Iraq vs. Vietnam
Note: The following argument is based on the authors article “Viet Not,” recently published in the Winter 2008 issue of Democracy: A Journal of Ideas. The article can be read in its entirety at www.democracyjournal.org.
As public support for the Iraq war has dwindled, and momentum has gathered in Congress for a substantial drawdown of troops, President Bush and some of his supporters have revived the argument that congressional Democrats prevented the American military from finishing a war that the United States could have won in Vietnam. In fact, an American victory in Vietnam was always unlikely, and the Vietnam War’s high political costs resulted from withdrawing not too soon but too late.
By 1969, with American dead and wounded mounting in an effort that appeared increasingly futile, the U.S. public no longer supported the Vietnam War. The United States, however, morbidly delayed its exit, expanding the war to Cambodia and stepping up the air campaign against the North. It didn’t work.
Having spent all of his domestic political capital on Cambodia, President Nixon negotiated with Hanoi from weakness. The 1972 Paris Peace Accords required a wholesale American pullout in exchange for a North Vietnamese cease-fire, but did not require the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) to withdraw from South Vietnam. Its patience exhausted, Congress would not authorize funds to equip the Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) sufficiently to repel a major NVA offensive, and banned all U.S. military activity in Southeast Asia. The decisive offensive came in 1975. South Vietnam surrendered unconditionally in April, as American helicopters staged an unforgettably shambolic and tragic evacuation.
South Vietnam’s hard landing and the United States’ ignominious exit were not inevitable. If, soon after the Tet Offensive in 1968, Washington had seriously offered Hanoi a phased withdrawal for an open-ended cease-fire, Saigon’s position could have been strengthened and casualties reduced. The White House might have secured the political capital necessary to convince Congress to provide the support required for the ARVN to reach parity with the NVA and South Vietnam’s civil institutions to develop. Saigon might then have salvaged a stalemate. Even if not, American prestige would not have suffered to the extent that it did in 1975. What derogated it most was not America’s failure to win the war, but rather its foolish commitment to a losing strategy that foreclosed the possibility of an honorable draw or even a negotiated defeat.
North Vietnam’s population was ethnically and religiously largely homogeneous and united behind its government, while the South Vietnamese were broadly disillusioned by a decadent government. In contrast, Iraq is fiercely heterogeneous, both religiously and ethnically, and in the midst of a civil war. Moreover, whereas the South Vietnamese insurgency stemmed from agrarian hardship and was partly remediable by U.S.-assisted land reform and modernization initiatives, the Iraqi insurgency derives from deepening intercommunal enmities and the American military presence itself. Even if by some measures counterinsurgency is finally working – as it was in Vietnam in 1970–72 – as long as U.S. troops remain in Iraq, American political efforts are bound to be frustrated.
The Bush administration, like the Johnson and Nixon administrations, is creating the illusion that we are winning on points through military advances while suppressing the likelihood that the insurgency’s resiliency, Iraqi military inadequacy, and Iraqi political dysfunction will combine to inflict a knockout punch. Iraq is strategically more important than Vietnam was, so the U.S. cannot afford to abandon or ostracize Iraq as it did Vietnam. But contrary to Bush Administration supporters and conservative pundits, this does not mean that any form of U.S. withdrawal from Iraq will have terrible and persistent consequences – namely, an all-out Sunni/Shia war; the emboldenment of Iran, Hezbollah, and al-Qaeda; and diminished energy security. Those consequences are much more likely to arise from a panicky exit springing from continued American futility. Consequently, the Vietnam experience counsels not staying put but rather minimizing the U.S. military presence soon, while still promoting political progress in Iraq and regional stability. No cost-free solution exists; any “victory” would achieve far less than what was originally envisioned by the war’s architects and strongest defenders. But a strategic withdrawal would constitute a mature response to what has become an obviously futile quest and to the American people’s loss of trust and confidence in the way the war has been conducted.
The U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam in 1973–75 proved so divisive because conservatives pushed a who-lost-the-war myth condemning Democrats and war protesters. Yet in fact, U.S. involvement ultimately exceeded what the public would tolerate. A timely disengagement might have permitted security and stability in Southeast Asia. Instead, U.S. military escalation spread violence to Laos and Cambodia, hardened the communist Khmer Rouge’s resistance against pro-U.S. Cambodian leader Lon Nol, and lent momentum to Pol Pot’s genocidal designs. Then a frenzied U.S. withdrawal doomed Saigon. These things happened because we left too late rather than too soon.
Comparable things could happen with respect to Iraq. If we do not exercise strategic discretion and design a near-term military disengagement that incorporates residual U.S. support for Iraq, we are likely to be forced – by domestic opinion at least as much as facts on the ground in Iraq – into a Vietnam-esque withdrawal that leaves no room for such support for Iraq and diminished American standing throughout the world. That fate is the one we tempt by keeping troops in Iraq when their presence there cannot secure America’s interests and only weakens the United States’ strategic position. At the end of the day, America’s allies value, and its adversaries fear, not its persistence in a dubious policy that is unlikely to serve its own interests, but its preservation of viable strategic options.
Steven Simon is the Hasib J. Sabbagh Senior Fellow for Middle East Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. Jonathan Stevenson is a professor of strategic studies at the U.S. Naval War College.













Conservatives love to talk about personal responsibility but as soon as one steps up and accepts some, he is hounded out swiftly, like Goldwater.
These folks wouldn't accept any responsibility for China going Communist, for not winning outright in Korea, for losing in Vietnam, for losing Iran (or for manipulating it in the first place), for trashing the economy in the 80s, for committing the country to a disastrous dependence on more and more oil...
Sorry, I got carried away. While liberals can perhaps be faulted for too much breast-beating, how about at least a hint of slight embarrassment from conservatives, whose policies have nothing to show for every attempt, except failure.
December 18, 2007 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
On Taking Responsibility
Mr Wright, (a great name!), thanks for your comment on taking responsibility.
If this was ever a part of American political culture, it no longer is. It would be wrong, however, to brand refusal to take responsibility as a peculiarly political sin. It's part-and-parcel of a larger trend, stemming from developments ultimately rooted in the experience of the 1960s, in which the greatest good was defined as self esteem and larger forces -- psychological, social, economic -- were thought to determine individuals' choices. Perhaps it's a baby-boomer trend that's now become entrenched in our culture.
There are of course memorable exceptions: By apologizing on nationwide television before the 9/11 Commission for letting down the American people, Richard Clarke -- a hitherto obscure civil servant -- became a national hero. The attention garnered by his apology was due largely to the fact that we never hear anyone apologize anymore, even for truly grievous mistakes (or worse).
December 18, 2007 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have too much practice attemting to live up to the name; warn me about impending insufferability, it's quite common.
I have not seen a major corporate, religious, or political figure resign simply because things weren't going well. Sometimes they will bow out if indicted for felonies, or caught in flagrante delicto, or if the business goes down in flames. But it pretty much takes utter disaster.
And there is a particular political version, in which one doesn't resign even when utter disaster ensues (Iraq). Here the resonance with Vietnam is strong, in that accepting defeat is too hard, after WW II, I guess. Instead pols will double-down and keep throwing dice until the joint closes.
December 18, 2007 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clarke's apology? I listened to it live, and it smelled like grandstanding to me.
Well, what can we expect. The poor fellow's a product of that "baby-boomer trend that's now become entrenched in our culture."
December 18, 2007 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
. . . an obviously futile quest . . . . ?
Depends on what you're questing after, now, doesn't it?
December 18, 2007 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems to me that the Vietnam War is not a useful analog to the war in Iraq. Clearly, the better comparison is with the Pequot War, and I, for one, can barely wait for our authors' sequel or, as it may be, prequel -- "Pequot Not."
December 18, 2007 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
These people make me sick. If Bush, Cheney and these other numbskulls thought Vietnam was so winnable, why didn't they join up and go over there and "finish the job"? Instead, Cheney was chasing deferrment after deferrment and GWB was flying around protecting Texas from Mexico.
December 18, 2007 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's interesting to consider what was important in an insurgency where the government won: the Phillipines, when Ramon Magsaysay was Defense Minister and eventually President. In reading some notes from the period, he regarded one of his most important assets were airplanes.
No, not combat aircraft. Aircraft that would take him personally to remote villages, often enough that even a rural population began to think someone in the capital cared about them. If he'd see a problem that needed fixing (e.g., a well, or medical care), he'd fly the appropriate team there, either on their own aircraft -- although he'd show up randomly.
Obviously, he couldn't be constantly in the field -- but enough of his time was at the district level so he could make an effort to root out corruption. It was never gone completely, but, again, the word got out that he was trying. There were occasions where he and guerillas would meet under safe conduct, and talk about each other.
Eventually, when he became President, one of his first acts was to throw open the gates of the Presidential Palace, and ask the people to come into their house.
Unless the South Vietnamese had the perception that their government was interested, and was at least trying to deal with corruption, all the world's militaries couldn't have "won".
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]
December 18, 2007 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Philippines did not suffer from Iraq's fractionating tribal structure, and the religious difference between the majority Catholics and the Mindanao Muslims was at least only a two-way split. The Communists were never as bad a problem as the Muslims, and the Communists at least kept the Philippine government on its toes and concerned about the people because if they weren't, the Communists would be. The other significant insurrection was the pirates of Zamboanga who simply wanted to continue to live as pirates as their families had done for centuries, and were no real threat to the government.
I can't imagine that George Bush, even today, gives a shit about what happens to the average Iraqi, any more than he cares about the average American. Bush had to be dragged into New Orleans well after the flood waters went down because his absence had become politically more damaging - to him personally - than not going. Even then he simply made promises he never kept. He wouldn't take a plane anywhere except for a political photo-op.
The denizens of the Green Zone, both American and Iraqi, have not displayed any more concern for the Iraqis. Bush is directly and personally responsible for destroying what was previously at least a functioning nation.
In 1968 I was stationed with the Army in Germany, and took a two week leave to Barcelona, Spain (then still under Franco.) I remember at the bar in the center of the campground talking to one Brit who had lived through WW II and was vacationing in Spain. When I told him I was living in Germany, he responded that he wouldn't be able to stand being there, near all those Germans, because of what they had done during the War.
With a population estimated at slightly under 27,500,000 in 2007, Iraq has at least 2,000,000 external refugees and another 2,000,000 or more internal refugees. Our invasion triggered a set of civil wars, and facilitated a period of general banditry and warlordism.
I seriously doubt that very many Iraqis will view Americans even as positively as that Brit viewed Germans. With Kurds, Sunni, two major groups of Shiites and the Iranians, Turks, Syrians and Saudi Arabians all stirring the pot, it seems unlikely to me that someone like Magsaysay would even know where to land the plane, let alone survive to actually do something positive.
To top it off, we don't have enough troops to deal with all that, but we have too many not to make the problems worse.
Essentially Bush's invasion created an unsolvable mess that is a lot like Somalia, but a lot larger and more strategically significant to America - and to every nation near Iraq. It's going to last longer than Somalia, too. It's far past anything where something like Magsaysay's plane would be of any value.
December 18, 2007 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
~
The Golden Hour Has Long Passed
Losing the Golden Hour: An Insider's View of Iraq's Reconstruction
by: James Stephenson
~OGD~
December 23, 2007 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe they should have moved all American troops to an area of Saigon, walled it in, and announced it safe from the NLF (excuse me, terrorists) and proof that we're winning. We'd still be there now.
John
http://www.haberarts.com/
December 18, 2007 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The better analogy may be to the war in Algeria from 1954-1962. Using a strong (and expensive)military presence and vile anti-terrorist measures (including torture)the French were able to "win" the battle of Algiers and calm the insurgency. But the cost was unsustainable. The French economy struggled under the burden. It was not liberated until the end of the war when it blossomed into 30 years of more or less uninterrupted economic growth.
Lesson: it is possible for a foreign occupier to win against an insurgency, but the cost is probably unsustainable. Was it the North Vietnamese who drove us out of South Viet Nam, or our own economic problems with inflation and stagflation? Expect the economy, the dollar, and the deficit to send us out of Iraq long before the insurgents ever do.
December 18, 2007 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, yes - and the collapse of the housing bubble together with the credit crisis has set off a recession that even now is building and will become really significant in 2008. So will the inflation that the increase in the price of oil and imports is causing. Remember the stagflation that Ford tried to beat with his Whip Inflation Now buttons and handed off to Carter? Same pattern.
Carter beat the stagflation the only way possible. He appointed Paul Volker to the Federal Reserve in 1979, and Paul started the recession of 1980 - 83 that finally beat inflationary expectations when everyone realized he really wouldn't let the economy off its knees until inflation was well and truly defeated.
Bernanke will have to fight the inflation (raise interest rates)rather than the recession (lower interest rates.) So the next couple of years are going to be rocky economically. Plan on it. The coming recession has grown out of government mismanagement of Iraq. The occupation of Iraq is a Republican War, and the coming recession is a Republican recession.
At least we all know who to blame for the suffering. George Bush, the Republican Congress, and Alan Greenspan.
December 18, 2007 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Naturally, madison. That's the whole point of an insurgency. Insurgents don't win, they make the other side quit.
December 18, 2007 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Calling the Iraqi fiasco an "insurgency" is an erroneous simplification of a complex situation, and this complexity is complicating any US withdrawal, which seems to be the intent. Heck, not seems to be, it is. Divide and conquer, and occupy forever.
In Iraq there are many conflicts: Sunni/Sunni(AQI),Shia/Shia (Badr/Mahdi), Shia/Sunni, arab/kurd, and of course Iraqi/US fighting. Very little of the violence is a revolt against the government, or insurgency.
In any case as the US "withdraws" the Iraqi army that the US has been training and equipping will take its place--that's the plan anyhow. The reality seems to be somewhat different and even different on different days, depending on the narrator.
General Slatter, Dec 7: "And as General Ham just indicated, today, there's 108 Iraqi army battalions [25 brigades! 8 divisions!!] that are either in the lead or on independent operations. And that is a dramatic change over a three- year period."
General Fil, Dec 17: "It's clear that pulling out too quickly before the Iraqis are truly able to take over these areas independently would be very risky and there are some areas in the city where at this point it would fail," Fil said. "They are simply not ready to stand entirely on their own."
An Iraqi officer, Sep: “In four years, the MOD [Ministry of Defense] has given my soldiers one uniform each. Last month, I got 300 [pairs] boots for 600 soldiers. I’m supposed to give each soldier one boot? I drive eight hours to Baghdad to get my soldiers’ pay. Last week, I drove to Basra for gas,” he said. “We need water and food. Who gives it us? [USMC] Colonel Mundy. My soldier gets killed here, it is ignored. Not like you Americans. The government doesn’t even know the 2d Brigade is out here in the desert.”
ecotourism
WeGoEco.com
December 18, 2007 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Sun Tzu in the "Art of War" says all Wars are lost or won before the fighting begins.
Graham Greene published the "Quiet America" in 1954 successfully predicting the subsequent 20 years of History in Vietnam. He came up with the theory almost two years earlier.
The stab in the back meme is a favorite of all far right wing ideologues, especially the Nazis. What's worse is the sense of entitlement that meme gives them when they gain the power to stab back. In the case of the Nazis they did this to horrible effect.
Sun Tzu's right. We weren't stabbed in the back, we stabbed ourselves in the foot.
He that hath a trade, hath an estate - from Poor Richards Almanac - Benjamin Franklin
December 18, 2007 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your statement about the Paris accords requiring a complete withdrawal of US troops seems to me to miss the point that US troops had mostly been withdrawn by that time anyway.
In fact, as I understand it, in the 1973 assault by the North on the South, it was mostly South Vietnames troops that beat back the attack with the assistance of American air power. So that suggests that if America had provided air power in the later assault after the Paris accord, the South could have prevailed.
In fact, you seem to concede as much in this paragraph:
So a stalemate was possible. We just lacked the political will. That's the conservative argument -- in essence that we could have won or at least not lost, if we'd had the political will to continue supporting South Vietnam militarily even if we did so with only air power.
Who's fault it was that we lost the political will -- whether it was White House lies and broken promises and staying too long or the result of anti-war protesters -- is altogether different question. Conflating the two comes across to me as a way to obscure the fact that Congress' ban on all military involvement in South Vietnam in 1974 was a blunder that may have been the primary cause of the downfall of South Vietnam.
December 19, 2007 9:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unless the Republic of Vietnam ended massive corruption and became more responsive to the people of South Vietnam, all the military forces of NATO could have been sent there, beaten back the North Vietnamese, and the insurgency would have restarted as soon as the troops left.
In contrast with South Vietnam, South Korea, in a similar situation, has, with the occasional coup, a democratic government. The 1955 presidential election in South Vietnam was highly suspect. After Diem's overthrow, various military juntas ran the country, and the government never had legitimacy, on a national level, in the eyes of its population. While North Vietnam was unquestionably a totalitarian state, many of the people identified with Ho Chi Minh.
Apropos of stalemate, remember that Ho, in 1945-1947, asked for US help in gaining independence from France. The OSS mission headed by MAJ Archimedes Patti was embarrassed when Ho asked for a copy of the US Declaration of Independence to use in a declaration of independence from France. Ho's proposals to Patti also included French Indochina becoming a US protectorate for which independence was planned, as was done in the Phillipines.
The great blunders came far earlier than 1974. Huge mistakes were made in 1947, 1955, 1956, 1959, 1962, and 1964.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]
December 19, 2007 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem to me that the history of this supports this assertion.
By 1973, the battle was between conventional military forces fighting conventional battles. The Viet Cong insurgency was mostly wiped out during the Tet offensive and never reconstituted itself to anything like its former strength.
I agree that there were big blunders in 1964 and before, but that really has no bearing on the question of whether in 1973 and 1974, it would have been possible for the South Vietnamese government to survive had we continued supporting them. Lots of governments have survived being corrupt and unpopular around the world. I would like to know if, for instance, S. Korea was any different or if it was just as fragile and corrupt a government when the peace was signed in the 50s. I expect it was.
December 19, 2007 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Assume the South Vietnamese had defeated the North Vietnamese. Would the South Vietnamese government have reduced corruption, held honest elections, implemented serious judicial authority, or other steps toward creating government by the consent of the governed?
I agree the VC was largely gone. Are you assuming that North Vietnam would not, assuming the Southern government stayed corrupt, have supported a new insurgency? Should a military solution have been applied to the North?
Now: what benefit would have been gained from propping up the South Vietnamese government in 1974? Vietnam is thriving today. Yes, people were imprisoned by the North that would not have been imprisoned.
Would Cambodia, perhaps, stayed more stable? Would the Khmer Rouge have gotten genocidal control--and remember, the (unified)Vietnamese attacked them?
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]
December 19, 2007 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent questions. I think that they are at the heart of the conservative/liberal split on this issue. People like Max Boot have specifically argued yes to the question of Cambodian stability and no to the question of the Khmer Rouge gaining control if we had continued our support.
And yes, I agree that Vietnam is doing great today and I think that gets to a better response to this conservative argument. That is, the issue isn't could we "win", but rather would it have been worth it.
But to get this question even debated in the public today we have to knock down the military mindset that says that we cannot ever "cut and run." This gets into a clash of military and civilian culture. In military culture, giving up on a fight means dishonor, it means failure, it means a loss of prestige, and in the masculine worldview that pervades that culture it also means inviting future attack by showing weakness.
We civilians, on the other hand, are more willing to look at a conflict in terms of cost/benefit analysis. We're willing to lose if winning costs too much while providing too few benefits. And our willingness to do that is exactly why we need to be in control. But it is also exactly why military people tend to think civilians are unworthy of being in control, and in so far as they have convinced the general public of the moral superiority of the military, they have also gotten the public to buy into this argument that cut and run is unthinkable.
December 19, 2007 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was, however, an even bigger military dog (nice doggie) in the White House, who flatly rejected intervention. Unfortunately, the militant anticommunism of the time prevented a realistic political settlement in 1954-1956.
While there had been US observers in Southeast Asia during the Eisenhower Administration, as well as advisors ironically training the South Vietnamese for a Korea-style invasion from the North, there were not even covert combat forces in the region before JFK sent the White Star covert operators to Laos.
The Joint Chiefs, under Eisenhower, had been discussing intervention in Cuba, but the staff studies suggested a large force if it was done at all. Kennedy moved the planning to CIA, and the Bay of Pigs site and support were advised against by the Joint Chiefs.
I'll freely admit LeMay was eager to bomb during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Overall, the Joint Chiefs were prepared to invade -- but wanted to avoid it. It wasn't until 1990, IIRC, when the Russians shared that the Soviet commander in Cuba had five tactical nuclear weapons, with preauthorization to use them against an American invasion.
Would Eisenhower, with his background, or Kennedy, having learned a lesson from the Bay of Pigs, have gotten us as deeply into Vietnam? It's only speculation. LBJ, however, did get his ego involved, and definitely escalated at the Gulf of Tonkin when there was not full information, and no immediate threat calling for an instant response.
I don't disagree that the military recognized that a response would be needed in 1991, but Schwarzkopf and Powell held out for an overwhelming force. Cheney, in this case, listened.
Remember, though, that GEN Shinseki testified to Congress that a subsequent invasion of Iraq would need an occupation force of at least 300 to 400 thousand soldiers. It was Rumsfeld that insisted 125,000 was enough.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]
December 19, 2007 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do think there is a difference in attitude about starting wars between military people like Eisenhower and JFK who've seen combat and been through war and those who haven't. Consider, for instance, that both LBJ and George W. had been in the military but never saw serious combat.
I also think you have to be wary of civilians who worship the military. Basically, any time you have people who have this movie-style, cartoon concept of war and violence and a need to prove their masculinity instead of an understanding the gruesome,painful reality of war.
December 19, 2007 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Given that the ARVN collpased in a matter of weeks after North Vietnam launched its offensive in 1975, it really strains credibility that continued US Air support would have saved South Vietnam. Yes, South Vietnam & the US had mostly wiped out the Viet Cong by 1973, and, yes, the ARVN was able to fight NVA to a stalemate in 1973. But the NVA was smart enough to learn from its mistakes: according to this article in a US military publication, the NVA shifted from a strategy of conventional attack to one based on "deception, diversion, surprise, an indirect approach, and alternate objectives".
In addition to what Howard said about the corruption, weak government & low morale of South Vietnam, we shouldn't underestimate the ingenuity of the North Vietnamese military.
December 19, 2007 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, South Vietnam & the US had mostly wiped out the Viet Cong by 1973,…
Sorry, some problem with my brouser won’t let me post links, but if you google Reassessing the Viet Cong Role after Tet
© 1997 Peter Brush, you will find an interesting artice disputing Colonel Summers assertion that the Vietcong were largely destroyed and therefore insignificant after Tet. One point made is that the VC were estimated to be “only” 20% of the forces aligned against the US. This hardly makes them insignificant. The US Marines only made up 16% of our forces. I’m sure that any military “expert” would agree that the Marines were significant to our effort.
December 19, 2007 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a quote from another article in Parameters, the miltary journal:
December 19, 2007 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent on point articles, although they don't seem to agree on the quality of S. Vietnam army. One describes it as hardened veterans with lots of available firepower and the other says it never became the kind of fighting force the North had.
And this same article also still calls public opinion "the real domino."
I don't think it settles the question, but these two articles you link to here and below definitely, better than anything else I've read, argue against the meme that we could have prevented the defeat of S. Vietnam.
Still, I think we should acknowledge that there actually is a colorable argument in the other direction.
December 19, 2007 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Read Why the Strong Lose by Jeffrey Record. The US encountered the same surprise in Iraq that it faced in Viet Nam for the same reason, the US assumed that only the US can beat the US. Moreover -
...the delusional is no longer marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power in the Oval Office and in Congress. Bill Moyers
December 20, 2007 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink