Are Mormons Different?
For the past several years, Utah has had the dubious distinction of having one of the highest bankruptcy filing rates in the country. In 2004, for example, nearly one in every 41 families in Utah filed for bankruptcy--about twice the national average. Is it the Mormons?
People in Utah have higher educational levels. The dominant religion--the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--preaches the importance meeting financial responsibilities and warns against debt. So why are so many people in Utah in financial trouble? Some point a finger at Mormon practices such as early marriage, large families, and tithing. But a new study says no: Mormons in Utah are slightly less likely to file for bankruptcy than non-Mormons. The researchers, Jim Wright and Zeke Johnson, say the problem lies elsewhere.
The researchers discovered that what distinguished Utah debtors from their counterparts around the country was the higher-than-average proportion who identify job problems and medical debts as triggering their bankruptcies. Wright and Johnson then tie those problems into a ragged social safety net (weaker health care coverage) and economic troubles (employment problems). Those challenges leave all Utah families--Mormon and non-Mormon alike--vulnerable for financial collapse when trouble strikes.
The high bankruptcy filing rate in Utah is has an O'Henry political twist. During the debates over the credit industry's amendments to the bankruptcy laws, one of the most aggressive supporters of the credit industry bill was Orin Hatch, the senior Republican senator from Utah. He helped moved the bill forward, as he denounced the deadbeats who filed for bankruptcy. Many people pointed out that his own constituents had one of the highest filing rates in the country, a point Hatch never acknowledged as he crusaded for the credit industry.
Senator Hatch's approach carried the day on the bankruptcy legislation. If lots of families file for bankruptcy, blame the families. Don't look at other social and economic factors that might be causing trouble.
Are Mormons different? By Senator Hatch's logic, they must be. But not according to Wright and Johnson's research. Like families everywhere, they struggle with the economic fallout from medical difficulties and job loss. And when they can't get good jobs or decent health care coverage, their problems may sweep them into bankruptcy.
Senator Hatch has been in too long. He's not conservative enough on many things and too happy to aid those who, as Isaiah puts it, "grind the face of the poor."
I appreciate this piece. I teach fiscal literacy in Utah and I've always known that there's more to the equations than a relative moral and ethical depression.
Not that we shouldn't do all we can do to change the numbers. Nor should Utah give in to creeping socialism as a 'fix.'
July 7, 2007 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
...and all those in Utah who filed are getting the same old credit card offers that everyone in the USA who has filed BK receives. Dreadful offers by predators who will give credit to people who are even below the poverty line! Some of the people who are getting these offers are mentally impaired, don't understand the terms, desperate or just don't know any better than to accept the offer.
I thought the name of this law had "consumer protection" in it? I suggest if Sen. Hatch wants to reduce bankruptcies then stop these predators. At least make them stop for at least eight years before they can contact anyone who has gone through bankruptcy. It is eight years before a person can file again, so why not put a time limit on the predators? If a person fresh out of bankruptcy wants to deal with these crooks, then let them search for them.
These predators are like drug dealers. Letters saying "we miss you" "we take a genuine interest in you" "we will help you re establish your credit" " "everyone deserves a second chance"
Words like this suck people into this nightmare!
Stop this madness ! Stop the predators!
Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/
July 7, 2007 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
The LDS takes care of its own. If you are a Mormon in good standing and fall on hard times the church will take care of you and your family, it will help you find a new job, will arrange for health insurance as needed, will give you generous loans to tide you over.
July 8, 2007 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
The power structure of the LDS church, as with many patriarchal authoritarian constructs takes care of it's own... loyalty is rewarded. And in doing so keeps one tied tight to the post and lips tightly shut. Now with that understood, as they say out in the pig barn, the heathens can suck hind teat.
~OGD~
July 8, 2007 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe those Mormons who declared bankruptcy were not in good standing. Gee,,, what would Jesus do? Would he only help if you were in good standing... Hmmmm....
Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/
July 8, 2007 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well with Jesus being a teacher (rabbi), I believe he first warned not to buy into that money changer crap.
And had a person not taken his teaching and fell into the debt, he would have most likely asked, "Have you learned your lesson?" And... "Now come with me."
~OGD~
July 8, 2007 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just because Jesus warned against something doesn't mean us mere mortals are going to pay attention. In fact, a great deal of the time we all end up learning something the hard way!
Show me one place in the bible where Jesus said Have you learned your lesson? He didn't even say those words to the woman at the well.
Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/
July 8, 2007 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
~
Supposedly, Jesus' actions spoke much louder than words.
Is there one place in the Bible that He or his disciples say he didn't.
I guess you've never gotten the gist of that one specific song in Porgy and Bess . . .
~OGD~
Now... I leave you to go in Peace ...
July 8, 2007 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do not know any songs from Porgy & Bess.
What is your point? I don't understand.
Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/
July 9, 2007 4:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand this remark. What "creeping socialism" are you talking about?
Satellite Sky Blog
Find the Truth. Do Justice.
July 9, 2007 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
~
Hello OkieLawyer:
I would also appreciate to know the answer to what "creeping socialism" is in Utah..
Some folks are easily confused that socialism, socialized, and social programs are all one and the same.
They either overlook or miss the point entirely that the following phrase is as socialized as a culture can organize, in my humble opinion.
~OGD~
ps: I have provide here to HiveRadical (who made the original statement) with a direct link to your post. I hope the person notices it and respond.
July 9, 2007 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hello HiveRadical:
In your comment above you said:
There is a question located toward the end of this thread (we are in), at this link that asks what your meaning is, or what you are referring to related to the creeping socialism in Utah:
If you see this, I look forward to your explanation.
~OGD~
July 9, 2007 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the answer lies here (at least in part?):
Who is exempt from licensing?
The following are exempt and are NOT required to be licensed with the Utah Division of Real Estate: federal government agencies and employees, state agencies and employees, wholesale lenders, hard-money lenders, commercial property lenders, loan servicers, and depository institutions and their affiliates and employees. “Depository Institutions” include banks, savings and loan associations, credit unions and industrial loan companies which are regulated by the Utah Department of Financial Institutions.
From: http://realestate.utah.gov/mortgage/mortlicensing.html
If wholesale lenders are exempt, doesn't this keep the whole can of worms wide open? Maybe not, because they do require everyone else to be licensed (though not referring to "brokers" by name).
July 10, 2007 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, do some investigation into just how the Mormon church does take care of the poor. The church does an ENORMOUS amount of charitable work for people and organizations of many different religions and non-religious groups. No one who knows anything about the matter would ever accuse the church of ignoring Jesus' call to succor the poor.
Secondly, I don't know all about the whole "good standing" issue in providing assistance to church members. "Good standing", by the way, refers to living by a set of prominent church commandments -- which, of course, anyone can lie about. So it's not as though that really restricts anyone's potential for getting money.
My father was a bishop and noted that most people (in his area, anyway) who solicited help hadn't stepped inside the church building in years, decades even. They insisted they would be attend church regularly if they got money, but that very rarely happened. So no, the church doesn't necessarily give money to any member that asks for it, but... it does what it can. Each local unit doesn't always necessarily have funds to pay the bills of every person that happened to be baptized in the church decades ago.
That said, the church's welfare program does help many good, deserving people inside the church. And its other programs help thousands of people outside of it as well.
July 11, 2007 9:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I did not mean that the church was ignoring the poor. I am sorry if you thought that.
Thank you for explaining.
Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/
July 11, 2007 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some of my message (the first paragraph, particularly) was mostly in response to the posting above yours. So, sorry about misdirecting my comments.
July 11, 2007 9:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Mormon church has done (and will continue to do, I'm sure) humanitarian and charitable work for thousands upon thousands of persons and groups, regardless of their religious affiliation (or lack thereof).
As I mentioned in another post (which should have been separate, which is why I'm posting this reply), no one who knows anything about the Mormon church would say that they ignore the economic needs of "the heathens", as you phrased it.
Do even some minimal research into the church's humanitarian work and then tell me that "the heathens can suck hind teat" is its motto.
July 11, 2007 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
One of our Apostles (not presently living) that became president of our Church wrote a book entitled "THE RED CARPET Socialism - the Royal Road to Communism." This man, Ezra Taft Benson, was one to mention this. The concept is also seen in Frederic Bastiat's "The Law" (available online-very good read, takes about an evening to read the whole thing) the basic essence of creeping socialism is that an inherent part to reallocating resources, even "democratically," is that it gradually eliminates motive to produce AND motive to not receive something at the hands of the state. The natural tendency, no matter how noble the intent of the law, is to a creeping dependence and creeping removal of motivation for productivity.
Even beyond this there's an ideological reason I have to fight socialism to all extents I can. It's forcing people to do good. In LDS theology this was the crime that the Devil first committed--he tried to force all to be good. When you take tax dollars and reallocate them, redistribute wealth, you are forcing whatever portion of that populace that doesn't agree with the reallocation to fit your model of good. This is what Frederic Bastiat titled 'legal plunder.' It's the fact that it takes the law and turns it against the very items it was designed to protect, the foremost of these objects of intended protection was the agency of individuals. The agency to decide what they will and will not do with the things they produce, the agency to decide what they will and will not produce.
I hope this is a sufficient clarification for what you sought. If not feel free to ask. I need to see if I can get notifications when people respond. I apologize for not seeing this earlier.
August 3, 2007 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink