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More on Charlie Wilson's War

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COMMENT BY LARRY JOHNSON.  I have received some back channel emails from several friends–retired military and intelligence officers–who knew Charlie Wilson or worked on the Afghan Task Force in some form or fashion.  Folks have different views and thoughts.  Here’s a great piece from a dear friend who served with U.S. special operations forces and had a distinguished military career. This is his take.

Larry,  OK, I’ve seen the film and the History Channel documentary, and I’ve read the Criles book, and as mentioned earlier I was involved in part of this.

As far as the movie goes, I liked it very much.   It’s very well done and nicely captured the feeling of that period in time and the politics of the situation.   I think there are some time compressions, and some things were deleted, but it’s still worthwhile.  I particularly liked Tom Hanks as Charlie Wilson, except he made him smarter, funnier and more sympathetic than he actually was.  


Now to the grisly details.   After FBNC I finagled a job on the Army Staff.   I’d been operating off the books for almost five years and with a new wife and two children, I needed to get back into the mainstream of the Army.   Regreening it was called, and for those who’d served at FBNC for any length of time, at that time it was mandatory if you ever wanted to be promoted again.   And I had decided I did.   I was assigned to Strategy, Plans and Policy Division (or Directorate) as the Africa guy, but at that time I had absolutely nothing to do with Afghanistan, Pakistan or anything else in Central Asia.   I’d been there about four or five months when the XO came in my office and dropped the file on my desk.   Until I opened it I had no idea anything of that nature was going on.   The file dealt primarily with the STINGER xfers.   Until I saw the documentary I had no knowledge of the arms buys from Egypt or how we’d been supporting the Muj to that point.

Within a week, ten days at most, the first major problem appeared.  We had already sold STINGER Basic to the Pakistanis and they were having trouble with it.  Soviet acft were crossing into Pakistani airspace in pursuit of the Muj and the Paks couldn’t hit them.   Since STINGER was in the process of being fielded in our Army, and had never been tried in combat before the Paks started firing at Soviet border crossers, the credibility of the whole program was at stake and the Army had to respond to the Pak’s concerns.

A friend of mine named Jerry Fry, also on the Army Staff, was the Pakistan desk officer.   Jerry had been Chief of the Army Section in the ODRP (the MILGROUP).   He had some of the languages, knew the organization and personalities of the Pakistani Army, and because of his assignment on the ARSTAFF was the logical guy to pull together the response.  He quickly put together what amounted to a STINGER MTT and flew to Pakistan to see what was wrong.   He took with him several drones, a REDEYE, one or more STINGERs and a trained gunner.   A demo was arranged at their air defense school (if memory serves it was on the coast~on the Arabian Sea) and in the hands of a competent operator it was quickly shown that there was nothing wrong with the missile.   Subsequent investigation showed the problem was lack of training and maintenance, and an organizational problem in that the missiles (MANPADS-Man Portable Air Defense Systems) had been taken away from the Chief of Air Defense and given to the frontline corps commanders.  Without a proponent the missiles quickly deteriorated and the gunners lost proficiency.   The Pakistanis had just absorbed this lesson when the first shootdown in Afghanistan occurred.   Engineer Captain somebody (I remembered his name as Abdullah, but in the documentary your friend Milt Bearden says his name was Jaffer or Gaffer.  I’d go with Bearden.   I wasn’t in theater at the time and didn’t hear about it for at least two days after it happened).  At any rate he crept out into the airfield at Jalalabad (as I recall) and torched at least two Hinds.   The movie shows three.   I’m fine with that too.   Any whole number is fine with me, but that shootdown demonstrated to our Congressional critics the system worked and had utility in that tactical environment, and I think it showed the Muj that we had given them a good weapons system.  It also embarrassed the Pakistanis in that the Afghans could shoot down a Soviet plane, but they couldn’t.

Inspite of the positive jolt the first shootdowns gave all of us, there were still problems.   The Muj hadn’t really mastered the system yet, and were very much inclined to fire out of range.   In the early days if they could see it they’d shoot at it.  The missile only had a slant range of 5-8 miles, and could be tricked by a snowbank or a brushfire. The solution to the first problem was provided by MG Donald Infante, then the boss at our Air Defense Center and School.   Within a week or two he and his staff developed a simple template affair to be worn around the neck on a lanyard.   It looked like a short ruler and had three or four different sized holes in it. When held at arms length each hole corresponded to one of the Soviet frontline acft.   If the gunner could identify the type of acft he was looking at all he had to do was hold the template up to the sky and when the wings or the rotor blades touched both sides of the MiG-21 hole or the Hind hole it was in range.

The solution to the other problem(s) involved better training for the trainers.   The facility designed to train MANPADS gunners was called a Moving Target Simulator, an instrumented dome-like affair that simulated various engagement scenarios likely to be faced by a gunner in a NATO environment.   They cost about $1M apiece in 1985 dollars, and at the time I believe there were only three in the World, one in Germany, one somewhere in PACOM(?), and the one at Fort Bliss.   Infante made the one at Bliss available to us to train the trainers.   By day it was used by US students, but at night it was used by 5th Group and Agency guys to perfect their skills so they could train the Afghans.

I had to laugh when they introduced the Vickers character as their weapons expert.   I frankly didn’t know there was an Afghan Working Group at Langley.   I assumed somebody was managing it, but until I saw the documentary and read the Criles book I had no idea who.   The way it really worked, we didn’t hear a squeak from them until they got in a jam and or didn’t know what they were doing.   The Oerlikon business was a prime example.   They didn’t know an Oerlikon from a Krupp coffee maker.  All they knew about Oerlikons was what they read in the manufacturer’s manual, and it was our guys who had to try and convince them, and Wilson, that the Oerlikon was not the answer to their problem.   The same kind of problems occurred with the STINGERs.   Once they got over there someone figured out they knew how to fire them but didn’t know how to use them.   Over a long weekend I sat down and wrote tactical manuals for the employment of STINGER in Afghanistan and Angola.   I’d been to Angola during the war for independence and knew the area where they would be used rather well, but I’d never been to Afghanistan and had to rely on two officers who had, the Army Library, and the two relevant field manuals to come up with an abbreviated field manual for use in the high altitude, cross-compartmented terrain typical of that environment.   The combination of improved training, Infante’s target acquisition template, and the tactical manuals seemed to work.   Planes started falling out of the sky.

The other guy who should have received credit in the documentary but didn’t was MG Charles W. Brown.   Charlie Brown.   For some reason our whole branch got transferred from DCSOPS to DCSLOG, and when it did Charlie became our boss.  In the Criles book he makes the point that Wilson couldn’t have gotten away with what he did without Tip O’Neill’s tacit consent.   Charlie was my Tip O’Neill.   The Vice Chief of Staff of the Army at the time was Max Thurman.   One of the Vice’s primary responsibilities, over and beyond running the staff, is to husband the Army’s resources and I was in the process of stealing a large number of his STINGERS for something he most emphatically did not approve of.   Charlie was a barely reformed Nebraska cowboy.   As he once laughingly explained, he was the only man he’d ever met who’d gone to college on a polo scholarship. Almost thirty years of service hadn’t taken the ranch twang out of his voice, but he did not look healthy even 21 years ago.   He had a smoker’s cough (that later developed into cancer) and a perpetual prison pallor brought on by too many days and nights in the Pentagon.   He’d made a career out of letting people underestimate him,  but he was wonderfully personable and insightful, a truly honorable man, and extraordinarily shrewd and capable.   Also, one of the most skillful bureaucratic infighters I’ve ever known.   Thurman wasn’t too hard on lieutenant colonels and majors, but he was death on colonels and general officers, and in addition to carrying our mail on the Hill, I suspect Charlie took most of the tongue-lashings and abuse meant for me.   I owe him a great deal, for this and many other things, and will always think of him with profound respect and gratitude.   As an afterthought, it was Charlie Brown who first called my attention to the Criles book.

My part in all this was to provide the missiles, train and coordinate training for the trainers, develop the tactical manuals for the Muj and UNITA, and address problems, political and military, that impacted on the use of the weapons in-country.   One part of that involved symplifying the Program of Instruction for STINGER gunners.   Early on I discovered about a third of the POI was diagnostics and maintenance.   I suspected neither the Muj or UNITA would waste much time on that so threw it out and rewrote the whole thing to emphasize target identification, acquisition and training.   One of the 5th Group NCOs who actually trained the Muj later told me they took care of their missiles like they were camels.   If the weapon whistled or gurgled, or lit up when they twisted this or that nob they knew the missile was feeling well and would engage.   If it didn’t the missile was sick and needed attention from the Americans.   Usually just a battery swap, but everyone likes to feel useful.

Since there were no moving target simulators where the training was being done, at one point the UNITA trainees were using the resupply acft to practice target acquisition.   I don’t imagine the pilots would have been particularly pleased if someone had told them, but nobody got shot down who wasn’t supposed to so I guess it worked out.

When I left the program the Muj and UNITA between them had shot down 77 Soviet/Cuban acft.   The piece de resistance was an IL-76 shot down in Angola with a full load of Cubans aboard.    I’ve forgotten the body count but it was most gratifying.

Other odds and ends:

1.  The documentary makes the point that the Army was opposed to turning over STINGER to UNITA and the Muj.   This is true.

~   We were just fielding STINGER and hadn’t yet fully equipped the Regular Army with the new MANPADS.   Some frontline units committed to NATO were still using REDEYE, a first generation system of considerably less capability.

~   We’d invested millions in the technology and were probably a full generation ahead of the Soviets at that point.   There was a fear the missile would fall into Soviet hands and they would reverse engineer it, to our detriment.   And something like that did in fact happen.

~   We understood the potential benefits of introducing STINGER into Afghanistan as well as anyone, but by this time we’d also heard about Charlie Wilson.   Legislative Liaison had told us about his alleged drug use, his drinking, his hit and run, and his lack of discretion, and we didn’t want a program we’d spent millions on held hostage by someone we didn’t trust.

~  There was also the fear some of these missiles would subsequently be used against us or our partners in Western Europe.

~   By the same token we were also aware that this represented, to a degree, payback for Vietnam.   A mildly funny story related to that point.  During the period of the STINGERs greatest success our DATT in Moscow was invited to the Frunze Military Academy to make a presentation to the students and faculty.   During the Q and A the bright young Popovs got on him about  US assistance to Afghanistan and Angola.   He listened for awhile then said, “I’ll make a deal with you.   We’ll provide exactly as much assistance to the Mujahadin as you did to the North Vietnamese.    How will that be?”   That pretty much ended the Afghan discussion, but it’s fair and accurate to say the Army and the program manager were conflicted over the xfer of these missiles to guerrillas.

2.   In the documentary Charlie Wilson, the real one, says the Chief of Staff of the Army came to see him to explain why we shouldn’t give STINGER to anyone outside NATO.    Maybe, but I doubt it.   The Chief was John Wickham, and he was the last senior officer to find out about it.   When I briefed Vuono, then the DCSOPS, he asked me if the Chief had been briefed and I responded, “Everybody but him.”  If Wickham had gone up the Hill I would have had to do a briefing book and I was never asked to do that.    I don’t think the real Wilson would know the Chief of Staff if he tripped over him.   I suspect the man he saw was Charlie Brown; I know he was up there to see Wilson on one or more occasions.  At least once I was with him.

3.   Clarence (Doc) Long was exactly as depicted in the film and documentary.

He represented a working class district in Baltimore~Bethlehem Steel and the shipyards were in his district~and he was virtually impregnable.   Primarily because he had the largest admin support staff in Congress.   Twenty or thirty people working on nothing but constituent complaints.   Long’s district got the best service he could provide and they loved him for it, but he was not the brightest light in Baltimore Harbor and held his chairmanship only by reason of seniority.   In 1980 I heard him make the exact same speech he made in the film~ several times.   They captured it perfectly.

4.   Mike Vickers:  Inspite of my snide comment about his bona fides as a ”weapons expert” I suspect he was a good guy.   I’ve looked at his picture and I don’t recognize him, but that doesn’t mean anything.   I imagine he spent most of his time at Langley beavering away on the project.  Like everyone else, trying to make chicken salad out of pig’s knuckles, and gradually becoming invested in its success or failure.   Hats off to  him.  May he live forever.

5.   Same general comment on Gust.   I’ve looked at the pictures of him until my eyes cross and he doesn’t look familiar.   If he dressed the way he looks in the still photos I’ve seen, I probably thought he was someone’s bodyguard.   I’m kind of sorry I didn’t know him.   I have a feeling it would have cheered me up considerably.

6.   As for Milt Bearden, he does look familiar.   Can’t say where, but it wasn’t the Embassy.   I’ve never been there.   Possibly in the north, but more likely in Washington DC.   I understand he’s a fine man.   Give him my respectful best wishes and congratulations on the recognition he’s received.   Anybody who can wetnurse Charlie Wilson for that long and to that effect deserves at least the Order of Bombas y Cuerpos, with a Gold Liver Clasp and diamond studded hernia belt.

7.   Wilson did have a STINGER launcher mounted over the door in his office.   Until I saw the History Channel documentary I didn’t realize it was the one used to shoot down the first Hind, but it was there.

8.  One of the other players in this melodrama was Jay Garner, later appointed by the Bush Administration to be the first political czar in Iraq.   As a colonel he was running Artillery Branch in Force Development, the guys who decide how much of something the Army needs, and the STINGERS came out of his procurements.   He was the same fine man then he is now.  And reasonably good-humored about it.

9.   And finally the matter of Chuckie himself.

~  I freely admit I wasn’t around him much, but much of that was by design.  From what I’d heard about him and his antics I knew we weren’t going to be exchanging Christmas cards, and after the program achieved critical mass I didn’t want to screw it up by some untoward remark.   Particularly if it embarrassed Charlie Brown or the Army~or got me fired.

~  But, having said that he was an unlikable son-of-a-bitch, arrogant in an infantile sort of way and convinced of his superior insight and moral superiority.

~  The Defense Attache used his C-12 (a militarized version of the Beechcraft Super Kingair 200)   to haul Wilson around in-country.   On one of his trips to the north (probably Peshawar) Charlie had one of his girlfriends along and the pilot wouldn’t let her on government transport for the return trip to Karachi or Islamabad, or wherever he was going.   As I heard it the pilot wasn’t being difficult, that was just the rules.   Probably Congressionally mandated.   Congressmen’s wives were no problem, Embassy staffers and wives no problem, but girlfriends weren’t supposed to fly at government expense and the pilot stuck to his guns.  I’m told that in the next budget cycle Wilson struck the C-12 flying hour program out of the appropriations bill.   The Air Force provided some training money from other funds, but there was turbulence in the C-12 program for the next several years.  Two acft were taken out of service altogether and there were at least two crashes, both attributed to pilot error.    As I said, I cannot confirm from my own knowledge that Wilson did it, but I was told he did by Legislative Liasion and the Air Staff, and a couple years later by someone in Attache Affairs.   If he did I think that speaks volumes about his capacity for pettiness and his sense of entitlement.   (If provoked I’ll put in a request under the FOIA and see what turns up.   Also have several friends who were C-12 pilots in that era, and I’ll ask them about it.)

~  I also have heartburn with his abortive little flutter into Afghanistan.   What purpose did that serve?  As a soldier I hate to see soldier’s lives put at risk to gratify the childish impulses ofan egomaniacal jerk.   If the Soviets had known he was in Afghanistan, and God forbid they’d captured him, how would that have played out?   Bearden would have had to commit everything he had in the area to save or rescue him, with what result?   I wasn’t anywhere close by when he did it, but I suspect Bearden was.   (I can’t imagine anyone would let Wilson go north without adult supervision.)  I’d be interested in hearing what he has to say about it.

~  And finally, I’m irritated that a man like that receives so much credit for the efforts of the 200-300 Americans who actually made it happen.   The Mike Vickers, Gusts, Infantes, Browns, Beardens, above all the 5th Group trainers and Agency pogues who were the interface between the Muj and America, and all the others who actually made Wilson’s one unquestioned moment of inspiration and clarity a reality.  With a nod from the White House they could have done it without him, but he couldn’t have done it without us.

I understand since his retirement from public life he’s become a lobbyist.   That sounds about right.

In short, I liked the movie but I’m still comfortable with my original impressions of Cocaine Charlie, the man voted one of the twenty least effective legislators in the House of Representatives by House staffers.  I cannot begin to explain the pivotal role he played in all this, and the fact so much good came from the conscience-striken efforts of such a trivial man.   But it did.   He was the maypole we all danced around.   Perhaps the best way  to rationalize him is to characterize him as one of Lenin’s useful idiots.   I doubt Lenin would appreciate the irony, but nothing else makes sense.    If I’m ever near the Reagan Library I plan to stop by and see if there is some kind of PDM or presidential finding authorizing all of this.   I can’t believe Reagan or one of his senior staffers didn’t know about or authorize it.   I’m reinforced in my beliefs by the spate of recent articles about him by others who knew him back then, most recently Robert Scheer, of Creative Syndications, last Monday.

I should also mention in fairness that some of those closest to him still think he’s a prince.   Tomorrow I’ll send along a msg from one of his former staffers who thinks he’s wonderful.   WTFO.  Further deponent sayeth not.


18 Comments

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i knew charlie. a complete idiot. shepherded by the USN.

for all practical purposes, the creation of arthur temple jr[temple industries]. the supplier of newsprint to so many that one might say that they owned the press.

eventually, the temple lock on newsprint caused time, inc to acquire them.

after that acquisition, who really ran charlie? the luce empire? or the usn?

charlie was so much a drug addict that i don't think that he did it on his own. he was just a front.

I put together a "Google" based glossary of some of the terms and abbreviations used in the post.

The post is personality driven. Not much info beyond that but I guess that's to be expected. I was a little numbed by, "I've forgotten the body count but it was most gratifying." I've no doubt some people felt the same way at the collapse of the WTC. At its simplest you don't want to say or write something that gets posted on the other team's locker room door.

**********

acft : aircraft

ARSTAFF : Army Staff (Pentagon)

DATT : Defense and Army Attaché

DCSLOG : Deputy Chief of Staff for Logistics, US Army (US DoD)

DCSOPS : Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations and Plans, United States Army (US DoD)

FBNC : Fort Bragg, North Carolina

MANPADS : man-portable air defense system

MG : Major General (also Machine Gunner, but unlikely in the case above)

MILGROUP : United States Military Advisory Group

msg : message

MTT : Military Training Team

Muj : Mujahadeen

NATO : North Atlantic Treaty Organization

NCO : A non-commissioned officer, also known as an NCO or Noncom, is an enlisted member of an armed force who has been given authority by a commissioned officer.

ODRP : Office of Defense Representative, Pakistan

Oerlikon : anti-aircraft cannon

PDM : Presidential Decision Memorandum

POI : Program of Instruction

Pogue : an offensive military slang term used by front line troops to describe non-infantry, non-combat soldiers, staff, and other rear-echelon or support units. A related term is the acronym REMF, or "rear-echelon mother fucker".

REDEYE : FIM-43 Redeye was the first man-portable air defense system (MANPADS)

STINGER : FIM-92 Stinger is a man portable infrared homing surface-to-air missile

UNITA : National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (Portuguese: União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola)

WTFO : (Military slang): What the Fuck, Over! (1970's).

xfer : transfer

XO : Executive Officer (XO) is the second-in-command, reporting to the Commanding Officer (CO)

I’ve forgotten the body count but it was most gratifying.

Classy!

I'm not at all bothered by the body count comment, that's just the way he thinks. He's a cold warrior, its a cold war, and if you think that the Cubans in Angola were just there to build the world's first tropical bobsled run, think again.

Other things are far more interesting. The 'jargon as a first language' motif going on, as our hero disappears up his own acronyms is fascinating. It speaks to a man so immersed in a particular community that he's literally forgotten how to talk to outsiders. I shudder to think of how he might talk about going shopping or having sex with his wife ;)

But apart from having a little fun, its interesting to see how absolutely enclosed the language is, and how totally immersed in it he is. I think it says something about the community as well... that it is intensely immersive and enclosed. In many ways, utterly disconnected from the reality that most people live their lives in. It is disconnected even from the authorities that supervise this community, and utterly alien to the societies that this community presumably attempts to develop intelligence on.

The implication is that a community this tightly enclosed is a lot better at covert operations and activities, and not very good at intelligence. For intelligence, you have to know other people very well. They know themselves well, and they articulate themselves to each other perfectly. Knowing the outside... not so good. It may go a long ways to explaining the recurrent intelligence gathering failures. And also the notable propensity for 'Operations.

Beyond that, there's an intimacy of association, an almost 'high school' quality to the emphasis on individuals and reputations. Again, small community, tightly knit, insular. Identity is a matter of belonging to the community. Other people have relevance when vouched for by people in the community.

It's a fascinating, and perhaps unconsidered window into the culture.

Thanks.

I wonder if this stuff is even real. It sounds like a Jack Abramoff movie pitch or bad John le Carré knockoff to me. Military guys I've known have endless stories. They're all glorious, filled with jargon, and mostly utter fiction told with a wink.

It seems indisputable Larry likes the fame he got from the Wilson affair. He apparently also has income depending upon it. How does he keep it? Does he have a bottomless well of emails from anonymous buddies?

Does he start inventing like Jayson Blair? He wouldn't be the first ex-CIA to make a living in fiction.

Again, does TPMC have any sourcing rules? If so, great...

Other things are far more interesting. The 'jargon as a first language' motif going on, as our hero disappears up his own acronyms is fascinating. It speaks to a man so immersed in a particular community that he's literally forgotten how to talk to outsiders. I shudder to think of how he might talk about going shopping or having sex with his wife ;)

Although your sociological take on this is interesting, the "hero" wasn't talking "to outsiders." This was an e-mail sent to Larry - a friend, and someone already familiar with the jargon.

Journalistically, it would have been appropriate for Larry to have defined the jargon. But, I don't hold the writer responsible for shorthand used to communicate a private e-mail with a friend and colleague. 

~~~~~~~~~~~

Come visit PROJECT: Lucidity
Where everybody knows your name...
unless you use a pseudonym

Oops. That should have been a reply to Valdron.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Come visit PROJECT: Lucidity
Where everybody knows your name...
unless you use a pseudonym

No problem. My point remains that this level of jargonspeak is evidence of a culture so inbred and exclusive that it hives off of regular society.

I've been involved at the fringes, and do speak fluent Acronym, although I do admit that I did have a doubletake when someone used NAVSECGRUACTPACDET in conversation and I understood it.

In the DC area, where I don't live at present, there were conversational clues. If someone said they worked "for the Defense Department", it was at least suggestive they were in intelligence in a very light cover. People in the actual organization of DoD tend to speak of their major organization, such as the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD), or Defense Logistics Agency,or some service component.

There is an interesting social phenomenon that if you call someone on a secure phone, he's often willing to talk sensitive things.


--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Here's Jonas Savimbi

For decades, Savimbi’s forces fought Angola’s MPLA government, which was supported militarily by the Soviet Union and thousands of Cuban troops--and was recognized by every country in the world except South Africa and the United States. In order to instill terror in the population and to undermine confidence in the government, Savimbi ordered that food supplies be targeted, millions of land mines be laid in peasants’ fields, and transport lines be cut. As part of this destabilization effort, UNITA frequently attacked health clinics and schools, specifically terrorizing and killing medical workers and teachers. The UN estimated that Angola lost $30 billion in the war from 1980 to 1988, which was six times the country’s 1988 GDP. According to UNICEF, approximately 330,000 children died as direct and indirect results of the fighting during that period alone. Human Rights Watch reports that because of UNITA’s indiscriminate use of landmines, there were over 15,000 amputees in Angola in 1988, ranking it alongside Afghanistan and Cambodia.
What's next a hagiography of Gulbadin Hekmatyar?
Women too formed a part of these student protests. They were so politically charged that some 5,000 of them came out in the streets to protest acid attacks on women by Gulbadin Hekmatyar and his men for wearing western dress. The attackers had thrown acid and burnt the exposed legs and faces of women on the streets as well as shot them in the legs. Meena was too young to be politically active at that time but it was this kind of bigotted obscurantism that she was to struggle against till her premature death.

" I cannot begin to explain the pivotal role he played in all this, and the fact so much good came from the..."

WTF!? Who are these idiots?

Glad you were here, Seth. I don't have the energy to type what I think of this terrorist supporting crap. Unita--my God. I have no intention of watching this stupid movie, mainly because I gather it glorifies the kind of people who supported mass murder overseas.

I have seen the movie, and I wouldn't say it glorifies its characters.

It sets out to make the most entertaining film possible about a set of questionable people spending large amounts of money to support a war that killled many people, met its short-term objectives, and turned out to have unintended consequences. And that's what it does.

It was a better movie than I expected it to be--especially because it only asked the audience to like the characters enough to enjoy the film, not to walk out going wow, I never knew Charlie Wilson was a hero. It's pretty obvious when details are being left out or not fully expolored, and I actually liked that. It's like having someone say "OK, we glossed over issue X in this scene because it's a movie, but you could go read about it and make up your own mind.

Erica, I haven't seen the movie and it's possible I'd agree with you if I did. But it's probably more likely I wouldn't, based on what the following two links say--

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/010608a.html

http://tomdispatch.com/post/174877/chalmers_johnson_an_imperialist_comedy

I'm not sure how to do links here, so you may have to cut and paste.

It's so heartening to know these cowboys were defending freedom and democracy. It's a wonder the world isn't even more fucked up than it is. Just goes to show you the resiliency of the human spirit.

I'd say, thanks to these heroes, we're in Afganistan again. Not to mention how the fucked up situation in Afganistan opened the door to our cluster fuck in Iraq. But it was all a grand game and the Cuban body count was damn satisfying.

To follow up, I'm glad we have real heroes in the military putting their asses on the line. But what did we gain in Afganistan except two burning towers in New York? Nobody could foresee that, except Nostradamus, but still, didn't anybody in this ever step back and say, what the hell are we doing here?

What's TPMC's policy on sourcing? Is anyone verifying this stuff?

There have been enough confidential letters and war stories scandals. Not that Larry's post rises to that level or that anyone would care to fact check that kind of scuttlebutt anyways. But just saying...

Some sort of sourcing rules might be nice.

Afghanistan was classic 'Blowback': see the Chalmers Johnston book of the same name-- the unintended consequences of intelligence operations.

Just as the 1979 fall of the Shah in Iran and the rise to power of the ayatollahs was blowback for the 1952 coup against Mossadeqh.

Angola is another case of blowback. A nation nearly destroyed by civil war, with several 10s of millions of unexploded landmines, now being raped and pillaged by its politicians. And of course the position of the apartheid government in South Africa was strengthened by the shenanigans of UNITA in Angola, and Renamo in Mozbambique.

The Congo would be another: the US conspired in the assassination of the its first President.

Over to your man's email. Well, it reads like an insider (TLAs, FLAs. etc.).

He's obviously a patriot. He was doing a patriot's duty. Putting Hind gunship killing weapons into the hands of people who would use them. Killing Cuban mercenaries is going to be part of that job (I have it on good authority the Cubans were using East German fighter pilots: women fighter pilots in one case-- this from someone whose brother fought them in Namibia).

You can't really judge the tools, if the policy is wrong. This man was pointed at the wrong mission, a mission that led by its twisted trail to the creation of Osama bin Ladin, and the death of over 3,000 people on the morning of 9-11.

But assuming he's for real, he was a patriot, and probably damned good at his job.

We probably shouldn't lionise Charlie Wilson though: it is the politicians who set the strategy, and it was a very bad strategy (although Zbigniew Brzezinski was a big fan).

But you can't shoot your operatives for doing the job, well, that you sent them to do.

Afghanistan was not direct blowback; leaving Afghanistan allowed the blowback. If we had stayed engaged with the mujihadeen, and helped rebuild, things would have been rather different.

When Charlie Wilson was doing his thing both sides were fairly enthusiastic with their proxies. But we missed yet another opportunity to do the right thing, and make friends when we had a chance.

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