Obama’s Judgment on the Eve of Judgment Day
It is no secret that I have serious reservations about Barack Obama’s lack of experience and questionable judgment. And, until recently, the media avoided doing hard hitting pieces on the good Senator. Well, it appears that the main steam media finally is starting to ask some questions that should have been raised months ago. Consider Barack’s stance on Afghanistan. For almost a year, Barack has been pretty clear about the policy he would pursue. During a speech in August 2007 at the Woodrow Wilson Center, Barack said:
He went on to say with respect to Afghanistan:It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world’s most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland.
As President, I would deploy at least two additional brigades to Afghanistan to re-enforce our counter-terrorism operations and support NATO’s efforts against the Taliban. As we step up our commitment, our European friends must do the same, and without the burdensome restrictions that have hampered NATO’s efforts. We must also put more of an Afghan face on security by improving the training and equipping of the Afghan Army and Police, and including Afghan soldiers in U.S. and NATO operations.
We must not, however, repeat the mistakes of Iraq. The solution in Afghanistan is not just military — it is political and economic. As President, I would increase our non-military aid by $1 billion. These resources should fund projects at the local level to impact ordinary Afghans, including the development of alternative livelihoods for poppy farmers. And we must seek better performance from the Afghan government, and support that performance through tough anti-corruption safeguards on aid, and increased international support to develop the rule of law across the country.
So what is the problem? I think these are sound positions. However, if Barack genuinely believed what he was saying, why did he not use his status as the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee on European Affairs to examine the validity of using NATO in Afghanistan?
This is not a bullshit question. The U.S. decision to turn to NATO to help us out in Afghanistan was old news by the time Barack became chairman in 2007. NATO started ramping up troops in Afghanistan in December 2005. When January 2007 rolled around Barack was in a unique position, by virtue of his chairmanship, to do a series of hearings that, for example, on the challenges facing the United States in Afghanistan and the viability of relying on NATO. But Barack says he was “too busy” running for President.
Sorry, but that is a lame excuse. Are we expected to believe that he was incapable of putting together at least one hearing that would have helped burnish his limited foreign policy credentials? This is more than a tactical mistake. For me it is a question of his judgment and his political vision. This smacks of someone who is so intellectually lazy or incurious that he failed to recognize the opportunity dropped into his lap. He wants to run for President. Foreign policy issues are a critical part of the upcoming campaign. And what does he do to bolster that part of a thin resume? Nothing.
Unfortunately, this flaw in judgment is not isolated to his failure to hold a hearing. It appears to be a consistent theme in his political life. He has more than a passing friendship with an unrepentant terrorist, William Ayers. And he goes into a questionable real estate deal with one of his political supporters and fundraisers, Tony Rezko, when Rezko is facing imminent indictment on Federal corruption charges. Folks with sound political instincts would know to avoid these kind of situations. It looks wrong and in politics perception matters.
But Barack’s problems, particularly with Rezko, go beyond a simple matter of perception. CNN identified some of the looming pitfalls (view youtube here).
And this Rezko problem in all likelihood will get worse for Obama in the coining weeks. Tony’s trial starts on Monday. He’s up against Patrick Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald already has sent a former Illinois Republican governor to jail on corruption charges. He also beat a massive propaganda campaign in Washington to exonerate Scooter Libby and convicted him on perjury and obstruction of justice for his role in outing Valerie Plame. Fitzgerald is not likely to fail.
Rezko does not have George Bush behind him with a tacit offer of a pardon. Rezko does not have a group of prominent Washington and political luminaries willing to make excuses for his crimes as did Scooter Libby. Rezko faces significant fines and jail time. A man under that kind of pressure will have no second thoughts about throwing other people under the bus. Senator Obama, who received hundreds of thousands of dollars from Rezko in his previous campaigns, who had a real estate deal with him, who intervened on his behalf on government matters, is very likely to get dirtied up in this trial. As the political season enters June, the American people may be asking the question, how venal is Obama?
I do not begrudge Barack his ambition. He is a shrewd politician. But I also see a consistent pattern of flawed judgment. Not holding hearings on what NATO could or should do in Afghanistan and buying property with a guy who is the target of a Federal corruption probe are radically different issues but reflect the same lack of sound judgment. Obama’s questionable judgment on these issues outweigh his 2002 opposition to the war in Iraq in my book.
Regardless of what happens in the upcoming Tuesday primaries, these issues will not go away. And as the public learns more about the real Barack Obama, the bloom on his rose is likely to fade and fade dramatically.


Comments (143)
How do you explain Hillary missing the February 14 FISA vote even when she was in Washington?
From Constitutional scholar pans Clinton for fleeing from FISA fight:
Hillary Clinton, who skipped the politically tricky and controversial Senate vote on the spy law Tuesday even though she had been campaigning in Washington that day.
"It really, I think is symbolic of this disconnect ... here you've got someone who is campaigning for the President of the United States, making pitches to civil libertarians, but doesn't even show up -- when she's in the neighborhood -- to vote against telecom immunity," Turley charged. "I'm not just dumping on her. The fact is there has been a lot of really duplicitous work being done by both parties."
Republican John McCain and Barack Obama both voted on amendments to the measure; Obama opposed telecom immunity, while McCain supported it. Clinton left town early to get to a campaign stop in Texas.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Turley_The_fix_has_been_in_0214.html
March 1, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, Larry, nice hatchet job/character assassination.
But, let me show you how to do it right.
First, who's illicitly killed more people in the past, Weather or the CIA? You know the answer to that one.
So, instead of castigating Obama for his connection to Ayers, shouldn't you instead condemn Clinton for associating with ... people like you?
(From a left-liberal who won't be voting for Obama or Clinton.)
March 3, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You lost me at Ayers and Rezko.
March 1, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, you shouldn't let you eyes glaze over. The GOP will hit Obama with Ayers, Farrakhan, and "Hussein." Rezko will be in the News, and let's hope there isn't too much garbage there.
The NATO thing is totally legitimate.
It was an important sub-committee, he should have stepped down and let someone that had the time to run it do so. I think he didn't because it "sounds good" as part of his qualifications.
That makes me uneasy.
March 1, 2008 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The NATO thing is legitimate, the Ayers and Rezko issues have been widely discredited. Besides, what am I supposed to do, vote for Clinton on the basis of who has some dubious skeletons in the closet? That's just nuts.
March 1, 2008 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course not. Didn't you already vote in the primary?
The thing is, it just doesn't seem very proactive to dismiss these issues that Larry brings up. Obama will likely be the nominee, in which case it's high time to look beyond to the turning of the worm (AKA the MSM) and be prepared for them.
These minor things can get twisted into major kurfuffles. I mean "I invented the internet" helped to sink Gore. It didn't matter that he'd never said any such thing.
March 1, 2008 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You do raise a good point. Perhaps I was a bit reactive there. There's just been so much baseless crap thrown about this cycle, as is usually the case I suppose.
I guess I could be way off, but I don't really see the Ayers or Rezko thing coming back to haunt him. I also don't really think Al Gore's internet comments were what sunk him. IMHO, it was Bill. Gore felt her had to distance himself from Clinton and he might have been right, but he arguably lost Tennessee and Arkansas as a result. Had he won either of these states Florida wouldn't have been an issue.
I think where Larry has a point here is that, should Obama become the nominee, McCain is going to be hitting him twice as hard with the same argument Hillary Clinton is making and I think in people's perceptions he's about 10 times, to pull a number out of my rear, more credible in this respect than she is. The microscope will be on him and he will have to answer questions like Larry poses about NATO.
Clinton is actually really lucky that so far there's really no spotlight on her foreign policy record, or lack thereof.
March 2, 2008 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't say it sunk Gore, I said it helped.
Otherwise, I'm pretty much in agrement.
March 2, 2008 5:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Re-reading Larry's post, my problem with the Ayers/Rezko reference was that he tries to use it as a way to expand a valid criticism about Obama's judgment on foreign policy into a far more general, and far less substantial, criticism of his judgment in general. Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.
A little known fact about Hillary Clinton is that she had an erstwhile relationship with legendary radical organizer Saul Alinsky. Now, this could have produced some associations with characters that Clinton would probably at this point not want to be connected with. To my knowledge this didn't happen, but to bring this up now wouldn't really affect the way I assess her judgment. It just isn't relevant.
March 2, 2008 1:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, but Obama hasn't had the "pleasure" of an all-out GOP "lovefest."
If the last two elections are any indication, it's going to get ugly.
March 2, 2008 5:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Re:
"... valid criticism about Obama's judgment on foreign policy..."
Please check this out; it is an article by Barack in Foreign Affairs Magazine/> that should allay anyone's fears about his lack of knowledge and thoughtful judgements in that area.
For criticism to be valid it should be based on something other than assumptions. I don't think there is anywhere near as much evidence to doubt his judgements, compared to Hillary's. Not reading what he wrote is not a reason to believe that he doesn't know anything.
March 2, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
The link didn't come through above. Hope it does here:
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070701faessay86401/barack-obama/renewing-american-leadership.html
I wish I knew how to make it an actual link. Sorry. The old site was effortless at that, and I could have edited my first post instead of having to respond to my own, AND I wouldn't have to use 2 different passwords to do this!
Oh, and I could find new posts without having to re-read all the way down the chain!
March 2, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm reading, along with the usual sunday shuffle.
So far, it sounds pretty much like what LJ posted. I guess it doe go into more detail.
So far, so good.
March 2, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the thing that really ticks me off. Since when do DEMOCRATS use GOP SMEAR TACTICS then say "oh well, he's gonna have to face it in the GE. We're doing him a favor"
That is like the drug dealers excuse for selling to kids "Well somebody is going to do it, it might as well be me"
We are DEMOCRATS. We REJECT ROVIAN POLITICS. IT IS WRONG!
March 3, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fascinating. Instead of dealing with the substance of the post you raise an extraneous issue. Answer the Obama question first. Equating a missed vote with a failure to hold hearings on something your candidate claims is important is not even in the same ball park.
March 1, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Especially if his candidate did the same thing.
March 1, 2008 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ayers is not an unrepentant, he repented decades ago when he reentered mainstream society. Maybe an unrepentant exCIA cold warrior like yourself can't accept this, but terrorists reenter mainstream all the time. Begin, Sharon, Mandela, Arafat to name a few.
You are simply pissed to have picked a loser, and can't accept that there will be no job for you in the never-to-be Clinton administration.
March 1, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's childish. Grow up.
Do you think these things won't come up in the General? It's better to get answers rather than just beat up on Larry.
March 1, 2008 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have recently become my favorite poster.
Lots of common sense and humanity.
March 1, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. I just lost my train of thought. That's very nice, thank you.
I enjoy reading your posts, as well. You have a very clear and concise way of communicating. That's a gift.
March 1, 2008 11:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Peter! Good to see you again.
March 1, 2008 11:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Bruce,
I'm trying to get used to this new format. I really liked the old one, even when the columns narrowed down to one letter's width.
Also, you could find out easily if someone had responded to you without endless scrolling.
OTOH, these blocs of type are easier to read for old "old eyes."
Somehow, the discussions seem a bit more muted than on the old format. Maybe that was the idea?
Where's Zionista? Where's BevD? Where's Howard? Lally? Wordie?
Anyway, good to read your posts. I am an Obama supporter, but I don't like the way Dems have been trashing her. It's really almost as if she can't say anything positive about herself and her record--or negative about his--without howls of derision.
Maybe she's just supposed to let the Obama wave wash her out to sea.
March 2, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Peter,
I liked the old format much better.
I agree with you about how Hillary is being trashed.
There was a time when I was a 100% Hillary backer, willing to forgive her 'political cover your ass' vote for the Iraq war.
Since then I'm now under the impression I had about Kerry, she's an equivocator, unwilling often, to answer a question honestly lest it offend someone, somewhere. Her non-answers at times are maddening.
Then, her vote against the Durbin amendment and for the Kyle-Lieberman amendment came along and it infuriated me and so I started looking for a different candidate. I chose Edwards because I didn't think Obama could win the General election, but with Edwards out, whoever the Dem nominee may be, they get my vote.
I think its just as easy to offer reasons for supporting candidate A without trashing candidate B.
At this point I think Obama will get the nomination, and the only way Hillary can win if she announces on national TV that if nominated she will offer Obama the VP spot.
March 3, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Larry has quite openly become a Hillary hit man and that makes him fair game.
I am simply posing a simple hypothesis as to why he is so willing to antagonize so many people for what is most likely a lost cause. He obviously has little respect for those of us who support Obama and likely make up the majority readers here. He could defend Hillary without insulting us. Why does he do it? One thing is clear to me and that is he doesn't really have any loyalty to democrats in general and is pursuing some other agenda.
March 1, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where did he insult anyone in this post?
So he supports Hillary. So what? Lots of people do and these aren't concerns that won't be brought up by the Swiftboaters. Most of these issues have been brought up by the opposition. Why shoot the messenger?
If you're so sure Obama will win the nomination, then why the animosity? Shouldn't you be courting Hillary voters?
The General is the big vote. The one that counts.
March 2, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
This article is relatively subdued but some of his earlier comments were quite nasty. I have been quite cordial to Hillary supporters. I am very active in my local democratic party club and have worked hard on maintaining party unity. But I do not trust LJ; I don't think he cares about our party.
March 2, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno. I think I want Larry on our side after the primary. It seems to me he's trying. Maybe you should, too.
This is hard. I've always pretty much agreed with you.
March 2, 2008 5:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Substance? Come now Larry you still aren't quite up to Rovian class in your swift boat attacks.
Besides, it matters not whether Obama held a hearing. What matters is how strongly some of us have come to absolutely despise the Clinton campaign.
I see she has once again dropped health care and is back to trying to out Bush, Bush on the fear and loathing, hide under the covers, lock the door and wait for the COMMANDER IN CHIEF, to slay the monster in the closet campaign.
BE AFRAID!!!
March 1, 2008 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Do you think these things won't come up in the General?"
Sure, McCain can run Clinton's ads and quote from Larry's posts. But at least Americans will have a choice not just McCain vs. McCain-Wannabe. At least McCain was a REAL military officer. So if we must have 4 more years of fear and threats and hiding under the beds we should vote for the REAL veteran of foreign wars.
But if we want real change, if we want a new direction, if we want someone who doesn't figure every problem requires the COMMANDER AND CHIEF to order an invasion, vote for Obama. At least we have a chance for change, maybe a small chance, but a chance. With Clinton we get the same thing we've got now.
March 1, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is not a bullshit question.
Actually, it kind of is. Plenty of Senators have endorsed Obama, and don't seem to have a problem with him not holding hearings.
If anything, like Rezko, it's a completely minor detail. Just like Hillary Clinton has many minor detail problems on her side.
But the primary election is not being contested on these minor bullshit details, as much as Clinton's campaign seems to be trying to make it so.
People either think Clinton brings "experience" to the table, or they want to "turn the page" with Obama.
Not much else matters.
March 1, 2008 11:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
(Recovering train of thought)
I see what you and Bluebell are saying. I'm just not sure I agree that there is any difference between the two Dems. That's probably a discussion best held elsewhere. It's hard for folks that worked for Lamont, (to be accurate, I worked for MoveOn on behalf on Lamont) to let go of our disappointment that Obama backed Lieberman. Everytime Lieberman opens his mouth, 100 Liberals in Connecticut feel a goose walk over their graves.
In the meantime, I would remind you two that the GOP has been well known to make election busting mountains out of molehills.
It's best to be prepared.
March 1, 2008 11:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
It sure looks to me like Barack Obama endorsed Ned Lamont in the General election. Its not like Hilary Clinton was hard working for Ned Lamont. She endorsed Lieberman in the primary too:
This seems like mountains out of nothing at all.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/05/politics/main1774454.shtml
http://www.nedlamont.com/blog/1976/barack-obama-writes-emails
March 1, 2008 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm.. appreciate the perspective on the Lamont issue. I really, really wish he had won.
March 2, 2008 12:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Me, too. I think this Dem Congress would have looked a lot different.
March 2, 2008 5:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice Try, workerbee!
Hillary Clinton endorsed Senator Joe Lieberman over Ned Lamont. Like just about every other sitting Senator did.
However, Barack Obama endorsed Ned Lamont. Not every sitting senator did that.
In fact, guess who Ned Lamont endorsed?
I'll will give you a hint, his name rhymes with arack Bobama.
March 2, 2008 1:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're an idiot.
Who did Lamont back first? Did Obama say he wouldn't back Joe if he ran as an Independent? Did Hillary Clinton EVER campaign for Joe?
(Answers: Dodd; No, but Hillary did; Yes, but Obama didn't)
Stop being such an aggressive twit.
Thank you.
March 24, 2008 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to quibble, but be accurate. Obama backed Lieberman in the primary, only. As did other elected and other non-elelected, but prominent Democrats. (I got a robocall from Bill Clinton telling me how fab Joe was). Obama did not support Lieberman in the general election, although Democrats within CT did, as well as such lovely progressive democrats as Ken Salazar...
March 2, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the primary did come first. As you yourself said, the support in the general was hardly lukewarm.
Obama blew a clear opportunity to lead the way forward in an issue near and dear to Americans hearts. The war. That's a pity.
The consequences are far reaching. I think that had Ned won by a larger margin, Lieberman might not have run. I stand by my comment that everytime that sorry turncoat, Lieberman, opens his mouth 100 Liberals in Connecticut feel a goose walk over their grave.
{shudder} he must be talking now. Oh right, it's Sunday. No doubt he's on some talk show. Pity he gets so much airtime.
March 2, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
CSCS,
“People either think Clinton brings "experience" to the table, or they want to "turn the page" with Obama. Not much else matters.”
Or maybe, not much matters less. So, Obama is ‘change and hope’ and Clinton is ‘experience and security.’ Aren’t these just the contentions of each campaign? Obama is hardly any more of a change agent than Clinton and she is no more experienced as president than he. Both are establishment Democrats, far left of McCain and Bush, but pragmatic and realistic politicians. Both will promote populist interests but only to the extent they are forced to.
Something that is strangely lacking and unacknowledged in this (primary) election is the progressive interest-group demands of the candidates. Yes, here at TPM, Larry asks why Obama has not used his office to effect his ideas and MJ asks why Clinton surrogates race-bait, but the real question is, who is going to correct the last seven years of Conservatives Gone Wild?
Who’ll dismantle the Unitary Executive? Who’ll end the elective war and cowboy diplomacy or stop the torture or spying? Who’ll restore due process and civil rights and end the criminalization of speech? Who will stop the corporate welfare and giveaways to the rich and the exporting jobs and privatization of government and the recession?
Who’ll stop the financial companies from raping the poor, stop the denial of science, stop the crony incompetence and destruction of government, and stop the… Okay, okay, I could go on and on, but I won’t. Everyone has their own questions, I guess.
March 2, 2008 3:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don:
I hear you loud and clear. The only thing I can say, because I am a pretty cynical guy when it comes to politics, is that I am not cynical about people. I look at presidents as a means to the ends that matter. A Democrat in the White House, almost any Democrat and certainly Clinton and Obama, give us a better shot at pursuing a prgressive domestic and international agenda than John McCain does.
But it's up to us, as always. I am concerned that all of the energy we are seeing will simply disappear when the election is over. I've said it before and I'll say it again. When the election is over, our job, the job of the people, just begins. I will repeat what I have written before. Thank heavens that we are a government of and by the people and not just for the people. And that means among other things that we don't just sit around and wait for some holier than thou politician to do what we expect. It is our job to keep reminding him. . .or her. And you're pretty good at doing just that Don Key (even though I'm so sorry to say you didn't have any effect on the outcome of this year's football season--hee).
Regards.
Bruce
March 2, 2008 9:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I’m with you, Bruce. I found myself actually pulling for the Giants –shudder- (though I think the Cowboys were paid to take a dive - those NY teams and all their money!). You’re right that any Dem would be better than McCain. Still, a Dem who is pressured into living up to his or her rhetoric would be even better. And I’m not cynical about people either- politicians, yes, people, no :)
March 2, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree absolutely. Any Dem is better than any repub. Problem is that the repubs WANT to run against Hillary because she will bring out their voters in droves. No repub will cross over to vote for HIllary. If Hillary runs against McCain, he could definitely win, scarey maniac that he is (all they need is a close race and they can flip those Diebolds again like they did in Ohio)
If Obama runs it won't even be close and they can't steal it.
By the way, it is 7:20 PM on March 3rd, and I am so sick of Hillary and her shitty tactics that I don't know if even I could vote for her if she squeaks this out! She is following Richard Perle's advice: He actually advised her to use the politics of fear. What a low-class person she is!
She complains that Barack won't debate her or foreign policy. When did that opportunity appear? Does she mean her simplistic phone ad? She doesn't debate, she throws mud! I am sick of her!
March 2, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, Obama is ‘change and hope’ and Clinton is ‘experience and security.’ Aren’t these just the contentions of each campaign? Obama is hardly any more of a change agent than Clinton and she is no more experienced as president than he.
Well, yes. That's exactly my point.
Do you think really voters know what the hell the "Unitary Executive" means???
No one cares about Rezko, no one cares about what Obama did or didn't hold hearings on. The electorate bases their votes on large "impressions" of the candidates -- the "feeling" they get from them. Vague notions of "trust."
March 2, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don Key asks;
I'm like Bruce, I'm also pretty cynical when it comes to politics.
Regarding your question; Maybe many of the Democrat's leaders are looking at the Unitary Executive idea with envy.
March 3, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, we really need more hearings so the American people can be convinced that Bush is a disaster. That's something that is really, really needed. We really need to drive those polls results from the high 90s--oh, that's right, Georgie's ratings are in the sewer.
And give us the facts on the Rezko. You are alleging that Obama and Rezko bought property together yet nothing--nada, zilch--supports that claim. Even the property seller--a Clinton supporter, BTW--says the house and the lot were sold separately without collusion. But nothing apparently will stop your dreams Larry...so, dream on.
"Things" are going to come up in the General no matter who the candidate is. But now is the time for liberals to take the plunge--like the conservatives did with Reagan. And if you guys can't handle the risk then step back into your padded and safe rooms. It's time to stop playing it so safe and sitting in the corner worrying about what the opposition might do. To He!! with them! Obama has nothing in his biography to be ashamed of--and he certainly has proven that he hires sensible people who get the job done.
March 1, 2008 11:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Larry, can you honestly say that the main reason that European Nations have not deployed more troops is insufficient pressure from a Senate sub committee?
Isn't the real problem that the U.S. essentially undercut the popular support in Europe for NATO operations in Afghanistan by following our disastrous course in Iraq.
If that is the case then Senator Clinton's vote to authorize the war in Iraq seems much more damaging to our efforts in Afghanistan than any inaction in a subcommittee on the part of Senator Obama.
March 2, 2008 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought Obama campaigned for Lamont? Many senators (including both Obama and Clinton, I believe) supported Joe in the primary, but switched to support Lamont in the genereal.
I recently saw a Lamont ad endorsing Obama, that'd be plenty strange if Obama supported the other guy.
March 2, 2008 2:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are right, Jaysin1414. Both Senator Clinton and Obama endorsed Lieberman in the Primary.
Obama endorsed Lamont after he won the primary, which is why Lamont is endorsing Obama, see nedlamont.com for more details.
March 2, 2008 2:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Simplistic.
Pretty much.
No, no, sorry. Lamont didn't get any real support from either.
Do YOU like Lieberman as a tiebreaker?
Maybe Lamont forgives him. I don't.
March 2, 2008 5:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
So you supported Lamont but not his decision to "forgive" Obama.
Obama did support Lamont:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2006/10/26/lamont_gets_lift_from_obama_lieberman_campaigns_with_landrieu/
If you don't like Lieberman as a tie-breaker, your best bet is to support the candidate, Obama, who has the best prospect of helping increase our Senate majority and render Lieberman meaningless.
March 2, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, he sent an email.
Some.
Support.
Actually my best bet is to vote for the Dem nominee, whoever he, or she, is.
Wouldn't you agree?
March 2, 2008 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, yeah, of course I agree that it's better to vote for the Dem nominee than McCain. I thought we were still talking about Obama vs. Clinton. I guess I'm confused.
Of course, I get confused a lot. I can't remember whether Obama lacks "sound political instincts" as Larry contends, or if he was so politically calculating that he avoided being associated with Lamont and pissing off Lieberman.
March 2, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you are confused, you brought up the vote.
Obviously, being from Connecticut means I voted sometime ago, so your "vote for Obama" comment threw me.
I will vote for the Dem nominee when that is determined. I'm very happy to see a close primary. It gets people fired up and out the door to the polls.
I hope it goes down to the wire.
March 2, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Read more carefully. I didn't say "vote for Obama," I said "support Obama."
March 3, 2008 7:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, Obama didn't campaign for Lamont.
He decidedly avoided doing so.
Clinton held a fundraiser for him. That got trampled after her hubby's endorsement of Lieberman on Larry King, but she can say she campaigned for him.
Obama can't make that claim.
March 2, 2008 5:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
workerbee,
You plainly said:
Then you entirely ignore the fact that Hillary Clinton did the same thing you said you were so upset about. So you change your story and now say it was actually because Obama didn't campaign for Lamont.
You are so upset about how people treated Ned Lamont, that you outright dismiss his preference for President?
Seems to me you are, "straining to do some explaining"*.
* For the record those 4 words were originally said by Desi Arnaz aka Ricky Ricardo from TV's I Love Lucy.
March 2, 2008 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
He didn't back Lamont until sometime after the primary, and only when he got into trouble in the polls. I was here. You weren't.
I haven't changed my story. Obama actively campaigned for Joe Lieberman in Connecticut. He actually came to the state and campaigned. He didn't do that for Lamont. See the difference?
As for Clinton, she did not actively campaign for Lieberman in the state, although Bill did, but she did actively campaign for Lamont in the State. She was also the first Dem to say she would NOT support Lieberman if he ran as an Independent.
Ned Lamonts preference for President was Chris Dodd. You might want to keep that in mind. My own was for Edwards. I'm sure we both voted accordingly in the primaries.
I can't say that being slammed for supporting Lamont by Obama's followers endears me much to your candidate. I liked Dodd, he was my second choice, but I don't need to agree with him on who he chooses to endorse or forgive. Last time I checked, that decision is still up to me.
And that would be, "straining to do some 'splaining."
March 2, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, according to the Boston Globe article Obama sent his e-mail supporting Lamont in late October when Lamont was well behind Lieberman in the polls.
Kind of a strange thing to do for someone who was politically calculating and really just avoiding any conflict with Lieberman. But maybe it has something to do with why in March 2008 Lieberman is supporting McCain and Lamont is supporting Obama.
March 2, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah.
Now do you get why it was an important election? What really got to me, as well as a lot of other people, was here you have this rising star in the Democratic Party, who started out being against the war, backing a clearly pro-war hawk.
'splain that, Lucy.
March 2, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ow Ricky! That is easy. One sitting Senator almost always supports another sitting Senator. They are politicians, after all.
Of course you have a choice in who you choose. I hope you remember that you were the one who started the discussion about who endorsed who by saying, "our disappointment that Obama backed Lieberman."
Indeed it is not your choice I take exception with, it is your argument about the Lamont endorsement and its implications for the presidential primary. You say you are against Obama and for Clinton, because Lamont was not supported by Obama. This is illogical for two reasons:
1. As was already pointed out Obama and Clinton have essentially the same record for endorsing Lamont
2. In presenting your Lamont endorsement argument you completely ignore the point that Lamont supports Obama.
Indeed, nothing could be more damaging to your argument for withholding support for Obama based on his Lamont endorsement record than the fact Lamont himself is endoring Obama.
As far as I see it, that is.
You are right about one thing, workerbee. It is "straining to do some 'splaining."
On that point I will concede.
March 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't back Hillary.
I don't back Obama, either.
Hillary doesn't run on an antiwar platform. Obama does.
Is there a difference then? To me there is. It's one thing to SAY you are for something, it's another to DO it.
What I remember is at least on the issue on being antiwar, Obama blew a chance to support his words with actions.
Maybe that is something you can overlook. I can't. Integrity matters.
March 2, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was here, too.
And this:
leaves the impression that Obama campaigned for Lieberman in the general election, which he clearly did not.
It was disappointing that Obama didn't make a more forceful effort on behalf of the "anti-war" candidate, I'll agree. But I wouldn't call Clinton's support very enthusiastic, either. She held a fundraiser and threw some cash his way. The most well known Democrat. The most prominent Democrat who actually campaigned ahrd for Lamont was John Edwards.
Neither Obama or Clinton did the Democratic Party any favors by their relatively lukewarm support of Lamont. It was disappointing then, and it's still disappointing now.
March 2, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is true. I voted for Edwards in the primary, but oh well. I have been at some pains to explain my objections. I'm not trying to mislead anyone. Obama did what he did.
My point is that Obama is running on an antiwar platform. That makes his actions a bit more incomprehensible, and he should be held accountable for them. I don't agree that in these sorts of issues should be glossed over. You don't think his support of Lieberman will hurt him in the General?
It also makes me doubt his apparent sincerity. Deeds always trump words.
March 2, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are right. He wasn't there to drive the bus into the ditch. Hillary did. Now they are standing around trying to find the best way to get it out.
Lets not forget - HILLARY'S VOTE HELPED DRIVE THE BUS INTO THE DITCH IN THE FIRST PLACE
March 3, 2008 10:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and I did address Lamont backing Obama. He originally backed Dodd. When Dodd dropped out and endorsed Obama, so did Lamont. I'd say "that's politics."
It is certainly not a hard and fast rule that other senators will back a sitting Senator. Obama didn't just do that. He went above and beyond and campaigned in the state for Ol' Joe.
If he'd done the same for Lamont, I would consider overlooking his primary support, but he was too busy running for president to stop for an hour or two in Connecticut, even though the train he was on passed through.
Hillary, who can not be considered to be "antiwar" did campaign for Lamont. Furthermore, she stuck her neck out before the primary results and said she'd not back Joe if he ran as an Independent. Something that was against the Dem consensus at the time.
Now I suppose a shallow look at this campaign would justify the snarky tone, but frankly, Joe Lieberman has turned out to be quite a problem for the Democrats, hasn't he.
March 2, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and since you seem to be in the business of second guessing, perhaps you would 'splain to me why it is that Obama would not ACTIVELY back an antiwar candidate until AFTER a primary.
I thought that was important to him.
March 2, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good grief! Get over yourself. Obama came into the state to attend the State Democratic Party meeting as a speaker. He acknowledged Lieberman and gave a one sentence "support" statement. That's far from campaigning as I would understand the term. BTW, Lamont was also at the dinner.
After the primary, Obama sent $5000 to Lamont from his PAC and e-mailed anyone with an address in the state encouraging their support for Lamont.
Now, where you campaign workers got your shorts in a knot was LATE IN LAMONT'S CAMPAIGN, you wanted Obama to kind of drop by while he was going to and from book tour events. He was unable to attend any of these last minute contortions by Lamont's apparently inept campaign staff, supported by Lamont's volunteer folks.
And since that time the volunteers have bought the nonsense hook, line, and sinker and Obama just didn't do enough. Here's a reality check. Lamont didn't do enough to win his own race.
And, frankly, McCaskill worked her a$$ campaigning in Missouri; scheduled time with Obama with enough advance notice; Obama showed up and campaigned and held fund-raisers. AND, Obama held a rally for McCaskill volunteers only after the polls closed--which was a classy thing to do.
Lamont or McCaskill--you decide. McCaskill worked her a$$ off to win that Senate race and she handled her calendar effectively. Lamont did none of those things effectively.
Hold this bitterness over crap as long as you want workerbee. Makes no difference to me. And Obama will be our candidate even with you ever-ending sour attitude.
March 2, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two Words:
Joe Lieberman.
Claire McCaskill didn't have a longtime Senator running against her AFTER the primary. She did get a lot of screen time, though. The hoopla over Micheal J. Fox and Rush Limbaugh was enough of a draw. Much better use of Obama's time, obviously. Best for Obama, that is, not necessarily best for the Dems. Oh well, who cares that he had a chance to stand up for his beliefs and failed to do so?
Just us 'sour' ex-Lamont heads and about half the country.
March 2, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
BS. Claire won the primary easily and ran a general election against the favored incumbent, Senator Jim Talent.
March 2, 2008 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
She faced a no-name challenger, not a 4 term senator. Not exactly comparable.
If you don't like me correcting you, try being accurate.
March 2, 2008 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, Obama hardly dropped by that dinner. It was a fundraiser and he went to endorse Lieberman especially.
Wow, Joe must have been special to him. He turned down 199 other people.
If you bother to click on the link, you'll see that Obama "worked the crowd" with Lieberman. That is campaigning for him insofar as the word means anything.
I just want to correct any misimpression your, er, robust post might have left with those not familiar with Connecticut politics.
March 2, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's campaign neophytes that really get to me. Challenging a long-time incumbent is not an easy task.
Lamont won the primary. Then he and his campaign (which apparently included you) were boring, lackluster, and failed to win. Instead of taking the blame, you want to farm it off on someone else.
You're ridiculously amusing.....
March 2, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suppose it is a tad boring to be truthful, and humble.
Lamont certainly had a tougher row to hoe then McCaskill. He had to basically run against Lieberman twice--a long term senator, and up until the Iraq war, a good one. McCaskill only ran against Talent, a Republican, once. How you can even imagine there's any sort of comparison is a puzzle. McCaskill ran against some no-name challenger. in the primary. Of course she won easily. She also had been governor, so she had great name recognition.
Even with the boost her campaign got with Obama and Fox, she barely beat Talent, a Republican.
Lamont started from scratch.He ran against a popular senator TWICE. Got that? It's a basic fact, try to absorb it.
Given all these facts, the only amusing thing I see is your arrogance and your idiocy.
If you don't think Lieberman and Obamas friendship will come up in the general, that's your problem. I do not think your overwrought, emotional, and poor grasp of the facts will help you much against the GOP.
March 2, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
"More than a passing friendship" with Ayers?
If more means less, you are spot on.
Look, if Larry Johnson or his sidekick, Taylor Marsh, lived in an alternate universe in which Obama had held a subcommittee hearing or two, they would be arguing the hearings were just sham political maneuvers.
If there had been no Rezko involvement in the strip of property, we still would be hearing about Rezko's "more than a passing friendship . . . "
Larry, we get it. We just happen to think that "Keating Five" (and numerous subsequent examples of actual favors for political donors) has more heft than Rezko. Iraq war cheer leading means more to people than a subcommittee hearing. And McCain has "more than a passing friendship" with George W. Bush, a war criminal with more blood on his hands than Ayers ever even dreamed of.
Prefer Hillary if you like. But you and Marsh don't need to be the Rush and Coulter of the left.
March 2, 2008 2:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Larry,
You point out that Obama is a politician, and like every politician does not have an absolutely impeccable record. He could have done some things better. But this race is now down to only two politicians. So we're in the realm of comparison shopping. Here is the choice:
On the one hand, there is a politician who was willing to sign off on sending thousands of US soldiers and many, many thousands of innocent Iraqis to their deaths - that's deaths - for the sake of feeding her white hot political ambition; a politician who was so eager to bomb the crap out of the former Yugoslavia, and help in the project of turning a Kosovo drug gang into a bullshit liberation army that could then be molded into US client stooges that would accept a US military base in the Balkans, that she called Bill Clinton several times from Africa to urge him to do it; a politician who took to the streets of New York with a bunch of fanatics during the Israeli-Lebanon war to jeer the UN and cheer on Israeli war crimes, and thunder threats at Syria and Iran along with her neoconservative fellow-travelers who were were anxious to expand the war, as international diplomats were desperately working to bring about a cease fire in Lebanon; a politician who has never failed to deliver the groceries for Aipac, no matter what's on the list; and a politician who professes regrets about Iraq out of one side of her mouth, while voting George Bush a license to do the same thing in Iran.
In addition, this is a politician who, along with her manipulative grab-ass husband, has a fifteen year record of lying and dissembling to the American public, and even now practices the art of expressing manufactured tears of self-pity to land votes.
On the other hand, there is a politician who might or might not have been involved in some shady real estate deal, and failed to call a hearing that perhaps he should have called, but seems to have a more sane and balanced view of the world, decent moral boundaries when it comes to life and death decisions, and a genuinely progressive global vision and instincts as opposed to phony-progressive international scams covering up for the criminal element in the US power elite, the people Hillary Clinton has made it her business to serve in return for political advancement.
Sorry, but I think I'll take my chances on the guy who didn't call a subcommittee hearing as