Obama: Race Matters

I think I've been depressed since 11/22/1963.

Of course, I was a kid then but I don't think I've ever gotten over JFK's assassination. (Last year I went to Dallas for the first time ever and I visted Dealey Plaza the way a Catholic visits the garden of Gethesamne.

Forgive the irreverence and don't think I don't know that JFK was far from perfect.

But the fact is that until 11/22/63, it was possible to believe that this country is, in JFK's words, the "last, best hope of mankind."

I haven't believed that since. I now understand that America has done plenty of evil, more than most countries.

But America is my country and I'd rather believe in it, than not.

Obama offers the possibility of believing again.

I know one is not supposed to talk about his race. But, hey, I'm not on his staff. I can say whatever I want.

And I believe that the day we elect this young, qualified African-American as our President, the image of America will be transformed worldwide.

And not just the image, the reality.

The thing I love about this country most is that we are not racially based. People may be racist but no one says that a black American is not really an American. A Turk can't really be a German. A Jew can't really be a Swede. And an Arab can't really be an Israeli.

But we are a country that is defined by neither race nor religion.

At the same time, our history is all about race. Our economic greatness was built on slavery and the extermination of the Indians.

For most of their time on this continent, people of African descent could not even vote. (Voting rights finally passed in 1965).

And now an African-American is the front-runner for the Presidency.

Yes, he's also qualified and brilliant, etc. But he would not be who he is if he was not black. And I doubt he would be our front-runner either.

For me, this is not a slam against him but a statement of praise for this country. It couldn't happen anywhere else (in any case, it hasn't).

If it happens here, we will understand that America really is America, maybe even "the last best hope of mankind." At the very least, we will know that, unlike most of the nations of the world, this country truly belongs to all the people who live here.

Lincoln would be proud.


Comments (53)

When JFK was assassinated, I was eleven. I've never believed he was killed by a lone gunman, and that the truth of a conspiracy in his murder would reveal a struggle for possession of America that's been going on for a very long time.

Lyndon Johnson was supposed to have remarked to a biographer on his Texas ranch, not long before he died, "If people knew the truth about his [JFK's] assassination, there'd be another revolution in this country." It's probably an apocryphal comment (I've never confirmed it), but I think there's a great deal of truth in the idea it expressed.

Ever since November 22nd, (and together with Martin Luther King and Bobby's murders), I've always thought of that afternoon in Dealy Plaza as the fork in the road. And ever since, I've felt JFK's murder was a proximate act -- an orignal sin which made all the other crimes of our government not only possible and inevitable, but (for certain people) necessary... to cover that first step in Dallas.

It seemed to me November 22nd was the date when our country (and all of us, unwitting hostages) was dragged down the path towards becoming one more vicious and failed empire, technologically superior and morally bankrupt... much like those Old World empires our Founders believed we did not have to emulate, and whose fates we didn't have to embrace.

I've never forgiven that; and the people who did this, the strata of society which gave birth to them, should be the sworn enemies of us all -- for what they stole from us, in the dark; because they believed they were better than the ideals they claimed to honor.

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Read Anthony Summers' book, Not in Your Lifetime, for the best summary I have found on the assassination of JFK. This book in its first two editions was called Conspiracy. If you already know a lot about the assassination I would recommend Larry Hancock's book, Someone Would Have Talked.  David Talbot's recent book, Brothers, is a good summary of RFK's views on JFK's assassination.

JFK's assassination was clearly a conspiracy.  It had happened before with Lincoln.  Let's hope it never happens again. 

Thanks for the recommendations. I knew Josiah Thompson (Six Seconds In Dallas) some years ago; Anthony Summers' work I know through other books, and while I knew about Hancock's Somebody..., I haven't gotten to it yet.

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Three steps forward, two steps back...

I decided this country had turned an important corner when I was unhappy with our Secretary of State for being participating this administration's misuse of prewar intelligence. And not a moment's consideration of the history-making facts that she is simultaneously the second woman, the second African person and the first African-American woman ever to hold that position.

(Madeleine Albright --> Colin Powell --> Condolezza Rice; general Powell was the first African-American SoS...)

If Barack is elected, and his leadership is up to the promise, then we really will have accomplished something significant. The presidency is The Big Cahuna, and electing Mr. Obama would be a good message.

Reality however is more than message, and we have some real work ahead us no matter who works in the front office.

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Whatever it takes to convince yourself.

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Ack - forgot the drivel-quote:

"But we are a country that is defined by neither race nor religion."

We are defined neither by race nor religion. That could change if the Christian right succeeds, but it hasn't yet.
As I wrote, we have racists but they do not say that blacks are not Americans, just that they don;t like them. Compare that with the race-based countries.

Or religion based.

I was 2 when JFK was assasinated, but his words lived on to inspire me.

I think as long as they continue to inspire Americans, we'll be O.K. Mr. Rosenberg.

:)

CSPAN junkies visit http://spannerbackup.ipbhost.com

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Qualified. Brilliant. A fabulous image to project to the world. A fabulous triumph of decades of liberal effort making the election of an African-American not only possible, but to make it happen.

Agreed on all of the above.

Also a centrist--by choice--as a presidential candidate and one who has fattened his campaign warchest with millions from corporate interests like the health insurance industry which virtually guarantees that despite all the inspiring possibilities the potential has already been squelched, the possibilities truncated in advance and the results of his Presidency, if elected, almost certain to be very few indeed. Is it worth all of us gushing away in a self congratulatory orgy of good feeling over having a black President when outside of the symbolic value the potential for substantive change is close to zero? I think not.

Obama's decision to oppose the war as a state Senator showed great judgement. Obama's decision to posture himself as a corporate, centrist Democrat showed judgement more oriented toward winning than bringing change. His acceptance of all those millions in corporate cash means he is now a creature of Washington no matter how much he claims he hasn't been around long enough to be tainted. The proof that this is not true is right in front of us all. You cannot serve two masters: one with all the money and power that prevents change and the other being the people who desperately want and need change to reclaim their country and their future. Obama will try and serve the people, but his decision to have it both ways makes certain that his ability to bring change is severely limited in advance because he now owes a great deal to those who not only won't compromise but who will do everything in their power to prevent any meaningful change in healthcare, education, tax policy, the drug industry, the list is really endless and could go on and on.

Yes, Obama's presence on the national political scene brings hope, but it is unlikely it will bring the change we all hope for.

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The economic environment will be more of a challenge, and that won't help. Problems with employment, housing, and credit coupled with increasing fuel prices, declining income, increasing national debt and a hemorrhaging national treasury -- and those are just some of the domestic problems, their solution made more difficult by politicians beholden to corporations. Historically the US has gone into imperial over-reach to distract Americans from domestic problems -- that's scary too.

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oleeb,

excellent points. I've learned long ago to take lightly what a politician says, rather, I wait till I see what he does.

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His acceptance of all those millions in corporate cash means he is now a creature of Washington no matter how much he claims he hasn't been around long enough to be tainted.

I've heard others raise these criticisms of Obama, but I haven't read anything from a reputable journalistic source confirming the case that he is beholden to corporate interests because of huge donations. I've also read things that say just the opposite.

Care to post some links so that I, and anyone else who is curious, can check out the story?

“The healthy man does not torture others — generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers.” ~~ C. G. Jung

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You can't raise money like the amount Obama has raised without being in up to your neck to corporate interests. That's plain as day.

I will offer this from Michael Moore in a letter sent yesterday:

"Bottom line: People have had it. Iowa will go blue (Happy Blue Year, Hawkeyes!). Whomever your candidate is on the Dem side, this was a good night. Get some sleep. The Republicans won't go down without a fight. Look what happened when Kerry tried to play nice. So Barack, you can talk all you want about "let's put the partisanship aside, let's all get along," but the other side has no intention of being anything but the bullies they are. Get your game face on now. And, if you can, tell me why you are now the second largest recipient of health industry payola after Hillary. You now take more money from the people committed to stopping universal health care than any of the Republican candidates."

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oleeb: As much as I admire Moore's filmmaking skills, I still would prefer some sort of citation from a journalistic or other more scientific sort of source stating the case. I've seen different things on this issue, as I mentioned, that are contradictory. For instance, I read a while ago that one of the reasons it may appear that Obama has taken corporate money is the way that donations are categorized, so that a lowly bank teller making an individual donation will have it categorized as being from the banking industry. But that's another claim the accuracy of which I haven't yet been able to track down.

I probably should add that it may be that John Edwards "fight for you" approach will win me over, despite how much I admire Obama as well, so this isn't a rhetorical question for me.  

“The healthy man does not torture others — generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers.” ~~ C. G. Jung

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You are rationalizing and making excuses for Obama's acceptance of what Moore rightly terms "payola". I don't agree with Moore on everything, but if you can disprove (and you cannot) that his statement is true then let's see it. I would remind you that Moore meticulously backs up such statements with documentation ever since Fahrenheit 911 was criticized in ways very similar to yours.

The fact is, Obama is clearly now in the paws of corporate interests, he is not opposing them, he only makes vague, ill-defined calls for change and that's why. If/when elected he will be hamstrung by the deal with the devil he has made in order to win election as the first black President. In fact, he is already far too compromised to implement anything like substantive change on any level of our politics or the policies of the government. You can refuse to face this truth as you and almost all of Obama's supporters are intent upon doing, but you cannot change it.

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You are rationalizing and making excuses for Obama's acceptance of what Moore rightly terms "payola". I don't agree with Moore on everything, but if you can disprove (and you cannot) that his statement is true then let's see it.

Whoa there, oleeb! I'm someone who at the moment is torn between supporting Obama and Edwards and you're not making any points by this accusation. And I asked for reliable journalistic sources - I probably should have asked for primary sources - and, no matter what one may think of Moore, he isn't a journalist. You're the one who made the statements about Obama - you should be the one to provide the evidence to support your statements.

Making a lot of claims, but not backing them up with solid evidence doesn't do Edwards any favor. I'm looking for hard evidence in order to make my decision. Here's some from the Open Secrets.org website 2008 Presidential Race section:

Donations from Lobbyists
Clinton: $567,950
Richardson: $134,950
Obama: $76,859
Edwards: $18,900

So Edwards is the best of the bunch among the remaining Dems, but Obama doesn't appear to be so seriously compromised as you portray him. (A further point in Edwards favor on this issue is that he's stated unambiguously that there will be no lobbyists, at all, serving in his administration.)

Also, the Open Secrets site provides information regarding other major contributors, by industry, but the sidebar indicates that PAC donations aren't separately categorized from individual donations, at least as far as I can tell. This appears to confirm what I had read before: that Obama's donations from individuals may have been unfairly categorized as "corporate" donations merely because the FCC forms require donors to list the industry in which they are employed. It's hard to evaluate this and I hope someone has additional information to contribute.

I probably should add that given the horrible coverage Edwards receives, I can understand why his supporters may be feeling testy.

“The healthy man does not torture others — generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers.” ~~ C. G. Jung

Wordie,

The problem is that there has been too little investigative reporting on this and it is swamped by all of the horse-race, scandal-mongering, personality crap that passes for news.

Obama and Edwards both claim that they reject donations from lobbyists, but Obama seems to be using backdoors to take_lobby_money. Edwards doesn’t take money from special interest groups like Big Pharma and if you look at those industries in the charts you cited, this holds up. He gets big contributions from lawyers/law firms as he admits but I don’t think you can call that an “industry” in the same category as, say, oil and gas.

Personally, I don’t buy Hillary’s (and the Republican) line that all interest groups are the same. The nurses union is not pursuing the same selfish interests as the insurance industry. I don’t know where the small amounts like $15000 from pharma for Edwards come from. These sums must be from $200+ donations from employees in that field. I know that he has given money back when it was reported to be from lobbyists. The 527 groups for Edwards that Obama has been criticizing are union groups.

The main discrepancy between Obama’s rhetoric about special interests and his history is that he has pursued the special interests of special interest groups in the past.

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Don: My apologies for not replying sooner, but I needed some time to mull over the articles. I haven't come to a firm conclusion, but I think the very beginning of the Harper's article (your "past" link) describes what a nagging worry of mine about Obama:

Obama complained of an American culture that “discourages empathy,” in which those in power blame poverty on people who are “lazy or weak of spirit” and believe that “innocent people being slaughtered and expelled from their homes halfway around the world are somebody else’s problem.” He urged the assembled activists to ignore those voices, “not because you have an obligation to those who are less fortunate than you, although I think you do have that obligation . . . but primarily because you have that obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. It’s only when you hitch yourself up to something bigger than yourself that you realize your true potential.”

It was a rousing speech, and Obama is probably the only member of Congress who could have delivered it with any conviction or credibility. When he left the stage and headed toward the hotel exit, he was trailed by a pack of autograph seekers, picture takers, and glad-handers.

Despite its audience and ostensible subject matter, however, Obama’s speech had contained just a single call for political action. This was when he had introduced Mark Pike, a law student who then came bounding across the stage in a green one-piece mechanic’s outfit. As part of a campaign called “Kick the Oil Habit,” Pike was to depart directly from the conference and drive from Washington to Los Angeles in a “flex-fuel” vehicle. “Give it up for Mark!” Obama had urged the crowd, noting that Pike would be refueling only at gas stations that offer E85—which Obama touts as “a clean, renewable, and domestically produced alternative fuel.”

Although the senator did not elaborate, E85 is so called because it is 85 percent ethanol, a product whose profits accrue to a small group of corporate corn growers led by Illinois-headquartered Archer Daniels Midland. Not surprisingly, agribusiness is a primary advocate of E85, as are such automobile manufacturers as Ford, which donated Pike’s car. The automakers love E85 because it allows them to look environmentally correct (“Live Green, Go Yellow,” goes GM’s advertising pitch for the fuel) while producing vehicles, mostly highly profitable and fuel-guzzling SUV and pickup models, that can run on regular gasoline as well as on E85.*1 Obama had essentially marshaled his twenty minutes of undeniably moving oratory to plump for the classic pork-barrel cause of every Midwestern politician. [emphasis mine]

*1. Since producing most domestic ethanol requires large amounts of fossil fuel, and regular gasoline provides about 30 percent more mileage per gallon than E85, it’s arguably preferable from a conservation standpoint to drive a standard gasoline car rather than a flex-fuel vehicle.

I dunno. This still isn't a deal-breaker for me - are there any Senators who don't do this constituent-pleasing sort of appeal? - but it's still a cause for concern. It would be helpful to read Obama's response to the article; a google search turns up lots of articles confirming Obama's support of ethanol (this could also explain some of his huge support in Iowa, it seems to me).

I further note that Obama supports nuclear energy; Edwards does not.

We really need to be addressing these sorts of questions, because if we don't, now, the Republicans certainly will later. Thanks very much for those links.

btw: There's an interesting site, On the Issues, that lists the candidates stands on a wide range of issues. You can check out the positions of both Barack Obama and John Edwards, as well as the other candidates. 

“The healthy man does not torture others — generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers.” ~~ C. G. Jung

I don’t know if you’ll see this, but thanks, Wordie. I like the On the Issues site. You're apprehension about the politics of ethanol and the Corn State might be right (this is an in house oil paper but I think the story is fair).

As far as the campaigns are concerned, I think the promise to reject lobby/special interest money is very complicated and can be spun from many angles. And I hesitate to down rate a candidate like Obama who can say so many right things and can bring people together after this rending of the American fabric these past seven years.

But I have to say that his hypocrisy as he stumps against lobbyists, which is probably not so bad as far as D.C. politicians go, is a red flag to me. I understand you have to play the game or you aren’t allowed in, but he seems to be running as someone he is not.

Maybe I'm wrong and he will really fight the power structure in D.C. If so, he needs to start that fight now, before the election, if he's going to have a chance. I think we're at a pivotal point where we can take our country back or, perhaps, get locked into this new dark age for the average working stiff in this country. That said, I may not know who I’m voting for until I pull the lever.

Oh, I cracked up when I read this in the Harper’s article:

Meanwhile, Obama, Durbin, and three other farm-state senators opposed a proposal this year by the Bush Administration to lower stiff tariffs on cheaper sugarcane-based ethanol from Brazil and other countries. To lower such tariffs, the senators suggested, would leave the nation dangerously dependent on foreign ethanol.

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oleeb, that was a cowardly piece of sophistry on your part. You're hurling accusations and the only thing you can offer as proof is "Michael Moore said it and you can't prove it isn't true...". Thanks for lowering the level of dialogue to the point where Mitt Romney can't get under it...

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Centrist? No. I wholeheartedly disagree. If you look at his voting record, his policy details, and his record in the Illinois legislature you will see is not centrist. What he is able to do from the left is real in independents and some conservatives. As noted elsewhere, that is something of a mirror image of Reagan, and a welcome one at this time.

``...Stand still. The forest knows
Where you are. You must let it find you.''


from `Lost' by David Wagoner

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"The thing I love about this country most is that we are not racially based. People may be racist but no one says that a black American is not really an American. A Turk can't really be a German. A Jew can't really be a Swede. And an Arab can't really be an Israeli."

While I share your enthusiasm with Obama, the foregoing makes no sense. There are, I'm fairly certain, Turks, Jews, and Arabs who are in fact German, Swede, or Israeli citizens.

Relax the campaign is far from over. I'm afraid we'll have to wait until Feb. 5th.

Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

To me, German means ethnic first, unless one is referring to a role such as soldiers or engineers.

"Turkish German" or "German Turk" is how one sees it in print. It is not usually hyphenated, is it? I usually see "Israeli Arabs", not "Arab-Israelis".

American identity began as somewhat various, because it was rootless, i.e. we were all colonists. So we don't have "American Germans" but "German-Americans".

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German, it seems to me, refers to one's nationality, not one's ethnic derivation. Likewise Swedish, and Israeli.

American doesn't refer to a particular ethnic derivation so why should it as referring those residing in other countries? Besides Germans, before the immigration of Turks, Jews, Swedes, etc to Germany, were comprised of various ethnic groups, weren't they?

Further, most Israelis are not of Simetic origin. So what will you call Israelis?

Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

altho we do still have (a few) "American Indians" who are not "Indian-Americans" and who were not rootless until we uprooted and exterminated most of them ...

American identity seems to continue variously or variably partly depending on which 'other people' in the world are selected as our current threat or enemy and how we go about trying to 'pacify' or eliminate them ...

so that some see us as the necessarily dominant force in the world, bestowing democracy everywhere in our ruthlessly benevolent wake of liberating death and destruction ...

which to many, if not most others, of course, is insane delusion and ultimately self-destructive

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To me, German means ethnic first

Mighty fine but MJ talked about race. Race is biological, not sociological.

How the hell did Obama become a black man? Are we into apartheid or something?

Well yeah there are a lot of people that think only in such terms.

we were all colonists.

So then it is your contention that my wife's Cherokee ancestor was a colonist? Way back before recorded history perhaps but don't you think that is a rather huge stretch.

Were the Africans and Irish and Chinese brought to this hemisphere as slaves colonists you think?

Lots of ugly from MJ this time. Pity. I like MJ though I don't always agree. This time he is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Best, Terry

Of course the "we" is the mainly British population. 

Race is only superficially biological, like robust bondes that tan well (many Germans and Scandinavians).

It is precisely because Native Americans are native, not immigrant, that they are not hyphenated into "Aboriginal-Americans".

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Race is only superficially biological

To racists.

Race is in your very genes.

like robust bondes that tan well (many Germans and Scandinavians).

Are you aware that Scandinavians can be distinguished from Germans by a substantial East Asian ancestry?

Don't suppose.

Race is very powerful in fighting disease, in tracing history, in forensics. It is worse than useless in the hands of ignorant racists who deny science.

Best, Terry

Look at your first two lines, the quote and your "To racists." Most of us think it is the opposite, that race only matters to racists.

Geneticists tend to discount race as a useful concept, but concentrate on sub-groups instead. African means much less than Masai or Kikuyu. For example, sickle-cell anemia is considered associated with Africans, but a better predictor is proximity to malarial waters, so it shows up in Mediterranean Europeans, too.

Who is denying science? Don't suppose. Better yet, don't assume, it makes an Ass out of U and Me.

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Geneticists tend to discount race as a useful concept

Hogwash.

but concentrate on sub-groups instead.

One of those subgroups is racial admixture.

But it is not your idiot racial stereotype.

sickle-cell anemia is considered associated with Africans, but a better predictor is proximity to malarial waters

And the reason for a pocket of sickle cell anemia in Minnesota is?

In fact one theory given for the decline of the Roman Empire is malaria but malaria was also once endemic in North America yet there was no sickle cell anemia known among Native Americans.

The origin of sickle cell anemia around the Mediterranean is in dispute but there is no dispute that "African" as a racial class of any kind is laughable. Africa, like every other continent, has a mix of races.

Children of South Asian parents are underdiagnosed with cystic fibrosis, "the caucasian disease," because some, like yourself, think only in terms of skin color and sociological claptrap to define race rather than genetic inheritance.

Obama, like all of us, is mixed race. When you and your ilk learn that, we will have elevated dialogue and society to a higher level and we can address the benefits of genetics instead of being horrified by it and mischaracterizing it.

Best, Terry

You're incoherent. What is my ilk? Do you think I'm a racist? I'm arguing against race as a useful concept, genetically.

I'm hardly afraid of genetics in discussions. You must not know my writing here.

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Do you think I'm a racist? I'm arguing against race as a useful concept, genetically.

And that's the precise problem.

I'm hardly afraid of genetics in discussions.

Genes, both good and bad, are inherited from ancestors last I heard.

And that's what defines race.

When race is defined as the color of one's skin or the level of intelligence or the degree of criminality, then that is pure racism.

When racial admixture is defined by the alleles in the genes that is quite different.

When the FDA tells doctors that "Asians" are particularly susceptible to muscle wasting side effects of Lipitor, they are imparting little useful information and some that can sometimes be deadly. If instead the FDA defined what these Asians might be, then they might save both life and health.

To date the FDA has rejected all attempts to scientifically measure racial admixture but yet they demand that clinical trials separate volunteers by race. The race is self identified meaning that it has the same limited utility and can cause the same harm as the advice by the FDA that Asians, whatever they might be, are susceptible to the muscle wasting side effects of Lipitor.

It is much the same in many other areas but particularly pernicious in medicine.

Good to define terms instead of spouting racist mythology that has little to do with reality.

Racial hangups do great harm to this country and others. Denial is not exactly helpful.

Best, Terry

What is the "racist mythology" I'm "spouting"?

I agree FDA should be precise in its recommendations. Where do I differ from you? You're succeeding in confusing me utterly.

When I say I'm against using race as a genetic concept I mean exactly what you say, that real genetics, not vague shorthand, should be used.

Now stop insulting me or I'll get actually pissed off.

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You're succeeding in confusing me utterly.

Not trying to.

Consider this:

I met another Vietnam veteran on a bus after visiting my father as he had visited his I guess. We told each other the usual lies as all veterans do and mentioned family in passing. Both our fathers were Irish immigrants from a town that once had many.

So we were the same race right?

Well not exactly. My mother was a Finn. His was an Indian.

So somehow magically he was an Indian while I was Irish.

I know nothing about his mother but I am reasonably confident my mother was not of Finnish ancestry at all though she spoke Finnish. Her mother was almost surely a Saami, not so coincidentally I think born in Lapland. Her father looked like a Swede though it would have been unhealthy to tell him so since Swedes tend to be very large and Finns have no sense of humor. Quite likely the other "Irishman's" mother's ancestry was also mixed.

To a sociologist I am Irish and he is Indian. Make any sense to you?

It is not really different with Obama or most anybody you can name.

That racial admixture makes us what we are rather than the boxes sociologists and politicians and reporters and other purveyors of claptrap put us in.

When I vote for Obama as I expect I will in the general election now, I will not be voting for an African-American or Irishman or anything but my preferred candidate that I hope can lead us out of the mess that idiots put is in.

Intelligence and competence and originality and honesty is what I think politicians should be judged on rather than racist claptrap.

What exactly is it that you find difficult to understand?

Now stop insulting me or I'll get actually pissed off.

Done. :-)

Have a good day.

Best, Terry

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Geneticists tend to discount race as a useful concept

Hogwash.

but concentrate on sub-groups instead.

One of those subgroups is racial admixture.

But it is not your idiot racial stereotype.

sickle-cell anemia is considered associated with Africans, but a better predictor is proximity to malarial waters

And the reason for a pocket of sickle cell anemia in Minnesota is?

In fact one theory given for the decline of the Roman Empire is malaria but malaria was also once endemic in North America yet there was no sickle cell anemia known among Native Americans.

The origin of sickle cell anemia around the Mediterranean is in dispute but there is no dispute that "African" as a racial class of any kind is laughable. Africa, like every other continent, has a mix of races.

Children of South Asian parents are underdiagnosed with cystic fibrosis, "the caucasian disease," because some, like yourself, think only in terms of skin color and sociological claptrap to define race rather than genetic inheritance.

Obama, like all of us, is mixed race. When you and your ilk learn that, we will have elevated dialogue and society to a higher level and we can address the benefits of genetics instead of being horrified by it and mischaracterizing it.

Best, Terry

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Only in America?

What do you make of Peruvians twice electing Alberto Fujimori as President? Or India having a Muslim President and a Sikh Prime Minister?

Good point.

Without detracting from Ron's good points, I'd like to share some family (well, inlaw) things of which I'm rather proud, and also an anecdote and a bit more that I find inspiring.

One of my inlaws, that I sadly never met, was BG Noel Parrish. He was the main trainer of the Tuskegee Airmen. By all accounts, he was an absolutely strict disciplinarian that demanded excellence, but also judged people by character, not color. There is a tradition in Airmen meetings (they are continuing into new generations) that when his name is mentioned for the first time, there is a standing ovation.

We are trying to connect with someone in the Airmen, because they don't know the full story. They know he was a white southerner. What they don't know is that he was ostracized by his immediate family, who generally felt the Klan was too liberal on race. For Noel to rise above that amazes and impresses me.

I had known that another inlaw, Commodore Ben Wyatt, had been the WWII US Naval Attache to Spain. Only recently, documents have revealed that he was working with Raoul Wallenberg and other diplomats, running an "underground railroad" to get as many Jews as they could out of German reach.

Not in America, but a profound experience if you haven't been there, is the Museum of the Resistance in Copenhagen. The Danish Resistance would accept recognition at Yad Vashem only as a group, because they maintained they simply were doing the right things to get their Jewish neighbors to safety.

Benjamin O. Davis Sr. was an early black general, ostracized at West Point. After commissioning, he was sent to as racist a Southern post as possible. One day, some enlisted men passed him without saluting, and he called them back. He pointed to the seal of the US on his uniform buttons, and suggested that he didn't much care what they thought of him, but, if they didn't show respect to the symbol of their country...well, in the Indian tradition, it was a good day to die.

Apropos of some of the latter, for anyone that ever has the chance, visit the Buffalo Soldiers museum at Ft. Huachucha, which is about 65 miles away from a city of any size. While Huachuca isn't the middle of nowhere, you can see that from the roof of the officers' club. Beautiful country, though.

I bring this up because one of the things that comes through, from going through that history, is the immense self-respect and pride of the 10th Cavalry and other units of its time.

These anecdotes are not meant to say they are good things for a particular race, but they are fine examples for the human race.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

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The stories of the collective consciousness are the ways we organize meaning as a community. Someone posted about the "original sin" of JFK's assassination, the thwarted hope of an American rebirth. For me 1968 was the beginning of our exile and wandering in despair. I turned 20 years of age.

1968- Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy murdered
The Democratic Convention thwarts the will of the people.
Richard Nixon is elected and the war in Vietnam continues for years to come.
(Some few may remember in Dec. 1968 Thomas Merton, monk and peace activist, suffered an untimely death, electrocuted by an electric fan accident in Bangkok, Thailand.)

1968- 2008 - 40 years of wandering in the wilderness

Barack Obama- Can he be the one to lead us home to the America we can hope for again?

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JFK made me feel good, not because I felt he was going to go around the world kicking ass, but because I felt he was going to go around the world helping the downtrodden.

And through that image, we could believe America was doing the same thing -- take the Peace Corps, for example.

The image JFK projected was a positive extension of our role as liberators in WW2, and a positive way to present America relative to the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

There were bad things going on between both side below the surface, between the CIA and KGB -- and JFK had inherited the use of paramilitaries in Laos and elsewhere from Eisenhower -- but in the main, the Kennedy administration's outlook was positive, forward, and affirmed the best in us.

(Incidentally, I can't help but think that if Richard Nixon had been presented with the Cuban Missile Crisis in the wake of a failed Bay of Pigs invasion -- I wouldn't be here to have this conversation, nor would several hundreds of millions of other human beings; I was growing up seven miles from a major Minuteman missile field.)

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Actually, Nixon was around during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Fortunately, Kissinger and others defused the situation by basically keeping Tricky Dicky out of the loop, because he was dysfunctional because of the Watergate investigation. Otherwise we both might not be here to have this conversation.  See Anthony Summers book about Nixon,The Arrogance of Power.

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The only thing Obama does for me is make me believe that Democrats will once again nominate the wrong person for the wrong reasons. But at least the speeches will be really good. He'll suck up to Republicans, stand tall with homophobes, push right wing frames and empty, meaningless nonpartisanship, but at least a buncha people will feel good about it. Bleh.

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Have you seen in the last couple of days Clinton and her folks indicating that Obama is too "liberal", whatever that means?

Strive for the ideal, but deal with what's real.

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On NPR this morning, someone offered the following comment:
There are two narratives in this country. One is the immigrant narrative, the other is the slave narrative. Barak Obama follows the immigrant narrative.

I suspect that if Barak Obama's ancestors had been slaves, he would not have achieved his current level of prominence, no matter how talented.

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I suspect that if Barak Obama's ancestors had been slaves, he would not have achieved his current level of prominence, no matter how talented.

Obama's Irish ancestors have done rather well whether they came as slaves or free men and women.

Best, Terry

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Two points.

First, on the idea that America is not defined by race or religion.

I totally agree. But we have to recognize that a significant portion of our fellow citizens do not agree.

Bill O'Reilly talking with Saint John McCain:

But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you're a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have.

Second, on the Kennedy quote.

Lincoln referred to the United States, or more specifically "the Union," as the last, best hope of earth.

Kennedy used the "last best hope" phrase in reference to the United Nations in his inaugural address.

(I'd posted this at another site, but will repeat myself here:)

You either believe in the actual promise of the idea of The United States Of America, or not.

That means if a woman, or an African-American, a Chinese- or Japanese- or Vietnamese-American, or a Latino, or a Caucasian is elected President of the United States... they should be considered the President, first and foremost. Not their race, or ethnicity. Not their gender.

As Americans -- what else are we here for, if we don't first believe that all citizens are created equal, before each other, and under the law?

I don't support either Obama or Clinton in the primaries -- but if either of them becomes a candidate, and then the President, I'll be the last person to think of them, using some racial profile, or their gender, when considering them as the leader of this country.

The students of Josef Goebbels on the Right have been sliming Hillary simply for for being herself, and a woman: Goldberg and Malkin, Coulter, Limbaugh, Wiener, and O'Reilly, and the local, minor-league radio wanabees who echo whatever line the big boys take.

Now, they're starting to talk about Obama; about his race. People like this (particularly Malkin, who is not only a woman but a person of color) are beneath contempt -- not because of any politically correct notion of politics, but because we're all intelligent enough to recognize what these people are saying.

They don't believe in a unifying vision of America. The message they spew is based only on division, on racial and misogynistic separation, fear and hatred -- all of it contemptuous of the actual ideals of this country, and ignorant of all but the worst in two hundred-plus years of our history.

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I see Rosenberg along with the likes of Marc Cooper is suffering from an outbreak of Norman Rockwellism, the painting, for one, of the working man in brown jacket at New England townhall meeting looking piously if not beatifically and trustingly up to undefined but clearly implied higher authority out of the frame as one of many defining images of American democracy Rockwell gave us in his depictions of an absurdly sentimental and warm hearted American patriotism re the body politic that is utterly fictional. For the right, Americans are indeed defined by race. Read you not the Novak column on how the Democratic party would be nothing were it not for the inauthentic citizens--blacks--who let it win elections on occasion? The pathology, the core Hatred, the core emotion of the right, is on the march--NR writer already talking of the madrassa in the White House. Read Zinn, keep up with Glenn Greenwald. The Hatred of the right is ontological and defined in the sliming and dirty tricks and utter contempt for the rule of law. No time to get mushy or become infatuated with what we imagine we see in the mirror. Imagine the depth of racism and racial hatred an Obama national candidacy will evoke. The core poisons of racial and political hatred will pump up the right--including among the Christianists --with Obama on the scene. His rhetoric of hope will drive them batso regardless of how purely rhetorical it actually is the face of corporations, right wing judges, and a craven sold out press.

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"His rhetoric of hope will drive them batso regardless of how purely rhetorical it actually is the face of corporations, right wing judges, and a craven sold out press."

 

Which is why Obama needs really good security from the Secret Service.  RFK and JFK were the last two politicians who were this charasmatic. And they, of course, were both assassinated.

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OK, I get the fear, but the secret service is pretty good, and getting better. The last POTUS shot at was Reagan. Bad, yes, but that was 27 years ago.

And look how they dealt with Falafel man today!


``...Stand still. The forest knows
Where you are. You must let it find you.''


from `Lost' by David Wagoner

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I"m trying to believe in Obama. But so far, I'm sorry guys, I just can't see it. He strikes me as just another politician, and one that I'm not sure has the stomach for the fight I think the next president will need to bring about things like universal health care and a square deal for the middle class. And I don't get the difference between his new brand of (supposedly) non-confrontational politics and the triangulation of the past that he disdains.

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So, whether or not you believe in a landmass is contingent upon whether or not your 'faith' is
catered to by a bureaucrat?
What a load of tripe and drivel.
'America' is in fact that, a landmass. It
stretches from the North Pole, where there is
no Santa Claus, to the South Pole, where there
are, we're told, penguins and drunken researchers
and a shanty left over from the time of Ernest
Shackleton. The North Pole is also the fabled
home of AlBore's famous drowning polar bears.
Don't drink and swim, there, Mr. Bear. And, wait
and hour after eating.
I haven't read all that much about JFK, I know
he was in office at the time of the Cuban missile
crisis, I know he once dated Marylin Monroe, who
later turned up dead from an 'overdose' or
something, and he died from a magic bullet or
something. Usually, those get reserved for
vampires, or more likely in his case, religious
heretics that don't kiss the papal ring, but
that's a case for another conspiracy story.
Anyway, back to our landmass: Turning to our
handy map, always useful at the writing table,
we discover that not only is America broken up
into two distinct areas, North America and
South America, but that it is further subdivided
into sections called 'countries', and from there
broken down into states, counties, voting districts, down to the individual tax lots,
ultimately separating you from your hard-earned
cash. Something like that. Anywho, these 'nation'
things tend to go on and on and on, ours has been
around roughly in its' current form since about
oh, 1860 or so, with a few final touches here
and there to round out the 50 states as we know
and love(?) them today. Since its' inception
back in the 1700's, this country has undergone
several changes of management, some of them
better at the overall job of keeping the country
glued together than others, each management 'team' facing the unique challenges
of their time, be it chasing the redcoats back
to britain, the japanese back across the pacific,
the russians out of the carribean, or Osama Bin
Laden wherever it is that he got off to.
I believe that, despite our current challenges
such as they might be, the country will lumber
forward, firmly anchored to the continent to
which it seems to be attached, dutifully following the other well-developed landmasses
through yet another thrilling rotation and
subsequent orbit around the sun, and next year,
it'll all happen all over again, up until the
Mystery Meteor of 2029 puts a quick halt to
THAT action. People will be born, people will
live, people will pay taxes, people will hate
the management, and ultimately people will
die, at which point they'll be taxed a-GAIN,
then someone else comes along and fills in
the hole and much later, high school kids
come along and either steal or deface the
gravestone, or both, depending on how bored
they are. And, thus, yet another generation
will make its' mark upon the earth, not only
in 'America'(see details above), but throughout
the world, just like they've been doing for the
last 20-30K years or so, just minus the Tivo.

Now, as far as presidential candidates, or more
accurately, Pandidates go, choose your poison
there, myself I like Ron Paul, because even
though he more or less proclaims himself a
True Believer, I think he's smart enough to
pretty much 'track' everything I've said and
not denounce me as a witch or a crackhead.

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