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Universal Access To Affordable Health Care: Step Three - A Single Risk Pool

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All week we’ve been talking about ways to solve the nation’s health care crisis, the single most important domestic priority facing us today.

From open disclosure of all prices to unitary pricing so that each of us pays the same amount for the same product or service, we’ve looked at practical ways to make the system more transparent as we guarantee universal access to affordable care for every citizen.

Today, let’s talk about one of the biggest common-sense changes — a Single Risk Pool.

No other reform is more critical. We need one nationwide health insurance risk pool, through which licensed carriers offer their products and services to any and all citizens without regard to gender, residence, pre-existing health condition, skin color, religion, pregnancy, or economic condition. Plainly stated, if you’re a citizen, you are in — without any cherry-picking.

Volume discounts leverage down prices everywhere and in every marketplace. Why not try to build an open and competitive health care marketplace? We may also need to consider forming regional pools - to account for varying costs of doing business around the country - so that people Green Bay won’t have to pay the same prices people pay in Manhattan or Miami.

But only Big Insurance and Big Pharma could complain about establishing a standard health insurance policy that covers what people need and guarantees coverage for everyone — without exclusions or discrimination due to pre-existing conditions. Such a policy, written in plain English, should cover all of us, from head to toe, including dental and mental health care.

After all, we already have federal standards in the auto, agriculture, and manufacturing industries. It’s time to create one to protect our health, too.

I hope you will join the discussion again tomorrow for step four in my Declaration of Health. And don’t forget to check out nationally syndicated columnist Clarence Page’s look at my plan in Sunday’s Chicago Tribune.


74 Comments

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We already have a plan that accepts everyone on a non-discriminatory basis, it's called Medicare. If you are old enough, you get it. It works fine. Let's just expand it.

Stop defending the totally useless private insurance middlemen.

A plan like United Healthcare already has millions of subscribers, I doubt they will be able to negotiate better terms if they get even bigger. They did manage to keep almost $1 billion in profits for themselves in just the last quarter, however.

If all insurers have to service the same pool what are they going to compete on? They can no longer cherry pick subscribers, so they can only increase their profit ratio by paying out less in benefits. This seems like a perverse incentive to me.

--- Policies not Politics
Daily Landscape

When you're ready to get private insurance conglomerates out of the system and let the government run the program on a non profit basis let me know. That will release about eight dollar per hundred currently being spent every day in our economy to be spent in other areas and that will stimulate those parts of the market creating hundreds of thousands of new jobs.

I am afraid this shows yet another congressperson out of touch with what the people of this country want. It is time for you to listen rather than come up with brilliant ideas on something as simple as this is.
We will accept no less than complete health care for all, for free. I am amazed that so few of you people will use your cognitive senses and stop attempting to talk over us. Please, shut up and listen to the people. I understand this is something you do only when looking for votes.

To all of our, and excuse the dirty word, "representatives" Get on board or you will be retired. If you think the sheep are going to continue their complacency, join them and see. I think we need to remove health care from congress. that they would do this for themselves and not us shows clearly that they not only do not represent us, that they place themselves well above us.
Perhaps soon you will find out what the ground floor of a 2 story outhouse is about.

“We will accept no less than complete health care for all, for free.”

How do you propose to get “free” health care? Force the doctors and nurses to work for nothing?

I think he was using "free" metaphorically in the sense that it is a public benefit like schooling. The kids don't pay for public school so it is "free", but in actuality it is funded by indirect means.

Medicare is "free", but is also funded by indirect means. There is nothing radical being proposed.

--- Policies not Politics
Daily Landscape

I'm just not sure why we need the insurance companies in this scheme. They're loss leaders. Cost centers. Whatever you want to call them. They're making everything less efficient.

Your plan so far involves one risk pool with transparent and unitary pricing. The risk pool should be "Everyone in the United States" pricing should be determined by the buying power of that risk pool, as represented by the government. There's no need for an insurance company in this.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

As a practical matter, even with a single risk pool, you'd have to have some way of forcing insurers not to cherry-pick geographically -- to only provide coverage in states with better health, for example. Or to cherry-pick by only having offices in well-off suburbs. And so on.

The workman is worthy of his hire. This is true when it comes to people who actually deliver services, like physicians, nurses, and lab technicians. But what value add do the insurance companies add to the equation. You cannot capitalize on someones medical crisis! A medical crisis is not an opportunity to leverage profit! Until we get past this point--change is impossible. Should we let corporations leverage profit off your children's public education? Your need for sewerage treatment? Roads? How about we outsource America's defense to insurance companies? Some things are simply infrastructure. Medical care should be one of them.

"If you talk about it, even the simplest thing becomes complex and incomprehensible." -Herman Hesse

YES!
Single Nationwide All American Risk

Of course that really means single-payer, which for reasons I do not understand (except political shyness) you refuse to actually endorse.

See:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php
(and scroll down for detailed coverage of all issues)

Did you know that back in 1993, Congressional Budget Office and OMB both analyzed single payer as the most cost-effective way to get universal health care?

exactly. there is no value added by the private insurance companies. get insurance out of health care. Expanded and Improved Medicare for All.

Congressman, I respectfully disagree with you for three reasons that differ from those expressed by the commenters above.

First, your constituents and most Blue Staters would be better off with a state by state approach and not a nationwide pool. Consider life expectancy rates as a proxy for healthcare success (although obviously not a perfect one). Generally speaking, it is the blue states that have the highest life expectancy and the red states that do not. (see http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mpr_04.htm for the chart). Hawaii and Minnesota for instance have life expectancy rates equal or higher than Canada. In contrast, the 10 lowest states seem to be mostly red states generally located in the southeastern USA. (Not conicidentally, they have more homicides as well, if you check out the FBI stats). It seems to me from a wholly political perspective, yours as well as the Democratic party, that expanding benefits for red staters is pointless politically.

My second reason is a more moral and economic one. Much of healthcare demand is caused by risky behavior - smoking, substance abuse, riding motorcycles without helmets, driving without a seat belt, driving through red lights, owning a firearm, std's, failure to follow treatment regimens, sports that risk injuries, etc. A nationwide pool in which such risk-ignorant people and people who live a more risk averse life are treated alike and in which premiums are charged based on income rather than propensity to demand medical care offends me both morally and also makes no economic sense to me. Why should a law abiding healthy family in your district be paying a penny for the emergency room visit of a gang member in LA? Just as I pay lower life insurance premiums because I am a nonsmoker, and just as safe drivers pay lower auto insurance premiums than accident causers, the health insurance system needs to be priced in a way that rewards healthy behavior and demands more from those who place demands on the system. Your constituents seem to be in the "healthy behavior" camp and it might be good to focus on plans that reward them.

Last, you are not presenting any quantitative analysis of what would happen under your proposal, although it is an economic proposal. A proposal that has not been thoroughly tested runs the risk of being a FIASCO and I use the name of a book about the mistakes made in planning the Iraq invastion intentionally. What most Democratic politicians are doing on healthcare is what Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Feith did on Iraq- see a problem, decide on the response and implement it, without ever testing and wargaming the solution, modeling it, war gaming it, examining the risks, the possible unintended consequences , etc. etc. As someone with a scientific background, surely you must appreciate the huge gap between rigourous analysis and just tossing out ideas. I think the biggest contribution you could make on the issue is to stop tossing out proposals and start insisting among your colleagues on building up a methodology for the best decision making possible.

The advantage of a large risk pool is that other people's risk taking kind of washes out. Yeah, a skydiving accident will be expensive but since not everybody skydives and even among those who do, few are seriously injured, it's no problem. Such things only become a problem in small risk pools.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Re: They can no longer cherry pick subscribers, so they can only increase their profit ratio by paying out less in benefits. This seems like a perverse incentive to me.

This is exactly how Medicare and Medicaid manage to save money: they "negotiate" (meaning generally impose by legal fiat) low reimbursement rates on providers. This is also how foreign healthcare systems achieve their savings. I am not saying that this is wrong or undesirable, but I do wish people would do their research on this issue. There's an astonishing amount of ignorance out there. Just ask any doctor who accepts Medicare and Medicaid patients and he'll tell you he gets less on them than he does on patients with private insurance. Medicaid especially is notoriously stingey.

Why should a law abiding healthy family in your district be paying a penny for the emergency room visit of a gang member in LA?

For the same reason that a couple with no childrens' taxes help fund schools; for the same reason that people who smoke cigarettes don't pay a separate premium to augment the fire department; for the same reason that people who haven't used police services don't get a break on their property taxes the next year:

THE COMMON GOOD.

We can never risk-qualify every person, and we shouldn't.  I had breast cancer, and so now my health insurance won't cover mammograms 100% because they are diagnostic rather than screening.  That, and about a million other things about insurance companies is a travesty.

Get over the idea that you might just pay into a pool that includes someone who eats every meal at McDonalds and follows it up with a smoke.  Someday you may slip on a bar of soap and get a head injury that will require years of physical therapy.  You may have the bad luck of getting cancer (that you didn't contribute to) and your next insurance company will charge you $500 a month for a $5,000 yearly deductible policy.

Unlike the poster above, I don't think it should be free.  I think it is appropriate for us to contribute to our health care, at least in the form of a co-pay (to discourage abuse), but this system where the insurance companies make profits by denying care or raising costs; this phoney "gate-keeper" system is just wrong.

We can look at every industrialized county in the world and cherry-pick their best parts; we can choose the things that go with out life-style and leave out the rest.  We don't have to reinvent the wheel.  Every doctor's office in the country will be able to use the people who are now spending hours on the phone getting "pre-authorizations," etc, to actually deliver care.  What a concept!

Jan

Congressman, two questions. What on earth would prevent people from waiting to buy health insurance until they were actually sick?

And what, pray tell, is the value that private insurance companies add for their 20-30% overheads that Medicare doesn't add for its 2-3% overhead

Seriously, what do private insurance companies add?

Do they deliver more patient care per dollar than Medicare? No. And they won't be able to because they have to pay multi-million-dollar salaries to their top management teams and deliver investment returns to stockholders.

Do they manage patient care better than the V.A? No. And they won't be able to because the kind of computerized patient record system that the V.A. has only makes sense if you have a patient for life.

Do they make health care deliver more efficient? No. As you well know, doctors have to hire billing specialists to wade through all the insurance company red tape.

Speaking of red tape, Do private insurance companies burden health care providers with more red tape or less red tape than medicare?

You can't answer the question of what added value insurance companies deliver, but you are unwilling to simply have the federal government step in and replace them at lower cost. For pure ideological reasons you are unwilling or unable to see that the government is the low-cost provider of health insurance, not private industry.

The fact that every industrialized country in the world except the U.S. has a health care system that delivers ore per dollar than ours is something you are blind to. Sure, there are long waiting times for elective procedures in many countries that have socialized medicine. That's not because socialized medicine is inefficient, it's because other countries don't want to spend as much money as we do. If they spent 30-50% more like we do, they wouldn't have waiting lists, either.

As a doctor, you should know all this and I suspect you do. Which means you are basically just dishonestly trying to protect the interests of a big lobby. I'm sick and tired of that kind of thinking.

For the record, my husband is a pathologist and his practice charges the same prices, no matter who is paying, be it Medicare, Medicaid, or private health insurance. I don't know if this is common, but it may vary by specialty.

Of course. He means free to him, assuming someone else will pay his bills.

The congressman doesn't seem to have especially large ties to the medical industry as far as I can tell, although the reporting is a big general. From the Sunlight Foundation:

Steve Kagen

Let's assume that his position is based upon his beliefs and experience as a doctor. This means he has to defend his views using data. There is no point in arguing an industry shill, believing the best in people is the way to go.

--- Policies not Politics
Daily Landscape

It's likely that he charges the medicare/medicaid prices. So, he's not gouging people. What's his phone number? I'll be right over...

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Finally, we get to the meat of your proposals.

A single risk pool makes great sense. In fact, it is an essential part of every sensible plan and every nationalized health care delivery system. But to go along with the single risk pool we must have universal participation. Then comes the question of costs. What is the cost of the insurance under this plan? How does one guarantee that the cost will be affordable? Who pays? What about the poor, especially the working poor? How strictly monitored are the presumably private providers of this insurance? Will "market forces" alone ensure efficient service and low cost? I doubt it.

If we have a single, nationwide risk pool, or even regional pools, with guaranteed coverage and a uniform schedule of benefits, what then becomes the rationale for having it adminstered by private companies whose motive will still be profit?

Is there some inherent efficiency in the private sector with which government can not compete? Will the private companies be more transparant? Will the payment schemes and authorization procedures be more fair or less burdensome as regards paperwork, etc? Will administrative costs be less? Will redress if someone feels unfairly treated be any easier? I think the answer to all these questions will be "no."

If private insurers are still involved, as in Germany and to a degree, Ausralia, they will need to be heavily regulated in order for the system to work. In that case it approaches single payer national health care, but with a different name and another level of complexity. Still, it beats what we have now. I still do not understand how having for profit organizations, beholden to shareholders and with executives paid tens of millions (if not hundereds of millions) a year, actually adds value to the system.

The only advantage I could see is in some sort of flexibility, in that it may allow certain plans to offer coverage and benefits beyond the mandated minimums, at additional cost, which some might want to purchase because they want private rooms, exceptonal procedures, etc. But then, under any government plan it should be allowed that those who wish to and can afford it should be able to buy supplemental coverage for these types things and services.

The big questions still remain: 1) is it universal, is everybody covered? 2) Is the coverage truly comprehensive? 3) How are the costs covered, especially for the less fortunate (and please don't say tax credits!)? 4) Are employers still the primary purchasers? 5) If so, what about the unemployed and self employed? 6) How efficient will the administration and implementation be?

Still, it is encouraging to get to some substantive proposal, or even part of a proposal. It just needs to go further.

Thanks rdf.

I appreciate your ongoing commentary. I am not "defending" any "special interests." I'm serving the best interests of my patients - and my constutuents - the people in NE Wisconsin who sent me to Washington to guarantee access to affordable care for every Citizen.

You mentioned Medicare. Everyone knows Medicare is a mess, but Medicare is not the focus of this discussion.

Kindly consider the following questions:

1. Are you opposed to knowing the price of a pill before you swallow it?

2. Do you want to pay a different price for a specific service than others?

3. Are you in favor of discrimination against people who are ill?

Our nation's traditional values are served best by answering NO to all three queries above.

Let's form a Single Risk Pool, and leverage down the prices for pharmaceuticals and insurance policies.

Let's begin to think differently and think things all the way through.

Thank you, oldtree, for entering this discussion.

My initiative will guarantee UNIVERSAL access to affordable care for every Citizen.

Do you disagree with any of the essential elements within The Declaration of Health ? Open Disclosure ? Unitary Pricing ? A Single Risk Pool - with no discrimination against any Citizen due to pre-existing conditions?

Regarding your reference to removing "health care from congress" - I am the only Member of Congress to have refused the health benefits until every Citizen has the identical coverage as the U.S. Congress. (please read the prior postings please.)

Thanks oldtree. Join us, and we will build a better nation for all of us - with no patient left behind.

Yes, destor23, this is an interesting thought, isn't it?

The marketplace will ultimately determine the success or failure of private insurance companies. With enactment into federal legislation, my initiative will guarantee that we all have access to affordable care.

Let's force the insurance companies to openly compete for our business - for a change.

I think mjshep pinned it down, in that this is the meat, once  supplemented by clear questions about how insurance will be made affordable and available to (and presumably required of) those not now receiving it. I'm looking forward to hearing it.

Sounds, too, like the idea is that private insurers will either wither away, as Krugman thinks likely under Edwards's plan and Maggie M. thinks hopeful, or at least forced to compete under equal and difficult circumstances. While I favor single payer, I gather the idea is to avoid incrementalism in the sense of coverage but allow it in the sense of systemic makeover, on the grounds that Maggie articulated, that a law putting a huge segment of the American economy out of business will be hard to pass. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm open to that argument.

In addition to mjshep's issues, I hope there will also be an additional part to the congressman's series, on how he sees the proposal as differing from that of the presidential candidates.

John 

http://www.haberarts.com/

Steve, those are all straw men. If we are to have a universal risk pool, we have no need for insurance companies. Or, more accurately, we have no need for todays versions of insurance companies. We could still use the infrastructure set up by those companies, by contracting out the operation of geographic segments of the risk pool, with fixed price contracts, going to the lowest bidders. This would require some stringent federal standards for how those contracts were administered, to avoid the winners gaming the system by not doing the work involved, or doing it very slowly, using very cheap labor and little of that. Outside of that possible niche, the health care insurance companies have no reason for existence if we in fact set up an universal risk pool.

Like the farriers of old they would simply be passed by by progress.

Hoppy in Sacramento

If you understand the meaning of "risk pool" you understand that we all would pay for everyone's health care bills. Do you get upset when you purchase term life insurance and don't die in time to collect on it? Same process.

Hoppy in Sacramento

Congressman, I agree we need to think differently but the comment you posted is the opposite of thinking differently. It's just saying 'here's a problem, here's my proposal, here's some rhetorical questions and here's a big rhetorical flourish at the end'. That is just standard political sound bite thinking and speaking.

Thinking differently would be to create a working model of the healthcare system with valid detailed assumptions about what different participants will or won't do under various scenarios, taking input from the thousands of professionals and academics who have studied the sector for the past two decades and then to run different proposals through the model to decide what will work best. The kind of thinking that was not done before launching the invasion of Iraq. The kind of thinking that should be done before any major program is put into law.

Steve Kagen, don't know if you are still reading. But when you talk about a universal risk pool, are you talking about standards not only for what is covered, but what is paid to providers? If not you end up with adverse selection via low compensation of providers who treat the most expensive patients. For example, if your object is to get rid of kidney patients, pay low fees to nephrologists, and low compensation rates for some of the key tests kidney patients require.

So unless your policy includes minimum fees for providers, you really have not established a single risk pool. Of course a standard policy that includes standard coverage, and standard compensation for providers is reducing private insurers to a very small role, and the question then becomes what exactly they are contributing to the system.

Hi, I just thought I would correct you on the "20-30"% number you use for insurance company overhead.
30% is actually the figure that has been assigned by advocates of a single payer system to overhead in the entire US healthcare system. See Woolhandler, Campbell and Himmelstein, Costs of Health Care Administration in the United States and Canada (NEJM 2003).
The authors who are strong advocates of a single payor system state that "public and private insurance overhead amounted to 5.9% of total healthcare expenditure in the United States. " Please note the "public and private" part of that sentence.

Over 60% of the 30% (or 18% of the total, 3X the insurance company's drag) is practitioner and hospital admin. However if you read the study, you will see, I think, that the authors have defined administrative broadly so that it includes any activity not spent with patients - continuing education, working on best practices, staff reviews, labor compliance, ordering supplies, etc. It does not tell you how much is insurance driven.

Apropos of such research, FAS just released a CRS research report, "DoesPrice Transparency Improve Market Efficiency? Implications of Empirical Evidence in Other Markets for the Health Sector". I'm working my way through its 51 pages, constantly reminded that while I delight in fine-tuning means of healthcare delivery and workflow, I do have difficulty whether I prefer recovering from a root canal or reading economic analysis. Given adequate narcotics, give me the root canal every time.

From the summary,


Despite these complications, greater price transparency, such as accessibly posted prices, might lead to more efficient outcomes and lower prices. Some markets where lifting advertising restrictions led to lower prices also involved complicated products such as eye care, suggesting that the complex nature of health care may not be a barrier to benefits from price transparency. Internet comparison shopping sites
also appear to have lowered prices for many products. Better price information might
allow patients, either directly or through their physicians, to obtain better value for
health care services. Several states and health insurers now provide online data on hospital costs. These price transparency initiatives, at least so far, have had little visible effect on pricing. Public pressure, which in some cases has caused hospitals to curtail aggressive bill collection tactics, might change hospitals’ and health care providers’ pricing behavior. This report will be updated as events warrant.

Translation: nobody is really sure.

Mkieler: I was particularly struck by the figure on page CRS-15, doing price comparisons of common tests among California hospitals. Unfortunately, this doesn't show discounted prices, as for Medicaid or large private insurers/benefits managers*. I had assumed that specialties such as clinical pathology, where many tests are completely automated and need no per-test interpretation by the laboratory**, would show little variation.

The cheapest test is a Complete Blood Count (CBC). Trying to estimate the prices from the bar graph, the lowest price is around $20 and the highest $500. Could this be due to high-cost areas? Given the lowest is San Francisco General and the highest Modesto Doctors, that theory doesn't fly.

--
Howard

*I prefer "benefits manager" to "insurer", because the former includes the companies that administer ERISA self-insurance plans. Admittedly, benefits managers usually start as insurers, but the difference is worth remembering.

**No per-test interpretation required in the laboratory, although there must be, for other than the simplest tests, a systematic quality control program run by a graduate-level specialist.

I don’t think anyone seriously thinks they are getting something for “free” when they file an insurance claim. No, I think oldtree really thinks his is going to get someone else to pay for his health care

Charges are meaningless.
They are not costs.
NOR are they what is actually received as payment.

Have to charge same amount by law.
Everybody does.

But what insurance actually pays differs, typically medicaid least; medicare in the middle; and private when it pays at all (after multiple denials, dedictibles etc. more.

Hi Typo Boy - thanks for your comments.

I appreciate having this opportunity to amplify some of the essential elements of my initiative - The Declaration of Health.

THE THEORY OF HEALTH INSURANCE

John Nyman's study of the theory of health insurance explains this very well. ( http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?book_id=4488%20%20 )

Insurance is a form of delayed income: you put your money in and then at some time in the future, when you need it because of an illiness, you take your money back to pay for your unexpected health expenses.

The problem today is the insurance company takes your money, and you have to fight to get it back.

The theory is correct and accurate; it's the practice we need to fix - and we will do this when we establish a Single Risk Pool and a National Standard Health Insurance Policy.

A SINGLE RISK POOL

A Single Risk Pool means that if you are a U.S. Citizen, then you will be included within the group to whom the private insurance carriers MUST offer their policies/products for sale - without any discrimination or cherry-picking.

On a practical level, however, no one in Wisconsin wants to pay the prices now being paid in LA or New York City, so there may need to be 'regional markets' or 'regional pools' - but these pools should not necessarily be determined or limited by state borders - as now occurs. (Insurance companies currently hide behind state lines, in that you have different rates by driving across a bridge from one state to the next i.e. Minnesota-Wisconson or Illinois-Missouri.)

A Single Risk Pool means every Citizen is IN the group to be covered.

A NATIONAL STANDARD HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY

We have federal standards for everything in America - in manufacturing, building construction, OSHA, agriculture, air pollution, etc, BUT we do not have a federal standard for the one thing we all value most - our health.

We must establish a Basic Health Insurance Policy, a standard policy that covers us from head-to-toe; a policy that each and every insurance carrier must offer for sale to any Citizen without any form of discrimination whatsoever.

If it's in your body - it's covered, and if you're a citizen - you're IN.

When Big Insurance must sell the same standardized product to all Citizens - openly disclosing and setting their own prices and charging every Citizen the same price for the same product - we will drive down prices for all of us.

I have told this story a number of times, but I think it bears repeating.

Just before I ran for Congress, I purchased a Chevy Impala, and there were 5 local dealers who were selling the same car/product. I paid less because there was an open marketplace, and the dealer who sold me the care still made a profit, albeit less than he would have if there was no competition.

Open-Competitive markets and a standard health coverage policy will drive down prices. It's more than a theory, it works everywhere in America everyday.

FEES - PRICES

You mentioned FEES above. In my view, government should not be setting fees or prices in markets. When a salesman, a doctor, a dentist, an insurance carrier, or a hospital makes an offer, the customer will determine the best price - which in some cases may be the government (Medicaid).

And regarding the complex and expensive Medicare Part D program, the Administatrion MUST negotiate for lower prescription drug prices using the leverage of the millions of Medicare enrollees.

Not a bad idea - using a large pool of purchasers?

Today the price for everything in health care is "whatever they can get." For example, can anyone reading this tell me what their neighbor paid for an appendectomy, for a coronary bypass operation, or a tooth extraction, or a mammogram? NO.

All the costs are hidden - nada - no marketplace exists. It is an unfair shell game.

We do not have an open marketplace today in health care. And in my family's medical practice lifetime (from 1948 to present), we have never had an open medical marketplace.

It's time to use the power of the marketplace and allow it to do the heavy lifting.

Congressman:

Are you suggesting that there be a government run health care option that would run in parallel to private insurance? We sort of have this now in Medicare. One can have "traditional" Medicare or go for one of the private plans that offer a slightly different mix of services.

The problem seems to be that the government is subsidizing the private plans. Liberals tend to see this as a wolf in sheep's clothing. If the plans were really to be in competition they wouldn't get the subsidies. So what is really happening is the Bush admin is getting people used to getting their Medicare via private insurers.

I spent the bulk of my career working for a non-profit. There were limits on what we could do, things that could be "better" done by private firms would raise objections to our unfair advantage, since we didn't have to pay taxes.

I'm sure a similar thing would arise if there really was a government run health option in competition with the private insurers.

I like the transparency, but I think it is a minor issue.

I'm not sure what you mean by paying a different price for services than others. Right now Medicare and private insurers have schedules that they use. These take into account lots of factors, most notably local overhead costs. What would change?

I like the national pool, but it only means something if there are changes in the private insurance industry.

I think where the majority of the commentators differ with you is over the need for a private insurance layer at all. You have not discussed this as yet.

I'll make an argument for you (not necessarily one you would chose, but just to get the ball rolling). I call it the Japanese rice example. Japan subsidizes inefficient family rice growers and has limits on imports. This causes rice to be more expensive than otherwise, but the government feels that the social good of keeping these farmers solvent is worth the economic "inefficiency"

One could make the same argument here. We, as a nation, decide that we are willing to overspend on health care by 30% in order to provide employment to the million people engaged in the insurance and allied industries. A sort of neo-Keynesian argument. Since the costs of health care would be higher than otherwise, those paying for it will need to charge more for the services or products they provide.

So the plumber charges $120 instead of $100 to cover his health insurance. The lawyer charges the plumber $120 instead of $100 to make up for the plumber's overcharge and so on. We have many examples of such deliberate economic inefficiencies already in our society. There are oil depletion allowances, accelerated depreciation, crop subsidies and so on.

It's a form of make work, but as long as everyone agrees to it and the case is presented openly I don't see anything wrong with it. Personally I think a revival of the CCC and WPA might help us with some of our persistent poverty problems.

Practically speaking I can only think of one instance where the government closed down a profitable industry. That was Prohibition. It didn't turn out well. It is now more than 50 years since tobacco was shown to be dangerous and cigarettes are still on the market. So given the present climate I don't think there is a high probability that private insurance will be eliminated. They wield too much political and economic power.

--- Policies not Politics
Daily Landscape

Thank you rep Kagen.How do we help?
We the people need this.My wife of 30 years has had three bouts with cancer, she is still working today, i'm a below the knee amputee since 1976 (car accident)combined we have both contributed over 80 years to the system and continue to do so.we can not get health coverage, the insurance companies won't take us, and the goverment says we make to much for medicare.We will lose all we have worked for if we have another illness.Our family helped us pay the bills last year when they removed one kidney and part of the other from my wife.

We have federal standards for everything in America - in manufacturing, building construction, OSHA, agriculture, air pollution, etc, BUT we do not have a federal standard for the one thing we all value most - our health.

I have a question related to this comparison.  If we take something like air pollution, or for that matter, mileage standards on cars, we notice that states which wish to impose tougher standards (California, for example) run into all sorts of problems.  I'm remembering that California has been sued by automobile manufacturers for doing this.

So what happens if a more "progressive" region wants to include specific practices or procedures which aren't included in the general pool.  For example, my blue cross covers dentures, but not dental implants which it considers "cosmetic". (I just shelled out $7500.00) for these because I'm too vain to want to put my teeth in a glass by bed at night (note to all, floss regularly).  Perhaps I'm not understanding this well, but I'd like to know if the pool sets a ceiling, a floor, or both, for treatment.

aMike

We need a affordable coverage with out exclusions, my wife did not ask for cancer but is denied automatitly.Yesterday the today show did a piece on the white house press secretary Tony Snow whose colon cancer has returned and how strong he is in his battle.Well we are one up on him we have had three bouts with it and we paid all the bills our self,he does not have to worry about losing his house as we are paying his medical bills as well.Rep.Kagen is trying to initiate a common sense approach to a major problem in this country.I agree with you on one point ,reward those who take care of themselves.My wife never smoked ,i quit in 1999, we are not over weight we exercise regulary and lead an active lifstyle.But still no heath coverage. We the people deserve an affordable health care system.

Thanks aMike for your interest.

You may have missed the earlier postings/conversations, but here is the sequence: First - Openly Disclose all prices for all medical services and products in health care; Second - Every citizen shall be able to purchase the same service at the same price as every other citizen or what I refer to as Unitary Pricing; Third - we need to form a Single Risk Pool, where every citizen is included - 300 million strong - to leverage down prices for all of us; and Fourth - as you will read in the morning's posting, we must make a renewed committment to care for those in need.

Every seller can set their own price, but they must openly disclose the price and charge every customer the same.

Thanks again, aMike, for stopping in.

All this seems to address only one side of the equation. Still unaswered is the question that if the insurance is made universally available will it also have universal (mandated) participation. It seems that this must be a component if the plan is to work.

This then naturally raises the question of how it is to be paid for, especially by those who will not be able to afford it, as a substantial number of Americans will probably not be able to without some subsidy. In most countries it is paid for though taxes, while in Germany, for instance, it is paid for by employer mandates, with special pools for the self- and non-employed.

What are your ideas for ensuring universal participation? And, as important, what are your plans for making sure that citizens - and businesses - are financially able to meet their obligations to obtain coverage? Without solving this, you have only half a plan.

Well I can tell you that the money spent in hospitals, clinics and offices just getting insurance straight is a huge burden.  Your 5.9% is an absurdly low amount. 

I realize that insurance companies are doing their best to parse these numbers, but if you figure in their profits, (which don't even account for their expenses which are completely wasted funds to start with, since they provide absolutely NO service) and add in all the expenses every single medical provider has to spend on insurance pre-auth's, etc, even 30% starts to look small.

Don't fall for the insurance company take on this.  They are pure snake-oil salesmen who have everything to lose, and the American public has everything to gain.  Insurance companies provide ABSOLUTELY NO SERVICE WHATSOEVER!!!  Their income depends on denying coverage or excluding people who need it!  What other industrialized country would stand for this?  Why should we? 

Jan

I guess I didn't quite make myself clear.  Who decides what constitutes a "medical procedure" and how would that be determined?  Would Chiropractic be covered?  Would Naturopathy? Acupuncture? Other alternative medicines?  I used a procedure, dental implant surgery, which probably wasn't a very good example of what I was getting at.  Some insurance plans cover some of these, others do not.

aMike

Dear Representative Kagen,

I really appreciate your ideas and your willingness to answer questions. But, um... I'm a bit confused as to how people debate in Washington, I guess. Seems like every time somebody asks you a specific question like "is it mandatory?" or "what constitutes a medical procedure?" or "Why do we need private insurers in a system like this?" you just reiterate the points in your main post (transparency, unitary pricing and a single risk pool).

I am absolutely sure that everybody here understands your ideas, as you have explained them with startling clarity. The questions being asked are meant to probe beyond the plan as you've laid it out. It's really great that you're ansering people but a lot of your answers aren't addressing the questions that have been asked.

Sorry to criticize but if you take my advice on this, you've got a good chance of winning support for your plan.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com


As far as the definition of "procedure", a starting point is Current Procedural Terminology, a reference manual prepared under the administration of the AMA. Its goal is to have standardized terminology for the great majority of procedures. While it has codes 97810-97811 for acupuncture without electrical stimulation and 97813-97814 for acupuncture with electrical stimulation, the first code being for the initial needle stick(s) and the second for each additional 15 minutes of treatment, the presence of the code in CPT does not ensure coverage.

Many medical organizations, as well as the federal groups including NIH Consensus Committees and the Agency for Healthcare Research and Policy, issue guidelines on best practice, and on efficacy of treatments. The presence of a treatment in an independent practice guideline should be a starting point for coverage.

Would this be your starting point, Representative Kagen? Do you have others in mind? If I might throw out an example in your specialty, I've known insurers to cover skin testing for allergy but not RAST, both skin testing and RAST, or neither. RAST, of course, has improved over the years, but is not necessarily the "gold standard". How would the determination be made which would be covered?

Of course, mental/behavioral health services often are carved out of current plans. The role of psychiatrists has changed, in many cases, to managing psychotropic drugs and inpatient treatment, leaving outpatient psychotherapy to nonphysician professionals. Some plans, however, cover no psychiatrists, so if a primary physician is uncomfortable with a complex drug issue, the patient is forced to go out-of-network or not get appropriate consultation.

Challenges of Religious Issues

The Federal Employees Health Plan offers a wide variety of plans with different costs and coverage. This Plan is probably the best implementation of the "consumer cooperative" alternative to employer-based coverage, not quite worked out in Hillary's plan.

One plan is offered by Catholic institutions, and offers a lower cost with the understanding that abortion and birth control are not covered.

Research Challenges

Another aspect is coverage of the expenses of clinical trials. There are many cases, especially outpatient, where the experimental treatment proper and its monitoring are paid by the trial sponsor, but concurrent medical treatment for "unrelated conditions" may not be.

Assume that a patient is in a trial of Panaceamycin for pancreatic cancer, and shows up with an itching rash that appears to be a classic poison ivy exposure. In this case, the patient may be financially responsible. This gets rather difficult if the clinical trial later establishes that just such a rash is a side effect of Panaceamycin.


--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Congressman Kagan. You rather seem to miss the point of my post.

Look,transparency in pricing by providers does nothing to prevent insurance companies driving away customers they don't like - which is supposedly what your "one big risk pool" is supposed to do.

Normally if I need a new doctor, I don't call a doctor and ask what they charge. I get a referral from a current physician and call the person I'm being referred to and *find* *out* *if* *they* *take* *my* *insurance*.

So under your system, as now doctors will set a nominal price. Under your system, as now, insurance companies will actually pay only a portion of that posted price. Depending on the details of how your law is written, doctors will either end up with different payments from different insurance companies, or else be required to charge to everybody the lowest payment they accept from anybody. In the latter instance doctors will have an even stronger incentive than they do now to refuse insurance plans that compensate their specialty at too low a rate. So in either case, if your plan is fully implemented, someone with a more expensive disease will be driven into more expensive insurance plans. Yes all the insurance plans will nominally cover the same treatments. But less expensive plan A will not actually be expected by any kidney specialists or oncologists, or whatever type of provider treats really expensive patients, more expensive plan B will have a few such specialists, but not very many, so a kidney patient on plan B will have to wait a long time for access to a kidney specialist. Really expensive plan C will compensate specialists at a high enough rate that most will accept it.

So even with all your points transparency, consistency, one big risk pool, in practice each insurance plan is really its own risk pool, because insurance companies can drive patients out of particular plants by underpaying certain providers. You complain about this with Medicare, but it actually happens with all insurance plans. There is nothing in your plan to prevent it. In fact in may facilitate it, because the transparency will make it easier for providers to determine which plans they can afford to accept or reject. Remember from the insurers point of view, having certain doctors refuse to accept certain plans is not a bug; it is a feature.

Incidentally, this is just one example. There are all sorts of other ways insurers can drive doctors and patients from one plan to another, to basically make sure that either more expensive patients get driven away from the less expensive plans, and ideally away from their company entirely.

This is know as adverse selection. And if you intend to keep multiple insurers you need to figure out how deal with adverse selection. A law intending to establish one big risk pool, and minimum standards for insurance plans won't necessarily automatically do so.

Here is the bottom line. If it were legal health insurers would locate their offices on the top floor of a twenty story office building with no elevator. To apply for health insurance, or renew your policy annually you would have to walk up those 20 flights of stairs. Anyone who did not make it all the way to the top, or who was more flushed and out of breath when they reached the top than the insurance company thought appropriate would not qualify for insurance. More expensive policies would be available on the tenth floor. Really, really expensive policies might or might not be available on the first floor.

Since this is not legal, insurers use other means to accomplish the same thing. Congressman Kagen, remember your real world experience as a doctor, try to understand that it is quite possible for an insurer to craft a plan that meets every criteria you have named, but would still be impossible for you to accept and stay in business. If an insurer decided your patients were too expensive to treat, your bill leaves great gaping holes they can use to drive your patients out of their less expensive plans.

I think you'll find that when you figure in return to shareholders top management salaries and the entire payroll of people whose function is to screen out sick people and find creative ways of denying coverage, to say nothing of the entire legal departments of all these companies, that my estimate is more accurate.

Then there's the practitioner and hospital admin that you refer to, much of which, as someone else pointed out, is only necessary because of the insurance companies, not just being spent on things like things like staff reviews and ordering supplies.

And for what? What added value do insurance companies provide that Medicare does not? No one is able to answer that.

Because the entire health insurance industry is nothing more than a parasite. That's what it comes down to. It exists solely to skim health care dollars into the pockets of managers and stockholders. One of these days, a smart politician will realize that running against HMOs is even better than running against government.

Again, it bears repeating, other countries have solved this. They have made the political decision to spend less and therefore have waiting lists in some cases, but their populations are nonetheless healthier by virtually any measure.

At this point, I am reminded of the old economist's joke, in which one economist says to the other, "That's all very well and good in practice, but how well does it work in theory?"

I'm looking at my 2006 edition of Current Procedural Terminology, the guide to describing medical procedures for medical records, and, yes, reimbursement. While I can't count the number of 5-digit codes, it's a 582-page volume from 00100 "anesthesia for procedures on salivary glands, including biopsy" to 99602 "each additional hour of home infusion/specialty drug administration." CPT doesn't give codes for drugs, which are under the National Stock Number series.

I've also built hospital information systems, although I'm more on the clinical than billing side. Still, for every one of the procedures and drugs in a hospital, they may need to negotiate percentage discounts, or per-item discounts, with every insurer, and sub-plan of each insurer.

When the reimbursement for a given item doesn't cover actual costs, the provider has to decide if they can shift costs to cover it. Sometimes, they will drop a procedure completely if they consistently lose money that can't be recovered.

This discussion, incidentally, hasn't even touched the multiple issues in malpractice. Orlando and Denver hospitals, for example, have closed Level I or Level II trauma centers/ERs, because the premium for neurosurgeons was so high that neurosurgeons were not willing to practice there. Other malpractice-related costs come from doing tests to document things that won't affect care, but would be needed to defend a suit.

In the reverse direction, I've been told not to develop a capability, in a clinical system, that could backtrack to the source of errors. While all agreed that I could improve quality in the particular area, our marketing people found that hospitals would not buy a capability that, under discovery, could produce a roadmap of things to attack. Contrasting with this is mandatory no-fault reporting of near-misses in aviation, which the FAA uses in a continuous process of improving collision avoidance.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Maybe I missed it? I just read the good Congressman's plan to solve our nations health care crisis.

Not a single word about prevention?-WHAT!!?? Prevention-both individual(health behaviors) and institutional(public health)is our nation's(and for that matter all nations) only way out of this mess of trying to hopelessly economically sustain a high tech expensive treatment oriented "disease care" system.

Both individual and instutional prevention must be implemented

- incrementally because it is a huge medical sector shift
- with fairness
- always with compassion.

The $ saved from prevention will fund treatment for all of us when necessary.

I am for a modified HR 676 (Conyers/Kucinich"Medicare for All") but it must include much more prevention.

Congressman- What say you?

Thanks

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

EXACTLY. THEY DON'T PROVIDE A SERVICE!!! This is what people like Kagen just don't get.

NEWS FLASH!!!! HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T PROVIDE A VALUE-ADDED SERVICE. THEY EXIST TO MAKE PROFITS BY DENYING SERVICE.

It is appalling that all you want to do is tinker with the system and keep the profits rolling out to health care companies at the expense of delivering patient care.

And your idea is stupid, anyway. Universal risk pool my ass. Are you going to compel every citizen to buy insurance? No? Then people will wait until they get sick to sign up. Obviously. So premiums will still be sky-high for people who do sign up. You're a congressman and this is the best you can come up with?

The only way to keep insurance premiums down is to make sure that everyone in the risk pool, the sick and the healthy, are all paying.

What you are too fucking stupid to realize is that there is a system in this country already that works. Sorry to be abusive, but YOU STILL HAVEN'T SHOWN WHAT VALUE INSURANCE COMPANIES ADD.

Wanker.

It's time to tell the insurance companies to take a hike. Medicare for everyone, starting with the children.

All people like Kagen want to do is keep the gravy train rolling for the insurance companies by fobbing us off with some BS compromise before we get up on our hind legs and DEMAND national health insurance.

What I want to know is exactly how many people Congressman Kagen thinks should die to preserve the profits of health insurance companies.

Your call for quantitative analysis is bullshit. National healthcare has been done all over the world. The data are in. We have Medicare. Data in on that, too. There is no knowledge gap standing in the way, only the opposition of health insurance industry shills, Republicans and libertarian morons.

expatjourno2 -

Your post expresses a certain righteous anger which has unfortunately morphed into counterproductive ad hominum and somewhat vulgar attack.

Other than that, I completely agree with you.

Without universal participation and coverage, and a smart plan to make that coverage affordable to all, all the so-called solutions the Congresssman puts forth simply don't add up to anything approaching an actual remedy.

Well, when someone puts a bigger priority on helping insurance companies continue to profit at the expense of the injured, the sick and the dying, how vulgar is too vulgar?

What's vulgar is the effort to help insurance companies stay on the gravy train, thereby keeping everyone's health care costs unnecessarily high. What's vulgar is the Congressman trying to find a way to keep taking money out of the pockets of working families and keep handing it over to private insurance companies who don't do a thing for them that Medicare couldn't do if they took away age limits.

I've lived in Japan and Europe for more than 20 years. National health insurance works just fine. Everyone who knows anything about the issue knows it works just fine. People live longer, healthier lives in all of these countries.

Proposal's like the Congressman's are nothing but distractions. A disinformation campaign. It is this preposterous private system that leads to the lowest life expectancy in the industrialized world and the highest health care costs.

I don't think that the Congressman is ignorant of the facts. I think he is trying to obscure them. A little sand in the eyes of the voters. But if he IS that ignorant, well, that's disgraceful. Either way, he deserves no respect at all.

I'm against civility for people whose disingenuous or ill-informed ideas get people killed or drive them into bankruptcy.

It's not even that complicated.

Just start by making all children under the age of five eligible for Medicare, see how that goes and make adjustments, gradually raising the age until everyone is covered.

Or just choose any other industrialized country in the world and implement what it has. It'll be a vast improvement on what we have.

MANY of us disagree with continuing to pay to support the huge profits of private health insurance companies that add no value and deprive people of care.

THERE IS NO NEED FOR PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES AT ALL!!!

National health care has already been invented a few dozen times. If American weren't so pig-headed and arrogant, they'd just adopt one of the many systems around the world that works.

You are brilliant, Typo Boy. That is one really impressive comment.

Congressman Kagan,

When you write about this being for 'citizens,' do you mean just citizens, or citizens and legal residents of the United States?

With sentences like "If it's in your body - it's covered, and if you're a citizen - you're IN." it seems like it is limited just to citizens.

In that case, my excellent primary care doctor wouldn't be eligible for the healthcare he provides, because he's a legal resident. Nor would several of the nurses at my local medical center.

Nor would many of the hardworking entrepreneurs, engineers, and computer scientists in Silicon Valley, Redmond, and other research centers of the United States. Not to mention many of the scientists and researchers in universities and labs whose discoveries are driving the R&D economic engine of the US.

I'd assume that their not being mentioned is just an oversight, and that they wouldn't be deliberately excluded.

Never forget the epidemiologic/public health aspects. Multidrug resistant tuberculosis respects no passports or lack thereof. Any suggestion that seeking treatment for such might create conflict with immigration authorities allows a source of public danger to persist.

It is a separate question whether non-urgent medical care might be denied to illegal residents, although legislation like EMTALA certainly requires a basic level. One of the most dangerous assumptions of the general public is that antibiotics and immunization have conquered infectious disease. The war rages on, and the bugs sometimes win.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Expatjourno2

Upon further reflection, you're right.

The Congressman's suggestions do come off as half measures designed to keep insurance companies in business at the cost of our health. I never saw a response to the question of universal participation or how to pay for any of this. Lots of what he did spend time on was nothing more than "free market as the bringer of all good and solver of all problems" crap. We all know it ain't so.

Given the state of our health care system and the weak tea of the Congresman's "solutions" vulgarity is called for. I apologize.

Well, thanks! You even made my point better than I did. I think that you are generally right, though, that civility is preferable to vulgarity and I will try to use vulgarity judiciously. I would not have responded the way I did to another commenter, but the congressman, I think, really had it coming.

Rated up, but, really, Robert, we've been over what we mean by "free."

You can't keep bring up the same old arguments... 

 

"Thank God George Bush is our president." -Rudy Giuliani

One of the ironies is that he does have other points, not necessarily slam-dunk, but worth exploring if there can be serious discussing. To go back to classical market theory, the medical insurance system is an anomaly.

Prices classically are set by an interaction between ultimate consumer and ultimate provider. Of course, there are complicating factors such as wholesaler and transportation cost, but in few other markets is there the artificiality of taking the price interaction away from provider and consumer, and giving it to intermediates such as employer and benefits manager.

Earlier, I cited a CRS report that suggests that no one really knows if price transparency will have a major effect, given that such factors as the hospitals at which a doctor have privileges, and possibly a limited choice of specialists and facilities, may limit the price choice of consumers. There certainly are issues in discussing drug pricing by manufacturers, but this rapidly gets complicated by issues such as whether a more expensive drug has other efficiencies, such greater safety and efficacy.

Even with single payer, there's going to be administrative cost, and indeed a need to monitor for fraud. In the German system, the approach to detecting fraud or inefficiency is not case-by-case. It's generally statistical, looking for providers that, over a quarter, have statistically higher cost. Such situations are then examined, and the auditors recognize there can be legitimate (e.g., epidemics or a sicker patient population) as well as inefficient or fraudulent cost escalators.

There is, however, a huge difference between the micromanagement and preapproval of US insurers and the German system. While I have every confidence I'll get it solved, I am juggling between my primary physician's desire to change one or two of my drugs, the insurer's requirement for preapproval of his recommendation, and my own science-based opinion that the change is a very bad idea. My physician has always been willing to be wrong if I show him, for example, a molecular reason why what he wants to do is risky, just as he has accepted some cases where I made him comfortable I was acceptning a risk with full knowledge. Unfortunately, this role for patients isn't scalable.

If the Congressman simply dropped the insurance-industry-specific aspects of his plan and discussed admittedly controversial aspects that remain, all might benefit.
--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

I've been doing some thinking about this and I came up with an interesting plan for national healthcare...

The single payer system I propose is different from every other single payer system in the world because it would have three levels of public insurance, deductible, basic, and premium. Premium public insurance would be available to everyone at a higher tax rate than basic public insurance. All types of insurance would cover all preexisting conditions, prescription drugs, any and all medically necessary tests or procedures, and cover preventive care (Basic and Premium with no deductible). Premium insurance would have lower copays, not require referrals, and have a few other perks compared to basic insurance. Since the cost of premium insurance would be based on percentage of income, not charged at a flat rate, it will be an option for everyone. Deductible insurance is discussed below. In creating several levels of public insurance we solve the debate over lower taxes vs. more benefits by letting each individual chose for themselves which they prefer.

Insurance would be mandatory. Everyone pays a 3% tax for the public insurance program, and a higher tax rate depending on the plan a person uses. If a person has private insurance the 3% is all they pay, because it's not unlikely they would get dropped by private insurance and begin using a public program, and this would act as a progressive tax on the wealthy who would be more likely to have private insurance. Deregulate private insurance, let them drive themselves out of business, pick their insurance pools, drop people at will, etc. Anyone not covered under private insurance is immediately covered by basic public insurance (or their preselected type of public insurance) at a higher tax rate.

I'd also suggest a progressive 5 - 20% tax on corporations (which is less than many of them pay now) to help finance this program. Except the smallest corporations, and corporations with a low profit margin from this tax completely. This money would be distributed among the 3 plans based on the number of subscribers. Deductions could be offered to employers who directly subsidized their employees healthcare.

Each type of public insurance would set it own tax rate based on it's costs. Premium public insurance would be provided for free (subsidized by the general population) to certain groups, such as children, the elderly, the poor (people currently receiving Medicaid), and people with some serious chronic illnesses (including Cancer during treatment). The 3% base tax would be used to help pay for this.

The 3 Levels of public insurance. All levels cover any & all types of medical treatment required for any disease or condition, including mental health coverage.

1) Deductible insurance

? The government pays for medical expense over a 5% of a person's annual income
? A medical savings account containing the deductible would be required for this to prevent people from walking out on hospital bills
? After deductible is reached you continue paying the deductible rate & get basic healthcare, or pay less 2% more of your income (or the difference between premium and basic healthcare, whichever is less) to get premium care. 1 year after you reach you deductible you start paying the normal rate for either of those plans.

2) Basic Public insurance

? Pick your primary care physician, and get a referral to for specialists
? Copays around 20$ for appointment with you PCP (primary care physician), 35$ for a specialist
? 20% of any prescription under 125$, all prescriptions over 125$ cost 25$
? Higher fees for other tests & services, none above 50$

3) Premium Public insurance

? Pick your PCP specialists do not require referrals, but there would be limits on how often you could see a specialist in the same field without a referral (physicians could refer themselves if they wanted to see a patient often)
? 15$ copay for any dr. appointment
? 10% any script under 100$, $10 for anything 100-175$, $15 for anything 175$ +
? Fees for other tests & services stay below 20$


Emergency Rooms
Charge a 100$ fee for inappropriate emergency room use, 20$ for "non-critical care" (if someone was directed there by a doctor, or has a serious enough condition to warrant going to the ER), no charge for catastrophic accident use of the ER (if a persons would be unable to work for a period time after being admitted, or their were other significant economic consequences).

Profit
The fundamental problem with our current system is that profit is being made by denying people care. I have no problem with people making profit by providing quality healthcare services to patients, and I believe the profit motive can serve as an incentive to provide high quality care. Under a single-payer/multi-provider system, medical establishments make profit while working for the greater good. This involvement of profit is in everyone's best interest, as it increases patient chose and quality of care.

I have no objection to the government using tax money to massively subsidize biomedical research and the development of new treatments for illness. So I don't mind using tax money to pay high drug prices, if everyone who needs the drugs has access to them after they are developed.

Good start. Something often missing from proposals are the related but distinct areas of preventive and maintenance care. Preventive care includes both education for, and encouragement of, healthy lifestyles, but also specific interventions such as immunizations, or daily aspirin in people at cardiovascular disease risk who can take aspirin without risk.

Maintenance care, which sometimes can be very much a team process with clinicians of all levels, tries to make sure a diagnosed disease doesn't turn into an emergency and slows the rate of disease progression. It's interesting that in some cases, even very much for-profit insurers will pay for a fairly expensive maintenance treatment, without much protest because their financial analysis will show that if they don't hold the disease in check, they may face catastrophic expense.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

The premium plan here has extremely low copays for people who need more preventive care and medication. Others who don't need as much preventive care won't pay as much for it. Since it would be based on a percentage of income everyone could afford the premium plan if they needed it. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

One of the advantages of our current system is that everyone gets to pick a plan which best fits them. This continues that choice under a single payer system.

Do you agree that, subject to special restrictions such as religious objections to medical care, enrollment in at least the basic plan has to be mandatory?

I'm not sure preventive care can be treated as a premium. Take immunizations, a pretty clear part of basic prevention. Even in the current system where reimbursement is a problem, I've been impressed that my own primary care physician has a large sign in his office: no patient will be denied immunizations based on ability to pay.

Tetanus is preventable by initial immunizations, adult boosters about every 10 years, and sometimes a booster after an injury. If the disease does develop, it still can be 10% or so fatal even with a great deal of intensive care.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Yes, I agree with that. Children, the elderly (means tested), and the poor would have premium insurance for free, so immunizations would be provided free to children. If someone chose to use the deductible plan they would be required to keep the amount of the deductible in a medical savings account so they could pay for any care they needed which wasn't covered out of pocket (counting towards the deductible). I don't know who in their right mind would chose to have deductible insurance, but it should be an option for someone who wants it, if they're willing to keep the amount of their deductible reserved for medical use.

I disagree with putting immunizations as a premium and then making the premium insurance means tested. Immunization is as basic a health maintenance activity as can be imagined, and doing away with preexisting condition exclusion and going to a common risk pool is going to work only if there's an expected basic level of prevention and maintenance.

Some health maintenance activities may be considered more educational, but there's abundant outcomes evidence that smoking cessation assistance is cost-effective. Things like developing healthy eating and exercise patterns are desirable, but we really don't know how do induce such behavior.

Again, before moving something to premium, think about the cost impact of disincentives to demonstrably cost-effective preventive measures.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Everyone would be able to afford premium care if they wanted / needed it, because the cost would be based on a percentage of income. It would be proportionally cheaper for the poor than for the rich. All children would get premium care free. Only the wealthiest of the elderly would have to continue paying into the system after retirement. Exempting Bill Gates from full health tax at 65 doesn't make any sense to me.

Medical savings accounts, containing the amount of the deductible, would be mandatory for anyone using the deductible plan, to ensure people who chose to use that plan could afford what ever medical treatment they needed. Medical savings accounts would be optional for everyone else.

By definition there would be a common risk pool, but individuals would still have some choice in what medical plan they chose.

In many fields, there is choice, but up to a certain point. If I charter an aircraft, the pilot in command still has discretion whether or not to fly straight into a thunderstorm. If I have a cold and I tell my doctor to give me vancomycin and fentanyl, after he recovered from the shock, it would be a loud NO.

My concern is that you somehow seem to be suggesting things such as immunizations should be a premium, but that's all right if premium is always affordable. Taking insurance companies out of the picture, but then associating services with levels in a manner that doesn't make for rational medicine, is not going to solve the affordability of healthcare.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

I have no objection to making immunizations free for everyone. The only differences between basic and premium insurance are how high copays are, and whether or not you need a referral to see a specialist. My guess is most people would chose the basic plan, to avoid paying higher taxes or having to put up the deductible for a medical savings account.
People who have chronic conditions would be more likely to pay the higher tax rate for the premium plan, so they didn't have to pay as much for doctor visits and/or medication. The less you made the less you would pay in taxes for the premium plan, so my guess is this would be used more frequently by lower or middle income people, and not the wealthy. I can foresee some trouble funding the premium plan relative to the others (as it's users would have lower incomes and/or be sicker) so funding would be directed into it from other sources as well.
I figure the deductible plan would mainly be used by libertarians and Republicans who are opposed to public anything and have money. It's the closest thing that would be allowed to an opt out. If the money in a medical savings account is invested 1/2 of any interest earned above inflation should go back into the public system.

It may be premature to say what would be in what plan, especially things like seeing a specialist. For example, OB/GYNs, dermatologists, and interventional neuroradiologists are all specialists. There are outcomes-based studies suggesting that self-referral to the first two may be cost-effective.

My suggestion would be to focus on some metrics of cost-effectiveness of treatments, including quality-adjusted years of life, and concentrate on what treatments are covered as what level. In cetain diseases, such as myocardial infarction and congestive heart failure, cardiologists often treat more aggressively and can save money and human suffering. That being said, the diagnosis of a myocardial infection (i.e., "heart attack") is not always obvious, and sending patient with a pleuritic effusion to a cardiologist, rather than a pulmonologist, is a bad idea.

I would note that immunizations are still not free, but making them a part of basic coverage is economically rational.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

The basic plan would include preventive services affordably for most people. Having no copay for immunizations on the basic plan (and a low copay on the deductible plan) makes sense. The copay for medication on the basic plan would be higher than on the premium plan but still reasonable unless you were taking a lot of brand name medications. Prescriptions would be more than 25$ each no matter how expensive the medication actually was. This would encourage people to use cheaper/generic medications when possible. If someone needed to use more than one brand name medication they could pay into the premium plan instead of paying $50+ a month for their medication, and get all the medication they need at a reasonable price.

I support giving the premium plan at no extra cost (subsidized by business tax and 3% base rate) to people with moderate to low incomes who had certain chronic conditions requiring aggressive management (such as heart disease). This would ensure cost is not a barrier to their getting proper preventive care. Someone who uses multiple brand name medications for acne or allergies should pay extra to do so. Having an optional premium plan allows everyone that option on a sliding scale.

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