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Bloomberg Should

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Endorse the Democratic candidate of his choice, and spend several hundred million dollars to elect Democrats at every level.

That would be serve to his country, and suit his principles.

Then he could tackle health care reform as the head of HHS, or otherwise serve in a complex, challenging job requiring his high competence.

If he ran for President himself, he would wrest away from Ralph Nader the title of Evilest Spoilsport Candidate ever in American history.

So he surely knows all this. What, then, is he doing?


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May be Bloomberg doesn't believe that Obama is centrist enough. May be Obama, to block a Bloomberg run, should join Boren, Nunn and Broder; this will emphasize his commitment to the bi approach.

Bloomberg is surrounded by sycophants who are convincing him, falsely that there is some sort of national groundswell for a Bloomberg candidacy. I think he'll find that he's not so well known outside of the coasts, especially the east coast, as his friends are telling him.

You know, he could just as easily draw votes from Republicans as Democrats. He's been a very authoritarian mayor.

It might also be that he hates Giuliani who tried to extend his term after 9/11, implying that the much smarter Bloomberg can't handle it. Maybe he'll jump in if Giuliani gets the nomination and draw votes from him?

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

While Clinton and Obama and ALL the Republicans are more right-wing than Bloomberg AND the dieties know he has enough cash to finance an exercise in self adulation . . . Hell, if he wants to give away money, he should cut a check for $1000 to every registered voter in America rather than feed Fox, GE, Sony and the WB.

He won't be President but wealth will be redistributed . . . So who gives a shit? PRAY for Bloomberg to run.

If he ran for President himself, he would wrest away from Ralph Nader the title of Evilest Spoilsport Candidate ever in American history.

Hardly. I don't see anyone out there as evil as Bush/Cheney. Nader will have that title locked, unless Simon LaGree runs.

:D 

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So in Reed's version of the truth, shouldn't there be adulation, saint-hood and even deification for Ross Perot, the candidate who made possible Clinton's victory in '92 ??? If it wasn't for Perot, as I maintained at the time and have never seen any contradictory evidence since, wouldn't the popular vote have been 52% Bush and 48% Clinton?

And where in Reed's and workerbee's estimation should we hold the Democratic leaders of Palm Beach county, who produced the ballot that allowed Nader and Buchanan to get in the way of their candidate?

And how about the two Democratic candidates who allowed W to steal an election from them, and never made a peep of systematic protest either to the election supervisors, the courts, the media or their own impassioned supporters?

Isn't it curious how those Democratic leaders remain esteemed, while selective bile continues to pour by the gallon for Nader ... and mostly from self-professed "hard-core" Democrats who continue to support candidates who will not seriously impede the Republican/corporatist agenda?

I'm trying to work with Democrats ... but they are a pretty lily-livered bunch, when it ever comes to actually fighting current battles against Republicans (compared to fighting past, illusory, battles with Nader).

I'm a registered Green.

Better lay off the caffine, dude.

Nader told idiots like you that there was no difference between Gore and Bush. How'd that work out for ya?

I'm tired of zealots. You qualify.

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Hey, I lost most of my Green friends in this state when I stood up leading a "Greens for Kerry" position ... and when that guy caved in over both the Swift Boat attacks themselves and the Blackwell machinations in Ohio ... THAT's what didn't work out so well.

And for the record, those of us who worked on the campaign in '00 NEVER agreed with, endorsed or supported the claim that there was no difference between Gore and Bush, every time Nader said that it made our work harder ... the three weeks in August that Gore spent trending to the left were the period of his greatest lead in the polls, if he had started doing that in '99 and stayed with it he could have seriously disrupted the Nader effort ...

I'm hoping to be able to support a Democrat in '08 ... will there be a Democrat who actually supports a progressive agenda ?? Is that zealotry ... or naivite on my part?

will there be a Democrat who actually supports a progressive agenda ?? Is that zealotry

 Yes. It certainly is. I'm sure Obama, Kucinich,  and Edwards will be mighty amused to hear that some left-wing goof-balls don't think they are progressive enough.

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Woah there partner.

Twenty years ago, Edwards would been a centrist. Kucinich and Gravel on the left-side.

Re-read the Democratic platforms for the last sixty years. Obama stands on the conservative side of the universe. He is not quite proto-fascist . . . But progressive is not an adjective for him.

Woah yourself.

This ain't "20 years ago."

Read the Dem platform from 2008, or 2007, even.

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Of course, it is not twenty years ago . . . that's why America NEEDS a Progressive/Liberal as its next President.

Obama is not that man.

Edwards, Kucinich, Gravel can claim that title.

Maybe Nader noticed there was no difference between Lieberman and Cheney. Gore could have gone after the Nader voters. He chose the Lieberman DLC triangulating loser strategy instead.

That's utterly ridiculous. What is wrong with you people?

I'm no fan of Lieberman, but he is my state senator and his record speaks for itself. He's a solid Liberal on everything but this loser war.

If you think he's just like Cheney, or that Nader is a progressive, you've got some learning to do.

Look, if you're looking for the "perfect progressive" that thinks like you do, (shudder) run for president yourselves. You'll never be happy, otherwise. Jesus Christ Himself isn't as pure as what you're looking for.

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He's a solid Liberal on everything but this loser war.

Therein lies the problem...

"Solid liberal" and "loves this war" are mutually exclusive.

Must find a different adjective. 

I didn't say Lieberman loves the war. And you used quote marks? Well golly, that says volumes, don't it. So after 20 years of being the darling of the Democratic party for good and solid reasons, Lieberman is a Cheney clone.

Whatever.

I wouldn't be so inflexible and shallow and call myself a progressive.

Perhaps you folks need a different adjective.

Insensate comes to mind, so does shrill and unreasonable, and ridiculous.

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So, lets see... I get misquoted when I sanely point out that Lieberman-- putz that he is, I voted for Lamont-- isn't Dick Cheney. Then I point out that there are Dems running on a progressive agenda, by golly, and that Nader ensued that Bush got elected (a point made in the original post here).All reality-based observations, and I get troll rated? Three times, no less.

Yep. The term zealot fits rather nicely. Feather asked, and I answered.

I'm sure if you keep abusing the ratings system, Feather, others will find out you're an unreasonable and spiteful fanatic, too. I understand now why you lost all your Green friends, so do us sane folks all a favor and stay away from the Dem campaigns this year. I worked on presidential and progressive campaigns locally as well and I didn't "lose" anyone.

But then I'm not so inflexible that I demand utter perfection from anyone running for office or their supporters.

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Yes you get troll-rated for your continued unsupported assertions that Nader caused Gore to lose, and general tendentiousness in what I criticized to begin with: selective bile against Nader that apparently exceeds anger with Republicans.

I worked for Nader then, to push the Dems to the left, yet I expected and wanted Gore to win.

Basically bluebell is right, Gore caused Gore to lose.

The other way of looking at it, as i've argued in a number of face-to-face forums around my location, is that both Greens and Dems made the same fatal mistake: we didn't realize how determined the Republicans were to steal that election.

And even when they were doing it all through November, we didn't get serious in opposing it, in having, for example human wave sit-ins at the Supreme Court.

Again, I've been working with and for Democrats only pretty much since then. I'm not gonna let myself be pushed away from that by your silliness, but your effort to read me and those like me out of the universe of proper people is, in effect, a splitting of the Dem. effort, thus a boost to Repubs., thus a troll.

Troll-rated for using logical fallacies to accuse other posters of what feather family is most guilty of. Your zealotry is obvious, and in my opinion, silly.

If you disagree with my assertions, the burden of proof is on you. You hardly did that, you just vented your spleen all over my agreement that Nader was "Evilest Spoilsport Candidate ever in American history," and you disagreed by stating that Ralph Nader made your job harder and caused you to lose your Green "friends." Hardly convincing in that it tended to support the contention that Nader lost it for Gore rather than the opposite. (Duh.)

To wit, your emotional zealotry obviously took over the logic centers in your brain. You were joined in this shill attack by another zealot that believes the only good DLC democrat is a dead one.

I'm so glad you found eachother, but you'll excuse me if I'd rather have a rational discussion elsewhere.

You troll rated me because you disagree with my assertions, NOT because you could prove the untruth of them. Period. That is clearly against the guidelines set forth here.

The real troll here is you.

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Again, Nader did not have as much effect on Gore's loss to Bush as any number of other factors I could name.

- Gore's failure to carry his own home state of Tennessee,

-- the John Bolton/repub staffer riot against vote counting in Miami,

-- the Miami officials, Democrats I presume, who caved to that riot and stopped counting votes because of it,

-- and the eternally shameful Supreme Court with their unsupportable opinion.

Where are the DLC Democrats who are seething other those factors, like you -- who claim to be a registered Green -- are seething over Nader?

I am not here to defend Nader, but I am here to defend those who voted for him in '96 and '00. To my view, you are the one stuck in a logical fallacy: if you claim Nader lost it for Gore, then you admit you need our on-the-left-edge votes to get to a majority ... so we get seven years of insults and blame game that ignores Bolton, Scalia, Rove and the others who engineered the theft? Shouldn't you be courting us, to ensure unity and a win next time ??

I say that both Dems and Greens were miserable failures in '00 -- neither of us recognized the depth of the coming conspiracy, nor the twisted neo-con ends to which it would be put ... both of our parties naively trusted that ballots would be counted and the rule of law would be followed (as it was not in the Bush v. Gore decision.

And with Gore's un-willingness to move beyond DLC centrism, Nader was not an unreasonable choice to make (given that neither of us could foresee the coming coup, if I had seen on Jan. 1 2000 what Jan 1 2002 would be like, I'm sure I would have made very different decisions).

And I am far from the fantastic charges you make that I am defending "saint Ralph," I have many criticisms of the top-down way he ran his campaigns and the damage he did to the grass-roots Green Party we had built, I haven't been a great supporter of him since '01.

Clearly we're never gonna agree, so I don't need to spin this out much more, yet I will, as it seems necessary, continue for my part to rationally defend the Green voters of '00 while you take another path.

And gee ...

come to think of it ...

having hissy-fits to try to pin a label on me, that seems to better describe you ...

isn't that kind of like ...

a troll??

the sentence near the top should read, "the DLC Democrats who are seething over those other factors ..."

Your "solid liberal" has endorsed John McCain. Even Nader didn't endorse Bush.

No. What Nader did was ensue Bush got elected.

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And yesteday McCain and Lieberman received the liberal label from Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Mark Levin in a one-day blast of attacks to try to affect upcoming primaries and stop McCain's rise. It was that blatant: they said don't vote for him, he's a liberal and here's why; and Lieberman's endorsement was the flag they used to do this. Enough people will vote for someone just based upon them being called a liberal that they think it's worthwhile to do that.

...My fingers are crossed that at the next debate, either Fred Thompson or Mitt Romney will find a way to address McCain’s record. (Mike Huckabee won’t, as he is apparently in the tank for him.)
from The Real McCain Record Obstacles in the way of conservative support. By Mark R. Levin, a "Reagan conservative" in National Review Online.

I think you have may have some illusions about how much liberalism a majority in this country will take, it all depends on the issue. Lieberman is liberal enough for many, he proved it by getting re-elected in the manner that he did in a Northeastern blue state. And Iraq is only one issue to a lot of people, not the be-all and end-all it is in the blogosphere; concern about it may be also fading, it wasn't that strong in the NH exit polls. Taxes needed to pay for government programs are, as always, a very potent issue for the Republican side. And Bush is a liberal on education and immigration to a significant number of people who don't happen to like it. I doubt that Reaganism is totally dead in this country. If what you think is true, how come there aren't enough liberals in the current Congress to override? The people just had a chance to vote on that, those who rejected Repubicans sent moderates instead, that's all they could manage.

This is not in any way meant to get into the argument about voting one's true beliefs vs. voting more strategically, as I think there are valid arguments to each side of that.

It's difficult to tell how much liberalism this country will take considering they never get the opportunity to vote for it.

Gore lost because he embraced the boring, suppposedly safe, triangulated, amoral, valueless, platitudes of the DLC and chose an unappealing old guy as his running mate. Had he inspired greater turnout among Democrats he would have won. Lieberman may be popular in Connecticut, he was an unknown everywhere else. Unfortunately, he's all too well known now.

Every American citizen has a perfect right to run for public office: even Ralph Nader and Mayor Bloomberg. Excercising this perfectly legitimate right does not make any American either a spoilsport or evil. Why does Reed Hundt hate democracy?

True, "independent," self-financing candidates like Ross Perot can take 19% and 9%, respectively, away from the Republican Party's presidential candidate as an object lesson from America's rabid right-wing that raising taxes on America's wealthiest demographic has consequences for the party that traditionally kowtows to the monolithic monied interests. Such spitting of the Republican ticket can also twice result in election to the American presidency of mere-plurality candidates like Bill Clinton. So what? I never heard either of the Clinton Partners in Pathos call Ross Perot an "evil spoilsport" and demand that he withdraw from campaigning for office in America. Had they considered him a threat to their interests, they would have loudly condemned his candidacy.

Often-overlooked-point: Any "Democratic Party" candidate for President who stupidly selects Neocon Likudnik Holy Joe Lieberman (currently campaigning for Republican Mad Dog John McCain) as his vice presidential running mate deserves to lose. Neither Ralph Nader nor Mayor Bloomberg had anything to do with that colossal blunder, either.

Reed Hundt's comments here reek of self-serving hypocrisy. Mayor Bloomberg -- or Al Gore or Ralph Nader for that matter -- could easily still enter the presidential race for any reason they wish and whether or not they have any political party whatsoever to support them. If they can get on a ballot somewhere, good for them. The Constitution says nothing about political parties and most of our Founders abhored them as plagues upon the body politic. At any rate, as Gore Vidal correctly points out: "America doesn't have two political parties; it has one political party with two right wings." Call it the Janus -- or Two Faced -- Party for want of a better name. Ralph Nader has long and properly criticized it.

America needs someone -- or several someones -- to represent the majority of Americans now solidly to the left of the corrupt, corporate Republicrat duopoly. Neither the Democratic nor the Republican right wings of the oligarchic Janus Party represent anything but entrenched bureaucratic leeches and their corporate masters. At any rate, China, Europe, and Russia keep gaining on, and in many cases passing, a deadbeat, free-lunch America addicted to Warfare Welfare and Makework Militarism. America has already crawled up its own militarist asshole and died in Middle-Eastern deserts for "oil, Israel, and Domestic Political Advantage," as my fellow Vietnam Veteran Daniel Ellsberg accurately puts it. Not even Ralph Nader or Mayor Bloomberg can resurrect the Lunatic Leviathan now.

Reed Hunt certainly is correct in his assumption that Bloomberg would take more votes from the Dems than from the Republicans; his policy preferences in general are far closer to those of the Dems. Of course Bloomberg has a right to run. And sensible progressives have a right to urge him not to engage in a vanity campaign that could ensure a Repblican victory.

the assumption that Bloomberg would take more otherwise R votes than otherwise D votes is just that, an assumption.

You're showing fairly little faith in the intelligence and pent-up anger of most Democrats, who I believe have been somewhat radicalized by the experience of the last 8 years, and are not likely to be distracted by a new face on old centrism.

Please don't take that to mean I favor a Bloomberg candidacy in any way. I'm just saying, both you and Reed are making a big, pessimistic assumption, which may or may not be true.

Anyone who favors a Bloomberg candidacy is also very much under-estimating the difficulty of getting a new ballot line in many states when the effort doesn't even start until March. All the money and media in the world can't necessarily overcome the obstacles in the way of getting on the ballot in anything near 50 states.

The reason Bloomberg won't endorse a Democrat is because Obama is not sufficiently committed to killing hundreds of thousands more Muslims than we already have.

And I assume he can't support Hillary, who is so committed, for the same reasons 53% of Americans can't support her, Clinton Derangement.

To return to the original question, I don't know why Bloomberg is considering it. It doesn't appear ideological, as he has always had policy views but never a strong broader point of view; as mayor, he tends to articulate more or less liberal ideas (such as lowering confrontations between the black community and the police or city hall, as gun control, or as restoring after Koch and Giuliani at least a modest interest in new housing) within a technocratic "competence" presentation. His comments on ending partisanship seem somewhere between vague and meaningless.  (Yeah, right, sure you will.)

It can't be based on prospects of winning.  It could only seem a vanity thing, misled by too much money and flattery, but he hasn't seemed that focused on himself as mayor. So I give up.  

And sure he'd take not only more votes from Democrats, but also election prospects because of which states he'd have a chance in.  But the electoral college aside, one might think of the GOP right now as long shots because they've been reduced more and more to their core. Bloomberg voters would come from those who might not always vote for a Democrat but are alienated from the Bushies and the Bush sycophants that the Republican candidates for the nomination are playing. He could also take votes from people who are likely to vote Democratic but would at some gut level love an excuse not to vote for a black or a woman. 

John 

http://www.haberarts.com/

My bet is that someone is being paid by major republican interests to convince Bloomberg to run. Someone to constantly whisper in his ear, "the country needs you blah blah blah"; it's all part of the official ratfrack operation by the GOP skunkworkers.

Bloomberg has bought into it a bit, obviously. Vanity and ambition are wonderful when they create something useful but they can also be channeled into terrible projects. Kennedy had vanity and ambition, but so did Napoleon; it's a question of what you choose to do. Why Bloomberg can't start a charity or a scholarship is beyond me. A run for the White House is like a land invasion of Russia, shockingly important and yet doomed to self destructive failure and damage to all if not anchored in the most objective realism. Bloomy is dreaming crazy dreams that could get us all killed.

"Maybe Nader noticed there was no difference between Lieberman and Cheney." Nice debate guys, but Nadar's insights weren't about war at all. He was running on the economy, stating that both parties represented corporate America. In the end, it still came down to mea culpa on NAFTA as the litmus test, trumping the Laffer curve, outsourcing, deregulation, Halliburton, Enron, the environment, ... and I could go on for a long time, but that's just within economic policy.

I can see a real truth into how America is still wedded to markets. If Nader had run on as the socialist, the modern day Eugene V. Debs, I might have given him some respect, even if might have voted Democrat in Debs's days. But he didn't. He ran as the anti-NAFTA populist, which has a bitter edge today, between Bush's victory and the right-wing attack on immigration. He also ran as the true liberal, with Gore the corporate lobbyist, and that's proved even more wrong, and thoroughly disastrous. Welcome, Bloomberg. I trust he'll get a true lunatic elected. I had so little hold on reality left anyhow. 

John

http://www.haberarts.com/

Watch out, you might get troll rated for pointing out reality.

Ve vill not tolerate anyone berating saint Ralph!!!

 

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Does anyone other than Sam Waterston want Bloomberg to run?

 

"You say I'm a dreamer.  We're two of a kind.  Looking for some perfect world that we both know that we'll never find." - Thompson Twins, "Hold Me Now"

Again . . . Let Bloomberg waste his money. He is over 45 and a citizen . . . Color himself qualified.

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