Actually, he's placing the issues of the working poor and middle classes front and center, and it's more than a bit overdue. But some on the far left who had attached themselves to his campaign, a few bloggers and nutrooter names had been pressing the campaign to put those issues on the backburner and focus exclusively on the few pet issues they care about.

Glad to see he's starting to listen to the the wider issues once again. Hint, hint, this isn't something you can redefine so as to easily exploit it.

predatory mortgages

What are they?

The sons of the prophet are noble and bold,
and quite unaccustomed to fear.
But the bravest by far in the ranks of the Shah
was Abdul Abulbul Amir

I really like Edwards and Obama. Edwards has really been stepping up to the plate and I sure wish he could more traction. Maybe it's just too early...

I wonder if Mr. Edwards read the May issue of Business Week. That is not a publication I normally read but while doing a search today I ran across some excerpts about thier cover story on poverty in America and predatory co's.
It's shocking that there are credit card co's that exist for the sole purpose of trapping desperate people. People who are actually living below the poverty line. They can always say no, but desperate people sometimes do desperate things. And there is no doubt in my mind some of the people who accept these dreadful offers from these predators are mentally impaired. Some of them get these offers in the mail . I know one who said, I must have pretty good credit for them to offer me this card. I told him it was a predator and he would be wise to shred it and all others he recieved.
Who is protecting them?
What ever keeps the economy going... easy credit that can turn into a nightmare, but spend, spend, spend.
I wish I had more hope. John Edwards sounds good, but who knows? Certainly not I.

http://pupart.1hwy.com/

I'd pick Dennis Kucinich for that...

To boldly go...

I'm glad he is doing that. There is another candidate that is stepping up to the plate on this issue. He is actually going for the root of the problem. Credit card debt and abusive practices are only a symptom of a deeper problem. Ron Paul is making this an issue in his campaign. I know this is primarily a Democrat oriented blog, but lets put partisanship aside and think about the issues. When you do a close examination, you'll find that there is really no difference between what Democrats and Republicans do at the end of the day. They exist solely to make us feel like we have made a choice. Edwards may not be considering what is causing the credit card problem, Ron Paul is. Lets solve the problem, not put a bandaid on the symptom.

BTW, one commenter mentioned the predatory nature of credit card companies, and a disbelief that it is even legal to be taking advantage of poor people.  Did you know that the major banks own many of the payday lending companies?  It isn't the credit card companies alone.  It is the major banks.  Banks are willing to make risky loans because they can charge unlimited interest rates.  That is how they make money now.  The usual low interest loan is a loser.  Banks are unable to meet their overhead with good loans.  The bank executive salaries can't be met without the three and four figure interest rates on payday lending, especially when they default.  There is a high default rate, and it is extremely profitable to destroy a desperate poorly educated low level worker because they can garnish his paycheck for life to pay the interest on their loan.

Jim Anderson

The Truth About Credit

This is going to be a common talking point Edwards is going to have to fight. It's total BS, just like all of them, but he's still gonna have to fight it.

When I was in college I got a credit card with, lets say, a $2000 limit. Not that much but I was in college so my income was extremely limited. Nevermind that. By the time I graduated, my debt limit was $10000. I had no job. I had no income. I had heavy student loan debt. But they kept giving me that credit.

So I had a meager temp job and was paying down my loan as much as possible even though I was getting socked with a 25% interest rate (I made some late payments in school - my income was strained, etc. etc.). So a fourth or more of my payments were going to interest. But no matter, it was "my responsibility".

After a few months I noticed they *raised* my interest rate to 30%! This was after five or six months of solid, continuous payments and a good year after my last late payment. I called them up, "we did it, there's nothing you can do to lower it, we'll lower it when we feel like it, TS".

Fortunately, I was getting 3 or 4 credit card offers in the mail *every day* so I was able to find one that gave me a lower interest rate so I balance transferred. If I didn't do that I would have paid tons more money to them for... well no real reason at all.

Nevertheless, it's funny that companies will send 3 or 4 offers a day to a kid with no job and lots of debt and histories of late payments on their sole credit card.

I'm not alone, either. Credit card companies are not interested in giving you the amount of debt you can reasonably handle. They don't make money from that. No, they spend a lot of time and effort getting people more debt than they can afford and then shackling them into servitude when they make *one* mistake. I don't care who you are, that is messed up. There's no reason why making one payment a few days late should be punished with hundreds or thousands of dollars in future interest payments. There is no reason why a company should change the terms of someone who pays their entire balance each month (read: who doesn't make the company money) so that one slip-up will send them to financial hell. This is abuse, plain and simple.

Corvid
.
Excellent comment, joshuaf.
.
Given these clear abuses in the credit-card industry, I've often wondered why someone doesn't launch an ethical credit card, one with full disclosure, reasonable interest rates, etc, etc.
.
You'd think consumers, or a least a good portion of them, would flock to such a product. But would it work? Is it even possible to be both ethical and profitable in this industry?

Are there any candidates that are just saying to stop this easy credit?

As far as I know, Ron Paul is the only presidiential candidate who seriously worries about it. You can go to YouTube and see his comments regarding our fiat money supply.

one of the real reasons why the middle class is losing "buying power" is because when the federal reserve prints out more money, the money in circululation loses value and people have to work harder in order to maintain their quality of life.

even if you don't plan to caucus or support him, I still hope that you learn more about what Ron Paul has to say.

To boldly go...

Is anyone *reallly* serious about stopping easy credit?

probably not. Ms. Warren, who posted this dicussion, works for Harvard and Harvard has a $30 billion endowment which funds her university. I should probably analyze that investment portfolio to see if it's "middle class friendly" or not.

Good grief, if they lost all that, some of you may actually have to pay a steep fee for the convienance...

stores like Home Depot would probably have to raise their prices to offset the hit to their profits.

Wal-mart is now getting into "banking services" because, that way, the sale of a pair of socks will pay dividends for years to come.

To boldly go...

1. it's not necessarilly because of shopping at the mall - by credit card was mostly larded up with tuition bills. In my observations people run up credit cards not out doing shopping sprees, but paying for crap they need to pay for. Car repair, medical bills, and things along those lines. Sometimes other ways to pay aren't possible or feasible. That's just reality.

2. What about the credit card companies saying no? Why is it okay that they extend credit to people they KNOW cannot pay it back? I know I turned down about 99.99% of offers I got... but the one I did accept still screwed me.

3. I am not anti-credit card or anti-making money. I worked hard to pay off my debt. The companies don't play fair, however. They use their power and leverage to take advantage of people's situations and exploit them. That's the problem. And the government has been sadly complicit in this, which is what Edwards wants to change.

Here's some simple suggestions :

Living within ones means
No easy credit.
No dirty tricks.
No lobby to buy politicans.
Common sense.

I'm a dreamer! LOL!

Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/

While I totally agree, I would like to add a caveat to the sentiment that these damages are the result of the last 6 years. This is not meant ot be some repudiation of your comment, just a personal comment on the ideas of many "liberals." The problems that John Edwards is seeking to revert is not just the result of George Bush but Clinton, Bush I, Reagan and so forth. The country has been under attack from a class warfare that has reduced marginal tax burdens on the wealthy and increased taxes on the working poor and middle class (think sales tax, excise, unfunded mandates amidst rising costs), sent jobs overseas while busting unions and destroying any semblance of economic security folks may have. These problems, to only name a few, are the result of the entrentched neoliberalism/neoconservatism that has controlled policy for nearly 30 years. This is not just a Bush problem.

It is high time that America started to revert back to its better days of affordable education, economic parity and communitarianism. John Edwards is that candidate.

Edwards should talk about moving the risk back where it belongs.

but if people start getting screwed, won't the industry get a bad name and lose customers?

To boldly go...

There is no common sense in even offering credit to someone living below the poverty line.

Actually, if you think about it from the lender's point of view, it makes perfect sense.  It is much more profitable.  70% of Credit card company profits come from fees and excess interest from people who can't pay their accounts on time.

 Would the economy collapse?
Hmmmmm
Will it anyway if this easy credit continues?
Hmmmmm

No, the economy would thrive, after it recovers from the impact of slowed consumer spending. 

If the credit situation we have continues, and the federal government continues to print money for war and recovering from natural disasters, our fiat currency will disintegrate into hyperinflation and our economy will crash.  If that happens it is likely another central bank called the IMF/World Bank will come to our rescue and reorganize our government and take away our liberties.  China could see this coming and dump all it's U.S. government bond holdings, demanding payment, and help throw our federal government into bankruptcy, to precipitate the bailout.  When that happens, China will replace the U.S. as the primary world economic power.  Our lives will change dramatically.  We need to take action now to reverse this monetary disaster in the making. 

I think Ron Paul has shown consistent integrity throughout his political career, unlike all other politicians.  He has a solution that I believe addresses the real problem.

Jim Anderson

The Truth About Credit

Hey MCS
Universal Default may indeed make it much more painful for people to keep using their CC. That is NOT the biggest problem with universal default. I think most people who get gouged with UD just want to pay the bill off and tell the CC Co to go take a hike!
Say you were on a limited income and your fridge broke and you needed a new one.
You buy one on credit and plan to have it paid for in say 9 or ten months. OOPS! The CC co decieded you were a high risk because you were late paying your phone bill. So, since you are unable to pay the balance you are stuck paying more than you planned because they have raised your interest !
That is not fair!

I haven't had many car accidents in my life, but I have never had my insurance raised when I did.

The CC Co's play a gotcha game and the less you have the more they want to "play"
You know it is all a game, as the experts love to explain "how to play the CC game"
Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/

Very interesting and scary Jim.

Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/

Re: I hear what you're saying but why drag the credit card companies through the mud

The issue isn't (or shouldn't be) credit card companies per se. It should be outrageous practices by the credit card companies. Once upon a time credit card companies were able to make a tidy profit charging reasonable interest rates and minimal fees. Nowadays though they charge interest rates that would embarrass a loan shark, and rip off their customers with fees that are not even on the same continent as "reasonable". Usury was once punished by the Inquisition at the stake. I don't think we should go that far certainly, but we do need to rein in these folks. And don't tell me it would be bad for the economy. I'm talking about returning to lending practices that were run of the mill a mere thirty or forty years ago, when the economy was in pretty good shape and so too were the banks.

Re: car companies raise your insurance rates when you have accidents,

True, but my other insurance rates (home, life, health etc.) do not go up.

Re: A cursory look at his resume reveals a man with limited qualifications and NO executive experience.

You could have said the same about Abe Lincoln or FDR. Lincoln had even less governmental experience than Edwards who at least has sat in the Senate. Meanwhile George W Bush was governor of Texas and while he didn't exactly cover himself in glory in Austin, neither was his governorship the five star chamber of horrors and premier theater of the absurd that his presidency has been.

Good points...

The law ought not protect predators who make bad loans to folks in dire straights, restoring the bankruptcy laws to their prior status would be an excellent step in forcing some responsibility on these types of lenders. The only plastic I use is a debit card so I've never fallen prey to the CC Companies. If I can't pay for it I don't buy it, however I realize sometimes people are not able to avoid debt and are also not deadbeats and wish to get and stay current. For that reason I hate the shoddy practices of some of the credit card bloodsuckers. IMO the government ought to throw the skids under these check advance companies who are little more than legalized loan sharking operations.

have you looked at the Ron Paul website yet? Meetups are forming!

if things crash, even the rich will feel poor! I pray that the "house of cards" doesn't fall though!

To boldly go...

True, but my other insurance rates (home, life, health etc.) do not go up.

1: home insurance in Florida, because of weather events, has been going up and it's a difficult issue;

2: health insurance doesn't go up? as long as you stay with the same insurer otherwise, don't previous illnesses drive up the cost? and the HR person at the company I work for said health insurance costs went up $10,000, or so, this year...

BTW: I don't claim these things are fair...

To boldly go...

Corvid -

Yes. I've often wondered too why a company hasn't launched a more ethical cc model yet. As we know, this is difficult given that the primary motivating force of the major cc's companies that dominate the industry is to maximize profits. However, I do believe a safer, more ethical cc model could work if it was structured with safer guidelines and of course, profit exploitation would need to NOT be the primary driver for the model.

That is why the Financial Product Safety Commission that Professor Warren proposes could reform and benefit the industry by enabling those cc's, as well as other financial products in the marketplace - that are decent to be more transparent to the public. It would be a win/win to establish some safety measures.

Edwards bringing this issue front and center shows that times are changing, things can change for the better - movements often start small and gain momentum as more folks get educated on the issues...one can look at global warming and see how that has gained traction. As more folks realize that this is a law, society and economic issue impacting more and more middle class folks, I think attitudes are starting to change from 'Oh this could never happen to me to 'This could happen to me.' What we are starting to see are these issues beginning to move from a micro to a macro level.

Don't you think everyone should have a rainy day fund? I remember my Mom saying that many times when I was growing up.Unfortunately, I didn't always listen to her, but the older I get the more I know Mom was right about so many things.

It may seem like your CC is paying you, but I remember the article at the TPM Cafe not long ago saying who is really paying those rewards. Still, you are getting it and that is good you can handle your card.

I clicked the link on and freegan sounds like a new name for things people have been doing for years.
I am not a dumpster diver, but recently I took a really well made standing coat rack from the curb in front of my neighbors house. It had been left for the trash. I cleaned it and painted it with white metal paint and plan to paint the details gold.
Last week I got a great solid wood desk for 10 dollars at a yard sale. I redid that and it looks super.
I am all for recycling and redoing instead of throwing things away.

Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/

I meant my other insurance rates are not raused as a result of a car accident.

As long as you didn't get hurt in the car accident, your health insurance rates wouldn't go up. I'm under the impression that your employer's group rate would go up if you "heavily used" your health insurance.

it's not quite "universal default" but the actuarials and bean counters do protect themselves.

I also think that car insurance companies "made a claim" that there was a statistical link between the propensity to file a claim and FICO score.

To boldly go...

I also think that car insurance companies "made a claim" that there was a statistical link between the propensity to file a claim and FICO score.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep, another excuse to gouge those who can least afford it, by the big greedy corporations.

Fortunately, I am able to get insurance from the same place I bank-USAA. They give good insurance rates and it is not based on ones Fico score.
If I had to get insurance from one of these places that did check my score, I am sure it would cost me more than someone whose Fico score was high, since I filed bankruptcy 2 years ago.
Would it matter to those who judged me by my Fico score that I have a good driving record?
My 2005 Scion XB certainly isn't the fastest car on the road and I only have about 14 thousand miles on it. I am almost 60 years old. I am not exactly out her running wild! LOL!
Yet, I could be considered a high risk for some insurance co because of the freaking almightly Fico score !

http://pupart.1hwy.com/

You never cease to amaze me how you always come up with excuses for these co's gouging people. .

Oh, well, to say that the insurance co can argue that those with lower Fico scores fail to maintain their cars is silly. The dealer where I bring my car keeps a record of when I have had my car serviced. I am sure I could get a copy and probably anyone else that needed a copy of theirs could get it too. I don't even need to rely on the dealer, because I keep all my invoices of car repairs and maintanance.

You and others like you simply do not know what anyone who has filed bankruptcy has actually paid .
You might be surprised at the number of people who paid, and paid, and paid for many years
and actually paid the balance of an account plus more interest that you can ever imagine. But since they were snowed in and couldn't pay the balance, a good portion of what they paid was never applied to principal.
I am one of those people. The CC co's didn't lose one damn dime on me when I filed bankruptcy. They gained a lot and I am certain they
are sorry to see this prison free from their debtors prison they had me in with their loan shark interest and outrageous fees.
Why in the hell do you think they are flooding my mailbox with more offers of credit? Oh, because they are gluttons for punishment and want to lose more???? Sure!!!
They even write on the front of the envelope
WE MISS YOU!! I sure as hell don't miss those greedy SOBS!

http://pupart.1hwy.com/

You never cease to amaze me how you always come up with excuses...

I don't make this stuff up! You can go HERE and see for yourself that the insurance industry claims that "low FICO" equals "higher claims."

You might be surprised at the number of people who paid, and paid, and paid for many years

I don't think I'd be surprised. I have MANY friends that are hooked on minimum payments...

To boldly go...

I think you just like playing the devils advocate.
I have read a lot on the internet about insurance/Fico gouging. That's what I believe it is.
I am sure USAA has a lot of claims but they are an honest co and are not using the Fico score to determine how much a person pays for insurance.
Surely you must see news on the net about people who are buying a good credit score! Consumer Affairs recently had a big article about it. What about these poor souls who are struggling to get things removed from their credit reports that should have never been there in the first place? Should they been paying extra because Fico is slow to correct their mistakes??? I don't think so!!!

You lump people into a category of being hooked on making minimun payments.
You sir, I am sure do not know everyones financial situation and how and what they are paying... even your friends! I doubt very seriously if they share this information with you.
I believe it is just you judging.
You may or may not have it all together, but as Professor Warren, who I admire very much says... anyone can hit some bumps in the road. Maybe when you do you will gain some understanding!

Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/

I doubt very seriously if they share this information with you.
I believe it is just you judging.

i'm just very thrifty and have read books like Simplify Your Life and The Overspent American: Why We Want What We Don't Need".

The topic does come up and people do talk to me about their situations since they know I'm the real deal.

They typically laugh at me when I ask them to give up cable and going out to lunch, etc...

If you go over to Of Two Minds, the writer claims that the Chinese pay off their mortgages in 3 to 5 years-- a habit that Americans don't have and the next generation of Americans is even embracing 40 or 50 year mortgages! Yikes!

To boldly go...

mcs, you must work for the CC's. I received a bill once and noticed my interest rate had jumped from 9% to 28%. I called to find out why ( I have automatic payments). They informed me that the reason was that I had exceeded HALF the limit on my other credit card, so it changed my credit rating somehow and they pounced. Another time I was surprised by a late fee. Auto pay still in force. I called and found out they had moved up the monthly due date and caught me off guard that way. Do you live in the USA? It must be in Delaware.

After all these years with Bush, 2 to 4 years is a short amount of time.
Professor Warren has written several books which have helped me. I am sure they have helped others.
I don't know her, but I know when I wrote to her shortly after I filed bankruptcy, she responded and was helpful and understanding.
I wish she would run for noffice.

Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/

Did Bush do something during his presidency that drove you into bankruptcy or was their something wrong before he took office?

By the way, including that link to a commercial site in your comments is tacky in my opinion.

Why don't you ask your question to the many big businesses that have filed bankruptcy since Bush has been in office?

If those who run this site don't like anything I have posted they can remove it.
I don't give a rats behind what you think is tacky. Go look in the mirror!

Bonnie
http://pupart.1hwy.com/

In the interest of clarity;

using annual income as a measure, define "Middle Class".

Or,

define it in your terms.

Another question I'd ask of the NY Times...

Since when is it wrong for the founder of a non-profit or foundation to use it as a platform?

The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, for example, does a lot of good. But it's absurd to think that Gates doesn't use his foundation work as a platform from which he can speak out on social issues.

A cynic might point out that Edwards is running for office and that he used his charitable work to help him get there. But, what's wrong with that? Should he have just sat around doing nothing for 3 years? Should he have formed an investment bank and given speeches for big money like Rudy Giuliani, who shirked his responsibilities to a non-paying government advisory panel? Seems to me that for a politician out of government, with plans to get back in at any level, that doing issue oriented work for a non-profit that actually helps people is a qualifier for the job they're seeking.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Hey, I loved those paper mache dogs! Thanks for pointing them out!

To boldly go...

I won't argue with that.

But as long as there are CC and mortgages, then there just needs to be common sense all around.
People are going to make mistakes.
They shouldn't be sentanced to life in a prison without walls if they are unable to pay off a balance that goes no where when they are trying to pay it.
Debt buyers should not be allowed to charge interest on debt they pay pennies on the dollar for. Since interest is allowed, it should only be applied to what the debt buyer actually bought it for. Interest is *supposed"
to be charged for money borrowed. I never borrowed any money from a debt collector, yet I was kept in the dark that they were charging me interest and only found out almost $2000 later that they were not reducing my debt, they were increasing it. And leading me to believe I was reapying a debt which by then was all interest and fees anyway.
I was a scared desperate woman and they knew it and took advange of that fact.

I am not proud of going into debt, but I am in no way ashamed that I filed bankruptcy. I paid a very high price, not only in money, but in terrible stress.
I don't ever plan to file again. I have learned a lot.
I get furious with these pradators who offer me credit . I feel very vulnerable. I am so grateful I am a member of USAA though and only do my banking with them. I am certain I can trust them. I went to the library today and read the cover story in a May 2007 issue of Business Week. The article is about poverty and big business who are targeting
those with low credit scores and low incomes.
It is a sick story not only about the people who have fallen into these traps, but the businesses that are setting the traps.

There needs to be common sense on both sides.

I'm not sure where to post this, so I will put here.

Newly effective credit reporting agencies policy: Credit Triggers.

Satellite Sky Blog

Find the Truth. Do Justice.

...if edwards had a broader emotional appeal, he'd be higher in the polls-- maybe!

Edwards would be higher in the polls if he took money from the right people and they told the pollsters how to write the polls and they saw to it he got as much free media exposure as Clinton and Obama. That along with the fact he is the most capable person in the race is why I support him. In short he is honest, smart and not sold out...I could care less about his haircut or if he paints his toenails.

Your right, some things really are in the eye of the beholder or the mind of the seller...other things are merely facts.

Stop being so naive. Every candidate spends $400 on their haircut. For Mitt Romney I would peg that as a floor, not a cap.

George Bush wears handmade suits that cost thousands of dollars. Yet for some reason nobody made an issue out of that during his campaign while he tried to portray himself as a down home guy you drink a beer with at the pub. Thompson drove around a red pickup truck during his campaign but it was as much a prop as that machete Bush uses to clear brush. Romney's pop was governor of Michigan and the head of one of the country's biggest car companies.

Edwards is unique for a few reasons: one, he actually grew up blue-collar (unlike Bush or Romney), two, he actually does care about poor people (being formerly blue collar), and three, he doesn't try to hide his wealth. So the $400 haircut is just a distraction. It means he wants to look good on TV and to the world and every President should. I don't want my representative looking like garbage on the world stage.