Though, I have to admit... it was a first DWI offense, right? Did she have a prior record? Because I know people with one DWI offense and it's always been fines, maybe a temporary driving suspension and education classes or AA.

You know what? I really don't want to start an argument about this. I take it back!

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

I remember that One Night In Pa--

Oops, me too. Where's Wonkette?

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Oliver Willis has a link to a story about the case of a missing Miami-Dade college student whose story was bumped by MSNBC to clear the way for Paris Hilton coverage

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/crime_scene/2007/06/paris.html

John Edwards had the best response, when asked about Paris Hilton, he reminded us the bigger issue, disparities in education, health care, etc.
If Paris Hilton received treatment far different from that of other DUI drivers who are caught after being told not to drive, then the sheriff has added to unequal justice. I haven't followed the story closely enough to know whether her initial sentence was the norm, less, or more than other DUIs found driving.

If a normal person cracked up in jail and the jailer decided it was in the best interests of everyone to send them home, would the judge have ordered them back in? This is more complex than the way it's being portrayed, and why someone should get angry because a complete stranger in circumstances they know very little of went nuts in jail, was sent home on house arrest, and then was ordered back by a judge is something of a mystery to me.

Here's another question that bears asking: if Hilton had hurt herself in there, or come out of jail telling horrible tales of how she was held on suicide watch and so on, how would people feel then? Hilton has a gigantic bully pulpit from which to spin tales and earn sympathy -- and an angry backlash against those mean jailers. The public, eager to get mad at the jailers for granting her "special treatment," could just as easily get mad at the jailers for not granting her special treatment, once she got out and her publicists went to work. The sheriff was in a difficult position. The fact is, she is not a normal person, and dealing with her inevitably leads to problems, problems neither you nor I, nor almost anybody else, can understand as well as that sheriff.

Crooked cops, crooked lawyers, crooked judges, crooked politicians, crooked doctors, crooked scientists, crooked clergymen -- but no crooked journalists. An amazing record for an amazing class of people.

Actually, I think this might have been a second offense. (There's a timeline here, but it's a little unclear which court appearances are for separate offenses.)

The first offense last September, as I understand it, did result in a fine of a few hundred dollars and a suspension of her  license. I believe those were the charges she pleaded not guilty to on January 9th.

On January 15th, the California Highway Patrol pulled her over and discovered she was driving with a suspended license. They made her sign an acknowledgement of the suspension.  It's not clear to me just what caused the patrol to pull her over in the first place, but on January 22nd, she pleaded no contest to "a reduced charge of alcohol-related reckless driving," was fined $1500, put on 3 years' probation, and ordered to attend an alcohol education class.

On February 27th, she was stopped again, this time for speeding and for driving without her headlights on (it was 11:00 at night), and police again discover she is driving on a suspended license -- it had originally been suspended through March -- and the acknowledgement she signed in January is found in the glove compartment. 

By April, she had still not enrolled in the alcohol education class she had been required to attend by sometime in February, and she was late getting to court on one of her court dates, so I'm not surprised that the judge decided he needed to get strict to make her understand that the court was to be taken seriously. (It probably did not help that her mother made it quite plain they did NOT take it seriously.)

Good for the judge for sending her back to the pokey. 

I'm sure Paris will come through this experience with a new, socially conscious attitude.

Maybe adopt a baby or two... 

"Thank God George Bush is our president." -Rudy Giuliani

What's interesting is that all sorts of TV watchers are writing in that they're sick to death of Paris, could care less about her fate, are tuning out the MSM who persist in covering her...and the MSM, it would seem, could care less? What does it mean that the MSM continues to bombard our airwaves with news that literally turns people off.

It doesn't make sense. Or does it?

I think sending her back is a mockery of a travesty of a sham of a charade of an injustice. Can't Bush pardon her?

But perhaps you are missing the point. Paris Hilton is not the kid that went to summer camp. When Paris Hilton was born, she was immediately worth some 500 million dollars. For her to wind up doing some time in jail is very different than for you and I having to go through the same process. That's not to excuse her behavior, but it is to understand her mind.

Worse, Paris could have hired a fleet of limos and drivers to respond to her beck and call 24 hours a day.

Worse still, she instead decided not to use a limo when going out to party on the town while getting shitfaced drunk.

Worse yet, she knows that paparazzi follow her every move and would record her driving drunk and could notify the police.

Paris deserves every second spent in that jail. She was literally a danger to herself and others. But, no one around her has done anything to effectively slow her down.

She needs to learn that money, mommy, daddy, connections, fame, and power can not solve every problem. What if she actually did kill someone? She needs to learn that acting recklessly has real consequences and that acting responsibly is necessary, even if it means listening to boring judges and lawyers.

Dahlink, if it were up to the jailer to release prisoners every time they "cracked", we'd have a lot of empty prisons.

That would be wonderful.

Try to understand I am a liberal and therefore prefer libraries and universities to prisons that so many of you wingers love.

If people read books anymore and studied on things, they would know that torture is not a good thing whether it is a Paris Hilton or an aging streetwalker. Someone thought psychological stress was a mighty fine thing.

Be mighty fine if everybody was equal, if all women were young and beautiful and rich. Be mighty nice for us men.

Be nice if Paris Hilton was treated like everyone else but she is not, especially when so many want to do her harm here.

This is an awful thread.

I feel like I was drawn to some particularly atrocious pornography.

We all have our weaknesses I suppose but not all of us are exposed in broad daylight.

Best, Terry

I read a story by 2 women in Salon.com today that went on and on about Paris Hilton and how;

"All we can do is pray that one day, Paris Hilton will show mercy on us all, and go away." Talk about contradictions!

Paris Hilton is a media creation; for an extended period they followed and reported on her every move and now they whine about hearing too much about her. Paris Hilton is still another example of the media's thirst for grist for their mill, whether it was Chandra Levy, Natalie Hallowell, or some other story ( add your choice ) they covered 24/7.

Part of me feels sympathy for Paris Hilton; so what if she was born into wealth and enjoys what it brings? She doesn't seem to have ever hurt anyone, not like some of the wealthy sharks we have in this country who's philosophy seems to be "too much is never enough."

I can think of one in particular who was born into wealth and now has Americans dying and being maimed for life in Iraq.

Paris Hilton never hurt me or my country.

Who here wants to "do her harm"??? 

"Thank God George Bush is our president." -Rudy Giuliani

Hmm, maybe that's an idea - actually use Paris as part of an active campaign to scuttle GOP arguments for scuttling the estate tax. How about something along the lines of "You think government wastes money, take a look at what the rich actually do with theirs." I don't know if the Right would want to trot out the old "Class Warfare" issue. Paris Hilton has no class at all.

Who here wants to "do her harm"???

Most everyone.

Seems this ungrateful wench has no right to be pretty, young and rich.

If someone has addressed the proper measures to address drug dependence, I have missed it.

A man locally was jailed for drunk driving and died in custody.

The jail authorities had failed to administer an easily available, legal drug that could have saved his life.

An autopsy showed the man died from the side effects of withdrawal from his alcohol dependence.

I am a little curious as to the claimed medical emergency. Of course it may be a trivial excuse as everyone assumes but it seems rather bizarre to me.

Best, Terry

She has a private cell in a section reserved for special people, so it's not exactly going to be gang violence and such.

In all fairness, these special sections, as I understand it, are what they call here in New York "the Shoe" - special housing units that are essentially solitary confinement.  There is ample evidence that prolonged periods in solitary are psychologically damaging - I think it was considered a violation of the 8th amendment 200 years ago.  I don't think she'll have a more pleasant stay because of this.

Not that 23 days in solitary for Paris is a bad thing....

They might have used the appellation, Nacogdoches Hilton, but that would have been an insult to the folks of that fine city in Louisiana.

Actually, she was caught drunk driving, and driving erratically in a dangerous manner. She was suspended, caught driving again. Then she was caught driving for a third time, doing double the speed limit in a school zone, with her suspension in her glove compartment.

Let's get serious here. Paris Hilton has proven herself to have such poor impulse control that she drives drunk and she drives unsafely.

Doubling the speed limit in a school zone? I'm sure you'd be laughing if she accidentally ran over a toddler.

Do you really want her on the same roads with the rest of us? If not, how do you propose that her behaviour would or should be controlled, since she clearly has no regard for controls.

Is it really a justifiable sentence to simply limit her to a four bedroom, three bathroom house with all the amenities. It's far less and inconvenience and handicap for her than it is for non-wealthy people.

Frankly, if Paris Hilton were poor or black, then she'd be in jail right now and no one would care. Is that fair?

If Paris Hilton were white and middle class, she'd get the kid glove treatment. Is that fair?

Paris Hilton is rich, notorious, and indifferent to the law. Is that fair?

Huh?  Where did you get this?

Seems this ungrateful wench has no right to be pretty, young and rich.

The point that I have heard upstream is that the pretty, young, rich individual has no right to endanger the rest of us by driving drunk on a license which had already been suspended for driving drunk.  This is someone who could still go anywhere she pleased in a taxi or chauferred limosine, but chose to ignore the legal restrictions placed on her because she thought she could get away with anything.  When the sheriff let her out I am sure that compounded the notion that she was exempt from what ordinary people have to put up with. 

Is your point that because she is pretty, young and rich she should carry on anyway she wants to and the police (and pedestrians and other drivers, for that matter) should just get out of the way? 

And what does your example about the guy who died in custody from alcohol intoxication have to do with Paris Hilton?  She was in the pokey for one day and had already been seen by 2 doctors. 

A more appropriate tale would be of the many people killed by drunk drivers with or without suspended licenses.  It really isn't doing Ms Hilton a favor to undo the judge's order.  It may save her life and someone else's if she actually learns a lesson.  Before now she simply hasn't had to learn any self-restraint; rules never applied to the Hiltons.  Maybe this is a good thing.

Jan

He was obviously biased. The judge had seen "One Night in Paris" and was annoyed by the "night vision" camera usage.

thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Yes of course ... it would be safer for LA residents if they would build enough jail capacity to keep dangerous drivers like Paris Hilton (or the hypothetical Harris Pilton) off the road.

But they don't. That is why the Harriss Pilton's of the world get remanded to home custody, or do community service, or something along the same lines until they do something really atrocious and then get locked up.

Except for Paris Hilton, someone with that record would not be in jail this weekend.

It's ironic that to someone that's had a chance to develop a reasonable level of mental discipline, solitary confinement is quite manageable. To those who depend on external stimuli for their very being, it is indeed tough.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

I got her criminal record wrong because I haven't been following except in passing. But, I think Bruce is right. Even with her record, who she is has a lot to do with how she was sentenced.

We could make am good debate over that, too.

Judges obviously have a lot of leeway in sentencing and they sometimes do give a harder sentence to a public figure in order to set an example. Is that right?

At the same time, switch over to the Libby trial. When people without power and influence are facing a sentence, do major legal figures show up to write glowing testimonials about their characters in an attempt to sway the judge?

It certainly cuts both ways but does it cut both ways deeply enough that the system is fair or does it leave us with the sense that the system is way too random to deliver actual fair justice, even for crimes committed, as opposed to crimes that are in dispute?
thosethingswesay.blogspot.com

Assume the addiction is physical. In such a case, putting her into house arrest, rather than a hospital or rehab facility, is even more irresponsible.

No real argument with some reservations.

While there are deaths from acute alcohol intoxication, such as chugging a bottle in a hazing ritual and falling dead, it's rather unlikely that she would have had no visible symptoms when being taken to the jail.

There is a vast difference between acute alcohol intoxication and side effects from withdrawal. One habitual drinker that I knew once used to seem like he was drinking starch when on a bender. As he got increasingly stewed, he would straighten up from a habitual slouch, his slur would clear up, his his eyes would widen and he would begin to walk straight. Effects of intoxication differ but I never saw anything remotely like that.

Withdrawal from barbiturates particularly is known to be lethal.

# Withdrawal from barbiturates can be difficult. Symptoms include irritability, nervousness, inability to sleep, nausea, and even convulsions.
# Sudden withdrawal from high doses can be fatal.

http://www.thesite.org/drinkanddrugs/drugsafety/drugsatoz/barbituates

All just the wildest kind of speculation but obviously Hilton wasn't above using drugs of most any kind.

Did the doctors of whatever stripe think it was simply too dreadful for the poor rich girl to be incarcerated and that constituted a medical emergency?

Frankly I hope not whatever the justification offered for a reprieve. I don't deny the possibility.

Best, Terry

And your point is that Paris should be spared because of this?

There is a vast difference between acute alcohol intoxication and side effects from withdrawal.

Now who is asking for different treatment than all the other DUI 3rd offenders who get dragged in?  Your point is that they should all go home in case they need a little "something?"  How many drunks get to go home with a bracelet?

And to a previous comment:  Drunk driving is self-destructive, even if the driver, her parents, her doctor, her lawyer, et al don't agree.  They are used to enabling her.  It is what they do best. 

Jan

And your point is that Paris should be spared because of this?

And you can find some place I said anything remotely like that?

You will fail to find anyplace that I said Paris Hilton should have been spared.

I am even less anxious to spare all those slobbering over beating up girls without understanding anything of what occurred.

Now who is asking for different treatment than all the other DUI 3rd offenders who get dragged in?

I suggest to you that DUI should not incur a death penalty without even a hearing as in a case I mentioned.

Do you think a death sentence without any sort of hearing is a good idea?

Well do you?

BTW there are cases of people arrested for intoxication who had not even been drinking?

Think that is a fine idea?

A sometime anchor on CBS News, Hugh Rudd I think was the name, related the story of his being mugged and severely beaten. In his struggles to get home, a cop gave him another blow with his stick thinking Rudd was drunk.

What are you talking about?

I was talking about dealing with DUI.

I don't give a damn what you think about Paris Hilton personally. I frankly haven't thought a lot about her. She isn't worth it IMO.

Best, Terry

Can't Bush pardon her?

Damn, when it comes to justice, Bush can do anything he wants. Declare her an enemy combatant and send her to Gitmo. Or maybe order an extraordinary rendition to Antigua.

It's rather like the Ann Coulter paradox. If we ignore her than she can't have an effect. But if she's not going away when we ignore her than we must engage. Or something. I'm not sure.

Would Harriss Pilton go to jail? I think that there's a very good chance he would. This is not a simple driving offence, this is a repeat offense whose secondary characteristic is that the subject "is not attorning to the jurisdiction of the law."

Look, its very simple. The law would rather not incarcerate people (who are not black) because it consumed time and resources.

Look. Suppose you were charged with beating your girlfriend - simple assault, a criminal offense along the same level of seriousness a drunk driving. As part of your conditions of release, you are forbidden from seeing your girlfriend.

So what do you do? A week later, you head over to her place to hang out. She's got your stuff, your kids are there, you pay the rent anyway...

And you get caught and charged and told not to go over there.

So you show up again, this time with the 'no contact order' in your back pocket. She's changed the locks, so you had to break a window to get in.

Your ass is definitely going to jail, bub. And for a very simple reason:

You won't obey the law.

The whole point of judicial release, bail, probation, the whole nine yards, is that a person is expected to respect the courts orders and direction.

If they won't respect that, then there's no way to control their behaviour.

If you were to look at a lot of the people who are actually in jail awaiting trial, or in jail filling out sentences, you would be amazed to realize how many are imprisoned because they simply could not be bothered to do what the courts ask.

I think Hilton has played on her role as elite princess and that kind of persona usually backfires. Most people don’t personally hate her but detest her being thrust into our consciousness and her flaunting of privilege. From a quick look at reports, she has been given breaks all along, not harsher treatment. She could have gotten six months on the first arrest. She was involved in other incidents with no consequences before being cited twice for continuing to drive.

Almost everyone is connected to someone who has had drug or dinking or some other self-destructive problem. When the unprivileged run up against the legal system, they are smacked in the face with a large blunt instrument. Equal rights require equal justice and treatment under the law. In my town today, a poor schlub with mental issues was given life for assaulting a policeman. He rear-ended the patrol car and later started wrestling with the cop, He was asking the cop to shoot him and tried to get the cop’s gun. The media and community leaders are basically applauding the life sentence.

Hearing of his sentence (a usual one here), I remembered Zsa Zsa Gabor (another princess) striking that cop in the ‘80s. She spent a few days in a jail of her choosing, where she paid for a more comfortable cell and better meals. I believe Hilton was given this option, too. Anyway, no one is beating up on little girls here. But there are poor and ordinary young men and women in prisons and jails throughout the country who will be beaten up or raped or denied medical attention tonight. Do you think there might be a bit of a double standard in the legal system?

During the Great Depression, a pro labor priest in the U.S. purportedly said:

 "We need the Communists to put the fear of God into these millionaires."

:D Ticia

Augustine of Hippo was said to have answered a question of "What was God doing before He created the heavens and the earth?" with "Designing a hell for those who would dare ask such questions." If there is such a god of vengeance, I hope we, in hell, make good use of the time to plan.

Arguably, the quiet supermax may be worse than some rough prison camp, as there is more of a target to hate. Still, there is a reason for religious, and other spiritual, journeys being solitary. One might have a guide, whether Ignatius of Loyola or one's power animal.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Andrew: We were doing fine until just recently - I don't think anything at all about her was posted on TPM Cafe until she was sent back to jail. It must have had something to do with that because suddenly there were several posts here about her. Musta hit some sort of nerve. You aren't the only one!

Know your enemy well, for in the end that is who you become. ~~Old Chinese Proverb

Ok, I read everything down to here - and I don't get it. Somewhere along the way I guess I missed the punch line. What's the joke?

You guys made this Paris Hilton character up - right? She isn't listed at guugle.com. That would be like naming your kid Brooklyn Bridge, or Grand Canyon, or San Francisco. Man, I leave the country for a few months and you guys go off the deep end. We're still in Iraq, people are still talking about hauling wetbacks to Mexico in cattle trucks, and there's a Creationist Museum (for Christ's Sake)! And you guys are dreaming up some character named Paris Hilton! What's going on around here? And what the hell's happened to http://guugle.com, it looks like it got bought out by Fox or something ....

prolonged periods in solitary are psychologically damaging

Yes, that's true about prolonged, solitary confinement.

This is neither prolonged, nor truly solitary confinement. She won't ever commit a crime which would cause that, because she's not stupid whatever else she may be.

If she was an ordinary person, who would be shamed, probably lose their job, maybe friends and family, etc, it would be terrible.

For her, she wants the fame, her friends will love her for it, and she'll step out into a limo to be carried back to one of several mansions to watch media highlights of the last several weeks, where millions of people talking about her while she was away, which to her is probably better than food, sex, drugs, money, or anything. Who knows, maybe she'll read this thread with glee among others, and it will all be more than worth it.

It'll be unpleasant, but to an exibitionist a price worth paying. At least she doesn't have to live in a fishtank for a week, like that one guy did for his 15 minutes, which is actually a lot harder and more dangerous.

Hey, I resent being grouped with the Paris-haters. Nothing I said was factually incorrect. She's not a leader, she's rich, beautiful, and young, and obviously has a taste for exhibitionism.

All of which is just fine with me. In fact, I'm a big Paris defender. Live and let live. She's nowhere near as big a wastrel as some rich kids I've known personally.

FREE PARIS! FREE PARIS! FREE PARIS!

I haven't known anyone to die from "alcohol poisoning" - presumably you don't mean the alcohol was poisoned. :-)

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

If you were to look at a lot of the people who are actually in jail awaiting trial, or in jail filling out sentences, you would be amazed to realize how many are imprisoned because they simply could not be bothered to do what the courts ask.

And if you looked in LA County at the people who are detained at home, released early, or otherwise do not serve their full sentence in the country jail, it includes a lot of people who are in jail because they could not be bothered to do what the courts asked.

Harris Pilton, in the same circumstances, is at home today in home detention with an electronic device monitoring his movements. In the same circumstances, the sheriff probably would keep Harris Pilton in jail for his full sentence if he could, but the county board of supervisors won't build him that many jail cells, so he's got to juggle.

[referring to DTs] May I assume that is preferable to a jail cell that is the recommendation of others?

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

The recommendation of ICU care was for patients with active or threatening DTs, a disease of chronic alcoholism. Had Paris Hilton been at such a disease state...

For the record, I think it is as unlikely that Paris Hilton will suffer from DT's as Cheney is to suffer from a twinge of conscience.

The reference to a recommendation for a jail cell for treatment of DT's was the scoffing by others, not yourself. A former prosecutor seemed to think death as a consequence of withdrawal symptoms was remote.

Sorry, I still feel jail was appropriate.

I haven't disagreed except to the extent of not being in comand of all the facts of what the "medical emergency" might entail.

Was it just a sham? A concocted excuse for those with money?

Or was there something else?

Can you be certain of what the facts are?

CSPAN does something very interesting. It reads a headline and lets callers weigh in with their opinions.

Amazing how many have instant knowledge of the facts.

I am not even sure of the facts after they are revealed to the whole world.

I hope you will have sympathy for such a bizarre medical condition and perhaps suggest a remedy. Maybe taking out a membership in the half-Vast Rightwing Conspiracy would do the trick.

Best, Terry

Your young companion's 'street person friend' is a good example. Systematic and prolongued abuse always leaves signs that are impossible to conceal.

So it is your claim that a decade or two of hard drinking and living on the streets will always be reproduced in all binging teenagers?

I find that difficult to believe. Got any pictures of these teenagers who look to be senior citizens from drinking?

BTW there have been reports of child laborers that have shown age far beyond their calendar years but I doubt that is exactly the same.

Best, Terry

"Systemic and prolongued abuse always leaves signs that are impossible to conceal."

Period. Full stop. End of story.

One binge, two binges, three binges will not leave a person looking thirty years older. A one time, or occasional thing, may not produce visible damage. On the other hand, it won't produce DT's.

On the other hand, a habitual lifestyle of a year or two years of heavy binge drinking will produce visible physical deterioration, some of which can be recovered from, some of which will leave permanent marks.

You don't know what you're talking about, and you're being mischievous.

That's Canada. Maybe California, with its robust car culture, endless freeways, private insurance, et al, has a more tolerant approach to drunk driving and suspended driving. I sincerely doubt it.

You aren't listening. I did not say that sentencing would be any more tolerant in LA County. I said that LA County has not built the jail cells to carry out the sentences that are imposed.

You're arguing that Hilton's incarceration is somehow unfair and inequitable.

No, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that Harris Pilton would not end up being jailed as long as Paris Hilton will be, under restrictions that the judge has placed on the sheriff, preventing Paris from being treated the same as any other prisoner would be.

Show me you have a clue as to what you're talking about.

Show me ... the rates of early release in LA County are common knowledge, e.g.,

Baca has been struggling to deal with jail violence and a lack of staffing that has prompted him to release more than 150,000 inmates early since mid-2002, many of them after they had served less than a tenth of their original sentences. Sheriff's officials have long said that the jail, which was built more than 40 years ago, was not intended to house the serious felons it does today. The best solution, but one county officials say they cannot afford, would be to tear down the jail and build a new one.

U.S. Judge Calls for L.A. Jail Reforms, LA Times, May 12, 2006

Rolling With The Punches:

Valdron:

Withdrawal, particularly cold turkey withdrawal, is often a harsh and unpleasant experience. But normally it does not pose a medical threat to health or life...

Generally, a person whose withdrawal symptoms are fatal or medically critical is usually a physical basket case to start with. They don't look and function like Paris Hilton.

And then:

If there had been any kind of bona fide medical condition of any sort, any medical risk, any real issue, as Howard points out, it would have been brought forward at trial and/or sentencing.

It wasn't.

Ludicrous.

"My client is an addict and therefore isn't guilty." Yeah that would work.

As for Alcohol Poisoning, Howard has spoken to it.

The discussion was not about "alcohol poisoning" but addiction and specifically delirium tremens.

On another occasion in which I was more peripherally involved, a legless man was picked up for public intoxication, taken to jail and kept in the drunk tank where he complained of not feeling well. The next time they checked on him, he was dead. Blood alcohol level of .65.

Doesn't sound like DT's to me but "alcohol poisoning."

"Systemic and prolongued abuse always leaves signs that are impossible to conceal."

Period. Full stop. End of story.

Well sure but it is helpful to know whether one is talking about acute alcohol poisoning or prolonged abuse.

On the other hand, a habitual lifestyle of a year or two years of heavy binge drinking will produce visible physical deterioration, some of which can be recovered from, some of which will leave permanent marks.

Will huh? So now what are we talking about? Are we back to aged teenagers?

You don't know what you're talking about

I see.

Indeed I know nothing about acute alcohol poisoning resulting in death. I have only read about it.

On the other hand I am very familiar with people that had to start the day with a shot when they crawled out of bed; with periodic binge drinkers who could go on trips that could last days, weeks, even months; with soldiers that could drink everclear like it was water; with all manner of disability and finally death from alcohol that some folks only read about. Especially the ones that think there is no difference between acute alcohol poisoning and longterm addiction. Helps to know the difference.

I did not know that there is now IC care for the DT's that is said by some to be able to reduce Valdron's unlikely possibility of a threat to life to 3%. Sometimes old dogs do learn a little. Helps to listen, Valdron, but do as you wish.

Thanks to those who inform rather than disinform. God bless.

Oh yeah. Paris Hilton. Who cares?

Best, Terry

If there had been any kind of bona fide medical condition of any sort, any medical risk, any real issue, as Howard points out, it would have been brought forward at trial and/or sentencing.

It wasn't.

Ludicrous.

"My client is an addict and therefore isn't guilty." Yeah that would work.

Not ludicrous. Diminished capacity due to uncontrollable factors is an issue in many criminal cases. Supposing that a person is taking prescription medication without or over the counter medication without being made aware of synergistic effects. Such a person would be able to argue involuntariness or lack of mens rea for a number of offenses, including potentially driving offenses.

At sentencing, disclosure of conditions like addiction which make a person particularly vulnerable, can have a large effect on sentencing issues. For instance, disclosure of a drug addiction problem might incline a judge to see treatment rather than criminal sanctions as a remedy, or alternatively, to emphasize a treatment and corresponding reduction. Disclosure of a particular vulnerability like a heart condition, diabetes or cancer can result in amelioration of sentence or particular treatment options.

I had a case, for instance, which involved a woman assaulting a child in a department store. She was mildly schizophrenic. It did not diminish her culpability. But on the other hand, it was an important issue for the judge to take into account in crafting an appropriate sentence. Another case involved a bona fide obsessive compulsive shoplifter. Another case involved someone who masturbated compulsively, in a parking lot. I've had several cases where alcoholism and alcohol were factors.

I don't know why you're arguing with me. I've done these cases for a living. It's part of my training. You're just as likely to get somewhere arguing over the contents of my refrigerator.

The discussion was not about "alcohol poisoning" but addiction and specifically delirium tremens.

The discussion involved the potential life threatening medical consequences of addiction. The principal medical threats and threats to life in any addiction situation is overdose - alcohol poisoning and drug overdose.

The issue of medical dangers posed by withdrawal or delirium tremens are orders of magnitude less dangerous and less likely from a treatment standpoint.

Systemic and prolongued abuse always leaves signs that are impossible to conceal. .... On the other hand, a habitual lifestyle of a year or two years of heavy binge drinking will produce visible physical deterioration, some of which can be recovered from, some of which will leave permanent marks.

I consider these words clear and obvious and beyond dispute. Certainly I do not consider that any addiction specialist, medical professional, nurse, bartender, social worker would seriously dispute them. What part do you not understand?

Indeed I know nothing about acute alcohol poisoning resulting in death. I have only read about it.

Funny thing, I've dealt with it first hand.

On the other hand I am very familiar with people that had to start the day with a shot when they crawled out of bed; with periodic binge drinkers who could go on trips that could last days, weeks, even months; with soldiers that could drink everclear like it was water; with all manner of disability and finally death from alcohol that some folks only read about.

Funny thing is, I'm familiar with it myself. Grew up with it. Watched it every day. I saw all of it, from people who poured themselves down the toilet, to functioning alcoholics, to all the rest in between. I've seen the long term effects, the short term effects. I've seen it in just about every context. Because I had a personal interest in it, I read up, I studied. I dealt with it in a dozen different capacities as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney, as a teacher, a journalist, and simply as a volunteer.

Now, you were about to lecture on the content of my refrigerator, too?

proof rests upon the proponent.

that's you.

I say that a Harris Pilton who was white and middle class would be spending time in jail. I also say that a Harris Pilton who was black or poor would be spending a lot more time in jail.

That is a complete non sequitor - the claim that I made, and which I have maintained in the face of fairness arguments and equity arguments and now the introduction of race and, essentially, anything but any evidence to the contrary, was:

Yes ... anyone with that record would have been remanded to home custody with electronic surveillance.

There simply are not enough jails in Southern California to hold all the people caught driving on their first suspended licenses and sentenced to two to six weeks in jail.

If Paris Hilton was Harris Pilton, Harris would be in home custody today.

LA County has a long established program of Community Based Alternatives to Custody, because the County won't spend the money required to incarcerate everyone sentenced to jail ... and this is nothing new:

In response to increased jail populations, probation agencies are working with other criminal justice agencies to develop alternative programs. Many counties opt for increasing the number of community-based alternatives, instead of the rate of incarceration, because the former is a more costeffective means of alleviating jail crowding while maintaining public safety.

In California, the Los Angeles County, probation department joined the sheriff’s department in developing the Los Angeles County Community Based Alternatives to Custody program. Sentenced offenders are screened by probation staff who interview an inmate, obtain and chart a full criminal record, and assess the inmate’s risk level and program placement options, which include electronic monitoring, work release, and work furlough. Inmates with felony or misdemeanor convictions who qualify for program placement are released early from jail. Although detained at home, inmates retain in-custody status until successful completion of their jail term. Program failures are returned to custody and are no longer eligible for CBAC participation. Currently, more than 2,000 inmates are electronically monitored through CBAC.

US DoJ. A Second Look at ALLEVIATING JAIL CROWDING: A SYSTEMS PERSPECTIVE. October 2000 (pdf)

Best, Terry:  Your ONE anecdotal story about a chronic alcoholic who died in custody has NOTHING to do with this case.  When I worked in the ER (my first nursing job) in Fairfax County, Virginia I saw a young girl come in and her head brought in later.  She had been riding on the back of a motorcycle.  You might say I have an abormally negative view of motorcycles.

My mother is dying of lung cancer after smoking for 65 years.  I hate cigarettes.  I have known many narcissists in my life.  I avoid them! 

OK.  My point is this:  We have all heard stories or experienced things that color our view of the world.  Some of those serve to protect us from making the same kind of mistakes, but some really don't translate to the general public.  Your tale of the poor guy who died in custody has nothing to do with Paris Hilton.  If what you say should get her a home pass, it is only because she is tended to at home.  Obviously that "tending" has not protected her up until now.  If what you say should get all alcoholics a home pass it would only increase alcohol consumption because there is nothing at home to keep these people from imbibing.

Do you have a story of someone who went home from jail and got straight?  Now, that is a story that might be relevent.  Someone who went home and didn't drive drunk again.  Didn't kill someone by accident, driving on a suspended license when they could have paid a taxi, except they had gotten the message that laws are for other people.  Not them....

Jan

She is an exhibitionist, but you can bet she didn't want to go to jail.

Of course she'd like to pay the lowest price possible for fame, and if fame and influence were as easy as continually releasing new "leaked" sex tapes, she'd do that. But she has to keep upping the ante to keep people interested doesn't she.

This is not "punishment" for her. It's a cost associated with obtaining a desired outcome. Just as the cost of buying something expensive isn't "punishment" for me if I want it enough, and won't stop me from buying something else I want. Neither will it stop Hilton from making her next "performance" any more than injuries stop daredevils and thrill junkies.

You're really kidding yourself if you think she's not conscious of her cost/reward equation of fame. Everything about her public life has been stage managed, being timed and progressively escalated to stay in the media spotlight. Her "leaked" sex video was anything but an accident. Or, if it was an accident it's one she quickly came to enjoy. though, considering the timing of other leaked sex videos and the way she's taken to fame, it was almost certainly deliberate.

I'm not saying it's completely rational or there isn't some element of craziness to it all. But she's really a bit like Harold's character in Harold and Maude. It's a big crazy game for her, jail time and all.

Sadly, the American people are either FOR or Against Paris Hilton, as if they actually KNOW this woman in any way, shape or form.

I have been hearing the talking head commentaries bashing her as well as common American people for the last week as if these people are her next door neighbor who grew up with her and know ANYTHING about her at all! How sad it is that the United States of America has become a nation where people think because they hear five or six second news clips daily about celebrities that they actually KNOW them in any meaningful way. Now I am willing to admit that I know absolutely NOTHING about Ms. Hilton either way. She may be the world's most spoiled person, or she may actually be a genuinely nice person who cares deeply about others and serious causes and yet puts on an act for the public to further her career as a blond bimbo as SOOOO many actresses have done over the decades.

I guess my point is that I know so many people who care more about the fate of Paris Hilton that they do about their neighbors four houses away who are on the verge of an unnecessary divorce, or the man across the street two houses down who is dying of cancer, or the couple two blocks away with the child with autism that are having a horrible time coping with life!

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO TURN THE TELEVISION OFF AND START GETTING INVOLVED IN OUR GENUINE COMMUNITIES? RATHER THAN THESE FALSE COMMUNITIES WE CREATE ON T.V.? AS HORRIBLE A ROLE MODEL AS PARRIS HILTON IS SUPPOSED TO BE TO OUR CHILDREN, OR EVEN WAY MOR OUTRAGEOSLY AS VIRGINIA TECH WAS, HOW SAD THAT AMERICANS MOURNED FOR WEEKS FOR PEOPLE WHOM WE DON’T KNOW AND WE DON’T HAVE TO ACTUALLY GET INVOLVED WITH PERSONALLY! HOW ABOUT WE ACTUALLY GET TO KNOW, LOVE, AND HELP OUR OWN NEIGHBORS—IN OTHER WORDS WE SERVE OUR OWN COMMUNITIES WITH THE SAME CHARITY AND COMPASSION WE HAVE FOR PAIS HILTON OR VIRGINIA TECH?

Based on these recalcitrant behaviors she deserves to be in the clinker. She continues to drive on an unsuspended license and not go follow up on the classes as the court as ordered. Consequently, the court has responded with incarceration as she is unwilling to obey the law having been treated like the vast majority of citizens who are allowed to go free while on probation, as long as they obey the terms of their probation.

Being stopped twice driving on suspended license when you can hire a chauffeur can even be construed as flouting an unwillingness to obey the law.

There is a narrow line between supportive care and palliative care. The usual distinction is that palliative care are comfort measures for patients not expected to survive, where supportive measures are meant to keep physiological systems running while either the body itself, or external interventions, deals with the disease process. The body itself or the interventions may either remove the disease process, make it harmless to the body (e.g., where immunity develops), or convert from a crisis to a manageable chronic disease.

Take the example of tetanus, which, depending on ICU skills, is 30-50% fatal when not treated. The immediate supportive care required is to stop the convulsions. At the low end of intervention, it may be possible to stop them with benzodiazepines. At the high end, it may be necessary to sedate the patient, administer muscle-paralyzing agents, and provide external respiration through a breathing tube or a surgically created entry to the trachea.

Tetanus antitoxin is given to neutralize the circulating substance that does the damage, and antibiotics kill the organisms that create the toxin. Somewhere in the course of treatment, tetanus toxoid is given to provide future immunity.

With the DTs, supportive measures can control their negative effects until the underlying mechanism heals. Supportive treatment is not always successful, as in the coma outcome at the article to which I link.

As you know sedating a person does not prevent a heart attack, seizure or stroke even though it does make the entire experience much more pallative for the patient.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Assume PH is a chronic alcoholic, and was suffering acute withdrawal with DTs. Why, then, would any sane person discharge her to house arrest, rather than the ICU that would be the standard of care for delirium tremens?

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

Then there would be several alternatives.

1. She is a chronic alcoholic, has DTs, and dies at home


2. In the judge's challenge of the sheriff's action, the sheriff, perhaps in chambers, divulges the reason. Option 2a (Does this thing support nested lists?) is that the judge checks with a doctor and finds she didn't have DTs. Option 2b is that the Hilton lawyers find out, if she was an alcoholic, and sue for endangering her life.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO TURN THE TELEVISION OFF AND START GETTING INVOLVED IN OUR GENUINE COMMUNITIES?

Couldn't the same be said of us here? 

Well, truth be told, I could do without evidence or speculation - a quick bite of schadenfreude is delicious, but the feast is making me queasy.

You can do better than that. How did community involvement contribute to either of those local situations, both of which involved loners that were not part of informal communities, and slipped through law enforcement?

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]