On the 'Hood, and Rights
Let me just take a second to respond to Daniel's last post before getting into the moral argument behind The Trap. Daniel implies that I'm suggesting young idealists move to "poor neighborhoods" or "the worst neighborhoods" or "the ghetto". This is another instance where I think he simply can't shake his ideological perspective.
What I noted was that the kind of neighborhoods that young idealists are likely to find attractive – those that the Brookings Institution report he cites unfortunately calls "low income" – have increased in number, contrary to Daniel's claim. But these aren't poor neighborhoods. They are neighborhoods where the "median" household (the one in the middle) has income that is between 50% and 80% of the metropolitan area's median income – where the typical household is 20 to 30 percent poorer than the typical household in the metropolitan area (encompassing city and suburb).
Let's make it more concrete. The median income in the Washington D.C. metro area was $72,247 in 2000. Therefore, a "low income" neighborhood was one in which the typical household had an income between $36,000 and $58,000. These neighborhoods are in contrast to "very low income" neighborhoods (again, the report's terms, not mine or Daniel's). In D.C., the typical household in such a neighborhood has an income between $0 and $36,000. As an example of a very-low-income neighborhood, think of Anacostia, one of the more desolated inner-city neighborhoods in the country. Thanks to the website Dana mentioned, I can tell you that the median household income in, for instance, Anacostia's 20020 ZIP code was $28,000 in 2000. That's not an inviting neighborhood for Ivy League graduates.
But now consider Dana's ZIP code – 20009, where the median was $42,000 as far as I can tell rather than the $33,000 she reports. Otherwise, though, she describes it well. It encompasses the current hot neighborhoods that are gentrifying -- Logan Circle, Mt. Pleasant, Adams Morgan and the U St. Corridor -- as well as housing a lot of Howard University students, long-time low-income residents, a good chunk of the city's Latino and immigrant populations, and professionals young and old.
I'll actually be moving to the same ZIP code next month. I'm not moving there out of economic necessity – my rent will actually be going up because I'm not going to have a roommate. It's just a ZIP code with a lot of cool neighborhoods. If I were doing better, I'd have tried to buy a condo there. If I were doing a less well I'd have remained in my current ZIP code where the median income is over $80,000 but my rent $900. If I were desperate (and had a gun to my head) I'd move to Virginia (I kid! I kid!). My point is that Brookings' "low income" neighborhoods are quite livable and even qualify as the hip neighborhoods that attract young idealists.
But not if they aren't willing to make sacrifices. If I were saddled with debt from law or medical school or made the salary I did when I briefly worked for ACORN in St. Louis, I would actually have to consider moving to Virginia. Is that unfair?
Which brings me to the moral argument of The Trap. I think what would be helpful to me would be if Daniel would be more specific about his notions of freedom and fairness. At places in the book, one gets the impression that for him, freedom means allowing every aspiring film-maker to afford to live in a neighborhood like the Castro, allowing every human rights worker to either graduate from college debt-free or to live in the East Village, allowing every would-be public interest activist to live in North Beach while affording to raise children there.
He seems to believe freedom means the right of everyone to afford to pursue their passion (regardless of how productive it is, or who is willing to pay for it, or how much they are willing to pay) in the residential area of their choosing. This right would seem to carry with it the obligation of others to pay the difference between how the market values an individual's passion and what it costs for the person to live where he or she wants to.
Am I wrong? To Daniel's credit, I think his book could serve a useful purpose by forcing progressives to ask themselves what they believe people are entitled to in this regard, and what others are obligated to give them. I'd like to close by offering a list of possible rights that one might believe are universal and that Daniel's book in places is sympathetic toward or outright advocates. So which of these rights would you defend?
- the right to a minimum income if one works that is as high as the U.S. minimum wage was at its apex
- the right to a minimum income if one works that is high enough to afford comfortable housing in the most desirable neighborhoods
- the right to a minimum income regardless of whether one works
- the right to state-financed health care coverage as good as the typical person's today
- the right to state-financed health care coverage better than the typical person's today
- the right to state-financed child care for one child
- the right to state-financed child care for as many children as one desires to have
- the right to a free 4-year education at a public college or university
- the right to a free 4-year education at whatever college or university one can gain acceptance to
- the right to have private elementary or secondary school tuition paid by the state if the public schools are bad
- the right to rent-stabilized apartments in expensive neighborhoods
- the right to live in the neighborhood one grew up in, even if it becomes too expensive for one to afford
- the right to a summer home in Connecticut
- the right to a subsidy so that one can marry the person that they would marry if not for that person's income
- the right to live without roommates
- the right to major in whatever one wants in college and to receive compensation if it doesn't lead to a job that pays as well as one a pre-professional degree would win
- the right to shop at Whole Foods instead of Shop 'n' Save
Where do others' rights and obligations end? I suppose Daniel is simply trying to get people to expand their notions on that question without getting into the tough details of what people may rightly claim from others. But it comes off as a copout, and not only for his failure to delve into these questions.
Also absent is any discussion of whether such claims at some point become counterproductive. Flattening incomes entirely would kill incentives to be productive and to take risks that might produce innovations that would expand happiness for millions, or billions.
To not deal with these complications is to engage in political debate at the level of a dorm-room argument. Daniel is obviously way smarter than that, and despite not being a fan of The Trap, I hope he'll continue to develop his ideas further in future projects.












Hey Scott...very nice follow-up. Just want to clarify - my nieghborhood is 20010, and that's the median income I was citing. It includes parts of Mt. Pleasant and Columbia Heights, will 20009 is the area that includes southern parts of MTP and Adams Morgan/U Street.
October 18, 2007 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll agree that, if we frame the issues in terms of choices available to the elite, we may end up with something that sounds like special pleading. We see it in the Times coverage of women's choices slanted to those who can afford not to work.
But such coverage typically undermines progressive causes, and it's no excuse for this Third Way dismissal. Destor there has it right. Sure, you make choices and you have to live with them. But if the limits have changed in my lifetime, let's ask why and who benefits. To name just a few, there's the debt burden on those who do go for an education, the massive gap between rich and poor, and the growing gap between housing for rich and poor in cities. I don't think of the world created for my parents by the GI bill, government help with home ownership after the way, public transportation, a higher minimum wage in real dollars, Mitchell-Lama laws and rent stabilization that encouraged a mix of middle income housing scattered in amid rich and poor, and so many other programs as special pleading for bums.
If we see things eroding those drastically, including radically new policies like tax cuts for the rich, let's get angry. And if we see things that are pressing on our agenda that matter here, like health care, let's go for them. Scott seems determined to make lawyers who make sacrifices to fight for justice into the next Reagan welfare queens. I don't think that's helpful. I may not make their caause high on my agenda, but I don't like the world he's using that as an excuse to defend. The Third Way, once again, proves itself the Bush way.
John
http://www.haberarts.com/
October 18, 2007 2:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let me again note that my views are my own and do not represent Third Way.
destor23, I wasn't intending my list of possible rights as absurd -- I would endorse a few of them myself. But I'm truly interested in where folks draw the line.
cscs -- have you read the book? also, rights for one person are always obligations for others -- either freedom that they lose (the right to not be killed, to be extreme, comes with the obligation on others not to kill or to accept punishment if they do).
jhaber -- if you think Third Way and President Bush agree on much at all, you haven't read our stuff.
October 18, 2007 3:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
“I agree with destor -- phrases like "obligated to give them" are rooted in ideology. They're not honest arguments.
No it is rooted in economics.
If one declares health care, child care, education, ect. a fundamental right, someone must be forced to provide those services at no cost or someone must be forced to pay for them. Now, that may be good policy, but it is not dishonest to ask who will provide that right.
October 18, 2007 4:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I would actually have to consider moving to Virginia. Is that unfair?" It depends. If the reason you'd have to consider moving out of New York that you can't afford New York on the salary of a New York nonprofit, then fairness aside, there's a real problem for you: moving won't keep you contributing to that nonprofit. Should you end up working for a major Virginia firm, whether a tobacco company or Snow's railroads, you obviously will wish you'd sold out to a New York firm after all.
In other words, to remove ambiguity in what I was just saying, it may not be self-involved if someone asks for a New York in which more than the rich and poor can live. Come to think of it, I grew up in such a city, and it was a vibrant place I'd love to have regardless of whether Daniel is working here.
Scott, sorry to lump you with Bush. I'll stand by the fact of your coming here to use Reagan kinds of slippery rhetoric in support of that kind of agenda. I'm sure you have other views as well.
John
http://www.haberarts.com/
October 18, 2007 4:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess Winship wants his list of rights to seem somewhat absurd.
But a lot of them really are progressive causes, especially at local levels. For example, I'm from New Mexico. In Santa Fe, a lot of people whose families have lived their for generations have been priced out of the market by Hollywood money. The city has responded by trying to enact living wage laws. So there's something that Winship sees in Brooks' book that really is coming to pass.
Should the minimum wage have been made to keep up with inflation? Again, we can argue it, but it's not the absurd notion that Winship presents to us. Why have a minimum wage if you're going to let inflation erode its purchasing power?
Winship smirks that for Brook, "freedom means allowing every aspiring film-maker to afford to live in a neighborhood like the Castro..." Well, you know, before the Republican moralists gutted the NEA, people did have a shot at that, with government support. Why? Because government should be encouraging artists because artists are good for the culture. Again, things are not so absurd as Winship claims.
The real lunacy here is that Winship accuses Brooks of bring trapped by ideology. Well, so is Winship. That's why I brought Third Way into the discussion. Because it represents a distinct ideology, one that many progressives here would diagree with.
Winship's ideology keeps him from seeing that there's a real problem here -- the economy traps people into making undesirable choices. I know some people want to say "Well, that's life." And maybe it is. But let's at least have a discussion about it. Winship really can't because his charge of ideological blindness applies as much to him as it does Brook.
thosethingswesay.blogspot.com
October 18, 2007 8:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
My point is that Brookings' "low income" neighborhoods are quite livable and even qualify as the hip neighborhoods that attract young idealists.
And this misses Daniel's point that the "low income" neighborhoods are increasingly less affordable themselves. Contrary to Daniel, I've observed that the types of people he describes have shown themselves perfectly willing to relocate to more and more marginal neighborhoods. At least in New York City (and I think probably the Bay Area too), the cost of living even in these places is still reaching absurd levels.
I would actually have to consider moving to Virginia. Is that unfair?
Let's assume for the sake of argument that it's not unfair. That doesn't mean that the implications are desirable, from the transformation of cities into homogenous playgrounds for concentrated wealth, the loss of talented people (even if only on the margins) from worthy fields of work, and the increasing monopolization of such fields by the children of the wealthy.
It would be nice if the line-drawing questions you raise were the real ones at issue. As an empirical matter, I don't see it that way. Rather, I see non-children of the wealthy competing with the children of the wealthy and losing out because the latter price the former out of jobs and cities altogether. It's hard to compete with someone for funding an enterprise in the arts, for example, when your competitor can afford to go a year without earning income and you can't. Even if this is "fair," I don't know that the best results in the arts come from their increasingly exclusive composition from one economic class.
October 18, 2007 8:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
He seems to believe freedom means the right of everyone to afford to pursue their passion (regardless of how productive it is, or who is willing to pay for it, or how much they are willing to pay) in the residential area of their choosing.
Actually, he doesn't seem to believe this.
...I think his book could serve a useful purpose by forcing progressives to ask themselves what they believe people are entitled to in this regard, and what others are obligated to give them.
I agree with destor -- phrases like "obligated to give them" are rooted in ideology. They're not honest arguments.
Phrases like that are code, for "socialists." Or "dirty fucking hippies."
"Thank God George Bush is our president." -Rudy Giuliani
October 18, 2007 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fair enough (and thanks for answering). From your list, there's a few I'd choose as policy goals (as opposed to rights) and some that I wouldn't. Some of them really are "out there" enough that I thought you were purposefully going for absurdism.
But here's what I'd like to see, because I think it would solve some of Brooks' problems:
Universal healthcare.
Living wage laws.
Rent control, when necessary.
Student loan forgiveness in exchange for public service (I think we agree on that, don't we?)
Young Artist and Humanitarian Grants, funded by a combination of the NEA and NIH.
I'm not saying anything's a right. But if you had all of those things, people would be freer to follow their bliss.
I kind of expect that you'll tell me that most of the country doesn't want that, and you're likely right. But what do you think of those ideas morally? And doesn't it stand to reason that the people Brooks writes about would be better off, and freer, for having them?
thosethingswesay.blogspot.com
October 18, 2007 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can make policies supporting certain desirable outcomes without those things being fundamental rights.
October 18, 2007 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, but, from personal experience, I sense some overreaching in the arguments made here--Scott bases his arguments in demographics, and personal experience in the DC area. However, his arguments contain some annoying name-dropping; having moved to San Francisco from NYC two years ago (where I lived in Williamsburg and the L.E.S.), here is the reality from the ground as I see it:
Digging deeper into the NYC aspect, the pure demographic approach is very misleading, given that the neighborhoods are a mixture of long-time owners, rent-controlled renters, and, the fastest growing segment, market rate renters and buyers. Most people come to NYC for the mix of people, yet market rates and aggressive turnover of rent-controlled units (let's talk about Stuyvesant Town), has radically changed the neighborhood mixture. Scott talks a lot about the East Village, yet doesn't refer to how it's changed into a bedroom community for NYU, or the fact that many of the well-to-do think it's an excellent 'investment' to buy a walk-up flat for $1 or 2 mil, for junior's housing. While that is their prerogative, try asking the locals what it's done to the neighborhood.
Also, while it's not (horrors!) Virginia, in NYC, anybody on a social worker's budget will be looking at living in Bushwick or East New York, where the demographic data available on the web does not reflect the gritty day-to-day realities of life, where hardship goes beyond having to have a roommate.
While the original topic allows some people to fixate on the 'children of privelege' aspect, the reality is, this argument goes much deeper--while social workers and other do-good types are important to a city, they are not as essential as the workers who do the day to day dirty work that keeps a city running, and it is undisputable that these people are being priced out of the city--how far will they have to be pushed out before they say 'fuhgettaboutit'?
I'm not in the least arguing that anybody 'deserves' to live anywhere, however, a real community involves people from all income levels, and just saying that it's ok for people to commute longer distances is not a real answer or solution. It's practically impossible to create a workable solution to what I believe at heart; who makes a better neighbor, a social worker or garbageman, or an absentee investor?
October 18, 2007 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink