Conflict of Interest
Starting next Tuesday night, the interest of all of the TV News networks will diverge radically from the interest of the American Public. It will be in the interest of the networks to keep the Democratic Race going for at least another six weeks. Their viewership and ad revenues have never been higher. If the Democratic Party moved to support Obama with the same unity the Republicans moved to McCain's side, they would save themselves millions that could be used to fight McCain. And also save us from the soul damage the Cinton's scorched earth policies (sending pictures to Drudge) do to all of us.
In the early 20th Century, there were "time outs" in the summer for the Presidential campaigns where strategists and ideas could move to the fore and the candidate did not have to work the crowd every day. If on Tuesday, Obama wins 2 of the 4 states (with one being Ohio or Texas), then Hillary should step down for the sake of the party.




















I think you should step down. We already have a dozen assorted Obama wingbat commentaators. It's boring. Josh's numbers are down and you ain't helping. You're all little clones of eachother whinning about he stupidest most banal matters.
Milquetoast. The lot of you.
How about you step down in favor of a bright, young, inspiring Biden supporter? It's the 'merican thang to do. Hopefully a hispanic or an oriental, or a woman commentator.
Shouldn't you give someone else that chance?
Last time I checked, a close primary had the benefit of firing people up and getting them to the polls. What amazes me is how little faith you Obama supporters show in him.
I bet you thought the Giants should have conceeded the superbowl before the second half got played.
Let democracy be. If you want to have just one candidate, I could suggest other places where that's the rule, rather than the exception. You'd fit right in.
February 27, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.
February 28, 2008 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ignore the troll.
My question is: When will our candidates figure out that they're being played by the media, trumping up controversies out of what would be otherwise be insignificant issues, exclusively for the purpose of inflating ratings?
I'd like for that day to come. We've already gotten to the point where that sort of media coverage results in scorched-earth elections. Eventually, even the candidates won't be able to derive any significant benefit from the media coverage, particularly as so many other information media develop.
February 27, 2008 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've been posting here over two-and-a-half years.. Before that I sent Josn monry for his blog. I have always admired his evenhandedness. It's valuable to me.
How long have you been here? It hasn't escaped my notice that when you showed up, a lot of people got bored and left.
Coincidence?
Likely not. Everyone has to hear enough kiss-ass, me too, dialogue in the workplace. Post something interesting.
February 27, 2008 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Owned. I put that out there to see if you'd take the bait, and you did.
I've never seen you make a single productive post - only snarky criticism and the equivalent of "shut up." If that's what your two and a half years here has been worth, it's not worth much.
Let's see, you'll respond with some equivalent of "you're touchy" or "what color is the sky in your world." Fine with me. You can have the last word, for whatever it's worth.
February 27, 2008 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Furion:
Do you have a point? Are you concerned that the professor has slandered the Clinton campaign without attribution? Do you believe that Hillary Clinton should bow out depending on the results next week? Or do you just wish to insult workerbee? What is your point Furion?
February 28, 2008 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Settle down, trollboy.
February 28, 2008 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, with the Democratic Party rules on delegate selection being proportional to the primary vote percentages of the candidates, it is almost impossible for Clinton to overtake Obama unless she wins Ohio and Texas. And, it is very difficult for her even if she does win those two states even with 60% of the vote in each, and improbability. If she wins Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania by 60-40%, she still trails Obama but by very, very few delegates. So, it is the Pennsylvania primary that will be the last contest.
I don't think Clinton should give it up yet. The attention the Democratic race is getting now can only benefit the winner, presumably Obama at this stage. Any problems that this protracted race cause will be if the two get really bitter and start mud slinging, but they haven't shown any desire to do that so far.
February 28, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know, hoppy. Right now the delegate count stands at 1377/Obama and 1279/Clinton. She could take any of the big three and still be within hailing distance, especially with Florida, Michigan and the superdelegates (if Obama stops trying to peel them away). The democrats are going to have to seat Florida and Michigan because they can't win the election without them. If they refuse to seat them, they are going to have two really, really pissed off state parties. They need the money and the state organizations to win in November. That's just a fact of politics.
February 28, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I couldn't disagree more. There is not a zero-sum battle between primary campaigning and general campaigning. The contest keeps Democrats engaged and paying attention, while distracting the media from Republicans' flag pinning, pledge reciting, bland, matching color wearing 24-7 pseudopatriotic pony show.
The primary election lays groundwork for the general. If the nominee had been anointed on Super Tuesday, nobody would've bothered to campaign in Texas or Ohio. Come September, Democrats would've been cobbling together an organization from scratch.
Besides, McCain the campaign finance reformer is up against his spending limit, unless he breaks the campaign finance law. Now is the perfect time for Democrats to reaffirm their support of the Feingold Law, because the other cosponsor wants nothing to do with it.
February 28, 2008 2:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
also save us from the soul damage the Cinton's scorched earth policies (sending pictures to Drudge) do to all of us.
----------------------------------------------------
Conflict of interest is a pretty good title for this post. There's no evidence that the Clinton camp sent the pictures to drudge, in fact all my reading leads me to believe the didn't. And I haven't seen anything that even approaches a scorched earth policy. Your obvious bias and willingness to spin the facts makes your conclusions suspect.
That being said, as a Clinton supporter, I think if Clinton can't win Texas and Ohio there's no point in her going on. If she decides to go onto PA I don't see any harm in it though it is a bit of a wasted effort.
February 28, 2008 3:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Professor Taplin:
The post above you by Professor Sleeper bemoans an article in the New Republic about purported race baiting by the Obama campaign. We all know that the article has to be completely untrue because Senator Obama is different and he would never, ever, ever engage in campaign trickery, and none of his staff would do so either. And his name is not Clinon.
But you, on the other hand, a professor who should be subject to journalistic standards, assert that the Clinton campaign engaged in race baiting this week when you assert, without evidence, that the Clinton campaign supplied a photo Senator Obama to Matt Drudge.
I see only one person guilty of race baiting right now, and that person is you. Professor, the fact that this is a blog does not divest you of your responsibility to follow simple rules of credibility, and frankly honor. You have failed.
By the way, here's what another blogger, Bob Somerby, had to say about Josh's decision to jump the gun on Monday and parrot the Obama campaign's knee jerk (could never have been politically calculated because it's the Obama campaign)allegation that the Clinton campaign was in bed with Matt Drudge. . .because Drudge said so.
http://dailyhowler.com/dh022608.shtml
Professor, I think a retraction is in order, or not. But the thing shall speak for itself. Your
move.
Oh and by the way, I voted for Hillary Clinton but I agree with your thesis that she should bow out if she fails to win both Ohio and Texas next week. And I will be Senator Obama if he is the nominee. That doesn't excuse your conduct in accusing the Clinton campaign of bedding down with Matt Drudge.
February 28, 2008 8:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
That should read "And I will support Senator Obama if he is the nominee".
February 28, 2008 8:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well said, Bruce.
February 28, 2008 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
You write: "The post above you by Professor Sleeper bemoans an article in the New Republic about purported race baiting by the Obama campaign. We all know that the article has to be completely untrue because Senator Obama is different and he would never, ever, ever engage in campaign trickery, and none of his staff would do so either."
I wrote: "Obama is shrewd, and no doubt he's not pure; but if Wilentz has something to show us, let him show it, not pass off his speculations as charges sanctioned by the judgment of history."
February 29, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has an obligation to her supporters to continue her candidacy to the convention if she has a possible shot at victory or even at winning concessions for herself such as a position in an Obama administration or a senate majority leadership post. She really needs to ignore Obama supporters who call for her to drop out. This is still a close primary and Hillary has a lot of supporters, like me, who should be represented at the convention.
February 28, 2008 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is a tad disengenuous - they didn't stop campaigning so "ideas could come to the fore", they stopped campaigning because 1., it was too damned hot and 2., it was time to concentrate on amassing enough party ballots to win the nomination. That was harder work than pumping up crowds, in fact, that's when politicians really got down to business.
It wasn't until after 1968 that primary elections and caucuses became the main mechanism for choosing a nominee. In 1980, the last really contentious party convention, Ted Kennedy attempted to peel away Carter's delegates to seize the nomination by floor vote.
For years now, the public has tuned out the conventions, the chief criticism being that "they are coronations, not conventions" and "everything is settled before hand". Now we have perhaps a contested convention and these same people are demanding that a candidate step aside "for the good of the party". (Where did we hear that last? Oh, yes, when Al Gore contested the 2000 election - "he should step down for the good of the country.") If Obama loses Texas and Ohio should he "step down for the good of the party?"
I am thoroughly sick and tired of my fellow democrats blaming a dem. candidate for "a scorched earth policy" and "dirty tricks" in campaigns. Have they been living under rocks for the last fifteen years? Which party has "dirty tricksters who have tv contracts, columns in newspapers and are publicly recognized as "dirty tricksters" and "scorched earthers?" Roger Stone, Karl Rove, Allen Raymond (who has the chutzpah to run a blog here) Steve Schmidt, the swiftboaters to name only a few, and yet we have democrats so foolish and short sighted that they are willing to buy into the crap that the dems are the dirty tricksters and scorched earthers and then pass it on as though it was truth. I'd ask if these people can get any dumber, but I already know the answer.
February 28, 2008 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bev and Destor:
I have been preparing for the prospect of Hillary Clinton losing in Texas and have been trying to move into the "time to unify the party" phase, which of course will have to be accompanied by the nauseating prospect of all kinds of Hilllary bashers all of sudden saying nice things about her (e.g. read Gail Collins Op-ed in the NYT this morning). Ich!
Bev, don't know who you're voting for but Destor is an HRC supporter and now he has me thinking that, maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not fair to the millions of Democrats who have supported her candidacy if she bows out before the convention.
I respect you both, so maybe HRC should stick around some, even if she loses. I'm fundamentally a democrat before I'm a Democrat.
Of course, maybe she'll win in Texas, and then, on to Denver for sure! In any event, my views on HRC will not be made on the the basis of what this professor has to say, as he smears HRC with unsubstantiated Drudge-drivel and probably thinks it's OK because this is the blogosphere.
February 28, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Bslev. I just don't see the rush to end things. I know the campaign has gotten testy but the candidates really aren't destroying each other or the party and the race is close even though Obama has pulled ahead and seems to control the momentum. Really finishing the race might give Obama and Hillary supporters enough time to reach a consensus in Denver and that will just make us stronger when it comes time to take on McCain in the general.
I can promise that if the situation were reversed I'd not be calling for Obama to drop out. I think it's dirty pool to use the "for the good of the party" tactic against your fellow party members. I felt it was used unfairly against Edwards early on as well.
February 28, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Bruce. I'm very wary of those who advise "dropping out for the good of the party" - the last time we heard that was in 2000 - and it was coming mainly from the so-called liberal pundits. For all this talk that she's "lost" the battle, the delegate count is very close. When you count Michigan and Florida, she's ahead. They will seat Michigan and Florida, they'll have no choice if they want to win the general election. Frankly, I don't like the system of the small states going first in the primaries. A fairer way would be a rotation of some sort. I understand the reasoning behind this system, but I don't think it's a smart way to do it.
February 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, a few months ago people thought McCain should drop out too.
I love how you falsely accuse HRC of sending those photos to Drudge. That's been denied. Those are AP photos anyone could have gotten them. But because you are so poisoned by Clinton hatred you have no ethics and will continue to make false allegations.
I concede Obama may get the nomination and I have worked 20 hours a week for every candidate in the past but you Obama supporters are so disgusting and unethical and sleazy, I have no desire to volunteer for his campaign. After all, there's something about him that is bringing out such abysmal disgusting behavior - unlike anything I have seen on this side of the aisle before.
Sure, I expect this from Bush-lovers and the GOP cult, but not from Democrats. There's something wrongat the core of the campaign if you and the other people are representative of his supporters.
February 28, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay Jonathan, you've been thoroughly rebuked here in the comments. Any chance you'll answer some of the objections to your post, or are you just here to lecture us?
February 28, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Irony of ironies! The professor lists two favorite books in his profile, and one is "The Rise of American Democracy" by Sean Wilentz. Wilentz is the guy who Professor Sleeper seeks to destroy in his column above. Who is this Professor Wilentz, a shill for the Clinton campaign per Professor "I hate Hillary" Sleeper, or a distinguished academic who is one of the favorite authors of the distinguished guest professor from USC? This is all too intellectually challenging for me.
February 28, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Seeks to destroy"
I don't know that I'd use such harsh language to describe Mr. Sleeper's previous tirade. More along the lines of frantic flailing with masturbatory overtones and indications of malice.
March 1, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excuse my repeated entries, but I just noted that, for whatever reason, the front page of TPM includes once again the earlier versions of the Drudge story from this past Monday. Excluded are the subsequent denials of involvement by the Clinton camp, and included are the initial less than satisfactory denials by the Clinton camp. I don't understand why this material from last Monday is back up, and why it doesn't include the latest versions of the story that set forth the Clinton campaign's assertion that it had nothing to do with the distribution of the Obama photo (an assertion accepted by Senator Obama in Tuesday's debate).
Why?
February 28, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Update: Not there now.
February 28, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Hillary should step down for the sake of the party"
For the sake of Obama you mean, right? I don't see how a prolonged contest which draws constant and extensive media coverage (a lot of it free), and drowns our Republican drivel, can be harmful for the Dems. It is arithmetically obvious that neither candidate can possibly get a required majority with pledged delegates alone, so its obvious that the superdelegates will be tiebreakers , exactly as they have been designed to be - for the sake of the party, BTW.
The delay is harmful to Obama, because his charmed existence as a media darling, who mesmerizes huge crowds of devoted followers and gets applauded for sneezing, is thankfully ending, not a moment too soon. I guess that by mid-May the supers (i.e. Dem elected officials and party executives) will have a better idea of the risks and rewards of HRC vs Obama as the party's standard-bearer, and would be able to make more intelligent choice. If Obama's bubble doesn't burst by then (which means that he'll succeed in the late primaries as well as in the early ones)– more power to him, and good luck in November. The supers are dependent themselves on having a better candidate at the top of the ticket, and will not act to harm their own chances. If the bubble will burst – Dem party will be better off for HRC staying in the race.
A popular argument - what's democratic (small d) about that - is easily rebuffed by 2 points:
1. Most supers are democratically elected
2. They matter only as tie-breakers for more or less tied election.
February 28, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I said in a reply on another post, I felt like I walked into a hostile bar yesterday. I love a good argument as much as anyone, but I tend to like a little civility in the dialogue.
I don't really think I need to go through the litany of Clinton surrogates throwing dirt at Obama (he's a Muslim, he's a drug dealer,etc). Bill Clinton himself said that if Hillary doesn't win both Texas and Ohio, "it's over". The only point I was trying to make was that Chris Matthews and Wolf Blitzer are just as invested in keeping the semblance of a "tight race" going as Mark Penn.
If you really want Obama to spend millions of dollars fighting Hillary for the next two months when its mathematically impossible for her to win, then my guess is you are rooting for John McCain.
February 28, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
The point you were making is obscured and made trivial by the hostile digs at Clinton and subsequently the readers of your blog. For Clinton supporters, your rather arrogant and uncivil remarks were considered hostile.
No surrogate accused Obama of being a drug dealer, the campaign did not send pictures to Drudge, no campaign worker said he was a Muslim, (and why do you call Muslim, "dirt"? I don't think it is such a good idea for an Obama surrogate to openly write that he thinks Muslims are dirt) and I don't believe that the Clintons use any kind of "scorched earth policy" in campaigning - that's exactly the same canard that was used against Gore.
I also pointed out to you that it is mathmatically possible for Clinton to win. I am working very hard to make sure a democrat wins the general election, but frankly, you and other dems make it very difficult everytime you parrot the press memes and burn bridges before we ever cross them. If Clinton does win the nomination, you're making it that much more difficult with your baseless accusations and characterizations for her to win the general election. If you make accusations you had better be able to back them up, because sure as hell there is always someone in the blogosphere who knows more about it than you do.
February 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jon,
Thanks for jumping into the comments. I suggest to you that saying that people who disagree with you and who just want their candidate to represent them at their party convention are McCain supporters isn't exactly the most civil way to respond.
But maybe we shouldn't be so hung up on whether people are civil or not. Let's deal with the facts -- Hillary Clinton has millions of supporters, nearly as many as Obama does. We shouldn't be left out in the cold so that you that your favorite candidate can claim an early victory.
The primary must continue because some of us are going to have a hard time getting behind Obama if we feel like Hillary was pushed out before her time. We can deal with McCain later.
February 28, 2008 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Professor Tapin says: "...my guess is you are rooting for John McCain."
Is it weird to pick up a sickeningly fascist vibe whenever someone questions another's loyalty? Call me petty, but I get the same feeling reading stuff like that as I do when a Georgia congressman questions Obama's loyalty to the nation because he doesn't wear an enamel flag lepel pin (made in China).
February 29, 2008 9:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, that feel too. Accusations of treachery always scare me because they rely on the notion that you've strayed from some "true path."
Like the Georgia congressman with Obama's pin. His only argument was that "everyone else wears one."
February 29, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jon Taplin: "but I tend to like a little civility in the dialogue......
If you really want Obama to spend millions of dollars fighting Hillary for the next two months when its mathematically impossible for her to win, then my guess is you are rooting for John McCain."
So Jon, where is your civility then? I'm rooting for a good Democratic administration, hence for Hillary (that's IMHO of course). It's mathematically impossible for either of them to win without superdelegates, and quite possible for either to win with superdelegates. I happen to believe that Hillary has much better chance of beating McCain, but I don't ascribe underhanded motives to you, i.e. I don't say that you root for Obama against Hillary just like Kristol, Novak, Morris, Brooks, Mathews, Noonan, Rove, etc. in order to assure Republican win in November.
February 28, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I happen to believe that Hillary has much better chance of beating McCain..."
I don't want to get involved in a flame war, but this struck my eye. Could you explain your reasoning, please? It just seems obvious to me - I could be wrong, of course - that Hillary's negatives are sky-high, and that her nomination would ensure a huge turnout of Republican voters in November (voters who aren't, in many cases, very happy with McCain, but who would absolutely work to defeat Hillary Clinton).
Most Republicans will vote against Obama, too, no doubt. But nothing would energize and revitalize a discouraged and divided GOP like having Hillary Clinton to beat. After all, that's one thing ALL Republicans agree on. And considering that the polls seem to be consistent in indicating that Obama does much better against McCain than Clinton,... I'm just wondering on what you're basing your belief in the opposite. Is there any evidence I've overlooked, or is just faith?
February 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
WCG,
See e.g. this post:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/blogs/wolcott/2008/02/beware-of-the-s.html
and the one it links to. Think why Noonan, Kristol, Rove, Morris, Wills, etc. are rooting for Obama. Remember that at this point Dukakis was up 15-20%. Clinton's numbers for the general can only go up, Obama's - only down. Race card playing and charmed existence that helped him in the Dem primaries will not work against McCain.
"nothing would energize and revitalize a discouraged and divided GOP like having Hillary Clinton to beat" - she wins in upstate NY counties that voted for Bush - she knows her stuff. And if you think that voting against unqualified untested black Muslim, librul, terrist, black, Muslim, librul, terrist will not unify and energize GOP - think again. Plus, Obama just for the last few days started facing MSM scrutiny, and quite lightly at that. Lets have the race on for a few more weeks, and lets have BOTH our candidates really vetted.
OK, more precisely, IMHO Obama offers a small chance of a huge win and a huge chance of a huge loss, Clinton - a good chance of a good win. Feeling lucky? I don't, not after the last 8 years.
February 29, 2008 2:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
WCG,
a Republican professional responds to your question:
http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/why-im-afraid-of-the-clintons/index.html?ref=opinion
February 29, 2008 3:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would argue that the coordinated attacks on Obama yesterday from McCain, the RNC and George Bush are proof that they would much rather run against Hillary. If they really thought Obama was the easier candidate to beat, they would keep quiet until he had sewn up the nomination.
February 29, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
You need to make a better argument than that.
March 1, 2008 11:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Professor Sleeper:
Sorry my friend but I was not referring to whether you had put in the appropriate caveats, etc. so as not to betray bias. My point was larger and grander, to wit, that there are many, many folks around these here parts who are so enamored of Obama that they could never accept the possibility that Professor Wilentz accurately pinned some race baiting charges on some of Obama's political team.
Now I come from the world of labor union politics; it's a more rough and tumble world to say the least and I carry with me a strong presumption that most politicians are just that. In short, I think it is laughable for folks to posit that either campaign has at all times avoided the use of race for political advantage.
Now if you think you preserved objectivity with your caveat that Obama is not pure as the driven snow, then so be it. I think your reaction to Wilentz's article, an article which I felt was over the top, was also completely over the top and unbecoming of someone of your stature. But that's just me; you seemed, well you seemed downright shrill and ultimately unpersuasive. I haven't read the comments in your thread recently but I would bet (if I were a betting man) that most of your readers would disagree with me. That's cool.
And, finally, your comment was all about you, but my comment, the one you address, was mainly about Jon's unsubstantiated and discredited claim that the Clinton team circulated the photo of Obama in Somali garb this past Monday. And I cited to the blog of another left of center blogger, Bob Somerby, to support what I was saying. I would anticipate that your ire at Jon for beginning his stint with such unsubstantiated charges would be at least as intense, nay shrill, as it was with respect to Professor Wilentz. That would show you to be the unbiased writer you claim to be, and would sure as heck trump the kind of caveats you're resting on now, i.e., Obama is hardly perfect, but. . . But indeed.
February 29, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know what the difference between a Canadian Liberal and an American Liberal is.
The American liberal just can't wait to surrender. It's all he thinks about. Surrender and self sacrifice for the good of all. The highest virtue is giving up. Al Gore surrenders in 2000 for the good of the nation. Lieberman surrenders in 2000 because he loves the Republicans. John Kerry surrenders in 2004, after all his 'count every vote' talk. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid surrender in congress every chance they get, day after day... for the good of the country, or so the media won't think badly of them. And now Hillary should 'surrender for the good of the party.'
I'm not a fan of Hillary. And I have my doubts about Obama. I'm not sure that either of them have the guts to be what America needs. On the other hand, either of them are miles better than the geriatric madman.
This whole notion that the two of them shouldn't battle it out is absurd. Coronations haven't done the Democratic party any good. Let's face it - John Kerry was a coronation, how'd that turn out? Al Gore's coronation as the nominee... did that work out well?
As long as Obama and Hillary are contesting each other, the media is paying attention to the Democrats. McCain can wallow around in his own pool of growing scandals, there's nothing else to talk about with McCain.
But while Hillary and Obama are going at it... Democrats ideas and Democrats policies are front and center. Its about people, not scandals, judgement, not mistakes.
People love a contest. I don't know why these passive aggressive surrender-monkey american liberals are so terrified. Let there be a contest, and let the best black man or white woman win.
March 1, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post and duly noted Valdron. Thanks.
March 1, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
You do realize that I actually am kind of an obnoxous dickhead?
March 1, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh totally Valdron, but sometimes it takes one to know one.
March 2, 2008 8:14 AM | Reply | Permalink