years after a 24 year old Jewish hero, Mordechai Anilevicz, led a hopeless uprising against the Nazis in occupied Warsaw, Israel is the fourth strongest military power in the world. It successfully defends itself and, in a real sense, defends Jews everywhere. Modern Hebrew, spoken by not a single person in 1880, is now spoken by millions of Israeli Jews, Palestinians, and "guest workers" from places like Romania and Thailand. Almost seven million Israelis live good, safe lives in a dynamic modern state. How utterly insane to jeopardize this triumph because politicians in Jerusalem are intimidated by fringe elements--not to mention the politicians here who are even more intimidated by the status quo lobby in Washington, DC. Israel deserves so much more than that.

Stop jeopardizing everything, stop killing the dream for the sake of a few fanatics.

Also, this is nuts. Israel is declining secret service protection to former President Carter during his current visit there because the Israelis are angry that he is visiting with Hamas.

Wow. Jimmy Carter is responsible for the Camp David peace treaty with Egypt that has saved God knows how many Israeli lives and he doesn't deserve secret service protection. Call me naive but I don't think any US ally has the right to refuse to protect any US President, past or present. As Israelis say "ayzeh chutzpah." Here's Ha'aretz defending Carter.


Comments (47)

avatar

I do very much have to sympathize with the Palestinians who have been driven from their homeland by a claim of rightful ownership that goes back thousands of years. Technically all of America belongs to the Indians who had an unchallenged claim to it until just a few centuries ago. Well, I guess with the exception of Manhattan Island, which we paid for. Of course, I'm not willing to give my land back to the Indians either. But neither do I pontificate about it being mine.

avatar

It's not the 'West Bank Settlements' that are the root cause of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. C'mon now! It's the anti-native Zionist ideology that dates to Herzl's 'Jewish State' of 1896, which saw the state as an extension of Europe, a "rampart" against Asia, and whose adherents roamed the world's capitals to garner support for the dispossession and disenfranchisement of the country's indigenous population. There was never a sense of creating a new nation with Jews and Arabs working together. In fact, the Yishuv went out of its way to hire Jews-only and avoid Arab businesses altogether. I'd say the modern-day settlements activity is nothing but the tip of the iceberg in terms of root causes, but the notion of partition between the peoples who call this land their homeland is a much greater factor. Better that they are together together, than 'together' in a desire for separation. Israel can't secede from the region if it wants to be recognized and accepted. It needs to embrace to be embraced. Sadly, it has so much to offer, but seems too caught up in notions of regained biblical Hebrew military prowess, coupled with the fears engendered by 2000 years of diaspora experience. It needs to be a bridge instead of a wall, a salve for the region instead of a thorn.

avatar

Sixty percent of historical Palestine is now in Jordan. Israelis and Palestinians are fighting over the other 40. Of course, Palestinian Arabs have never had self-government, or any aspects of a culture, language, literature or any other "national" identity until the craetion of Israel. Isaeli "occupation" of the West Bank followed Jordanian occupation, which must have been idyllic, since nobody complained then. Also, in fairness, how about a word about the Jewish refugees from Arab countries, who numbered almost as many as the Palestinian refugees. Why are the great-great-grandchildren of one group still in camps, while the other group were absorbed as citizens of a democracy?
Cui bono? And how about right of return for those Jews?

Your use of facts and logic will never work against your opponents here.

Carter's values are based in Southern Baptist teachings.
Much of what his church does is wonderful.
But a large percentage of Southern Baptists are anti semitic.
The church only teaches that anyone who does not accept
Christ as their savior will roast in hell. They talk about
Jews as doomed in their sermons.
I am from the deep south, and attended many services
with my friends, and they were not warm to judaism or jews
in the abstract, although they were certainly fine, loyal friends.
For me, his religion explains Carter's over-the-top embracing a culture that is hellbent on destroying Israel.

avatar

Jimmy Carter's Baptist Congregation in Plains pulled out of the Southern Baptist Convention some years back, Carter provided leadership in this move. He is also a leader in the process of bringing together a fairly large number of Southern Baptist congregations that have taken similar action.

The reasons for leaving the SB have to do with the Orthodoxy, the effort to impose a conservative theology on the convention, and this includes a debate about Jewish/Christian relations.

I would pay a lot more attention to the theology of John Hagee, who recently endorsed John McCain, also a Southern Baptist, who preaches what is, without question, an exterminationist theory of Armageddon.

Right, Jimmy Carter, Nobel Peace Prize winner for Camp David accords is anti-Semitic. Funny thing, he only became anti-Semitic when he wrote the truth about apartheid in the OT.

avatar

I'm not sure I'm correct about this...

But, aren't a lot of 'Israeli settlers' Americans that have moved there to make a religious-political stand?

"Israel can't secede from the region if it wants to be recognized and accepted. It needs to embrace to be embraced."

I agree with this. Proximity can be a bitch.

I liken it to 'what if' Newark NJ and NYC started building walls and passing laws that say residents of one cannot participate in the economic prosperity of the other, i.e. Newark can't send their kids to college in NYC, can't use the highways, bridges, tunnels or ferries to get to NYC to do restricted business, are subject to long lines and searches to gain passage into NYC.

I'm sure this is oversimplifying things, but I just don't understand the 'all we want is peace' line while their actions say otherwise.

Israel should be kicked in the ass for not providing security for Carter. I'm not sure you can find any rational American that wouldn't condemn this act by Israel.

What the hell is wrong with that Government?

Bush and his lacky Condi Rice should be putting out press releases condemning this irresponsible behavior by Israel.

We know where America's pecker is (Florida). But where is Israel's ass?

avatar

Q:Which country is not allowed to serve on the UN Security Council?
A:Israel, because Security Council members must represent a region, Israel has been denied membership in its region, and is forced to accept incomplete membership in "Europe" with the proviso that Security Council membership is not included in the deal.

avatar

The Israelis dislike Carter intensely. This shows up in the polls. He is the most disliked of all US presidents. There can be only one reason. He somehow forced Israel to withdraw from the Sinai. This was an extremely unpopular move among the more militant Zionists. It is also why keeping the settlements remains popular within Israel. Even if some polls show about half of the population supporting 'land for peace', it is the other half the militancy and fanaticsm that moves West Bank annexation policies.

avatar

syvanen writes:

The Israelis dislike Carter intensely. This shows up in the polls. He is the most disliked of all US presidents.

Hmm, I believe most Americans have the same feelings about President Carter. He was unceremoniously fired by them after only one term in office, and among post-WWII presidents, only Dubya and Nixon are more reviled.

There can be only one reason. He somehow forced Israel to withdraw from the Sinai. This was an extremely unpopular move among the more militant Zionists.

I believe this has more to do with the period after the Israeli-Egyptian peace accord in 1977. After Oslo, Carter morphed from an impartial broker into a strong pro-Palestinian advocate. This got him many friends in Oslo, Norway (Nobel Peace Prize) and in Ramallah, but not too many friends in Jerusalem. Even the pro-peace Israeli President Shimon Peres who met with Carter on his current visit, was highly critical of him.

As to M.J.'s typical hyperbole:

Israel is declining secret service protection to former President Carter during his current visit there because the Israelis are angry that he is visiting with Hamas.

Protecting former U.S. Presidents is the job of the U.S. Secret Service, not Israel's. Israel may offer assistance, but they have no duty to do so, especially since Carter is on a private, unofficial mission, i.e. he has not been invited by any branch of the Israeli Govt., nor does he represent any branch of the U.S. Govt.

Still, courtesy among allies often goes beyond protocol, and normally Israel goes out of its way to demonstrate its friendship to U.S. visiting dignitaries - regardless of political affiliation. Hence, I won't be surprised if we learn that the instructions to snub Carter did not emanate from Jerusalem but came straight from Washington, DC.


avatar
Hmm, I believe most Americans have the same feelings about President Carter. He was unceremoniously fired by them after only one term in office,

That is a rightwing meme in this country so I suppose it is not surprising to see it gravitate to Israel. But Carter was still one of the best presidents we have had since Eisenhower. He was brought down by a conspiracy between the CIA and the Iranians who worked to elect Reagan. I quess by definition his presidency was a failure is such an obvious conspiracy could destroy it, but that is the price any president has to pay if they are going to seriously take on the War Party.

avatar

syvanen writes:

... Carter was one of the best presidents ... since Eisenhower. He was brought down by a conspiracy between the CIA and the Iranians who worked to elect Reagan. I quess by definition his presidency was a failure if such an obvious conspiracy could destroy it

Your last sentence is very true: in an adversarial political system like ours, being a successful politician is a pre-requisite for being a successful President, although, as Dubya clearly demonstrates, it's an insufficient condition.

I don't think anyone ever questions Carter's good intentions while in office. However, his legacy is murky, to put it kindly, on almost every issue: national economy, national (Democratic) politics and international politics. (The only bright spot on the latter was the Israel-Egypt peace accords.)

Say what you will, the Reagan-Bush-Bush 2 era was unleashed upon us by the unnecessary missteps and failures of the Carter and Clinton administrations. Politics is a carnivorous business in which the Democrats all too often play the role of a vegetarian entree.


The Right has historically loved to attack Carter, and, imo, this was the beginning of their putsch, which they continued against Clinton, and on and on.

I don't know why or how the Republicans are given a free pass on their massively illegal dirty tricks, but let's look at the 'October Suprise' which syvanen alludes to:

October 1980, Iranian Embassy Hostages. In October, 1980, preceding elections in United States on November 4, 1980, Ronald Reagan's election campaign manager William Casey, Laurence Silberman and George Herbert Walker Bush went to Paris, France and held a series of meetings with Iranian officials from October 15 to October 20, 1980 to discuss the fate of the 52 remaining hostages taken from the US embassy building in Tehran, Iran on November 4, 1979. Iranian officials agreed not to release the hostages prior to election day on November 4, 1980 in exchange for a shipment of F-4 Phantom II aircraft tires and spare parts supplied to Iran from Israel between October 21 and October 23, 1980 in contravention of the United States' boycott and the Trading with the Enemy Act. The 52 hostages were finally released after 444 days in captivity on the same day, at the same hour, that Ronald Reagan was sworn into office on January 20, 1981.

source:Wikipedia

Of course, let's not forget that this led directly to Iran-Contra, and now to the war crimes of the Cheney/Bush cabal.

But no matter--that Jimmy Carter, he really screwed this country up, didn't he?


MJ,
Be very careful. In criticizing Israel you are exhibiting signs of "the new anti-Semitism" according to the US Department of State.

"The distinguishing feature of the new anti-Semitism is criticism of Zionism or Israeli policy that—whether intentionally or unintentionally—has the effect of promoting prejudice against all Jews by demonizing Israel and Israelis and attributing Israel’s perceived faults to its Jewish character."
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/102301.pdf

Contemporary Global Anti-Semitism Report
Released March 2008 by the Office of the Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism,
U.S. Department of State

MJ criticizes some Israeli policies, he doesn't demonize Israel. It is a distinction with a fairly clear difference. On the other hand, when remarks are thrown around implying that Jews have no national rights in Israel, or broadly characterize Israel and Zionism as a sort of religious "crusade," I would argue that such deliberate simplificiations approach genuine antisemtism.

Bar Kafka,
Sharpen your reading skills -- nobody claimed that MJ demonized Israel.

OK, have it your way, Don Bacon. So, you were "warning" MJ about... what then?

Bar Kafka,
You seem to be assuming that MJ doesn't have a sense of humor, an assumption without basis in fact.

avatar

Don Bacon writes:

MJ, Be very careful. In criticizing Israel you are exhibiting signs of "the new anti-Semitism"

Well, M.J. is a Jew, so by definition he cannot be an anti-Semite. Nevertheless, the Israeli settlements in the West Bank clearly put a crimp in M.J.'s Jewish liberal progressive style, and make him very uncomfortable in his Jewish skin, or, as the Nazis liked to call it: raw material for lampshades.

Just consider how liberating it would be to be born a Bacon rather than a Rosenberg. You could eat all the pork your heart desires and openly root for the enlightened countries that have never practiced occupation or colonialism, like, say, Great Britain... Oh wait! Never mind.


iaf,
You enjoy your silly name-games with MJ and me while hiding behind anonymity yourself. What are you hiding?

avatar

Judging from past experience, who is going to protect Carter from an itchy fingered IDF sniper? He might be safer if the IDF stays home.

Iain Hook comes to mind. Questions were asked then 'Why did an Israeli soldier shoot a British official in the back?'

Wow. Do you think they're really punishing Carter for meeting with Hamas or is this still blowback from Carter's use of the term "apartheid" last year?

avatar

"On the other hand, when remarks are thrown around implying that Jews have no national rights in Israel..."

I've always understood statehood and sovereignty to mean the ability to defend one's own borders.

If Israel relies on the U.S. for aid money ($3 billion annually) to fund their defense are they really sovereign?

In regards to Zionism - if its a religious belief (as I understand it) and one doesn't believe it - why is that 'antisemitism'?

This concerns me deeply (as an atheist) that we are declaring one state's religious belief 'protected' in such a way that we must believe it also.

Bush has installed a lot of Christian-Zionists into the government - and I don't think they are pandering, I think many of them truly believe it.

In regards to Zionism - if its a religious belief (as I understand it) and one doesn't believe it - why is that 'antisemitism'?

Zionism was and remains the political movement for Jewish national self-determination. Jews are a people, Judaism is a religion, and Jewish identity is not limited strictly to its religious component. The only reason to impose an arbitrary religious standard on Jewish identity is to attack the national legitimacy of the Jews.

avatar

Carter was careful to explain that he used the term "apartheid" not to refer to life in Israel itself (where Israeli Arabs have far more rights than South African blacks did), but to life in the occupied territories, where the relative positions of the Israeli settlers and the Palestinians is similar to the relative positions of whites and blacks in South Africa under the old regime.

The minority whites (settlers) get the best land, they get roads that only whites (settlers) can drive on, their standard of living is 10-20 times as good as the blacks (Palestinians), and they, and only they, have a voice in the government that counts (as opposed to the totally impotent and powerless Palestinian authority, which would be like a South African bantustan if it were given more powers.

avatar

Joe Buck writes:

Carter was careful to explain that he used the term "apartheid" not to refer to life in Israel itself (where Israeli Arabs have far more rights than South African blacks did), but to life in the occupied territories

Yeah right. And Carter put the racially connoted word "apartheid" in his book title for the same reason that Jonah Goldberg entitled his recent pile of dreck "Liberal Fascism": because the editor made him do it, to sell more books...

Let's get serious for a moment: there is no racial component to the Israeli-Pal. conflict, at least not from Israel's side. Using "apartheid" with regard to Israel, a jewish nation established precisely because only 70 years ago a majority of Europeans (and Americans!) considered the Jews a separate and inferior race, is intentional, provocative and highly offensive.

It is also patently untrue. The whites/blacks vs. settlers/Pals analogy you/Carter have concocted falls apart for the following reasons:

(a) Unlike SA, Israel did not conquer the territories with the intention to hold on to them. They were offered back to Jordan/Egypt right after the Six Day war -- in exchange for a negotiated end of hostilities, but both countries (and the Arab League) refused.

(b) Unlike the blacks in SA who always wanted to become equal-rights citizens of SA, the Pals in West Bank and Gaza do not wish to become citizens of Israel.

Finally, unlike the UK, France, Belgium, etc. who simply walked away from their colonies -- without ever endangering the welfare of their own peoples, Israel does not have the same luxury of a unilateral withdrawal (see the aftermath of 2006 disengagement from Gaza.) Hence, it must stay until a negotiated permanent agreement with the Pals is feasible. It's no picnic, but it's not apartheid either.


The whites/blacks vs. settlers/Pals analogy you/Carter have concocted falls apart for the following reasons:

(a) Unlike SA, Israel did not conquer the territories with the intention to hold on to them. They were offered back to Jordan/Egypt right after the Six Day war -- in exchange for a negotiated end of hostilities, but both countries (and the Arab League) refused.

It is surely arguable to assert that Israel had not initially intended to hold on to the territories acquired in 1967, but the argument runs into inconsistency when dealing with the settlement issue. Any argument against an Israeli colonial approach to the West Bank and Gaza runs up against a policy of settling Israeli citizens on land that no Israeli government had bothered to annex. The apartheid analogy began to succeed the moment real estate speculation in territories outside of Israel became official Israeli policy with no regard for the people who already lived there.

avatar

Bar Kafka writes:

It is surely arguable to assert that Israel had not initially intended to hold on to the territories acquired in 1967, but the argument runs into inconsistency when dealing with the settlement issue.

When arguing this issue, it's important to keep in mind the timeline.

Israel acquired the territories in June 1967. It immediately tore down the barrier that separated West and East Jerusalem, and formally annexed the latter. A unified Jerusalem and free access to Jewish holy sites, which was denied during the 19 years of Jordan's rule over the Old City, was the only "initial intent."

The rest (West Bank and Gaza) saw not a single settler until the middle of 1975, during Yitzhak Rabin's first stint as PM, when - in the aftermath of the Yom Kippur war, under pressure from Israel's right wingers and with no prospects for any peace talks with the Arabs - his govt. caved in and approved the first West Bank settlement.

Furthermore, Jordan never wanted to regain control of the West Bank, especially not after "Black September", 1970 bloody coup by PLO to overthrow King Hussein, and Egypt never wanted back the Gaza Strip. Evidence that both countries made this perfectly clear when they signed peace treaties with Israel.

For now, the Pals appear totally unprepared to assume any form of self-rule, such that will alleviate Israel's security concerns and won't produce a failed state.

In the mean time, as the political process is in a stalemate, life goes on and things happen on the ground. Some of the largest West Bank towns (e.g. Betar Ilit, Modi'in Ilit - pop. 40,000+ and growing) are populated by young ultra-orthodox Jewish families, with real problems of congested housing, dearth of schools, etc.

These folks are voters, and in Israel's fractured, inherently weak political system, they get their way, especially under the hated Olmert, who's no great leader but is a master political survivor.

It may already be too late for a two-state solution, not that the proposals for a Palestinian State - even along M.J.'s maximalist lines (full retreat to 1967 "Green Line", incl. East Jerusalem) - bear much promise. Look how well it worked out between Pakistan and Bangladesh. (Not!)


iaf,

The rest (West Bank and Gaza) saw not a single settler until the middle of 1975....

Not if you include Rabbi Levinger's settlement project that began with a permit for a Pesach seder in Hebron in spring, 1968. But anyway, the gist of my point remains that it just may need to come to pass that the people of Kiryat Arba, Ariel, etc. should choose either to return to Medinat Yisrael or politically emigrate where they already are as Palestinian Jews.

avatar

Bar Kafka,

I think you're right: settling in Gush Etzion and Kiryat Arba (Hebron) must have started before 1975. Sorry, my bad.

As to Jewish settlers staying put -- under Pal. control, I think you'll find no Pal. leadership that will agree to it: they insist on getting their land "Jüden frei".

This is somewhat of a sacred principle in Islam. To remind you, Jews (yes, Jews, not merely Israelis) are not allowed to lay their feet onto the sacred land of Saudi Arabia.

avatar

Perhaps weirdly, life under the Jordanian government was, relatively speaking, idyllic.

The Hashemite monarchy doesn't give the Palestinian majority in Jordan full democratic rights, but it treats them really quite well, and responds to their concerns much of the time -- idyllic compared to the apartheid / murder-of-innocents treatment they get in the Israel-occupied territories. And much the same relatively-decent treatment was true when the West Bank was under Jordanian control. (Notably, for comparison, the inhabitants of Gaza were, by the accounts I've read, *much* less happy with their Egyptian overlords than the inhabitants of the West Bank were with their Jordanian rulers.)

So MJ,

You describe a political situation in Isreal concerning the settlements reminiscent to the political pandering of both parties the last 40 years to the far-right, extremist, Cuban exile community in southern Florida. I cna think of no other situation in America than that of the Cubans in Florida that is such a clear case of the tail wagging the dog, but it is never discussed in honest terms. One only hears of the powerful Cuban American community in Florida, but rarely do you hear anything about their extremist, far right dreams of a return to power in Havana, and so on.

Similarly, we rarely hear anything that could be taken as criticism of the "settlements" in the occupied territories, let alone a description of the settlers as a small number of extremists who have inordinate political power. In fact, the settlements are routinely portrayed as having the widespread support of the Israeli people as a whole. Given the information we receive in the media, the average American would have to conclude the settlements are a very popular thing with widespread public support. Yet, you say (and I believe you) that they really are not so popular.

So, what can be done to change this impression? What can be done to help give some Israeli politicians some backbone so they'll stand up to this vocal minority that threatens not only the future of the middle east, but of the peace of the world? The picture you paint of the essential agreement over the larger issues of the right to both Israeli and Palestinian states to exist makes the continued occupation of the territories seem extremely foolish on the part of the Israelis, let alone morally indefensible.

What can any of us do to push both sides toward honest negotiations so we can have a lasting settlement? This has been going on my entire life. Frankly, I am appalled that no agreement has been reached since 67. I would think most people everywhere feel similarly. How can the parties be pushed toward meaningful negotiation and, in the end, peaceful coexistence?

I look forward to hearing your answer on this.

avatar
Given the information we receive in the media, the average American would have to conclude the settlements are a very popular thuing with widespread public support. Yet, you say (and I believe you) that they really are not so popular

MJ is overly optimistic. The settlements have very strong support within Israel. They include:
the 400000 settlers, about 8% of the population.
the recent Russian immigrants. About 10%.
The Sephardim- 10 -20% ??
The ultraorthodox ?
Plus the sabra and ashkensai that form the Likud base.

Opposed to this are the Tel Aviv suburbs that may oppose the settlements but do not do so with with the same passion that the prosettlement people feel.

Basically, politcally, Israel supports the settlements. That is their right. Why should the US continue to expend our military resources fighting wars on behalf a such a dysfunctional country?

syvanen,

Why should the US continue to expend our military resources fighting wars on behalf a such a dysfunctional country?

Wouldn't we agree that posing rhetorically loaded questions, based on usupported premises, is an active ingredient of cheap demagoguery?

avatar

The apartheid language troubled me a lot less after a bit of travel around the Territories. Still, it's inapt and inflammatory -- and I think Carter meant it to be. This struggle is about land, not dominance. Israel doesn't need or want cheap Arab labor. The occupation is a means of gaining control over land for zealous minority and security belt against terror for the ambivalent middle. MJ presents a pretty rosy scenario of the security Israelis live in, but as the era of advanced asymetrical warfare unfolds, fueled by the long arm of Iran (whose goals are clearly stated), being the fourth-biggest military power in the world (?) may not be all that useful. Still, the only long-term way forward is like South Africa: strike a deal with the folks on the other side who believe in the future instead of the past then repress the hell out of the rest. Hacking away at the tentacles of settlement enterprise would be a good place to start.

avatar

Does the apartheid analogy offend you? Sorry, Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu agree. They honor the Jews who fought with them against white rule, like Joe Slovo and Ronnie Kasrils, but they were Communists, not Zionists. But they also know that Israel collaborated with the white regime.

Who else has warned of Israel going the South African route if the window for a two-state closes? That lefty anti-Semite Ehud Olmert, that's who.

If anything, Carter was being too mild by saying the apartheid label only applies in the territories. The Arab citizens of Israel have many rights, but the state is defined as not theirs. The Law of Return is based on blood, not religious observance, so it does have a "racial" aspect, even if it applies to Ethiopian Jews as much as Russians.

The settlements, and mainstream Israel's refusals to confront them, make a viable two-state solution impossible. The one-state alternative will spell the end of Israel.

bluejerseyan,

The Arab citizens of Israel have many rights, but the state is defined as not theirs.

That's true. It is also true that non-Arab citizens of the 22 other nations between the Atlantic coast of Africa and the Persian Gulf that constitute the League of Arab States don't even have the level of civic enfranchisement that Arab-Israelis have. It is always interesting to find so few among us who have any problem with Arab hegemony in the region while so many seem to look forward to the end of Israel.

avatar

bluejerseyan,

First, what Bar Kafka said.

Second, you wrote:

Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu ... honor the Jews who fought with them against white rule, like Joe Slovo and Ronnie Kasrils, but they were Communists, not Zionists.

... and, as we all know, Communism - that altruistic, peace-loving, non-threatening, non-expansionist, benevolent, and, above all, highly successful political ideology, is so vastly superior to Zionism.

It's good of you, bluejerseyan, to finally reveal your true colors. Just do us all a favor and change your handle to "pinkojerseyan."

avatar

The general point of this column, that the settlements currently represent the biggest challenge to peace in the region, is correct. But it should be noted that the idea that one can't negotiate while settlements are expanding is as inaccurate as the idea that one can't negotiate while terrorism is occurring.

Obviously it would be better if people on both sides were acting in good faith. Instead the one side resorts to violence because they feel it is all they have. The other side expands settlements, either to satisfy important political committments, or to try to create facts on the ground (depending on which settlements are in question).

All of this is bad. But bad is pretty much the normal starting point in the region, and should not be seen as a necessary block to getting to better.

avatar

Israel is a failed state, founded on a flawed premise.

If the settlements remain, hope for a two-state solution will disappear and Israel will have the dubious distinction of declaring their Jewish minority as the apartheid rulers over their pseudo-democracy.

The country will be neither Jewish nor democratic.

avatar

S0 much crap on which to comment and so little time.

1. President Jimmy obviously likes the "Palestinians" and doesn't like the Israelis. He used "apartheid" to make a point and sell some books and it is sort of cowardly for him to attempt to back out now.

2. We usually don't call Jews antisimetic....when they say hateful things about other Jews and Jewish institutions that antisemites might say, we call them "self hating" Jews.

3. The Israeli "Law of return" is clearly not based upon "blood". All the blood in the world won't help if it is based on your father's blood. And anyone, of any blood, who converts to Judaism --- not an easy thing in the eyes of the Israeli Rabbinut, I would agree --- is entitled.

4. Ah yes, those idyllic times under Jordanian rule. Like when king Huessein killed how many "palestinians" in a time known as "Black September".

by the way mj...as long as "Palewtinian" schools teach their children that Israel doesn't exist, as long as religious leaders insist that it is a duty of all good muslims to regain land that once was muslim, as long as "Palestinian" maps don't even show the state of Israel within any borders, your claim that it is "only the settlements" really looks stupid. It isn't "self hatred". It is simple denial.

avatar

Agreed bbayer, it's gotten to the point that if I see something is written by MJ I can pretty much expect a healthy dose of self loathing.

There's a complete lack of basic logic in this gibberish. First of all, where is your proof that if the settlements go the Palestinians will uphold their end of the bargain, and there will be peace? Is this blind faith, intuition, or wishful thinking? There's no guarantee whatsoever that hostilities would end. Hence you're proposing a lose/lose situation. Brilliant.
Using cold war slogans (which by the way makes Israel the "evil empire") again, brilliant.
I can't believe this guy... he thinks he has it all figured out, when no one else could!

avatar

Moving forward a bit

It's likely that voters in the coming US presidential election will think a bit more holistically, more macro when considering the serious character assessment of their candidate, this time.

It's desperate times for both the US economy, and US social stabilty.

US families are very worried about their future, under the present US administration and historically, voters in similar collective mindsets have gone for the hopeful change, usually despite massive fear bombardment about change, by the self-professed learned rich incumbents and their lot.

Obama is the hopeful change this time.

Commentators who focus on the micro contradictory utterances of candidates , normally find it difficult to fathom logically the simplicity of a collective public perception, one that sees differently and prevails, just because it’s “the time to happen”.

Obama has that simple "Macro" honesty energy necessary for successful change to happen around him.

He is courageously building his public personna to be more than the sum of it's parts; to put it lyrically.

It will take a very big and often repeated gaff to stop him now.

Obama has consistently shown enough guts to move off message a bit, nearly always going on to wing it in his talks, and he is progressively building this into political momentum.

He seems able to fight single-handedly against all the massive contra spin levelled at him, and he's becoming ever more polished at doing it.

The public consciously, or subconsciously picks up on this.

This difficult energy of honesty can't be faked for very long without slick editing.

And today’s slick spin editors are all headed for redundancy

See the genies is out of the bottle.

And if our Emporers have no clothes, we react quickly now.

Both Mccain and Cheney can't go more than a minute or 2 without looking and sounding very dubious.

And to a lesser extent, the Clintons dont look honest when they wing it in public, and they look dated.

All candidates are aware of the value of winging it rather than being glued to the planned script.

Candidates know the public are expecting nothing less of them in this age.

A duplicitous agenda gets anyone found out very quickly in this age of much un-edited live speech and immediate wide-open scrutiny.

So voters will really get to know the candidates’ warts, this time around.

Obama is the most novice of the candidates, But in working his his way through this phase of his evolution, he looks to have surpassed Clinton and McCain already.

I get the feeling that most Americans would not begrudge him reaching the high standards usually needed to be US President.

But most dont think he’s there yet.

Nearly everybody respects someone who can overcome odds to honestly succeed.

Like a boy named Sue

Obama has got some work to do

And a lot of people are watching to see if he can beat the massive odds : bigotry and fear and racism and suspicion and oppression and conditioning and and and, the beat goes on...

Maybe to realize what America was founded on.

Guts, decency and enterprise against big odds.

Obama is becoming very able at fending off negative responses to the slip-ups he makes, when they occur.

More so he is becoming reasonably polished and fluent,looking more statesman-like when confronted with those occassions.

Great men are never owned by those who assist them to their thrones, only less than great men go there.

Millions of Americans can see Obama as having more important issues to attend to , in life, rather than allowing himself to be dictated to by that measure.

If Obama evolves courageously and does rise to greatness , he will take the US into a smarter future, more accessable to people of any colour, religion or sexual lean, provided they abide by the law.


The old "Whip up the Patriotism" distraction guys, like Cheney and McCain, and to a lesser extent Clinton are maintaining plenty of the tried and true cliche’d popularism cynical devices in their destabilizing campaign against Obama, but this masks a continuously dangerously headed course for US people, who have been unjustly represented worldwide by their recent leaderships.

Both McCain and Hillary look like they are struggling to fathom policy with with global perspective.

It looks like Obama is doing it a bit tough and exposed,without a “Good Ol boys” team behind him.

If US voters elect him President, he will also be refreshingly embraced by the European Community, Asia, The Pacific nations, Canada, Australia, Austria, South America and the Middle East, with the probable temporary exception of Israel; whose population he will likely benefit, despite it's recent woeful leadership’s reckless attitude.

It’s getting too difficult for the the western press to orchestrate successfully, a one way, no-reply, imagery, for any political figure , or even governments anymore.

McCain is having a faithful shot at it though

His LLLetttttterMan limber-up for example.. is subtle, but no longer effective...and Dave’s always doing his subtle best to help.

Must be time for a break---------------------------


The old fruitful one way, no-reply press model is faltering in it's efforts to deliver even the subtlist propaganda, to the masses seriously anymore.

Even sanitized truth is hard to land and get gobbled.

People are learning and communicating 2-way un-edited now.

To get by, the truth has to be the truth , more so than ever.


Traditional television newscasts in the US, and around the world are not trusted as factual or balanced anymore, (according to virtually all polling organisations, including the television industry’s own polling).

There is a quickly growing and significant portion of the public that is able to gather and knit the important pieces of information about issues together, to analyse issues for themselves.

The information is sourced mostly, but not entirely through the the web.

Ironically the web is becoming trusted without verification, because it is multisource self-verifying, virtually instantaneously.

And although, for a while, some measures of censorship, and vested interests, can with “Might”, block and corrupt information, and or flow of information, this doesn’t really change anything for this new population of news seeker, except give them a vex to locate a keener search engine.


Finding the truth is going to get very fast for everyone.

This of course was, something that was formerly entrusted to credible journalists , but that is no longer the case, due to rife Media ownership conflicts of interests, which have ruined the news hour and almost totally wiped out credible journalism, even in sports.

The question for Murdoch and other Media owners is:

Has the Media wittlessly? inspired new breeds of investigative sleuths, who, in the absence of believable news and serious journalism , will take it on themselves to find the news.

And they are ‘digg’ing the task aswell.

More and more of the world’s population is becoming part of this new “Truth Sleuth ”

And this new rising sleuth population is seemingly a natural progression, and it is easily equipping itself with more and more credible sources.

Feasibly, it could grow in size and effectiveness within a very short timespan to swamp the desperate media empires?, who for so long have flagrantly challenged the silent intellect of their habitual readership, almost to mockery.

This new and fast growing truth sleuth population of newscasters, almost all approve of Obama.

And they can smell a faked up propaganda thread in an instant. So big business and party political slant stuff in any media, the web especially, is getting tagged and, not only flicked but flagged as what it is and thereby instantly marginalized into guugly marginalized media land, or anywhere for that matter, then to where elephants go to die.

The point being that erroneous propaganda, once discovered , is not only being destroyed , but it is also tagged to the reputaton of it’s perpetrator.

And immediately so.

Perhaps Media moguls might begin to see the value of not peddling propaganda.

They might even send an edict out to their; gainfully sad, but forcefully obsequious, workers: Ahoy!Ahoy! It’s time to return to veracitous journalistic content? And reap satisfaction.

We’ll see

Time for a coffee ----------------------

Only honest inclusive Leaders will be able to survive as large scale Leaders in this near future trading climate.

This is gonna mean some serious crisis time for the dubious rich war mongers, who rely on the availability of a neverending supply of unquestioning “Active Duty” from others.

To supply life and death “Duty”, to solve political problems and problems resulting from poor leadership, is a gross and failing abuse of the military, and it’s not going to go on without serious American public scrutiny of the power that allows it, for much longer.


Obama is the only US leader who is respected by the rest of the future thinking, enterprising prosperous world community.

Someone who thinks big enough and has the guts to say that a man with a gun isn’t brave, is one man who is.

Ask a soldier

And ask a Christian what Christ said about religion ,when asked what it is needed for.

The Bible writes that, when asked, Christ said simply: religion is to provide comfort for orphans and widows who suffer.

Perhaps all religions worldwide are guilty, of indulging in too much praise and prayer at the expense of real religious Ethical actions.

Perhaps when US voters take the lead in coming to know this , they will see the benefits, and find how quickly America's woes can turn around for the better, with more ethically consistent policies and actions.

World Staple food prices have doubled in a year, as a result of Financial market instruments being used to prop up the accustomed to, gains rates of the "Greed is Good" guys.

The”Greed is Good” guys dont want to give an inch of their ill gotten gains back, even if America is in economic and social crisis , or frought with increasing possibility of military banktuptcy.

A lot of these influencial greedy good guys remain comfortably deluded, in the belief that the world will go on tolerating their lensed indifference to the castasrophic suffering of , not only their countrymen and woman, but to the international community, and it’s likely ability to resolve the entrenched international problem of terrorism on behalf of the US and Israel.

These inept rich patriot lingo savvy guys wont remove themselves.

They have to be voted out.

The press peddle up the Sub-Prime every week as the mask to explain The Us and global economic mire.
The Middle East Military Fiasco , is what is bankrupting the US

McCain is a total continuation of Cheney-Bush-Bring it on Ltd.

Hillary is a partial cure , but a bit too dated to be leader
She would be a stop-gap measure.

But if she partners Obama , she would be the making of a formidibly respected US Leadership , internally and internationally.

Clinton’s knowledge and network of relevant Democrat and moderate Republican contacts and thinkers, would further enable Obama.

Obama with Clinton would be a fresh new relevant government for the US.
And a solid Foundation to continue on with the still relevant and heritage special, tried and true good ways of American Enterprising Culture.


Obama is Future US 100% and world US future savvy.

The American public are becoming more aware about this.

If Obama can sustain momentum and go on to become US President, then the rest of the world will allow him time to dismantle the old cartels which have diabolically sapped The US strength and lead it to indulgent conflicts, costing millions of lives and trillions of dollars.

Barack Obama is:

not Osama Bin laden.
not OJ Simpson.
not Ehud Barac
not the late Saddam Hussein.
or Mad Max

He is probably unluckier than Arnold Schwarzenegger.

But Cowboys

“It’s The Black Guy’s Turn”

leave your weapons at the door

Give him a go to do the right thing

God Bless America

See Ya at the Olympics.

avatar

Guys,

Please check out an alternative view of the future on the Israeli-Pal. issue.

The author, Giora Eiland, is a former IDF general and the former chairman of Israel's National Security Council. AFAIK, he is currently not associated with any political party in Israel.

Post a Comment

Inside Cafe



Cafe Features


August 4-9

Book Cover

August 11-15

James Galbraith The Predator State

August 18-22

Book Cover

September 1-4

Book Cover

September 8-12

Book Cover

September 15-20

Book Cover

October 6-12

Book Cover





Book Club Archive



Masthead

Editor-in-Chief
Josh Marshall

Site Editor
Lila Shapiro

Intern
Al Shaw



Subscribe to TPMCafe's feed.
Subscribe to TPMCafe's reader blog feed.

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address