America and Israel's Endless Hypocrisy
Those readers who complain that I'm optimistic even when optimism is not warranted will have no such problem with this column.
There is little cause for optimism today. Both Israel and the United States are pursuing the "divide and conquer" strategy with the Palestinians and it simply is not going to work. The Palestinians are not going to remain divided, nor will the side embraced by Israel and the United States hold popular support – probably not even in the West Bank.
Pending their "reunification," it would be wise to seek out Gaza moderates we can do business with rather than assume that out of the current morass will arise a Palestinian "partner" who will submit to the demands and conditions Israel and the Americans put forward.
Nor will the Palestinians remain weak. At this point, Israel should cut a good deal with them rather than wait until they are in a position to demand more than they are asking for now. Is it better to negotiate after violence returns to Israel's major cities or when the Iranians (or even Al Qaeda) are playing major roles? Israel rejected President Sadat's offer to negotiate in 1971, when Egypt was weak, and instead was forced into negotiations two years later after Egypt pulled off an attack that killed 3000 Israelis.
Sadly, neither Israelis or Palestinians seem to learn very much from history. But it's not all bad news. On Tuesday, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert gave a remarkable interview to the Dubai-based satellite television network, Al Arabiya.
It was a wide-ranging interview on the whole Middle East scene. Olmert in no way seemed like a leader on his last legs. Like his recent predecessors, Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak, he has a firm grip of the issues and no reticence about saying where he stands.
The most surprising part of the interview was Olmert's clear determination to negotiate with Syrian President Assad, whether the United States wants him to or not.
PM Olmert: I would be very happy to make peace with Syria. I don't want to fight Syria. I am saying this to Bashar Assad: "Bashar Assad, you know that I am willing to negotiate peace directly with you. And you know, and you always say that you are willing to negotiate only through the Americans." Bashar Assad does not want to sit down with me. He wants to sit with the Americans. The Americans don't want to sit with him. I am willing to sit with him, if he is willing to sit with me. We will talk about peace, not about war. I don't want to fight Syria.
Interviewer: So are you inviting him to Jerusalem?
PM Olmert: Assad has already heard from me. He heard many things from me. I can't tell you what he knows.
Interviewer: I would like to hear. PM Olmert: He will confirm to you that he heard from me. But his answer is that he wants to talk to the Americans, but the President of the United States said, "What do you want from me? I don't want to come between you and Ehud Olmert. Do you want to talk to Ehud Olmert? Does Ehud Olmert want to talk to you? Sit down and talk." I am willing to talk to him.
Interviewer: Where?
PM Olmert: Anywhere he agrees to.
This is pretty remarkable. Olmert is telling President Assad on an Arab regional television station, no less, that he is ready to negotiate with Syria, without conditions. And he is not giving the Bush administration a veto.
This is significant. It is significant because successful negotiations would: (1) end Syria's role as Hamas's financial bulwark, (2) result in the expulsion of radical Hamas leader Khaled Meshal from Damascus, (3) end Syrian support for Hezbollah and especially its role as chief conduit of arms to Hezbollah and (4) eliminate Iran's point of entry into Israel's immediate region.
In return, Israel would give up the Golan Heights, a significant price to pay but one most Israelis would accept in exchange for shutting down its most radical adversaries. But will Assad go for the deal? Probably not. However, with Syria under increasing international (particularly French) pressure over its role in the assassination of former Lebanese President Rafik Hariri, he might soon have no choice. One caveat, however: Israel cannot make peace with Syria over the prostrate body of Lebanon. Any Israeli-Syrian deal has to provide for Lebanon's independence and security.
In any case, Olmert deserves credit for making this offer. As for Assad, he knows that Olmert is putting the Golan Heights on the table. What more can he expect?
Unfortunately, Olmert's realistic way of dealing with Syria does not carry over to the Palestinians. In the same interview where he reaches out to Assad, Olmert goes on and on about how violent Hamas is and describes in horrific detail what Hamas members did to Fatah people during their takeover of Gaza. He says that he just can't deal with such people.
But the fact is that nothing Olmert describes matches what the Syrians have done to Israelis, living and dead, whenever they get their hands on one. Following the Yom Kippur War, the late Congresswoman Bella Abzug would accost fellow House members to show them photographs of Israeli soldiers – some alive but in captivity, some killed – from the Golan front. I will not describe them but they are about the worst example of barbarism I have ever seen. I remember looking at what the Syrians had done to these boys and wanting to throw up.
But Olmert is not allowing the horrors of '73 stop him from pursuing a deal with the Syrians now – even though all evidence is that if the Syrians had the opportunity, they would repeat their actions of '73. Even today one shudders at what two captured Israeli soldiers are going through at the hands of Syrians or their Hezbollah allies. Nevertheless, Olmert is looking at the big picture. If dealing with Assad will help him advance Israel's security, Olmert will negotiate with someone he considers a thug and a killer.
Why doesn't that apply to Hamas if it agrees to end all attacks on Israel? It has so agreed in the past, and kept its promise until Israel broke the cease-fire.
Enough with the conditions. The only one that matters is stopping the violence. Everything else can be resolved in negotiations, same as with Jordan, Egypt and the PLO and now, according to Olmert, Syria.
And enough with the hypocrisy from the United States. The United States is this week normalizing relations with oil-rich Libya, despite the fact that Libya has still not paid full compensation to the families of the 270 passengers – including dozens of American college kids – killed when its agents shot down Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.
To their credit, Senators Lautenberg, Clinton, Schumer, and Menendez intend to block the appointment of a US ambassador to Libya until it pays up. Meanwhile, our new friend, Qadaffi , has also just sentenced five foreign nurses to death (four Bulgarians and a Palestinian) for allegedly intentionally infecting hundreds of Libyan children with AIDS upon orders from the Mossad. The nurses have already been in prison for ten years, where they have been raped and tortured. They are, of course, innocent.
And yet we talk to Libya because, the Bush administration says, there are larger interests at play. The bottom line is that we have no universal standard on terrorist supporters or war criminals unless it is that dealing with bad guys who actually run states is okay but dealing with stateless bad guys is unacceptable. (Except, of course, in Iraq where we ally ourselves with various sectarian militia squads). It makes no sense and pretty much the entire world sees through the hypocrisy. It is this kind of hypocrisy that has utterly eroded our standing worldwide. Enough already.
ALSO, read Dr. Jerome Segal's excellent piece in Ha'aretz on how Israel and the Palestinians can make peace within 12 months.
Excellent post MJ. I read this earlier at IPF and linked to it in my own TPM Cafe Blog.
My blog also links to a column in today's Haaretz by Jerome M. Segal, in which he lays out a comprehensive multi-step peace process that anticipates participation by Hamas. I'd love to know what you think of Segal's recommendations. Segal's column can be linked to directly here.
[If that short-cut doesn't work, this is the direct link to Segal's column: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/881393.html]
Nice work MJ. Ciao.
Bruce
July 13, 2007 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haven't we been looking for a Palestinian moderate for 40 years and failed to find one yet?
I don't see why any of this can be considered to be on Israel at this point. The Palestinians have made atrocious choices every step of the way for decades. (Well, except for the smart ones who've emigrated.) We have enabled them every step of the way. Is it really so unconscionable that at long last, we simply leave them to reap the consequences of their own folly and get on with their own lives? Is there really any help at this point that is not worse than forcing them to confront the reality they've made for themselves?
July 13, 2007 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regarding Lybia, their agents didn't shoot down a plane, the plane was blown up.
And a Scottish judicial review board recently ruled that the case against the Lybians was tainted by US and British manipulation of the evidence and is “a miscarriage of justice”.
Also read here.
Now that we are pals with Lybia, expect new evidence to arise showing Iranian complicity in the Lockerbie bombing.
July 13, 2007 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mgmax - The Palestinians are not the only ones who have made atrocious decisions in this conflict. Israel's atrocious decision to start and expand the settlement enterprise has been a major irritant and stumbling block to conflict resolution.
Israel wanted Jerusalem and the arable land and aquifers in the West Bank and simply took them. As to having the Palestinian's "reap the consequences of their own folly and get on with their own lives?" the real question is "what lives"? Do you really expect confining the Palestinians to 4 or 5 "reservations" (the term used by my settler relatives) will really bring Israel any sense of security? Do you think perpetual conflict and stress is capstone of our people's quest? Is the dishonor of the settlements and occupation the purpose for which we have struggled for thousands of years? Can we really call Israel our home when we displace other's homes?
We need to solve this conflict equitably - not only for the sake of Palestinians but for our own sake and for our own souls.
July 13, 2007 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Bruce. Segal's piece is great and I added a link to it too.
Thanks for flagging it for me.
July 13, 2007 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you really expect confining the Palestinians to 4 or 5 "reservations" (the term used by my settler relatives) will really bring Israel any sense of security?
Do you think anything will?
I don't claim to know what will fix this conflict. I don't claim to consider it fixable, frankly.
But what I do know is that relentlessly bashing America's and Israel's actions has enabled the worst habits of the Palestinian leadership and people without producing peace, ever.
To return to my first question-- Rosenberg's proposal calls for dialogue with "Palestinian moderates." Is there any evidence that such a figure exists, or has ever existed? If it all depends on a chimera like that, what good is this scenario?
July 13, 2007 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
The idea that there are no Palestinian moderates makes as much sense as the equally ridiculous idea that there are no Israeli moderates.
In fact, according to every poll, 2/3rds of the respective populations of each accept the right of the other to statehood and security.
July 13, 2007 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. George W. Bush said in 2003 that "it is tragic when the vast majority of the Palestinian population, which is moderate and open to peace with Israel, has been betrayed by a leadership that
is neither."
I disagree with that. I think Arafat was a moderate who adhered to Oslo every bit as much as Israel did.
But it's weird to find people at TPM who have even
less understanding of Palestinians than our dim leader, But apparently we now have Mgmax. Lucky us.
July 13, 2007 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys just don't get it. You're suckers in a twocard monte game, where you keep trying to find "peace" under one of the cards, and you keep betting and hoping whilst more Palestinians are ethnically-cleansed and more Jewish-only settlements expand on their lands.
Here's the absolute, incontrovertible fact:
Israel does not want peace.
Israel wants land.
And Israel is willing to do whatever is necessary to get more land.
If that means attacking and murdering Palestinians and stealing their land, so be it.
If it means distracting everyone with all this nice-nice talk about peace whilst Israeli occupation zones continue to "naturally expand" and "spill over" into yet more Palestinian land, so be it.
And once they're done wiping out the Palestinians, they'll go to work on stealing the lands of the Lebanese, Egyptians, Syrians or whoever else happens to own their "Greater Israel" - all the while moaning about how they're the victims and how they really just want peace.
Why do you think the Israelis have consistently dismissed Arab peace efforts, violated cease fires and intentionally provokes uprisings? Why do you think that the Israelis refuse to declare their own borders?
Look, the Israeli leaders like Ben Gurion have admitted this themsevlves, Its not a secret:
It is about time you opened your eyes. At some point you;re going to have to face facts. What is it going to take?
In "Israel" there is a town called Giv‘at Shaul Bet. Google it. Check to see what was its prior name. Look into what happened there. That is Israel.
The Israelis killed everyone, took the land, settled Jews on the bloodstained land belonging to the murdered Palestinians, and changed the town's name. In the Knesset, Yaakov Meridor proudly exclaimed: "Thanks to Deir Yassin, we won the war!" and encouraged more ethnic cleansing of innocent palestinian farmers from their lands and Israel expanded. And that happened all over Israel, and has been happening everyday since. It happened yesterday. It will happen again tomorrow.
That is Israel.
All this talk about whether there are moderates or not etc, is just distractions to keep you entertained while more expansionism goes on. When are you going to face facts?
July 13, 2007 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Israel does not want peace.
Israel wants land."
Why ? Why Israel wants more land?
Do you think that Israeli people like to send their children in West Bank or Gaza for 3 years?
There is a democraticy (at least for Jews) in Israel.
Yes, They want to preserve Jewish state of Israel, therefore they will be "attacking and murdering Palestinians" to defend "apparteid" Jewish state of Israel, they will continue to commit "war crimes" and "genozide".
For sake of argument, let's agree on this.
But I think that "apparteid" Jewish state of Israel prefer real peace over extra land.
July 13, 2007 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno. I like to stay clear of Palestinian/Israel issues. Don't like the company really. Even tangentially skirting it can be awkward.
But a few observations. Peace with Syria doesn't make Hamas or Hezbollah go away. These are indigenous grass roots organizations which will remain active and virulent.
Second, getting Syria to cut off Hamas or Hezbollah is a nice thought, but then what? Neither Hamas nor Hezbollah will wither away. Instead, they'll likely become more radical, beholden to know one, or they'll move further into Iran's orbit.
The trouble with a Hamas and Hezbollah primarily in Iran's orbit is that Iran is a lot tougher nut for Israel to crack than Syria is. Syria's right next door, its practically destitute, and its a pushover.
Iran is two countries away, its rich, and its not a pushover. Lots of immunity, lots of insulation to protect it. Which means that there's a lot less moderating influence and a lot more radicalizing influence on Hamas and Hezbollah.
Assad's ass was always on the line if Hamas and Hezbollah got too far out of hand. He knew he could be taken out. No one is taking out Tehran. There's nothing to inspire the Iranians to rein in Hamas and Hezbollah.
To the extent that Assad had influence, he used it to keep a lid on things. End that influence... maybe not such a good idea.
Also
I'm glad Israel is such a great defender of Lebanon.
What was that country again that invaded Lebanon last year, targeted and killed thousands of civilians, targeted and destroyed billions of dollars of civilian infrastructure, caused an environmental catastrophe in the Mediteranean, and dropped cluster bombs all over southern Lebanon?
The name of it is at the tip of my tongue. Oh well, it'll come to me.
July 13, 2007 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Valdron,
"targeted and killed thousands of civilians,"
You just can't help yourself.
Overall, you wrote very thoughtful post but still..
Obviously, Israel didn't TARGER civilians.
Second, number of civilians killed is probably
July 13, 2007 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi all,
Does anybody actually read what MJ actually say?
Not a single word make any sense.
"Is it better to negotiate after violence returns to Israel's major cities"
The reason that there is no violence is not for the lack of trying, it's because of fence and because Israel doesn't allow Gazafication of West bank.
"when the Iranians (or even Al Qaeda) are playing major roles? "
Iranians are already playing major role.
"they are in a position to demand more than they are asking for now."
So what they are asking now? What they might ask later?
"The only one that matters is stopping the violence"
There is very little violence against Israel.
Thanks to Sharon, Palestinians lost Second Intifada.
"And enough with the hypocrisy from the United States"
US were hypocritical in WW2. Do you have a problem with this? They supported one
murderer, Stalin, but not another murderer Hitler.
"Why doesn't that apply to Hamas if it agrees to end all attacks on Israel?"
They can't do too much anyway. They practically stopped attacking Israel because they can't do much.
MJ, as useful idiot, wants to help Hamas to re-arm and take over West Bank.
You might think that Israel has stupid leadership but not that stupid.
So, I don't mind negotiating with Hamas, but it's very tricky issue.
It seems to me that M.J. doesn't have a clue about real issues in such negotiations.
July 13, 2007 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L08225712.htm
Costs of the Israeli War on Lebanon, 2006, from Reuters (edited):
LEBANON
There's also the Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Lebanon_War
Not targeting civilians my ass.
July 13, 2007 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lebanon was nicely rewarded for getting rid of Syrian military presence which would give some pause to Israeli attacks all over her teritory.
We also cannot make our mind: should Lebanese Army be armed sufficiently well to be a significant force? Either it is weak enough to assure that any Israeli incursion as a walkover (at least, as far as the resistance of Lebanese Army is concerned), and accidentally, it is too weak to take on Hezbollah, or it is made credible and strong enough to take on Hezbollah, but also to resist Israel. Case in point: an umbrella of solid air defence can be a strong inducement for southern Lebanese to defer to the protection of the government.
As it is, Lebanese military barely prevailed against ca. 50 militants of a fringe movement.
By the way, Iran will not necessarily stay forever "two countries over". That's why Iraqi occupation is such a deep shit. We are bleeding to postpone a debacle. However, I am not sure where is the chicken and where is an egg here. Iran perceives us as a threat, so it feels a need to gather all malcontents in respect to our power (our our proxies). We view the support of those malcontents as hostile, so we keep threatening them.
Which is somewhat stupid given that we actually have common interests. Number one, the flood of Afghan heroine is a serious problem in Iran, while narco-warlords are a destabilizing force in a place that we would rather keep stable. Iran actually offered to finance (and conduct?) a very extensive crop-substitution program, an offer that was rejected. Neither of us is fond of Salafist militants. If we prefer a bit too stong states to the anarchy of fallen states, Iran filling power vacuum in Iraq after our withdrawal would be a good development.
However, in the vicinity of Israel, we would rather have a fallen state than a bit too strong one. This is the easiest way for the only remaining superpower to loose a war: have a bunch of mutually contradictory goals.
July 13, 2007 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
First, lets decode your use of Zionist code language: protecting the "jewish" state of Israel REALLY means using genocide to protect the artificially-created jewish domination over the majority non-Jews of Palestine. In short, what you're defending is pure racist apartheid.
And lets take a close look at how you "defend" yourself:
A Human Rights Watch investigation of the Israeli attack on Jenin refugee camp in April 2002 found that "Israeli forces committed serious violations of humanitarian law, some amounting prima facie to war crimes." Some 4,000 Palestinians, more than a quarter of the camp's population, were rendered homeless in "destruction [that] extended well beyond any conceivable purpose of gaining access to fighters, and was vastly disproportionate to the military objectives pursued." Typical of the Israeli atrocities HRW documented in Jenin were these: a "thirty-seven-year-old paralyzed man was killed when Israel "Defense" Force bulldozed his home on top of him, refusing to allow his relatives the time to remove him from the home"; a "fifty-seven-year-old wheelchair-bound man…was shot and run over by a tank on a major road outside the camp…even though he had a white flag attached to his wheelchair"; "IDF soldiers forced a sixty-five-year-old woman to stand on a rooftop in front of an IDF position in the middle of a helicopter battle." A senior HRW researcher further observed that what happened at Jenin was "not so different from any of the attacks" during Operation Defensive Shield, with Nablus and Ramallah suffering worse depredations.
Anyway yeah see, no one cares what you think. You and your ilk are the morons sent to murder the Palestinians because you're brainwashed into thinking that you're "defending" yourself by shooting children and dispossessing grandmothers.
But these are the facts: Tom Segev wrote: "'Disappearing' the Arabs lay at the heart of the Zionist dream, and was also a necessary condition of its existence…. With few exceptions, none of the Zionists disputed the desirability of forced transfer - or its morality."
The facts of continual Israeli racist Zionist aparheid expansionism and the on-going genocide of Palestinians and illegal appropriation of Palestinian lands as documented even by Israeli human rights sources, as well as the deliberate Israeli provocations and cease fire violations, all speaks for itself. Res Ipsa loquitur.
Israel is fundamentally an expansionist racist state built entirely and totally on the conception that the "Superior" Jews must recreate their mythical non-existent Greater Israel of the past, and that necessarily requires murdering and ethnically-cleansing the inferior non-Jews from their homes and lands.
And that is precisely what has been going on for the last 60 years, and that is precisely what their own leaders have openly and repeatedly espoused. Eretz Israel is their goal.
Again, none of this is a secret. Read more Imperial Israel And The Palestinians: The Politics of Expansion
July 13, 2007 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Not targeting civilians my ass."
Stop thinking with your ass, please use your head instead.
"In addition, Hezbollah fighters can be difficult to identify as many don't wear military uniforms.[9] However, it has been widely reported that the majority of the Lebanese killed were civilians"
Widely reported based on what? Hisbolla propoganda?
"The dead include about 270 Hezbollah fighters " is obviously extremly low number if you use your head instead of your ass.
In any case, you were wrong talking about thousands civilians killed. Hundreds of civilians were killed not thousands (if you do the math using your head).
There is no hint of evidence that they were targeted. Articles you pointed to, don't support your claim that civilians killed in the war were targeted.
July 13, 2007 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
"First, lets decode your use of Zionist code language: protecting the "jewish" state of Israel REALLY means using genocide to protect the artificially-created jewish domination over the majority non-Jews of Palestine. In short, what you're defending is pure racist apartheid."
Let's agree for the sake of argument that you are correct.
Still, why would this "racist apartheid" Jewish state of Israel want more land and don't want peace if this peace would allow Israel to exist as Jewish state of Israel?
July 13, 2007 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are correct, fatalities were not in the thousands, but around a maximum of approximately 1200 to 1100 Lebanese were killed.
By most accounts, the vast majority of them civilians. According to UNICEF approximately 30% of them were children.
The targetting of civilians is seen in the indiscriminate, or perhaps the carefully discriminating manner of the bombing.
Thousands of civilian houses were struck. What's that, oopsies? How do you accidentally or inadvertently strike tens of thousands of houses.
Targets included civilian infrastructure, water, power, roads, etc. More oopsies?
What were all those cluster bombs dropped in civilian areas? More oopsies?
From the initial Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeting_of_civilian_areas_in_the_2006_Lebanon_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_war_crimes_in_the_2006_Lebanon_War
Notably:
Then there's this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Lebanon_War
Hmmm something to hide?
Or explain this:
What do all these people have in common, apart from their international status? They were civilians in civilian areas.
Very clearly, they were not Hezbollah. They were not combatants. They had no intention of being anywhere near Hezbollah.
They did not go to war. The war came to them. Israel's bombs came to their civilian neighborhoods.
Don't tell me that a country's military which can easily blow up an old man in a wheelchair on the steps of a mosque has suddenly become so incompetent that it can't help but blow up endless civilian targets in an effort to hit the bad guys.
What, did Mr. Magoo join the IDF? Israel was on its national stupid pill week?
No, sorry. I'm going to assume that Israel's Defence Forces were their usual supremely competent selves.
I'm going to assume that Israel's air force was not at that time piloted by monkeys and downes syndrome patients dropping bombs while they masturbated.
Rather, I'm going to assume that these were highly professional world class pilots flying state of the art machines, making use of GPS systems, laser targetting systems, satellite and aerial photography and some of the most sophisticated technical intelligence in the middle east. And I'm going to presume that they were firing precision bombs and missiles, laser guided smart weapons, etc.
All of which means that we must assume if they hit something, they had some idea what it was and they clearly meant to hit it.
Which means that if they destroyed tens of thousands of civilian houses, deployed cluster bombs in civilian areas, destroyed factories, dairies, civilian infrastructure that had no possible military application, and killed at a minimum, several hundred or around a thousand civilians... then that's probably what they set out to do.
Now, I really have nothing but contempt for you, Davai. I feel no urge to have a discussion with you, and I feel that there's no fruit to be born of that discussion. In my view, you're merely seeking a platform to vent racism and dishonesty. Please go vent it on someone else.
I will not be replying further to your provocations.
July 13, 2007 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dear Valdron,
Your original statement
"targeted and killed thousands of civilians"
was wrong. You corrected your original statement:
"You are correct, fatalities were not in the thousands, but around a maximum of approximately 1200 to 1100 Lebanese were killed."
" feel that there's no fruit to be born of that discussion"
There is a fruit, we corrected mis-information.
Thank you for correction.
- Davai.
July 13, 2007 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
deleted
July 13, 2007 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Valdron corrected his mis-information. How about you -
July 14, 2007 12:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
mj, there ya go again, posting another column guaranteed to attract the fringe.
This column looks like it will be a 250 reply generator. :-)
July 14, 2007 5:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
July 14, 2007 5:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
On July 14, 2007 - 2:48am davai said:
Dear Valdron,
Your original statement
"targeted and killed thousands of civilians"
was wrong. You corrected your original statement:
"You are correct, fatalities were not in the thousands, but around a maximum of approximately 1200 to 1100 Lebanese were killed."
" feel that there's no fruit to be born of that discussion"
There is a fruit, we corrected mis-information.
Thank you for correction.
- Davai.
MJ, as useful idiot, wants to help Hamas to re-arm and take over West Bank
If you value correcting mis information as you seem to imply, I suggest you correct the above regarding what MJ wants vis a vis Hamas.
July 14, 2007 6:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's sad. MJ is naive about Israel's intentions. He refuses to see that Israel has no interest in peace despite all the evidence.
Nevertheless, he puts out these well-thought out pieces that seek a way out for Israelis and Palestinians both. He may be wrong but he's one of the good guys.
So who attacks him. Fellow Jews. Rightwing Zionists. Meir Kahane types like Davai.
That is why there never will be peace. The rightwing Jews dont want it.
I'm on several Palestinian lists and they, while not agreeing with MJ, send out his stuff because they see him as fair. You can be damn sure no Jewish organization except those on the left will distribute MJ.
Makes me understand why, minutes after Rabin was shot, a Palestinian friend here in the US called and said, "it will be a Jew. Rabin had gone from being our enemy to Arafat's partner. Only a Jew would kill him."
July 14, 2007 6:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
OK, There is no a hint of evidence that Israel tried to kill them. There is plenty of evidence that Israel tried to minimized the number of civilian casualties. You can argue that Israel could do a better job or Israel was negligent but not that Israel tried to kill civilians.
July 14, 2007 7:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure, I don't really know what MJ wants.
Let me correct my statement,
If Israel listen to MJ, useful idiot, the result could be that re-armament of Hamas and Hamas takeover of West Bank.
July 14, 2007 7:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
"The idea that there are no Palestinian moderates makes as much sense as the equally ridiculous idea that there are no Israeli moderates."
Name three Palestinian moderates.
In positions of authority.
July 14, 2007 7:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
So is Abdul-Hass a moderate?
July 14, 2007 7:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
"That is why there never will be peace. The rightwing Jews dont want it."
Yeah, they keep sending pregnant women to blow up buses and stuff like that.
July 14, 2007 7:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for proving that MJ is an useful idiot.
You are correct, Jewish state of Israel has no interest in "peace" that you and your friends demand.
"That is why there never will be peace. The rightwing Jews dont want it."
Not only rightwing Jews dont want it.
MJ doesn't want "peace". Even Mark doesn't want
"peace". I doubt that even Chomsky wants "peace".
As long as you and your Palestinian friends don't want to accept Jewish state of Israel, real peace is not possible.
July 14, 2007 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
MGMAX, you don't know diddly about the Middle East, as is evidenced by your posts. I see that you also post to defend Cheney and oppose impeachment. You are deadwrong there too (standard rightwing stuff) but you seem to know your stuff. Stick to impeachment. You add nothing here. Note 1300 Palestinian bystanders have been killed by the Israeli army since that one pregnant terrorist got on a bus. But, to types like you, the only good Arab is a dead Arab or one who collaborates with Israel.
Davai is a dummy on everything (6th grade education, all D's) but you seem to know your Constitution and use it deftly in your failed attempts to defend Dick Cheney,
July 14, 2007 8:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
John W, I'll wear em down. I imagine Josh likes the traffic I attract. I wish the loonies would go
troll some other author. I'd rather have 50 good comments than these endless back and forths with nutcases.
On the other hand (and I honestly don't know how these things work), if the Davais and the others actually puts a nickel in TPM's pockets by their posts, let a thousand Davais bloom!
July 14, 2007 8:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
" Note 1300 Palestinian bystanders have been killed by the Israeli army since that one pregnant terrorist got on a bus. "
I'm guessing it's a lie.
How many terrorsists were killed? I'm never heard from defenderers of terrorist acts any numbers.
I suspects that they are trying to include terrorists/feedom fighters in overall number of Palestinians casualties.
July 14, 2007 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Notice, that useful idiot MJ has no problem with
Adbull, Madison, Seth, Valdron, Reece and the rest of loonies.
July 14, 2007 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's Mister Loony to you.
July 14, 2007 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was wrong, you don't exactly fit to that list.
July 14, 2007 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Valdron, work on your self-esteem issues. I don't agree with you but I'd never compare you to Davai.
July 14, 2007 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Confucious say:
"Only useful idiot call person other than self "useful idiot"
Um, that may have been Charlie Chan not Confucious.
July 14, 2007 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
mj, you seem to be using the Bush "flypaper" tactic.
(here goes another nickle to Josh)
July 14, 2007 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
According to your definition, you are useful idiot, because you suggest that I'm useful idiot :-)
July 14, 2007 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think that this is the most sophisticated discussion Davai has ever had.
July 14, 2007 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I will not be replying further to your provocations."
July 14, 2007 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
My bad
July 14, 2007 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's the second time today you corrected yourself.
I only MJ can learn from you :-)
July 14, 2007 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's no shame in being wrong.
There's only shame in refusing to learn from it.
So, you still arguing that one of the most sophisticated air forces in the world went all Willy Wonka when they crossed the Lebanese border?
Suddenly, they couldn't tell a dairy farm from a Hezbollah command center? They mistook a water pumping station for a weapons factory? A civilian apartment building for a training camp? Intelligence was that good, was it?
July 14, 2007 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Suddenly, they couldn't tell a dairy farm from a Hezbollah command center"
Of course not. Hisbolla used dairy farms and civilian apartment buildings for command centers and for rocket lunchers.
BTW, the most sophisticated air forces in the world often kill civilians instead of Taliban fighters in Afganistan.
I hope we all agree, that no mater how evil Bush is,
US military don't try to kill civilians in Afganistan, but they sometimes kill them by mistake of because of negligence.
July 14, 2007 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mahmoud Abbas
Salam Fayyad
Hanan Ashrawi
July 14, 2007 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, I hear Hezbollah's main command center is under the Knesset.
You know what to do...
July 14, 2007 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Valdron, Be a good sport not a sore loser.
July 14, 2007 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just googled MJ. Everything he writes on pretty much every subject gets picked up everywhere. But over here he has to have a nut like Davai using
MJ's stature to get his nutty stuff published.
I guess this is the downside of the internet. Any idiot can piggyback on people with talent. I'd hate to lose MJ at TPM but no MJ, no Davai! Weird, huh.
Davai is like a bug that gets in David Beckham's ear. Annoying as shit, and in a great athlete's ear, but just a bug.
July 14, 2007 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just amused by the thought of Hezbollah maintaining a Doctor Evil style headquarters filled with cows and milking machines.
"Achmed, we must plan our suicide bombing operation, get over there."
"Mustafa! I cannot, Bessie is about to drop a calf!"
"All right, who is the joker who substituted dried cow patties for plastic explosives. Was it you Hamad?"
"Ayieee, effendi, we are running out of places to put them!"
Yeah, right. This is the rich vein of paranoid idiocy that I usually associate with Clinton murder theories.
July 14, 2007 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also - you didnt correct yourself at all - at least 1000 Lebanese civilians to 43 Israeli civilians! Even the difference between your figure and my figure is 3 times more than the Israeli deaths. And even accepting your figures, you are actually condoning that every Israli civilian death = 20 Lebanese deaths? And you say, "OK,
July 14, 2007 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't know how long this will last but in the current economy pageviews = dollars. Any viewer that you can show, by their commenting, equals solid dollars. If that commenter brings further pageviews and more comments, well... all the better. Doesn't matter what's said.
I don't know TPM's finances but I do know the intertubes. MJ, if you're worried you're not a net positive for TPM... don't. Your threads get more comments than most. Advertisers don't care what those comments say. Not at this point. You're provoking people. And everytime the angry ones get provoked, they drop pennies to Josh.
In the current economic environment, the best thing you could do to help Josh would be to... provoke more. C'mon! Say something that really gets the crazies obsessed with TPM!
thosethingswesay.blogspot.com
July 14, 2007 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is very cool! Thanks, Destor.
July 14, 2007 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
The link you pointed to is talking about
"Israeli attacks on civilian infrastructure"
I'm not arguing this point.
Israel didn't try to kill civilians in Lebanon.
US are not trying to kill civilians in Afganistan.
"you are actually condoning that every Israli civilian death = 20 Lebanese deaths? "
I'm not condining anything.
Facts are facts no matter what are the implications. Facts are not liberal they are not rasists, they are just facts.
I corrected Valdrons original statements about targeting and killing thousandS civilians.
He accepted an error and corrected himself.
So, what's your point? Why so much hatred for setting fact straight?
July 14, 2007 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
See MJ, this guy is your best friend and admirer.
Aren't you proud of yourself?
July 14, 2007 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
uh oh, Abdul-Hass,
Davai has taken what you wrote at face value. What does your secret spy Zionist decoder ring tell you that means?
We've discussed you penchant for self aggrandizing "code" breaking. But I'm wondering, have you ever considered, before exercising your "skills" at reading between the lines, actually reading the lines themselves?
It seems, more often than not, you refuse to acknowledge or respond to what has actually been written and, instead, launch into a screed about what you assume the author meant. In the times you've responded to something I've wrote, you have badly misjudged the the thoughts behind my statements.
You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
July 14, 2007 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Israeli media doesn't seem too interested in Olmert's "invitation" to Assad for some reason. There aren't many articles or even much analysis of the offers. Odd considering that Olmert is basically pirouetting away from his former positions. Could they believe he's blowing smoke or wondering why statements from FM Tzipi Livni directly contradicted him? She may not have received the memo in a timely manner.
Regardless, here's what one Israeli analyst has to say:
"This policy of hot and cold has a double aim - to reduce the chance of war, which is perfectly justified, but also to give the impression of a relaunch of the peace process with Syria, which is all just for show," said Israeli analyst Eyal Zisser.
According to Zisser, a Syria and Lebanon expert at Tel Aviv University, "neither Israel nor Syria is in a position to take essential steps towards making peace."
Zisser believes that Olmert must announce that Israel is ready to cede the Golan, which is "out of the question because his government is so weak and because of the strength of the settlers lobby."
And Syrian President Bashar Al Assad should "make a spectacular gesture towards future normalization, such as coming to Jerusalem," which the expert also rules out."
http://tinyurl.com/2ks2zk
Curiouser and curiouser, the Jewish Press reports:
"Sources in the prime minister’s office noted that the timing of the interview was no accident, and was linked to Rice’s expected visit."
http://tinyurl.com/2fnxpp
Hmmmmm. What happens now that Condi has cancelled her visit? Did Karen Hughes suggest the pro-US venue of al-Arabiya?
For anyone who wishes to read the entire interview, here's the link:
http://www.cjp.org/page.html?ArticleID=149643
Some parts of it are kind of amusing.
July 14, 2007 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, they murder Rabin and commit genocide on Jenin instead.
July 14, 2007 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
ummm...allow me to point out that I don't see any pay per impression ads here. Only pay per click kind/
July 14, 2007 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Davai, allow me to clarify something for you: when you indiscriminately bomb civilian targets not caring who or what you're bombing as Israel did, you INTEND to kill civilians, even if you may not necessarily DESIRE to do so.
Let me make it clearer: if you shoot a gun into a crowd, you INTEND to kill, even if you don't necessarily desire to kill the particular person you shot.
See, there is no big moral difference between targeting and killing civilians, or indiscrminately bombing people without caring whether they;re civilians or not. Israel clearly and without any doubt engaged in indisrciminate bombings on a mass scale in Lebanon.
Oh, incidentally, the old "They use civilians as sheilds so we had to kill all of them indiscriminately" excuse does not wash. In fact that did not happen. Secondly, even if it did happen and civilians were used as human sheilds, then the law of war says that you CANNOT target them if it doing so would result in disproportionate civilian casualties. Finally, note that this is the favorite excuse of the atrocity-monger: Israel firs denied, then justified shelling the Qana refugee camp by claiming that the Hezbollah was hiding among the civilians. Israel terrorists also tried to defend the mass murder of Palestinian civilians a Deir Yassin village by claiming that since "Arab Irregulars" had supposedly been dressed as women, it was therefore necessary to kill the women along with othre civilians.
July 14, 2007 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't have to "try" to kill civilians to be guilty of killing civilians intentionally. If you engage in indiscriminate attacks, you intend to kill your victims even if you have total disregard for their civilian/military status.
July 14, 2007 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
No I am a realist but being neither Arab nor Jew I don't have a ball in this game so I can point out the incontrovertible facts and let the likes of you and Davai and pfakin who endorse ethnic cleansing and mass murder and genocide suffer for it.
July 14, 2007 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
"indiscriminately bomb civilian targets not caring who or what you're bombing as Israel did, you INTEND to kill civilians, even if you may not necessarily DESIRE to do so"
OK, what you are claiming is that Israel didn't have DESIRE to kill civilians but still
indiscriminately bombed civilian targets"
I don't agree with this statement and I don't want to argue this point but at least this is an reasonable argument.
July 14, 2007 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Avi Shlaim explained the mentality of the likes of Sharon who intentionally provoke conflict in order to build their "Greater Israel" here (link)
Because murdering racist expansionists, by definition - want more land and are not satisfied with what they have. Because if Israel ever stops fighting Arabs Israel would probably fall apart from its own internal contradictions (who murdered Rabin? A fellow Zionist) Because the current state of Israel has not yet achieved the full extent of the mythical Eretz Israel (Greater Israel) that Sharon and his ilk desire.
July 14, 2007 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope, sorry, I will decode the Zionist spin and code words and won't allow you and your ilk establish the frame in which issues are discussed.
The current conflict, for example, is not about Israel's "right to exist" no matter how often Israeli propagandists like to frame it that way.
The conflict is about Israel's claimed "right" to expand and steal land from Palestians - in short, Israel's right to exist actually means the right to deny the Palestinians their right to exist.
And a "Jewish" State of Israel = a state in which one particular ethnicity gets to lord over others and maintain its dominance by engaging in ethnic cleansing and mass murder - exactly as Israel does.
July 14, 2007 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The conflict is about Israel's claimed "right" to expand and steal land from Palestians "
I think that the conflict is about Israel's claimed "right" to keep land "stolen" already from Palestians in 1948. It seems to me that you insist that Israel give all that "stolen" land back and Israel refuses to do so.
July 14, 2007 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So why didn't Arafat accepted Barak offer in 2000
and just waited for Israel "to fall apart from its own internal contradictions"
July 14, 2007 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Can we really call Israel our home when we displace other's homes?"
I see you agree with Abdull that Israel has to be destroyed because Jews displaced other's homes in 1948
July 14, 2007 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
deleted
July 14, 2007 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your not discussing issues at all. You're just assuming that people mean something other than the plain meaning of their actual words and then launching into whatever diatribe you want.
If you wish to establish your own frame, that's one thing, but you should try sometime doing it around the actual issues that are in discussion.
Let's try it.
I say, Jews in the Middle East have a legitimate concern that in a one state solution, their basic human rights would not be protected. These rights I speak of are not religious rights, they are rights such as the right to purchase land, the right to vote, and the right for women to have equal access to the same rights and responsibilities as the men around them do. Like wise, Palestinians in the territories have 40 plus years of experience that indicate they cannot be assured of these rights either. I say, because of this, a two state solution is the only way for all the people there to have these basic rights protected.
And, in response to these thoughts, you would say what?
July 14, 2007 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
He would say that you are racist, genozider, apparteider, war criminal, that you stolen land from Palestinians.
July 14, 2007 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're confusing "malice" with "intent".
I don't know what country you live in, but in a Western legal set up (England and America at least) murder is defined as the killing of another human with at least one of four types of "malice". These are
1) Intent to kill
2) Intent to cause grave bodily damage
3) Willful and wanton conduct
4) During the commission of an inherently dangerous felony (like an armed bank robbery)
So, in your example, if you shoot a gun into a crowd, without the intent to kill, you don't have "intent" but, you do have "malice" (#3 -- willful and wanton conduct) and if someone dies, it is a murder.
Now, before you go off half cocked, keep in mind, I'm bringing this up only to clarify your comments on the issue of "intent" in regards to murder. I have not, and have never, in these discussions, defended any particular actions taken by any of the players in the region. There is no "Zionist code" going on here. There is no history being rationalize or challenged. From what I can see, there is plenty of criminal behavior to point to from all sides of this conflict. Over the years there have been thousands of civilian casualties on all sides due to murder of one form or another.
I'm not asking for your response (I have little reason to hope it would be an appropriate one). But I am hoping you can take these words to heart and think about them.
July 14, 2007 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I need to clarify, in the above example, the end should read:
"and, in the absence of an excuse or justification, someone dies, it is a murder."
An example of an excuse would be: the shooter didn't see the crowd (perhaps the shooter was shooting at a deer and the crowd was through the woods, unseen a half a mile away).
An example of a justification would be: The shooter was a policeman who was reasonably taking a clear shot at an armed felon who was in the act of committing an equally dangerous crime.
July 14, 2007 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Show me on thing I have ever written that does any one of the three things you have accused me of.
You are a liar and a bad one at that. If you have any self respect, after failing to quote me, you will apologize.
July 14, 2007 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
At the risk of turning this thread into spaghetti, let me offer a few thoughts, with respect to recklessness and requisite intent.
Supposing that you are a soldier who believes that there is an enemy within the crowd.
Therefore, you simply shoot into the crowd with the intention of killing the hypothetical enemy. By shooting enough bullets into the crowd, you hope to kill whoever in that crowd is your enemy. Essentially, victory through attrition. Kill enough civilians and statistically, your enemy will be among them. The civilians are collateral damage.
How do you characterize this. Is it credible to say that the soldier only has intent to kill the enemy, when in fact he is aiming at and killing civilians as his method of killing the enemy.
What if there is no enemy in the crowd? What if the soldier is mistaken, and the only result of his efforts is dead civilians?
What if the soldier is indifferent to whether there is an enemy in the crowd. Or reckless. Or exercising poor judgement. What if there's only a 50% chance that there is an enemy in the crowd? A 25% chance? A 10% chance? 5%? 1%?
What if there is no crowd visible to the soldier, it is simply a civilian building. The building may be inhabited or it may not. It may have civilians in it, or it may not. It may have an enemy in it. Or it may not. The soldier destroys the building. How do you characterize the soldier's behaviour?
Suppose the soldier has a reasonable expectation that there are both civilians and enemy in the building, and that in attacking the building to kill the enemy he will kill the civilians. How do you characterize the soldier's behaviour? Does proportionality enter into it? Would the soldier's conduct be justified if the ratio of civilians to enemy was 1 in 10, 1 to 1, 2 to 1, 10 to 1? 100 to 1? 1000 to 1?
What if the soldier does not know that there are enemy in the building for certain, but that there is an enemy out there somewhere in an indeterminate state of possibility. The building is full of civilians. By razing the building there is the possibility of killing or injuring an enemy but a guarantee of killing civilians. The soldier goes ahead. Is it a war crime?
July 14, 2007 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
open question for all:
Further up in these postings, Abdull-hass has written the following:
" ...pfakin who endorse ethnic cleansing and mass murder and genocide "
I find this to be a defamatory statement. I am respectfully requesting of everyone who has the time, to please look over my past postings and quote a single thing I have ever written that does any one of the three things that I have been accused of.
I suppose Abdull-hass is on his usual thing about how all Zionists of all shades are guilty of these three things. While that is ridiculous to begin with, I'm not aware of any specific statement that I have made that endorse anything that Israelis have done, period.
I have expressed support of a two state solution. I believe I expressed at some point that it is a mis-characterization to consider the founding of Israel by the international community to be fundamentally a criminal act; the wording wasn't exactly that but it was close.
Neither of these could possibly be construed as an endorsement of ethnic-cleansing, genocide, or mass murder. So, again I ask all the posters here to please respond with quotes of mine that could possibly be the source of Abdull's outrageously false (and rather offensive) claim.
Much obliged,
pkafin
July 15, 2007 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
And I would be objectively right.
July 15, 2007 4:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whilst the land in 1948 was indeed stolen from Palestinians, you'll note that the stealing of land has continued at pace since then by the expansionist racist Zionists
July 15, 2007 4:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bite me you racist Zionist.
July 15, 2007 4:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
The rights of Jews are not superior to anyone else's, and they have absolutely no justification to engage in G-E-N-O-C-I-D-E and ETHNIC CLEANSING in the name of protecing their rights - and that is PRESICELY what they are doing in Israel. You are a pathetic human being for justifying and defending depriving hundreds of thousands of people of their rights whilst whinin about your rights.
Like I said, when your Zionist daddy was murdering the residents of Deir Yassin, raping Palestinian women and throwing hand granades into living roomss, was it because he was oh so concerned about the rights of Jews in the Mideast? OR was it because he wanted to steal land and didn't think that mere Arabs were human beings enough to have any claims to his piece of Greater Israel?
July 15, 2007 4:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
July 15, 2007 5:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
davai - Don't be asinine. You're becoming as much a charicature as abdul-hass. That should be embarassing enough for you to stop the nonsense quips you add to these threads.
You know very well from dozens of my postings that I have NO DESIRE for Israel to be destroyed as a Jewish homeland. All I want is for Israel to get out of the West Bank settlement business so that a viable state for Palestinians can be created and a peace treaty signed.
July 15, 2007 5:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't you start with looking at military tactics of US and Nato in Afganistan.
Use examples of that war. Look at the number of civilians killed and under what conditions.
Set the standards. Then apply them to Israel. Then compare Israel and NATO/US.
Extra homework. US tactics in Iraq.
July 15, 2007 6:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then
- don't use Abdul's language about
" displace other's homes?"
- don't find exuses for Palestinian terrorists who kill Israeli children and so on.
"All I want is for Israel to get out of the West Bank settlement business"
In general it's a good desire, but still please don't use Abdull language to argue your point.
July 15, 2007 6:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you ever said anything positive about Israel then you "endorse ethnic cleansing and mass murder and genocide" according to Abdull.
July 15, 2007 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, not being a quote, is that the apology?
July 15, 2007 7:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jackpot!
You just can't help yourself, can you? Thank you for showing anyone here who actually reads your absurd postings how incapable you are at engaging in any kind of civil discourse about issues pertinent to the peoples of the middle East.
I was actually worried that, after pitching you such a softball, that you'd actually respond in a respectable way and then I'd have to backtrack on the idea that you are incapable of thoughtful interchange.
Instead, you've recycled your shameful lies about war victims, showering disrepect on both yourself and them in the process. I'm a bit surprised that you didn't use capital letters this time. But I guess that's your way of being original.
Anyway, thanx for showing all of us, yet again, your deficiencies. It makes it much easier for readers (new and old) to dismiss, with pity, the rest of the garbage you post here.
My only regret, regarding this illuminating exercise, is that the Palestinian people and their legitimate needs are further disadvantaged by your postings. Perhaps, for their sake, you will try harder to engage in thoughtful discussion when pretending to be supportive of their rights.
What's the chance of that?
July 15, 2007 8:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Valdron,
Those are all insightful questions/scenarios that folks could (and most likely have) debate at great length. They illustrate the maxim that:
The answer to any legal question is, "It depends".
The other maxim that comes to mind is a Charles Dickens quote:
"The law is an ass".
I too share you concern at turning this thread into spaghetti. My posting (a few up the string/noodle) was a digression as it is. So, I'm avoiding the intellectual temptation to address any of the specific things you mentioned. I do, however, thank you for engaging with what I wrote. I'm having some amusing difficulties getting a particular poster, who shall remain nameless, to respond to the actual ideas that are published in these discussions.
It is suffice to say that both the legal and the political issues present in the Middle East are intensely complex; and I, therefore, find all postings based on simple declarative statements attributing entire blame to any specific group(s) to be mostly pointless.
July 15, 2007 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ye, I understand he thinks that way. But what did I actually say that was positive about Israel?
I want some quotes.
July 15, 2007 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
From Human Rights Watch at the time: This report documents serious violations of international humanitarian law (the laws of war) by Israel Defense Forces (IDF) in Lebanon between July 12 and July 27, 2006, as well as the July 30 attack in Qana. During this period, the IDF killed an estimated 400 people, the vast majority of them civilians, and that number climbed to over 500 by the time this report went to print. The Israeli government claims it is taking all possible measures to minimize civilian harm, but the cases documented here reveal a systematic failure by the IDF to distinguish between combatants and civilians.
July 15, 2007 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
How can you be "objectively right" when your literally wrong?
Oh, that's right, words all have different meaning than their actual definition when run through you super secret Zionist decoder ring.
So when I say neither I nor any close relative have ever lived in Israel, you can then say I stole some Palestinian's land.
That ring of yours is a gift from heaven. Without it you'd just be a regular old raving lunatic.
July 15, 2007 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nonsense: If Israel had wanted to conquer its neighbors it could have done so in 1967. It chose not to.
Yes, Israel displaced most of the inhabitants of what is now Israel. The surrounding Arab countries over time forced out their own Jews. The net population exchange was around 200,000 future Palestinians forced out. One way to deal with the right of return is to allow the right of the Jews to return to the surrounding Arab countries to be forfeited for an equal number of rights of return for the Palestinians. So far, in futile efforts to avoid accepting that they have been defeated the Palestinians have sacrificed about three generations.
You need to remember who you are talking to: the grand US of A. The short form of history as taught to most children here is that we were forced from Europe(1) by religious persecution(2) across an ocean(3) and stole a continenet(4) by virtually exterminating the inhabitants(5).
1) We do not claim a right of return.
2) The persecution was on the basis of belief, not of heredity so any time we wanted to recant we could have stayed in Europe. Germany was killing individuals for Jewish ancestry they were unaware of.
3) A dangerous crossing versus across a river
4) versus only part of the land inhabited by the Arabs.
5) Never have either the Muslims or the Arabs been at risk of vanishing as a people. Both the American Indians and the Jews have faced this fate. (This may not be a coincidence: Hitler was a fan of a German action adventure series which dealt with the treatment of Indians in America. It is appalling series: any wrong done to the 'hero' is a great grievance; any wrong done by the 'hero' is a great wrong.)
In short: I don't think the Palestinians can reasonably expect much sympathy from a country with our history. I will accept disagreement from any American who has given his or her personal home back to the Indians.
After WWII some of the Jews reasonably concluded that they could trust no other nation to ensure their survival. What to do? The disaster for the Palestians was that the Jews do have historical connections to biblical Israel and a some zealots had established a toe hold there when a haven was needed.
So: Does the right of the Jews to exist as a people trump the right of the now-Palestinians to return to the land on which they used to live?
On what basis is land claimed? I know of no nation which is not the result of conquest with the possible exception of some of the smaller island still populated by the original inhabitants. If the claim is that we squatted here first you have to decide what the statute of limitations is and why? If it is long, the Jews also have a historical claim.
That said I do not mean to discount the loss of life as Israel was created nor to discount the responsiblity of the world to right the wrongs of the Palestinians to the extent possible without further wronging the Jews.
Stripped to barest essentials the dialogue of the Palestinians with the World goes something like this:
Palestinians to the World: We do not care about the suffering of the Jews -- it has nothing to do with us.
World: Oh.
Palestinians to the World: See how we are suffering. Do something.
World: Oh.
July 15, 2007 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, you claim a right to murder Palestinians in order to establish amd maintain a country where Jews are superior to others, and I'm the one who is "disrespecting" the victims of YOUR atrocities. LOL! Zionists can't help but always monopolize the victim status, can you? Even when it comes to your mass murders, its always about you.
July 15, 2007 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
You sleep with dogs, you get fleas. If someone was here trying to justify and defend Nazism, they would be morally responsible for Nazi atrocities. If you defend Zionism and claim that murdering Palestinians and ethnically cleansing them is justified in order to "protect jewish rights" then you can't complain about being labelled a defending of ethnic cleansing and mass murder.
Look, either fish or clean bait. You can't have it both ways. You don't get to be a Zionist, and yet somehow evade the moral implications of what that implies. Zionism=racism. The worst atrocities imaginable - genocide, rape, ethnic cleansing, torture, exproporation, apartheid, institutionalized racism - are all an inherent and undeniable part of Zionism. Some Zionists, like Benny Morris, have admitted to that and have embraced it openly and have endorsed Israeli crimes against humanity in hte name of creating Israel. At least he's an honest supporter of mass murder. You're not.
July 15, 2007 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...to right the wrongs of the Palestinians to the extent possible without further wronging the Jews."
LOL! You people just can't help yourselves can you? Yes, "righting" Palestinians is only secondary importance to the rights of Jews as you define them, huh? God forbid that the Jews should be inconvenienced by, say, having to recognize the internationally guarnateed and required Right of Return for the Palestinians - no, that would "further wrong the jews" so we can't have that. Oh, no. In the end, the only solution that won't "wrong the jews" any further is for the Palestinians to continue to live in ever-decreased Bantustans, as the likes of you pretend to shed crocodile tears about their fate, and proclaim such noble intentions about their rights .... while you continue to steal their land, steal their air, steal their water, steal their rights EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF EVERY SINGLE DAY. LOL! go on, tell me more bedtime stories. Maybe I won't notice those occupation settlements expanding today . . .
July 15, 2007 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
An apology? LOL! Of course! Why, Zionists have every right to murder Palestinians ... because Muslims don't allow Jews into Mecca, after all. If there was ever any justification of genocide and mass murder, that would be it.
I've got your apology in my pocket. Come and get it.
July 15, 2007 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because even Israeli sources admit that the "generous offer" that you Zionists keep accusing Arafat of "rejecting" was a pathetic joke?
You ZIonists are SUCH generous people!
Here, this is what an Israeli human rights organization says about that "generous offer" :
And the fact that you Zionists still try to spin this "generous offer" only proves what bare-faced liars you are.
July 15, 2007 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes I calim a right for Israel to "murder" people like
Samir Kuntar who "shot the father, Danny, at close range in front of his daughter in the back and drowned him in the sea to ensure he was dead. Next, he smashed the four year old girl's head, Einat, on beach rocks and crushed her skull with the butt of his rifle."
I also claim a right for Israel to "murder" people who trained him financed him, ordered this "liberation"
action.
Because of this you can call me war criminal, genozider, apparteider. I couldn't care less.
July 15, 2007 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um, excuse me, but displacing other's homes is presicely factual:
- Moshe Dayan address to the Technion, Haifa (as quoted in Ha'aretz, April 4, 1969)Here's the list:
1. A’aqer located 5.6 miles SW of Ramiah. Population: 5,000. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Qiryat Eqron built on its 3,305 acres.
2. A'laar located 12.4 miles west of Bethlehem. Population: 40. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Matta' built on its 3,089 acres.
3. Abdah located 31 miles south of Beersheba. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Sedeboqer built on its 133 acres.
4. Abel Al Qamh located 20.5 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Yuval built on its 829 acres.
5. Abu Al Fadl located 7.5 miles NW of Ramlah. Population: 510. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Nahalat Yehuda and Neta'im built on its 718 acres.
6. Abu Shoushah located 5 miles S of Ramiah. Population: 870. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Bet Uziel built on its 832 acres.
7. Abu Shoushah located 3 miles NNW of Tiberius near lake shore. Population: 1,240. Obliterated in 1948, with its 2,250 acres added to the Jewish kibbutz Ginnosar.
8. Abu Shoushah located 15.5 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 720. Obliterated in 1948, with its 2,240 acres added to the Jewish settlement of Mishmar Ha'emeq.
9. Abu Zuraiq located 14 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 550. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,623 acres were stolen.
10. Ajjour located 15.5 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 3,730. Obliterated in 1948 with the Jewish settlements of Agur, Giv'atyesha'yahu and Zafririm established on its 14,544 acres.
11. Ajnajoul located 9.3 miles SE of Ramiah. Population: 140. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,850 acres were stolen.
12. Al Abbasiyah located 15.5 miles NE of Safad on Banyas River near the Syrian border. Population: 830. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,857 acres were stolen.
13. Al Abbasiyah located 8 miles east of Jaffa. Population: 5,650. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Or Yehuda built on its 5,135 acres.
14. Al Ashrafia located SW of Beisan. Population: 230. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,300 acres were stolen.
15. Al Barriah located 4.7 miles SE of Ramiah. Population: 510. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Azarya established on its 708 acres.
16. Al Bashtewah located 3 miles NE of Beisan. Population: 1,560. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Neweur built on its 4,625 acres.
17. Al Bassah located near the Lebanese border and Mediterranean Sea. Population: 4,000. Obliterated with its two churches in 1948; the Jewish settlement of Nahal Bezet was built on its 6,315 acres.
18. Al Birah located north of Beisan near oil pipe line coming from Iraq. Population: 260. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,717 acres were stolen.
19. Al Birwawh located 5.6 miles east of Acre. Population: 1,460. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ahihud built on its 3,346 acres.
20. Al Buraij located 15.5 miles WSW of Jerusalem. Population: 720. Obliterated in 1948; all its 4,770 acres were stolen.
21. Al Buraikah located 24 miles south of Haifa. Population: 290. Obliterated in 1948; all its 725 acres were stolen.
22. Al Burj located 2 miles NW of Ramiah. Population: 480. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,177 acres were stolen.
23. Al Butaimat located 21 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 110. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,080 acres were stolen.
24. Al Buwaiziyah located 18.6 miles NE of Safad. Population: 510. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,655 acres were stolen.
25.Al Dalhamiyah located 9.3 miles SSE of Tiberius on the Jordan River. Population: 390. Obliterated in 1948; all of its 627 acres were incorporated into the Jewish settlement of Ashdot Yaaqov.
26. Al Damoun located 6.8 miles SE of Acre. Population: 1,310. Obliterated in 1948; all its 4,768 acres were stolen.
27. Al Darbashiyyah located 12.4 miles NE of Safad. Population: 310. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gonen built on its 721 acres.
28. Al Dardarah located 7.4 miles SSW of Tulkarem. Population: 145. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz Eyal built on its 930 acres.
29. Al Dawwarh located 15.5 miles NNE of Safad in north Houla plain. Population: 700. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,368 acres were stolen.
30. Al Dawwayimah located 15.5 miles west of Hebron. Population: 3,710. Obliterated in 1948. Many of its people who had taken refuge in one of its mosques were massacred. In 1955, the Jewish settlement of Amazya was built on its 15,146 acres.
31. Al Dhahiriyah Altahta located 2 milesSWof Safad. Population: 350. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,693 acres were stolen.
32. Al Faloujah located 18.6 miles ENE of Gaza. Population: 4,670. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Qiryat Gat and Niir Hen built on its 9,510 acres.
33. Al Fatour located 5.6 miles south of Beisan. Population: 110. Obliterated in 1948, all its 182 acres were stolen.
34. Al Ghabisyyah located 9.6 miles NE of Acre. Population: 690. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Natir Ha Shayyara built on its 1,006 acres
35. Al Ghazzawiyyah located 2.5 miles east of Beisan. Population: 1,020 . Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ma'oz Hayyim built on its 2,800 acres, which extended to the Jordan River.
36. Al Ghubayyah/ Lower located 15 miles SE of Haifa. Obliterated in 1948, with its 1,045 acres added to the Jewish kibbutz Mishmar Ha'emeq.
37. Al Ghubayyah/ Upper located 15.3 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948; all its 516 acres were stolen.
38. Al Hadithah located 6 miles NE of Ramiah. Population: 760. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hadid built on its 1,778 acres.
39. Al Hamidiyah located 2 miles north of Beisan. Population: 220. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hamadya built on its 2,483 acres.
40. Al Hamra'a located 6 miles south of Beisan. Population: 730. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Ti Tat zevi and Sede Eliyyahu built on its 2,264 acres.
41. Al Haram located 11 miles NNE of Jaffa. Population: 520. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Reshef, a suburb of Herzliyyah, built on its 1,008 acres.
42. Al Himmah located on the Yarmuk River, 14.6 miles south of Tiberius. Population: 290. Obliterated in 1951; all its 423 acres were stolen.
43. Al Husseiniyah located 7.5 miles NE of Safad. Population: 170. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hulata built on its 538 acres.
44. Al Jaladiya located 24.8 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 360. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,085 acres were incorporated into the Jewish settlement of Zerahya.
45. Al Jalamah located 6 miles NNW of Tulkarem. Population: 70. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ahiyuv built on its 1,928 acres.
46. Al Jammamah located 24 miles NNW of Beersheba. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ruhama built on its 164 acres.
47. Al Jammaseen- EAST located 4.3 miles north of Jaffa. Population: 730. Obliterated in 1948, with its 90 acres incorporated into the Jewish city of Telaviv.
48. Al Jammaseen- WEST located 4.5 miles north of Jaffa. Population: 1,080. Obliterated in 1948, with its104 acres incorporated into the Jewish city of Telaviv.
49. Al Jaounah located 6 miles east of Safad. Population: 1,150. Obliterated in 1948; all its 210 acres were stolen.
50. Al Jiyyah located 12.5 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 1,230. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Ge'a, Talme Yaff and Shioma built on its 2,127 acres.
51. Al Jourah/Asqalan located 15.5 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 2,420. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Ashqelon and Afridar built on its 3,056 acres.
52. Al Jourah/Jerusalem located 11.8 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 420. Obliterated in 1948, with the two Jewish settlements of Ora and Amminadav built on its 1,040 acres.
53. Al Jusayr located 24.8 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 1,180. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Zavtel, Menuha and Nir Banim built on its 3,090 acres.
54. Al Kabri located 9.3 miles NNE of Acre. Population: 1,520. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz Kabri built in 1949 on its 11,857 acres.
55. Al Kafrayn located 18.6 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 920. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,721 acres were stolen.
56. Al Kawfakhah located 12.4 miles east of Gaza. Population: 500. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Nir Aqiva built on its 2,142 acres.
57. Al Khaesah located 24.8 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 1,840. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Qiryat Shemona built on its 2,820 acres.
58. Al Khalasah located 9.3 miles SW of Beersheeba. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Rivivim built on its 86 acres.
59. Al Khaymah located 12.4 miles SE of Ramlah. Population: 190. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,288 acres were stolen.
60. Al Khayriyyah located 5 miles east of Jaffa. Population: 1,420. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,414 acres were stolen.
61. Al Khisas located 21.7 miles NE of Safad. Population: 530. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hagosherim built on its 1,244 acres.
62. Al Khisas located 13.6 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,567 acres were stolen.
63. Al Khunayzeer located 6 miles SSE of Beisan. Population: 260. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Tirat Zevi built on its 527 acres.
64. Al Kunayshah located 6 miles SSE of Ramlah. Population: 40. Obliterated in 1948; all its 968 acres were stolen.
65. Al Lajjoun located 1 1 miles NW of Jenin. Population: 1,103. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Megiddo built on its 2,125 acres.
66. Al Lidd located 9.3 miles SE of Jaffa. Population: 18,250, of which about 17,000 were evicted from their homes on July 11, 1948. The town was renamed LOD, with most of the Palestinian houses now occupied by Jews.
67. Al Maghaar/Ramlah located 7.4 miles SW of Ramlah. Population: 1,740. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,183 acres were stolen.
68. Al Mahmoudiyyah located 6 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 580. Obliterated in 1948; all its 130 acres were stolen.
69. Al Majdal/Tiberius The village of Mary of Magdalene. Population: Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Midgal built on its 26 acres.
70. Al Majdal/Tulkarem located 2 miles NNW of Tulkarem. Population: 75. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Sed Yzhao built on its 139 acres.
71. Al Malhah located 3 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 1,940. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,425 acres were stolen.
72. Al Malkiyyah located 22.6 miles north of Safad. Population: 360. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz Malkiyyah built in 1949 on its 1,832 acres.
73. Al Mallahah located 15.5 miles NE of Safad. Population: 890. Obliterated in 1948; all its 463 acres were stolen.
74. Al Manarah located 5.6 miles south of Tiberius. Population: 490. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,347 acres were stolen.
75. Al Manshiyyah/Tulkarem located 8 miles NW of Tulkaram. Population:260. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Omez and Hamap’il built on its 4,192 acres.
76. Al Manshiyyah/Acre located 1.6 miles NE of Acre. Population: 810. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,248 acres were stolen.
77. Al Mansi located 18 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 1,200. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,068 acres were stolen.
78. Al Mansourah/Acre located 26.7 miles NE of Acre. Population: 688. Obliterated in 1948; all its 8,503 acres were stolen.
79. Al Mansourah/Ramlah located 5.6 miles south of Ramalah. Population: 90. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Mazkeret Batya built on its 557 acres.
80. Al Masmiiyah Al Sagheerah located 29 miles NE of Gaza. Population:530. Obliterated in 1948; all its1,620 acres were stolen.
81. Al Masmiiyah Al Kubra located 28 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 2,410. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Bebe Reem, Talme Yehi, El, Hszaf and Bene A Yish built on its 5,115 acres.
82. Al Masoudiyyah located 1 mile NE of Tel Aviv. Population: 850. Obliterated in 1948, with its 255 acres incorporated into the Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
83. Al Mazar/Haifa located 12 miles south of Haifa. Population: 210. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,780 acres were stolen.
84. Al Mazar/Jenin located 25 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 270. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,625 acres were stolen.
85. Al Mifrakhirah located NE of Safad 2 miles from the Syrian border. Population:350. Obliterated in 1948; all of its 1,405 acres were stolen.
86. Al Mijaydal located 5 miles of SE of Nazareth. Population: 1,900. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Migdal Ha’emeq built in 1952 on its 2,088 acres.
87. Al Mouwyleh located 7.4 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 360. Obliterated in 1948; all its 836 acres were stolen.
88. Al Mughayyer located 3 miles west of Tulkarem. Population: 75. Obliterated in 1948; all its lands were stolen.
89. Al Muharraqah located 11 miles ESE of Gaza. Population: 580. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Yakini built on its 1,214 acres.
90. Al Mukhayzen located 18.6 miles SSE of Jaffa. Population: 200. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Bet Hilquiyyah built in 1949 on its 3,137 acres.
91. Al Murassas located 6 miles NW of Beisan. Population: 460. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Bet Ha Shitta and Sede’nahum built on its 3,619 acres.
92. Al Muzayri’ah located 10 miles NNE of Ramiah. Population: 1,160. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Mazor built on its 2,345 acres.
93. Al Na’emah located 13 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 1,420. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,185 acres were stolen.
94. Al Nabi Rubeen located 5 miles south of Jaffa. Population: 1,420. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gan Soreq built in 1950 on its 7,750 acres.
95. Al Nabi Youshaa located 19 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 70. Obliterated in 1948; all its 904 acres were stolen.
96. Al Naghnaghiyyah located 15.5 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 693. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,465 acres were stolen.
97. Al Nahr & Al Tal located 8.7 miles NE of Acre. Two villages near each other with a total population of 610. Obliterated in 1948; their combined lands of 1,318 acres were stolen.
98. Al Maqeeb located on the east coast of Lake Tiberius, 5 miles east of the city of Tiberius. Population: 320. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz En Gev built on its 790 acres.
99. Al Qabou located 11 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 260. Obliterated in 1948; all its 952 acres were stolen.
100. Al Qastal located 6 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 90. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kastal built on its 360 acres.
101. Al Oasteenah located 16.7 miles SW of Ramlah. Population: 890. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Arugot built on its 2,061 acres.
102. Al Qibab located 6 miles SE of Ramlah. Population: 1,980. Obliterated in 1949 after many of its people were massacred; the Jewish settlement of Ayyalon was built on its 3,188 acres.
103. Al Qubaybah located 16.7 miles west of Hebron. Population: 1,060. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Lakhish built on its 2,684 acres.
104. Al Qubaybah located 7.4 miles WSW of Ramlah. Population: 1,720. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kefar Ha Nagid built on its 2,978 acres.
105. Al Qudayriyyah located 11 miles south of Safad. Population: 390. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,122 acres were stolen.
106. Al Ramlah located 12.5 miles SE of Jaffa. Population: 16,380. Occupied in 1948. Most of its inhabitants were forcefully evicted, while a few hundred remained. The town, renamed Ramlah, was taken over by Jewish immigrants who stole and occupied the houses of the Palestinians. In time they confiscated an additional 442 acres of surrounding lands and gardens. 107. Alrasalahmar located 7.4miles north of Safad. Population: 645. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kerem Ben Zimra built on its 1,984 acres.
108. Al Ruways located 6 miles SE of Acre. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948; all its 291 acres were stolen.
109. Al Saferiyyah located 6.8 miles SE of Jaffa. Population: 3,070. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Zafriyya built on its 3,187 acres.
110. Al Safsaaf located 3 miles NE of Safad. Population: 910. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Sifsufa built on its 1,848 acres.
111. Al Sakhenah located 6 miles north of Beisan. Population: 530. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gan Ha Shilosha built on its 1,600 acres.
112. Al Salhiyyah located 11.8 miles NE of Safad. Population: 1,520. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,402 acres were stolen.
113. Al Sameriyyah located 5 miles south of Beisan. Population: 250. Obliterated in 1948; all its 968 acres were stolen.
114. Al Samou’l located 3 miles west of Safad. Population: 310. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kefar Shmmay built on its 3,784 acres.
115. Al Samrah located on SE shore of Lake Tiberius, 1.2 miles NE of Samakh. Population: 290. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ha On built on its 3,141 acres.
116. Al Sanbariyyah located 17.4 miles north of Safad. Population: 130. Obliterated in 1948; all its 633 acres were stolen.
117. Al Sarafand located 15.5 miles south of Haifa. Population: 290. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Aerufa built on its 1,352 acres.
118. Al Sawafeer- East located 25.4 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 960. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of En Zurim and Merkaz Shipira built on its 3,458 acres.
119. Al Sawafeer-West located 24.8 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 1,030. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Mass’out Yizhaq built on its 1,881 acres.
120. Al Sawafeer- North located 1.2 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 680. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Defar Warburg built on its 1,465 acres.
121. Al Shajarah located 23 miles west of Tiberius. Population: 770. Obliterated in 1948; all its 939 acres were stolen.
122. Al Sheikh Helou located 23.6 miles south of Haifa. Population: 820. Obliterated in 1948; all its lands of 368 acres were stolen.
123. Al Sheikh Mu’aness located 3 miles NNE of Jaffa. Population: 1,930. Obliterated in 1948, all its 1,402 acres were incorporated into the Jewish city of Telaviv.
124. Al Shounah located 6 miles south of Safad. Population: 170. Obliterated in 1948; all its 915 acres were stolen.
125. Al Sindiyyanah located 21.7 miles south of Haifa. Population: 1,250. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish reservation of Ya’ar Allona built in 1949 on its 3,543 acres.
126. Al Tabghah located 8 miles north of Tiberius, on lake Tiberius. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Tabghah built on its 1,347 acres.
127. Al Tantorah located 18.6 miles south of Haifa. Population: 1,490. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Dor and kibbutz Nahsholim built on its 2,880 acres.
128. Al Tirah-Beisan located 18.6 miles NNW of Beisan. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gazit built on its 2,552 acres.
129. Al Ubaydiyyah located on Jordan River near Samakh, south of the lake. Population: 870. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,293 acres were stolen.
130. Al ulmaniyyah located 14.3 miles NE of Safad. Population: 260. Obliterated in 1948; all its 292 acres were stolen.
131. Al Walajah located 6 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 1,656. Obliterated in 1948; all its 4,402 acres were stolen.
132. Al Zanghariyyah located 3 miles east of Safad. Population: 840. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Elifeletit built on its 6,980 acres.
133. Al Zawiyyah located 12.4 miles NE of Safad. Population: 760. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ne’ot Mordekhay built on its 989 acres.
134. Al Zeeb located 9.3 miles north of Acre. Population: 1,910. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gersher Ha Ziw built in 1949 on its 3,152 acres.
135. Al Zouq Al Foquani located 20.5 miles north of Safad, near Lebanese border. Population 150. Obliterated in 1958, with the Jewish settlement of Mayan Baruch built on its 458 acres.
136. Al Zouq Al Tahtani located 18.6 miles north of Safad. Population: 1,050. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Bet Hillel built on its 2,908 acres.
137. Al-Na’ani located 5 miles SSW of Ramlah. Population: 1,470. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ramot Me’ir built on its 2.572 acres.
138. Al-Taynah located 24.8 miles south of Jaffa. Population: 750. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,509 acres were stolen.
139. Alma located 6 miles north of Safad. Population: 950. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Alma built on its 4,937 acres.
140. Ammouqah located 3.7 miles NE of Safad. Population: 140. Obliterated in 1948; all its 644 acres were stolen.
141. Annabah located 18.6 miles SE of Jaffa. Population: 1,420. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kefar Shemu’el built on its 3,209 acres.
142. Aqour located 12 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 40. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,381 acres were stolen.
143. Arab Abou Kishk located 13 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 1,900. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Shmon Nave Hadar built on its 4,343 acres.
144. Arab Al Aridah located 5.6 miles SE of Beisan. Population: 650. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,130 acres were stolen.
145. Arab Al Aridah located 5.6 miles SSE of Beisan. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948, with the settlement of Sedeeliyyahu built on its 570 acres.
146. Arab Al Bawati located in the plains of Beisan, south of Lake Tiberius. Population: 520. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,309 acres were stolen.
147. Arab Al Nufay’at located 31 miles south of Haifa. Population: 820. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Giv’at Olga built on its 313 acres.
148. Arab Al Sammakiyah located 8.7 miles NE of Tiberius. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,632 acres were stolen.
149. Arab Alsawahimah located 10 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 800. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ramat Hayyal built on its 1,486 acres.
150. Arab Al Shmalinah located 14.9 miles SE of Safad. Population: 650. Obliterated in 1950; all its 4,173 acres, which were in the demilitarized zone, were stolen.
151. Arab Al Zubayd located 15 miles NE of Safad. Population: 275. Obliterated in 1948; all its lands of 380 acres were stolen.
152. Artouf located 21.6 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 350. Obliterated in 1948, all its 101 acres were stolen.
153. Asdoud located 25 miles NNE of Gaza. Population: 4,630. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish town and port of Ashdod built on its 11,486 acres.
154. Aslouj located 18.6 miles south of Beersheba. Population: 500, semi-nomadic, surrounding lands used for barley growing. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Mash’abbe Sade and Rvivim built on its stolen lands.
155. Awjaal Hafir located 46 miles SW of Beersheba. Population: 255. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Qezi’ot built in 1953 on its stolen lands.
156. Azeeziya located 19 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 390. Obliterated in 1948; all its 102 acres were stolen.
157. Baisamoun located NE of Safad near the shores of old lake Houlah. Population:50. Obliterated in 1948; all its 526 acres were stolen.
158. Balad Al Shiekh located 3 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 4,120. Obliterated in 1948, all its 2,308 acres were stolen and divided between Haifa and the Jewish settlement of Nesher.
159. Barbarah located 13 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 2,410. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Mayqiim built on its 3,361 acres.
160. Barfieliah located 4.3 miles SE of Ramiah. Population: 730. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,784 acres were stolen.
161. Barquousia located 15.5 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948, all its 804 acres were stolen.
162. Bashit located 11 miles SW of Ramiah. Population: 1,620. Obliterated in 1948; Benaya,Aseret and other Jewish settlements were built on its 4,633 acres.
163. Beer Al Sab’a occupied by the Jews on October 21, 1948; all 5,570 Palestinians were evicted, their homes occupied and their town renamed Be’er Shava.
164. Beer Mou’in located 2 miles ESE of Ramlah. Population: 510. Obliterated in 1948; all 2,330 acres were stolen.
165. Beer Salem located 2.5 miles west of Ramiah. Population: 410. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Nes Ziyyonabuilt on its 850 acres.
166. Beisan town located 21.7 miles south of lake Tiberius. Population in 1948 was 5,180 Palestinians and 20 Jews. On December 5, 1948 the town was occupied by Jewish forces and all Palestinians were evicted and the town partially blown up. It was rebuilt as the Jewish city of Bet She’an.
167 .Beit Affah located 18.6 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 700. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Yad Natan built on its 1,452 acres.
168. Beit Dajan located 6 miles SE of Jaffa. Population: 3,840. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Bet Dajan built on its 4,317 acres.
169. Beit Dara located 22.3 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 2,750. Obliterated in 1948, with many of its Palestinian inhabitants massacred. Jewish settlements of Givati and Orot were built on its 4,089 acres.
170. Beit Itab located 9.3 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 540. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Nesharim and Bar Giyyoria built on its 2,189 acres.
171. Beit Jeez located 9.3 miles SSE of Ramiah. Population: 550. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Harel built on its 2,089 acres.
172. Beit Jeraja located 9.3 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 940. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,088 acres were stolen.
173. Beit Jibreen located 12.4 miles WNW of Jerusalem. Population: 26. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,107 acres were stolen.
174. Beit Jibreen located 16 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 2,340. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Bet Guvrin built on its 14,046 acres.
175. Beit Mahsir located 12.4 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 2,400. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Betme’ir built on its 4,067 acres.
176. Beit Nabala located 9.3 miles NE of Ramlah. Population: 2,310. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,763 acres were stolen.
177. Beit Naqouba located 8 miles NW of Jerusalem. Population: 240. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Beit Duqqu built on its 506 acres.
178. Beit Nattief located 15.5 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 2,150. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Halamed, Zanoah and Avi’ezer built on its 11,147 acres.
179. Beit Nouba located 14.3 miles SE of Ramlah. Population: 1,350. Occupied and obliterated in 1948, with Jewish army camps built on its 2,850 acres.
180. Beit Shannah located 6 miles SE of Ramiah. Population: 210. Obliterated in 1948; all its 904 acres were stolen..
181. Beitsouseen located 16 miles West of Jerusalem. Population: 210. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Aor’a built on its 1,620 acres.
182. Beit Timah located 14.3 miles NE of Gaza, near Hulagat oil field. Population:1,060. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,758 acres were stolen.
183. Beit Umm Al Mees located 6 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 70. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ramat Razi’el built on its 253 acres.
184. Bilin located 30.4 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 180. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,875 acres were stolen.
185. Biriah located just north of Safad. Population: 240. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,370 acres were stolen.
186. Bourair located 13 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 2,749. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Helez, Zohar Beror Hayil and Telamim built on its 11,250 acres.
187. Burquah located 30 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 890. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ganyavne built on its 1,253 acres.
188. Byar Adas located 9.3 miles NE of Jaffa. Obliterated in 1948, after most of its 300 villagers were massacred. The Jewish settlement of Gan Hayyim was built on its 1,343 acres.
189. Daliat Al Rawha’a located 15.5 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 280. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,502 acres were stolen.
190. Dallatan located 5 miles north of Safad. Population: 360. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Dalton built on its 2,269 acres.
191. Dannah located 7.4 miles NNW of Beisan. Population: 190. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,654 acres were stolen.
192. Danyal located 3.7 miles east of Ramiah. Population: 41 0. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Defar Daniyyel built on its 702 acres.
193. Dar Al Sheikh located 11 miles WSW of Jerusalem. Population: 220. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Nes Harim built on its 1,695 acres.
194. Darad Al Ghannamah located 5.6 miles NE of Safad. Population: 360. Obliterated in 1951, with the Jewish settlement of Ayyelet Ha Shahar built on its 950 acres.
195. Dayshoum located 8.7 miles north of Safad. Population: 590. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Dishon built on its 5,761 acres.
196. Deiraban located 12.4 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 2,100. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Mahseya built in 1950 on its 5,687 acres.
197. Deir Abou Salamah located 3 miles east of Lod. Population: 60.Obliterated in 1948; all its 299 acres were stolen.
198. Deir Al Dubban located 15.5 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 730. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Luzit built in 1955 on its 1,946 acres.
199. Deir Al Hawa located 7.4 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 60. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Nes Harim built in 1950 on its 1,477 acres.
200. Deir Al Oassi located 16.7 miles NE of Acre. Population: 2,300. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Elqosh built on its 8,411 acres.
201. Deir Arm located 11 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 50. Also had an agricultural school for Palestinian orphans. Obliterated in 1948; all its 768 acres were stolen.
202. Deir Ayhoub located 6 miles SE of Ramiah. Population: 320. Population was removed in 1949, with the village obliterated and the Jewish settlement of Shaar Hagay built on its 1,507 acres.
203. Deir Muhaysen located 8 miles SE of Ramlah. Population: 460. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Beqoa built on its 2,502 acres.
204. Deir Nakhaas located 24.8 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 600. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Nahosha built in 1955 on its 3,619 acres.
205. Deir Sunayd located 7.4 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 730. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Yad Modekhay and Erez built on its 1,430 acres.
206. Deir Tarif located 6 miles NE of Ramlah. Population: 1,750. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Bet A’rif and Kefar Truman built on its 2,189 acres.
207. Deir Yassin located 2.5 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 600, over 250 of whom, mainly old men, women and children were massacred in cold blood on April 9-10, 1948 by Zionist terrorists of the Irgun and the Stern Gang. The Palestinian village was obliterated and the Jewish settlement of Gibat Shaul was built on its 714 acres.
208. Dirmah located 5 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 520. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Erez built on its 2,123 acres.
209. East Batan I located 33.5 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 650. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Orot built on its 1,441 acres.
210. Ein Al Zytoun located 2.5 miles north of Safad. Population: 820. Obliterated on May 6,1948, with many of its Palestinian inhabitants massacred. The Jewish settlement of En Zetim was built on its 275 acres.
211. Ein Ghazal located 15.5 miles south of Haifa. Population: 3,500. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of En Ayyala built on its 4,500 acres.
216. Ein Hasab located 22.3 miles south of Dead Sea. Population: 145. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of En Hazeva built on its stolen lands.
217. Ein Hawd located 10.5 miles south of Haifa. Population: 650. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of En Hod and Nir Ezyon built on its 3,151 acres.
218. Ein Kaarem located 5 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 3,900. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish hospital complex Zur Hadassa built on its 3,757 acres.
219. Endor located 13.6 miles SE of Nazareth. Population: 620. Obliterated on December 31, 1949, with the Jewish settlement of Endor built on its 3,111 acres.
220. Eshoa located 16.7 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 620. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Hartouf and Eshta’ol built on its 1,381 acres.
221. Fajjah located 9.3 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 1,200. Obliterated in 1948, with eastern Jewish suburb of Pitah Tikwa built on its stolen land.
222. Farah located 8 miles NW of Safad. Population: 320. Obliterated in 1948; all its 182 acres were stolen.
223. Fardeesya located 25 miles NNE of Jaffa. Population: 20. Obliterated in 1948; all its 273 acres were stolen.
224. Farradiyyah located 6 miles SW of Safad. Population: 670 of whom 100 Palestinians were massacred when the Jews occupied it in 1948. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Parod built on its 4,687 acres.
225. Farwanah located 6 miles south of Beisan. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Rewaya, Sede Terumot and Rehov built on its 1,249 acres.
226. Fer’em located 4.3 miles NE of Safad. Population: 740. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hazor Ha Gelitit built on its 522 acres.
227. Futays located 10.5 miles WNW of Beersheba. Population: 150. Obliterated in 1948 with the Jewish settlement of Pattish built on its 253 acres.
228. Ghabat Al Ababishah located 9.3 miles NNE of Jaffa. Population:150. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Kefar Shemaryahu and Rishpon built on its 611 acres.
229. Ghabat Kufr Sour located 10.5 miles WSW of Tulkarem. Population: 740. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Bet Yeshoshua, Tel Yizhao and Kefar Netter built on its 4,917 acres.
230. Ghabbayiyah located 10.5 miles NW of Safad. Population: 60. Obliterated in 1948; all its 733 acres were stolen.
231. Ghurabah located 16 miles NE of Safad. Population: 200. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz Gonen built on its 738 acres.
232. Hadathah located 3 miles NW of Lake Tiberius. Population: 520. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,585 acres were stolen.
233. Haifa located on the Mediterranean Sea. Population: 70,000 Palestinians, most of whom were evicted from their homes in 1948 after threats to kill them. All their houses and lands were subsequently stolen by Jews who settled in them.
234. Hamamah located 19 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 5,010. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Nizzanim and Bet Ezra built on its 10,342 acres.
235. Hatta located 18.6 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 970. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Rewaha built on its 1,326 acres.
236. Hirbia located 6 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 2,240. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Karmiyya, Yad Mordekhsy, and Zi built on its 5,578 acres.
237. Hittin located 6.5 miles west of Tiberius. Population: 1,190. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kefarzetim built on its 5,691 acres.
238. Hoj located 11 miles east of Gaza. Population: 81 0. Obliterated in 1948 with the Jewish settlements of Dorot and Gevim built on its 5,497 acres.
239. Hoshah located 8.7 miles east of Haifa. Population: 400. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,250 acres were stolen.
240. Houlayqat located 15.5 miles NE of Gaza, near oil field. Population:420. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Helez built on its 1,766 acres.
241. Houneen located 26 miles north of Safad. Population: 1,620. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,434 acres were stolen.
242. Ibdes located 26.7 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 540. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,148 acres were stolen.
243. Idhnibbah located 31 miles south of Jaffa. Population: 490. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Haruvit built on its 1,778 acres.
244. Ijleel North & South located 8.7 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 470. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gelilot built on its 4,413 acres. It is now incorporated as a suburb of Herzliyya.
245. Ijzem located 17.4 miles south of Haifa. Population: 2,970. Obliterated in 1948 with the Jewish settlement of Kerem Maharal built on its 11,726 acres of stolen land.
246. Ikret located NE of Acre near the Lebanese border. Population of 500 Palestinians, all Maronite Christians, who were forced to evacuate their village in 1948. All the village buildings were blown up on Christmas day, 1952, and all its 6,181 acres were stolen.
247. Imwas located 17.4 miles WSW of Jerusalem. Population: 1,450. Obliterated in 1967. All its 1,288 acres were stolen and its people driven away.
248. Iraq Al Manshiyyah located 30.4 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 2,800. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Gat, Qiryat Gat, Sede Moshhe and Shahar built on its 3,300 acres.
249. Iraq Souweydan located 21.7 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 660. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Nogan, Sede Yo’av and Ozem built on its 1,885 acres.
250. Isleen located 17.4 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 260. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Eshta’ol built on its 540 acres.
251. Jaba’a located 13 miles south of Haifa. Population: 1,140. The village was bombarded from air on July 7, 1948, and later completely obliterated, with the Jewish settlements of Geva Karmel and Zeruea built on its 1,753 acres.
252. Jabboul located 6 miles north of Beisan. Population: 250. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Bet yosef built on its 3,782 acres.
253. Jahoula located 8.7 miles NE of Safad. Population: 357. Obliterated in 1948; all its 967 acres were stolen.
254. Jamzou located 2.5 miles east of Lyddah (Lid). Population: 1,510. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gimzo built on its 2,420 acres.
255. Jarash located 17.4 miles WSW of Jerusalem. Population: 190. Obliterated in 1948; all its 880 acres were stolen.
256. Jelyah located 3 miles south of Ramlah. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,587 acres were stolen.
257. Jia’arah located 23 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 70 Palestinians who were forced to leave in 1945. The village was obliterated and its stolen lands were added to the Jewish kibbutz En Hashofet.
258. Jiddeen located 12.5 miles NE of Acre. Population: 1,500. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,897 acres were stolen.
259. Jisr Al Majame located 9.3 miles NE of Beisan. Population: 250. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gesher built on its 125 acres.
260. Joles located 18 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 1,030. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hodiyya built on its 3,396 acres.
261. Jub youssef located 2.5 miles SE of Safad. Population: 170. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,831 acres were stolen. In its place today are the pumping installations of the Jordan-Negev pipeline.
262. Jurayshah located 3 miles NNE of Jaffa. Population: 195. Obliterated in 1948; all its 139 acres were incorporated into the Jewish city of Telaviv.
263. Kafar Aanah located 6.8 miles east of Jaffa. Population: 2,800. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Qiryat Ono and Yehuda built on its 4,338 acres.
264. Kafarh located 4.3 miles north of Beisan. Population: 430. Obliterated in 1948; all its lands of 2,293 acres were stolen.
265. Karaarah located 20.5 miles south of Haifa. Population: 120. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,088 acres were stolen.
266. Karad Al Baqqarah located 6 miles NE of Safad, in the demilitarized zone with Syria. Population: 350. Obliterated in 1951; all its 535 acres were stolen.
267. Kartia located 16.7 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 1,370. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Azem, Nehora and Oomemiyyut built on its 3,427 acres.
268. Kasla located 10 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 280. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kesalon built on its 2,001 acres.
269. Kawkaba located 18.6 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 680. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kokhav Mikhael Sobell built on its 2,136 acres.
270. Kawkabal Hawa located 9.3 miles north of Beisan. Population: 300. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,487 acres were stolen.
271. Kefar Biri’m located 10.5 miles NW of Safad. Population: 1,000, all Catholic (Maronite) Christians. Obliterated in 1953, with the Jewish kibbutz Bar’am built on its 3,063 acres.
272. Kfar Inan located 9.3 miles SW of Safad. Population: 360 Palestinians, half of whom were pushed into the Mst Bank on February 4,1949. The rest remained near the village and petitioned the Israeli Government to return to their village. In answer to their petition, the Israeli army blew up all the houses and obliterated the village.
273. Kfar Lam located 16 miles south of Haifa. Population: 240. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Habonim built on its 1,710 acres.
274. Kfar Sabt located 13 miles SW of Tiberius. Population: 480. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,185 acres were stolen.
275. Kharroubah located 1.2 miles NE of Safad. Population: 170. Obliterated in 1948; all its 844 acres were stolen.
276. Khirbat Abdu Zenah located on Jordan River where it joins Lake Tiberius, SE of Safad. Population: 650. Obliterated in 1948; all its 4,173 acres were stolen.
277. Khirbat Al Bouwayrah located 6 miles SE of Ramlah. Population: 190. Obliterated in 1948; all its 288 acres were stolen.
278. Khirbat Al Damoun located 8 miles SSE of Haifa. Population: 340. Obliterated in 1948, all its 699 acres were stolen.
279. Khirbat Al Harrawi located 12.4 miles north of Safad. Population:174. Obliterated in 1948, with its 932 acres added to the Jewish settlement of Ramot Naftali.
280. Khirbat Al Loz located 8.68 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 450. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,126 acres were stolen.
281. Khirbat Al Omour located 10 miles west of Jerusalem. Population:270. Obliterated in 1948; all its 969 acres were stolen.
282. Khirbat Al Quizazah located 1.2 miles east of Hadera. Population:1,000. Obliterated in 1948, with its 3,709 acres incorporated into the Jewish settlement of Hadera.
283. Khirbatal Wa’arah Al Soudah located 3 miles NW of Tiberius. Population: 1,870. Obliterated in 1948, all its 1,759 acres were stolen.
284. Khirbat Beit Far located 9.3 miles SE of Ramlah. Population: 300. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Zelafon built on its 1,401 acres.
285. Khirbat Khuraysh located 15.5 miles ENE of Jaffa. Population: 70.Obliterated in 1949, with the Jewish settlement of Yarhiv built on its 914 acres.
286. Khirbat Lidd located 21.7 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 640. Obliterated in 1948; all its 893 acres were stolen.
287. Khirbat Sheikha Mohmed located 24.8 miles NNE of Jaffa. Population:150. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements Hogla, Elyashiv, Kefar Vitkin and Haroe built around its 164 acres.
288. Khirbat Umm Al Bourj located 12.5 miles NW of Hebron. Population:250. Obliterated in 1967; all its 3,271 acres were stolen.
289. Khirbat Zakariya located 15.5 miles SE of Jaffa. Population: 200. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,135 acres were stolen.
290. Khiyam Al Waleed located 15.5 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 280. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Lahovot Habashan built on its 1,079 acres.
291. Khuldah located 24 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 290. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz Even Yizhao built on its 589 acres.
292. Khuldah located 9.3 miles south of Ramiah. Population: 280. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Tel Shahr built on its 2,365 acres.
293. Ki Dna located 18.6 miles WNW of Hebron. Population: 450. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gal’on built on its 3,931 acres.
294. Kifar Saba located 15.5 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 1,270. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,422 acres were stolen.
295. Kouwaykat located 9.3 miles ENE of Acre. Population: 1,050. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Nahal Bet Ha Emeq built on its 1,181 acres.
296. Kurnob located 25 miles south of Beersheba. Population: 155. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Dimona built on its stolen lands.
297. Lazzazah located in extreme north of Palestine on Hesbani River. Population: 230. Obliterated in 1948; all its 161 acres were stolen.
298. Lifta located 0.6 miles NW of Jerusalem. Population: 2,550. Obliterated in 1948, with its 1,997 acres now a suburb of West Jerusalem.
299. Loni located 3 miles NW of Jerusalem. Population: 900. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,013 acres were stolen.
300. Louba located 5.6 miles west of Tiberius. Population: 2,350. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Lavi built on its 9,907 acres.
301. Ma’aloul located 13.6 miles SW of Tiberius. Population: 480. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,582 acres were stolen.
302. Ma’aloul located 7 miles west of Nazareth. Population: 690. Obliterated in 1948, with its 523 acres added to the Jewish settlement of Nahalal.
303. Majdal Al Sadeq located 8 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 2,500. Obliterated in 1948; its 6,658 acres became a suburb of the Jewish settlement of Petah Tikwa.
304. Majidal Asqalan located 15.5 miles NNE of Gaza. Population: 13,000 Palestinians who were all evicted from their homes which were given to Jewish immigrants in 1948. The town was renamed Ashqelon.
305. Mansourat Al Khsyt located 6 miles east of Safad. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz Kefar Ha Nasi built on its 1,684 acres.
306. Marous located 5.6 miles NE of Safad. Obliterated in 1948 after its population of 80 Palestinians were evicted from their homes, and their lands stolen.
307. Maseel Al Jizi located 5 miles SE of Beisan. Population: 100. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,468 acres were stolen.
308. Mayroun located 6 miles SW of Safad. Population: 290. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Meron built on its 238 acres.
309. Me’ar located 6 miles SE of Acre. Population: 770. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,468 acres were stolen.
310. Miskha located 9.3 miles SW of Tulkarem. Population: 880. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ramat Ha Kosvesh built on its 2,019 acres.
311. Mughalles located 18.6 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 540. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gefen built on its 2,864 acres.
312. Mughr Al Khyat located 9.3 miles NE of Safad. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,561 acres were stolen.
313. Na’alia located 12.4 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 1,310. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,308 acres were stolen.
314. Najd located 10.5 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 620. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Dorot built on its 3,394 acres.
315. Naser Al Deen located 4.3 miles SW of Tiberius. Population: 110. On the night of 13 April 1948, the Irgun sent its terrorists dressed as Palestinians, who were welcomed into the village. As soon as they were in, they opened fire and massacred 70 innocent men, women and children; the rest escaped. The village was then obliterated and its 1,347 acres stolen.
316. Natafi located 8 miles NW of Jerusalem. Population:40.Obliterated in 1948; all its 373 acres were stolen.
317. Nimreen located 11.8 miles west of Tiberius. Population: 320. Obliterated in 1948, all its 2,199 acres were stolen.
318. Nores located 12.4 miles NE of Jenin. Population: 570. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,564 acres were stolen.
319. Olam located 16 miles SW of Tiberius. Population: 720. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,750 acres were stolen.
320. Qabb’ah located 7.4 miles NE of Safad. Population: 460. Obliterated in 1948; all its 3,454 acres were stolen.
321. Qaddita located 21 miles north of Safad. Population: 390. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,535 acres were stolen.
322. Qaddita located 4.3 miles NW of Safad. Population: 240. Obliterated in 1948; all its 610 acres were stolen.
323. Qanneer located 25 miles SSE of Haifa. Population: 750. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Regavim built on its 2,820 acres.
324. Qaqoun located 4.3 miles NW of Tulkarem. Population: 1,970. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Gan Yoshiyyah and Ha’ogen built on its 10,442 acres.
325. Qatarah located 9.3 miles SWof Ramlah. Population: 1,210. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gedera built on its 1,325 acres.
326. Qatiyyah located 18 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 940. Obliterated in 1948; its 1,298 acres were stolen and added to the Jewish settlement of Bet Hillel.
327. Qazazah located 11 miles south of Ramiah. Population: 940. Obliterated in 1947 after many of its Palestinian inhabitants were massacred, and all of its 4,707 acres stolen.
328. Qeerah Wa Qamoun located 14.6 miles SW of Haifa. Population: 250. Obliterated in 1948; all of its lands were stolen.
329. Qisariyah located 26 miles SSW of Haifa, on the sea shore. Population: 960. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Or’aqiva built on its 7,697 acres.
330. Qoulah located 18.6 miles east of Jaffa. Population: 1,010. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,026 acres were stolen.
331. Qoumiah located 6 miles WNW of Beisan. Population: 440. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of En Hardo and Tel Yosef built on its 1,225 acres.
332. R’ana located 14.3 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 190. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,731 acres were stolen.
333. Rantiyyah located 9.3 miles east of Jaffa. Population: 590. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Rinnatya built on its 1,097 acres.
334. Ras Abou Ammar located 11.8 miles SW of Jerusalem. Population: 620. Obliterated in 1948; all it 2,086 acres were stolen.
335. Sa’as’a located 9.3 miles NW of Safad. Population: 1,130. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Sasa built on its 3,699 acres.
336. Sabalan located 14.9 miles NW of Safad. Population: 70. Obliterated in 1948; all its 448 acres were stolen.
337. Sabbareen located 21.7 miles south of Haifa. Population: 1,700. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ammiqam built on its 5,375 acres.
338. Saffouriyah located 4.3 miles north of Nazareth. Population: 4,330. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Zippori built on its 13,845 acres.
339. Salahah located 10.5 miles NNW of Safad, near Lebanese border. Population: 1,070. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Yir’on built on its 2,934 acres.
340. Salamah located 3 miles east of Jaffa. Population: 6,670. Obliterated in 1948; its 1,696 acres became a suburb of Tel Aviv known as Kefar Shaem.
341. Salbeet located 6 miles SE of Ramlah. Population: 510. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Sha’alvim built in 1951 on its 1,528 acres.
342. Samakh located at southern tip of Lake Tiberius. Population: 3,460. Obliterated in 1948, with a Jewish holiday village built on its 4,653 acres.
343. Saqiyah located 12.4 miles ESE of Jaffa. Population: 1,100. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Tirat Yehuda built on its 1,355 acres.
344. Sara’ah located 19 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 340. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Zor’a and Tarum built on its 1,240 acres.
345. Sarafand Al Amaar located 2.5 miles west of Lod. Population: 1,950. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Nirzevi built on its 3,317 acres.
346. Sarafand Al Kharab located 3.7 miles west of Ramlah. Population: 840. Obliterated in 1948; its 1,326 acres were divided among the Jewish settlements of Be’er Yaaqyv, Bet Hanan, and Rishon Le Ziyyon.
347. Saris located 9.3 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 560. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Shoresh built on its 2,675 acres.
348. Saronah located 3 miles NE of Jaffa. Population: 800. Obliterated in 1948, with its 238 acres incorporated into the Jewish city of Tel Aviv.
349. Sataf located 7.4 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 450. Obliterated in 1948; all its 944 acres were stolen.
350. Saydoun located 3 miles SSE of Ramlah. Population: 210. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,026 acres were stolen.
351. Shahmah located 11 miles SW of Ramiah. Population: 280. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Qidron built on its 1,613 acres.
352. Sheikh Daoud located 9.3 miles NE of Acre. Population: 300. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,165 acres were stolen.
353. Shielta located 9.3 miles east of Ramiah. Population: 100. Obliterated i n 1948, with the settlement of Shilat established on its stolen lands of 1,345 acres.
354. Shokah Al Tahita located 21.7 miles NNE of Safad, near Dan. Population:200. Obliterated in 1948; all its 533 acres were stolen.
355. Simsem located 11.8 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 1,290. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gevar’am built on its 3,449 acres.
356. Sireen located 7.4 miles north of Beisan. Population: 810. Obliterated in 1948; all its 7,114 acres were stolen.
357. Souba located 6 miles west of Jerusalem. Population: 620. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Aova built on its 1,026 acres.
358. Sufla located 14.9 miles WSW of Jerusalem. Population: 60. Obliterated in 1948; all its 515 acres were stolen.
359. Suhmata located 10.5 miles NE of Acre. Population: 1,130. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hosen built in 1949 on its 4,230 acres.
360. Sumayriyyah located 2.5 miles north of Acre. Population: 760. Obliterated in 1948; all its 2,129 acres were stolen.
361. Summail located 30.4 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 950. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Qedma and Nahala built on its 4,826 acres.
362. Tabariah. The city of Tiberius. In 1948 it had a population of 5,744 Palestinians and 5,566 Jews. All Palestinians were expelled from their homes, which were then occupied by Jewish immigrants, and all the stolen lands of the Palestinians were made into the Jewish city of Teverya.
363. Tabou’n located 11 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 239. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Oiryat Tiv’on built on its 18 acres.
364. Tarbikha located 2 miles north of Acre. Population , 900. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Shamerat built on its 3,657 acres.
365. Taytaba located 6 miles north of Safad. Population: 530. Obliterated in 1948, all its 2,113 acres were stolen.
366. Tel Al Safi located 21.7 miles WSW of Jerusalem. Population: 1,290. Obliterated in 1948; all its 6,625 acres were stolen.
367. Tel Al Shoak located 2 miles west of Beisan. Population: 120. Obliterated in 1948; all its 255 acres were stolen.
368. Tel Al Turmus located 21.7 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 760. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Timmorim built on its 2,877 acres.
369. Tirat Al Louz located 6 miles south of Haifa. Population: 5,270. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Tirat Karmel built on its 10,763 acres.
370. Tirat Dandan located 11.8 miles ENE of Jaffa. Population: 1,290. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Tirat Yehuda built on its 1,739 acres.
371. Tubsur located 12.4 miles SW of Tulkarem. Population: 125. Obliterated in 1948; its 825 acres were stolen and added to the Jewish settlement of Raananna.
372. Tulayl located 10.5 miles NE of Safad. Population: 170. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Yesud and Ha-Ma’ala built on its 1,005 acres.
373. Um Kalkhah located 2 miles north of Acre. Population: 800. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Ben Ammi built on its 203 acres.
374. Umm Ajrah located 15.5 miles south of Beisan. Population: 260. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,328 acres were stolen.
375. Um Al Amad located 11 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 265. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Allone’abba built on its 2,281 acres.
376. Umm Al Shouf located 23 miles SSE of Haifa. Population: 480. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,857 acres were stolen.
377. Umm Al Zaynat located 16.7 miles SE of Haifa. Population: 1,470. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Elyaqim built on its 5,514 acres.
378. Umm Kalkhah located 8 miles south of Ramlah. Population: 60. Obliterated in 1948; all its 326 acres were stolen.
379. Umm Khaled located 8.7 miles West of Tulkarem on the Mediterranean Sea. Population: 970. The village's 724 acres were stolen and incorporated into the Jewish city of Netannya after the village was blown up in 1948.
380. Wadi Aarahi located 33.5 miles south of Haifa. Population: 230. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish kibbutz Barqay built on its 2,194 acres.
381. Wadi Hunayn located 4.4 miles west of Ramlah. Population: 630. Obliterated in 1948; all its 573 acres were stolen and its mosque made into museum.
382. West Batani located 32 miles NE of Gaza. Population: 980. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Azriqam built on its 1,143 acres.
383. Yaffa. The city of Jaffa in 1948 had a population of 71,000 Palestinians. By November l948, all but 3,651 were force fully evicted from their homes. The city was then taken over by Jewish immigrants, and renamed Yafo.
384. Yalou located 15.5 miles NNW of Jerusalem. Population: 1,644. Obliterated in 1967 together with the Palestinian villages of Imwas’ and Beit Nouba; all 3,748 acres were stolen.
385. Yaqouq located 6.8 miles south of Safad. Population: 210. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Huqoq built on its 1,063 acres.
386. Yarda located 4.4 miles NNE of Safad. Population: 100.Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hazor built on its 342 acres.
387. Yasour located 18.6 miles south of Jaffa. Population: 1,070. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Hazor Ashdod built on its 3,355 acres.
388. Yasour located 6 miles SE of Jaffa. Population: 4,030. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Azor built on its 2,952 acres.
389. Yibnah located 15 miles south of Jaffa. Population: 5,420. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Yavne built in 1949 on its 14,889 acres.
390. Youbla located 7.4 miles NW of Beisan. Population: 210. Obliterated in 1948; all its 1,289 acres were stolen.
391. Zakariya located 16.7 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 1,180. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Zekharya and Sedot Mikha built in 1950 on its 3,830 acres.
392. Zalafah located 5 miles NNW of Tulkarem. Population: 210. Obliterated in 1948; all its lands of 1,928 acres were stolen.
393. Zarnouqah located 7.4 miles SW of Ramlah. Population: 2,380. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlements of Giv’at Brenner and Zarnuqa built on its 1,386 acres.
394. Zayta located 18.6 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 330. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Gal’on built on its 2,623 acres.
395. Zikreen located 15.5 miles NW of Hebron. Population: 960. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Kesalon built on its 4,299 acres.
396. Ziri’in located 8 miles north of Jenin. Population: 1,420. Obliterated in 1948, with the Jewish settlement of Yizre’el built in 1949 on its 5,550 acres of stolen land.
And this has been going on every day since 1948, and is happening RIGHT NOW too
July 15, 2007 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink