Honestly, I don't know why this surprises you. Everything is political with these guys. Especially other people's lives. You should have known when Bush horrified Tucker Carlson (of all people) by making fun of a condemned woman.

It doesn't surprise me. It horrifies me. And it explains alot. To these guys (especially the neocons) American fighting men and women are just cornfed dolts who should be honored to die in their holy wars.
The brilliant Tillman didn't fit that bill so they used him when they could and then turned on him with sheer venom once they realized he wasn't their boy.
Hell, I am naive. I was even surprised when I read that Hitler welcomed the destruction of Germany after his war failed as deserved punishment for the
weak kneed German people. The ostentatious display of patriotism combined with contempt for the people of the nation (and especially the soldiers) is truly instructive.

It appears that these moral midgets belong to some sort of God forlorn fraternity whose members think they draw power from creating death and suffering and that manliness is laughing at the sick, dying and dead.

Here is some information about the tragic death of Pat Tillman, proud member of the 75th Rangers.

I think ABrod is really Davai in disguise.

Beyond the disgust from the Bushies behavior there are three serious issues raised by your post. I find it useful to summarize them.

First, this is an oligarchy (has nothing to do with NeoCons) well crafted to enrich its members.

Second, there is absolutely no reason for a global permanent war. The is a world of difference between protecting against terrorism and starting a borderless war (see the latest Obama's Pakistani nonsense).

Third, the oligarchy ignores everyone, including Tillman, that doesn't belong to it. Since we decided to send to war mainly the disadvantaged and the poor, why should the oligarchy care?

Thank you for one of the best post I have ever read. Not because of Pat Tillman, but the entire underlying hatred of "the right thing" for America is exposed in stark terms.
From the bottom of my heart - Thank you

Abrod is just one of those people who are just innately uncivil.
I once had an idea for a book, "If This Country Is So Great, Why Are So Many People So Fucking Rude."

"better than if it had come to office dedicated to repealing the Emancipation Proclamation"

I'm sorry, but I believe that. as long as the slavery is outside our boundaries, it is still okay.

Remember that little embassy we are building in Iraq?
It'll be a $600 billion example that slavery is alive and well... and excused... as long as it done by a contractor instead of an official of the government...

Get a frikking life and post something with some substance.

How about a little substance in your own comments? You didn't offer a counter-example of the outrage that wasn't.

"a counter-example of the outrage that wasn't"

I really don't know what that means.

Look, my point was that the story made a claim that the adminstration "laughed" at Tillman's death, and yet there was not any specific or even general reference to any comment by the adminstration that could be considered "laughing" at Tillman's death.

It my humble opinion, the story therefore lacked substance, because while it was full of well deserved contempt for the adminstration, the premise lacked any basis.

OK? My tone may have been too harsh, but my point had substance.

Let's all move on.

Oh, how precious.

Your mighty pen, and deeply inspired Swiftian sarcasm, has simply smitten me.

You clearly travel among the peaks of wisdom. I am flattered that you have even deigned to put me in my place.

However, after you get down off your own petard, please cite where in the newspapers, tv and or NPR you found that the adminstration is "laughing" at Tillman's death.

You are insufferably smug. And it is the same pointless sarcasm in your "reply" that inspired your shrill screed like "The Adminstration Laughs Off Tillman's Death".

Sarcastic condescension and self righteous blather does not a "story" make.

My comment may have been harsh, but it was not snidely, sophmorically and smugly sacastic like your "reply".

(and just see if you can alliterate like that, big shot.)

Let's assume that nobody can find actual proof that an Administration official chortled at the propaganda opportunities created by Pat Tillman's death. Will you then feel that you have made some kind of a meaningful contribution here today?

I mean, is there any doubt that Tillman was used for propaganda purposes by this Administration? Is there any doubt that the real way he died was hidden from his parents by the Administration, and that his death was used to score political points and to deflect attention from the debacle in Iraq?

And, with all that, what upsets you is that someone claims without attribution that Rumsfeld chortled or the Administration chuckled?

What is your point anyway?

It came to office with one goal: to do everything it could to redistribute wealth in this country. And, from day one, it effectively worked to take from the middle and lower income groups and give to the super wealthy. Its entire domestic agenda was dedicated to this goal which, I suppose, was better than if it had come to office dedicated to repealing the Emancipation Proclamation. But it settled for doing everything it could to gut policies put in place by almost every President since Teddy Roosevelt to improve the lives of ordinary people.

Some might wonder if there's a difference, given what the Supreme Court just did to gut Brown v. Board of Education.

In the ante-Bellum Days, a debate developed which was in fact in worse condition, the free laborer or the slave. The principal author criticizing free labor practices was William J. Grayson, author of a very long (and pretty bad) poem entitled the Hireling and the Slave.

How small the choice, from cradle to the grave,
Between the lot of hireling, help, or slave!
To each alike applies the stern decree
That man shall labor; whether bond or free,
For all that toil, the recompense we claim
Food, fire, a home and clothing — is the same
The manumitted serfs of Europe find
Unchanged this sad estate of all mankind;
What blessing to the churl has freedom proved,
What want supplied, what task or toil removed?
Hard work and scanty wages still their lot,
In youth o’erlabored, and in age forgot,
The mocking boon of freedom they deplore,
In wants and labors never known before.
Free but in name — the slaves of endless toil,

He fails to win, by toil intensely hard,
The bare subsistence — labor’s least reward.
In squalid hut — a kennel for the poor,
Or noisome cellar, stretched upon the floor,
His clothing rags, of filthy straw his bed,
With offal from the gutter daily fed,
Thrust out from Nature’s board, the hireling lies:
No place for him that common board supplies,
No neighbor helps, no charity attends,
No philanthropic sympathy befriends;
None heed the needy wretch’s dying groan,
He starves unsuccor’d, perishes unknown.

Grayson wrote these words to defend slavery in comparison to free labor.  Of course I don't quote them in agreement with his objectives, but in exposure of the Bush Administration's hypocrisy behind the slogan Compassionate Conservatism.  Tillman deserved better from them.  So do we all.

aMike

Don't bother with Abrod.
The bumper sticker says it all:
"Mean People Suck."

On August 2, 2007 - 1:27pm bslev said:

Let's assume that nobody can find actual proof that an Administration official chortled at the propaganda opportunities created by Pat Tillman's death. Will you then feel that you have made some kind of a meaningful contribution here today?

Excellent question. :-)

Let me try an answer; "It shows how he Supports the Troops"

The post states: "Donald Rumsfeld and his GOP allies chuckled their way through yesterday's hearing on the death (friendly fire, murder, whatever) of the most famous soldier serving in the 9/11 wars, Pat Tillman."

ABrod, if you doubt the "chuckling" check out the video of the hearing - it's available at www.c-span.org. If you don't find enough chuckles and chortles to satisfy yourself that the post is accurate, then post your complaint.

It's likely Tillman pissed somebody off. Arguments get nastier in wars, for the obvious reasons, and murders are far from rare. I don;t know the numbers, but many novels and films have had exactly that as plot elements.

He could have easily been marginalized as a public voice, and it seems that was happening, if he was down to only Chomsky as a listener. No need to off him.

But the coverup is real. Where it mostly resided is another question.

I would agree with most of what you say except that the administration ignores everyone that does not belong to it. Nothing can be further from the case as Tillman and Valerie Plame found out.

Acclaiming abominable assholes always alliterate and add asinine and absurdly acerbic accusations.

-Agamemnon at Antioch

Why, indeed. That's the point. Investigating is tacit admission a murder happened, therefore the soldiers might be killers. Heavens to Betsy, we can't have that!

Catching the actual cuplrit exonerates every other soldier, but it's more important to portray the guys as angels without dicks.

I hope folks wake up to a couple of possible truths of the present.
1. A Republican creedo is that Government doesn't work... What better way to prove it than by bankrupting it in a series of endless conflicts and with constant assaults on our civil liberties in the name of "The War on Terror"

2. Folks still need to wake up to the fact that the stakes now are as high as the Civil War or Vietnam. There is an idealogy in place which will stop at nothing to achieve it's goals, and has sharply divided the country along sectarian political lines. This seriously may come down to another historic confrontation... In fact that adminstration is so convinced of thier idealogy that they are daring us to do it, and will continue to wage thier idealogical war until they win or die trying.

Unless folks wake up soon (and I mean by September when Betrayus comes back to tell the Congress we will have to continue the Status Quo) The damage done to our Democracy may become permenant.

At this point All I can hope for is that I can salvage my kids future by standing up now. The damage that has already done will take a generation to undo... Indeed if it is even possible to restore our Democracy to it's past "state of reasonableness"

Pat Tillman is just one of many warning signs along the current road we've been dragged along on. This adminstration will stop at nothing to hide the truth from us. The audacity of The President Claiming "Executive Priviledge" in regard to what he knows while everybody under him claims they didn't know anything about it is not just hubris but a direct assault on our Democratic Principles of Justice.

I am an Ex-Ranger and right now I am ashamed at most of my Ranger Buddies...To think that they are allowing this travisty to stand brings Dishonor to our Brotherhood and is just one more sign of how insane the proponents of "The Bush Doctrine" have become.

William Ranger Hazen

"Every one has a plan...Until you hit them in the mouth." Mike Tyson

Oh yeah, boy am I mean.

I am so mean I might even write:

They have "ideological hate that is their life-blood".

They "are . . . even happy to see the best of our youth die in wars they cook up . . . "

They laugh when someonr dies.

Oh, sorry, I actually did not write those mean things.

MJ wrote that!

Oh, but he is so nice, because he is right and the adminstration is venal, and ABrod is mean and sucks because he criticized MJ for saying those nice things and clearly true things.

I woke up in a decent mood, especially because my son actually took the garbage for a change last night.

However, my wife has complained recently that I have been getting crabby lately, so maybe you have a point.

On the other hand, maybe you weren't in the greatest mood when you wrote the story, so mabye that explains your tone!

Anyway, let's call it a draw and move on. My guess is that our opinions are very similar on the issues of the day, I just might write about them (if that were my job) in a more understated manner.

Carry on!

Gosh, was that so hard?

It seems to me that ABrod had a valid point in asking for the evidence that backed up MJ's assertion. When someone with whom one already agrees with makes unsubstantiated comments, that person usually gets a pass. Often, as MJ pointed out, the evidence exists and like minded folks have already seen it. Likewise, when someone offers an opinion that one does not agree with, the request for proof (or substantiation) is requested.

This happens regularly with political discourse.

I'm surprised that it took that many snarkey back and forth comments before Linus Too simply added a link to what many folks knew existed.

Y'all are far too sensitive. These semi-anonymous internet posting sites do not require or engender the same sort of decorum that one should expect from a face to face encounter. While nobody wants to be assaulted via inter-chat, most of us are sitting in a safe place where we can choose to read or not to read, to reply or not reply, to respond either impulsively or thoughtfully.

I prefer civil discourse myself. I also believe that there are often win-win solutions. Accordingly, I offer my thanks to Linus Too for both answering ABrod's question and for providing support to MJ's assertions.

...I once had an idea for a book, "If This Country Is So Great, Why Are So Many People So Fucking Rude."

HAHA MJ! That would indeed be a great book, both frustratingly annoying as well as sadly humorous.

I have an idea for a follow-up title... it's called American Myopic (I think you can picture the cover art in your mind even now) ;)

amike. :-)

Look, the way the death of Tillman was handled by this Bush gang and the Army shows just how horrid they are. At the hearing Abazaid said (paraphrase) 'People tried to do the right thing and they failed.' WTF did Abaziad mean by "the right thing"?

MJ's column on this case was a justfiable attack on the cretins who covered this up,
and if he arguably used some inflammatory rhetoric, well, I'm going to pass on looking for shit in the column.

ABrod should stop trying to imitate Diogenes
and save his gunpowder for more serious infractions, Christ knows, the world of politics is full of them.

I think it is instructive to consider the source of the Neocon phenomina. Its also instructive to consider that these people are very patient and willing to plot over a long period of time.

The last time Republicans so dominated American politics was in the 1920s. That gave us the 1930s: The Great Depression; which vaulted Hitler into Power; Which paved the way to World War II; Which gave us the holocaust; and as Churchill suggest in his "Finest Hour" speech, almost brought on a new dark age for Western Civilization.

My wealthiest friend has impelled upon me that rich people get rich because they get up every morning with the single purpose of making more money, regardless to how much they already have, and look at its acquisition as amoral. (He told me this in regard to my rich landlord keeping my $1000 security deposit after I went off to teach in Korea - she did it simply because she could). In a sense he's telling me that Wealthy people tend to be void of empathy (I think that's called schizophrenic). That schizophrenic quality explains the turning on the Tillman family.

In the wake of Roosevelt's Election some Wall Streeters plotted his over throw (See Business Plot in wikipedia). It seems reasonable to believe that Prescott Bush knew the plotters and probably of the plot and maybe had some complicity. The 1930s began the winter of their discontent, and at the hands of Roosevelt whom they branded as a class traitor.

The way out of this winter was to be a long time coming. The conservative movement reads like conspiracy, but is really nothing more than a movement - that is well funded and at times and places is well organized.

In the 1930s the Nazi's kick Leo Strauss out of Germany, not because they didn't like his political philosophy, but because he was Jewish. Had they not liked his views they might have simply killed him. Instead he ends up on our shores at the University of Chicago - the bastion of Conservativism founded by the Rockefellers.

Strauss is the source of the Neocon constituency of today. Rule by an Uber-Economic Elite and control of the masses by excessive religiosity (this is utilitarian religiosity - any religion will do so long as it holds the masses in thraw - thus right wing fundementalist of various sects tend walk hand in hand with each other: Jewish, Protestant, Catholic).

In essence, fundementalist are the 'brown shirts' of the right wing movement in modern American politics. If you dig past the surface of any fundementalist institution, such as the Institute of Religion and Democracy you will find that they were originally funded by foundation funds established by wealthy right wing elites.

During the 1950s the Republicans waged a nice holding war against liberalism by enlisting Eisenhower (a mistake that one senses Eisenhower regretted when he railed against the military industrial complex) and using Joe McCarthy for fear mongering.

In the 1960s institution building along the Straussian model took place in earnest. Right wing Fundamentalist Today we are reaping the fruits of that. In my mind the most troubling aspect of all is the penetration of the military academies by fundementalist Christians - The most noteworthy of this is the Air Force Academy - because if fundementalist come to dominate the officer corp of our military then the coup of the 2000 election is already completed.

The career of an officer is normally 20 years. It would take little more than 10 years to dominate the officer corp. Air Force Academy scandal broke out more than 4 years ago. We don't know how long that institution had been dominated by fundementalist Christians. We don't know how far the fundementalist have penetrated the other academies.

The scary thing is they people have lots of money, lots of time and lots of patience and really have nothing better to do than to undermine the American political experiment for the sake of a few more dollars.

And of course, the death of Tillman means absolutely nothing to them.

I am stunned by the banality of it all. But that's what comes from a schizophrenic movement.

The fact is our political institutions are going to have to get on top of the schizophrenic wealthy few instead of being on the bottom of them. The Europeans seem to have resolved this just fine. We have much work to do to de-claw them of their means.

He that hath a trade, hath an estate - from Poor Richards Almanac - Benjamin Franklin

In my limited experience as an Army legal clerk, the overarching principle is that the Army acts in its own best interests - and this includes matters of litigation.  

A classic example was the case of Captain William Carpenter in Vietnam.   He called a napalm strike on his own position, and won a Distinguished Service Cross. The backstory was pretty dismal.  He had disembarked with his platoon a couple of miles short of his target, and ended up in a valley.  The first blunder was to shoot a VC who was defecating along the river, alerting every enemy trooper in the valley that he was there.  The only way out of the valley was over a hill at one end, with two exits.  The hard one was around the left flank of the hill which was heavily wooded.  The easy one was over a hogsback clearing on the right side of the hill, and Carpenter chose that one.  He knew the woods below were full of VC, yet he chose the "easy" route and exposed his troops to the enemy in the clearing.  They were immediately pinned down by enemy machinegun fire - the whole platoon was trapped.  He called in for an airstrike, but there was no way to hit the enemy without the platoon itself being hit.  The man should have been courts marshalled for violating just about every rule in the book, the Army decided a medal would be in its best interest.  Carpenter stayed in the Army, and in 1984 was promoted to the rank of Major General.

Neoboho

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