Speaker Pelosi

Of course the Speaker is well within her rights, and tradition, to make herself acquainted with foreign leaders, and in particular to become informed about such problematic areas as the Middle East. The attacks on her are still another attempt to change the subject from Iraq to anything at all.

The subject won't let itself be changed. Senator McCain, who I admire and like in many ways, has, I fear, doomed his campaign by tying himself to the sinking ship of the Iraq war. Governor Romney, obviously the most formidable of the Republican candidates based on brains, money, looks and outside status, runs the risk of making the same blunder. Other Republicans, especially those in the Senate and the House, will find that they simply cannot stay in support of this occupation through November 08. The White House won't like to bring the troop force down, but they will have to start that process before the election. And the Democrats will be obliged to continue to press for withdrawal. All that because of popular opinion. Democracy, for all its flaws, has one big thing going for it: the people feel empowered, and that makes their opinions valuable.


Comments (78)

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This war has been going very badly since fall 2003. Talk about the inevitability of a drawdown has been going on for 3 years now. Many pundits were certain it would happen before the '04 election, then before the '06 midterms.

What makes you think the White House will have to start withdrawing troops before the election? Last time I checked we had a surge. And this week we heard there would be a surge to the surge in '08.

It takes a certain naivete to think Bush/Cheney will listen to Congress. Congress will never cut off funding, so Bush can surge any time any place he wants. Any serious withdrawal of troops under this Administration is most unlikely.

And the Democrats will be obliged to continue to press for withdrawal. All that because of popular opinion.

Is that a Republican talking point? So Democrats will press for withdrawal not because they believe in it but because they'll be "obliged to."

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Why would any sane individual, or any individual who is capable of reading pretend that anything pimped by the fascist warmongers and profiteers has any credibility, or the slightest semblence of validity. The entire upper echelon of the fascist Bush government, from Bush, to Cheney, to Rice, to Chertoff, to Gonzalez, to Gates, et al. are pathological liars. They have not told the truth, or provide any substantive evidence for a single claim they have pimped, - I mean sold, - I mean mass marketed since stealing the 2000 election.

Each any every one of these fascist warmongers and profiteers lie to, and spit in the face of the American people repeatedly and insistantly.

Any America leadership taking any initiative opposed to, in contradistinction of, or conflicting with the fascist policies and costly bbloody, failing machinations of the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government is a marked improvement and welcome CHANGE of COURSE the America people should and I believe tghe majority do applaud, and support.

Bravo Pelosi, All hail Waxman, godspeed Obama!, give em' hell Hilary.

The fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government have betrayed America, perverted our core principles, and castrophically FAILED the people in Iraq, Afghanistan, here in the land of Oz, and beyond.

Impeach all the lying, conniving, fascist warmongers, and profiteers in the Bush government, and quit pretending any of these shaitans have anything worthy of the peoples respect, goodwill, goodfaith, or trust.

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I suspect the reason Reed Hunt believes the administration will begin a withdrawal process before the election is because if they don't, the Democrats strategy "empowering" people by spending 2 years repeatedly voting against the war symbolically while still actually funding it, is going to look rather silly.

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The Bush gang will get themselves out of IRAQ by lying about Iraq, the same way they got themselves into Iraq.

J. McCutchen


I am glad you admire him Reed. John McCain needs all the admirers he can find. Seems the FEC quarterly report combined with the mounting disaster in Iraq has triggered another PTSD episode. Losing two wars and the Presidency where he'd hoped to start new ones, was just too much for him.


The man is mental.

New Strategy: McCain Rolls the Dice
Bets on Winnable Iraq War

Senator McCain, who I admire and like in many ways...

Mr. Hundt's ability to assess character is apparently as impaired as Mr. McCain's ability to assess reality.

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Reed.

Please convince me that I too should like and admire McCain.

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Probably, Mr. Hundt, McCain's admirable qualities include his refusal to pander to passing political trends, his political integrity and his courage. I think most of us have learned that he has zero in all these regards...so certainly at some point tell us what you like about the lying sack of crap. Certainly his latest Big Lie...pretending he freely took a walk in a Baghdad market when he was armed to the teeth is one of the most egregious cases of political deception I can recall. It really is a gross slur and smear on our soldiers at risk. I wouldn't trust McCain to flush toilets. Lieberman and McCain they REALLY deserve each other...who knew?

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Joining the chorus: 

Senator McCain, who I admire and like in many ways...

Really, this whole pretense of showing respect for The Man Who Was John McCain just has to stop.

Who really cares what McCain was? Right now, he's either a liar, or completely delusional about what's going on in Iraq.

Either way, he's allowing more lives to be wasted in a war of choice, and that cancels out any previously admirable qualities.  

 

Dissent Protects Democracy.

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... and then they'll blame the Democrats and the media for the failure of their moronic policy.

Tom

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"So Democrats will press for withdrawal not because they believe in it but because they'll be "obliged to." "


Unfortunately, that seems to be the way some of the more craven Democrats do things.

Tom

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The White House won't like to bring the troop force down, but they will have to start that process before the election. And the Democrats will be obliged to continue to press for withdrawal. All that because of popular opinion.

Mr. Hundt I think you miss one very salient point. Bush will have to bring the troop force down if not end the war altogether because it is degrading the volunteer US Army, Reserves and Guard to the point where it's no longer functioning. The best young officers and noncoms who intended to make the military a career, the men and women who should be the backbone of the services for the next 15 to 20 years are getting out as soon as they can. We're looking at the mid & late 70s all over again and that's a disaster.

Our military wasn't built for a long term occupation of a hostile country. Go look up quotes by Schoomaker and the head of the Reserves form late last year. We have neither the troops or the training to handle it. Most of the anti insurgency lessons learned in Vietnam were dropped with the advent of the Powell doctrine. The fact is nobody prepared for this kind of catastrophic blunder because nobody thought we'd ever have another president who'd get us involved in another one.

It's not just popular opinion that will end this war. It will be the ultimatums the generals give Cheney/Bush that end it. The only way Petraeus is going to see significant progress by September is to lie about it. I doubt that he will.

Now that Al Sistani has come out against letting Baathists back into government I see no way the insurgency is going to end before the US Army has to leave.

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Pelosi's actions were foolish and dangerous. Not to mention her pandering to the muslim world wearing that headscarf was sickening. As a free western woman I was offended. In fact all western feminists should be offended, but they would prefer to compromise their values and ideals in order to curry favor with the muslim world against America and Israel. Here's an excellent analysis of Nancy Pelosi's trip: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1173879256379&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

...The president's criticism was well-founded. By visiting Damascus, Pelosi strengthened Assad's view that the free world has no problem with his behavior. Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem made this clear Tuesday when, speaking to a Kuwaiti newspaper, he said Pelosi's visit proved that Syria's international isolation, which began after Damascus masterminded the February 2005 assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri, is officially over.

Other Syrian officials made clear that far from softening Syria's policies, Pelosi's visit, like those of European leaders, will only toughen Syria's positions. As Imad Moustapha, Syria's ambassador in Washington, put it, "Syria will not hurriedly offer concessions when it refused to offer them under much greater pressure from the United States in the past."

On Wednesday, Pelosi stated triumphantly, "We were very pleased with the assurances we received from [Assad that] he was ready to resume the peace process. He's ready to engage in negotiations for peace with Israel."

Yet this is a lie. Over the past several weeks, it has become abundantly clear that Syria is preparing to attack Israel in the coming months. If Pelosi had bothered to pay attention, she would have noted the terrorists from Gaza, Lebanon and Iraq passing her at the Damascus airport en route to training camps in Syria and Iran.

Unfortunately, Pelosi isn't the only self-declared "champion of peace" who is strengthening Syria's will to attack by appeasing Syria directly or through its master, Iran.

 

Of course the military will lie about seeing progress in Iraq. Nothing has changed that would change their mindset. The military always lies when assessing what they are doing. They even tell us they will lie.

Petraeus is just another general, military to the core. Expecting something truthful from him is like expecting Colin Powell to be honest when addressing the UN.

Hoppy in Sacramento

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Were you offended when Laura Bush wore a veil in a mosque?

Are you offended when a Christian man wears a kippa in a synagogue?

Are you offended when you see Westerners take off their shoes when they enter a Japanese home?

LEL66: I suggest you rename yourself LOL120.

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hoppy Petraeus has his own life, career and reputation to consider. We've seen how loyal Bush is to anybody who crosses him including generals. The last bunch dutifully toed the Bush line that more troops in Iraq weren't needed for years. They were caste aside or booted usptairs when Bush switched gears to the surge in favor of guys Bush found who were willing to give it a shot.

Petraeus has set his own deadline publically, Sept.1, for substantial progress. He knows the score and I doubt he's going to hold out for another year come September if the Iraqi government hasn't passed all or at least some of the 4 benchmarks everybody figures are needed to mollify the Sunnis. Sacrificing the US Army and his own career for Bush's legacy isn't in his best interests. Nobody's gonna want to be holding the bag for Bush at the end.

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On April 7, 2007 - 11:54am LEL66 said:

Pelosi's actions were foolish and dangerous. Not to mention her pandering to the muslim world wearing that headscarf was sickening.

I agree, Pelosi is obviously a communist who sides with the terrorists and wants us to lose the war.

heh heh, ya can't fool me LEL66, you're really TJKING in disguise!

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On April 7, 2007 - 8:43am jexster said:

I am glad you admire him Reed. John McCain needs all the admirers he can find.

Correct, and I'm not one of them. Go back to his "Straight Talk Express" and his "Maverick" reputation, then look at his voting record. He's as close to being right wing as you can get.
Who reported on that voting record when they were riding around with him on his bus?

McCain was a media creation, they fawned all over him with the same gusto they used in attacking Gore for trivialities.

He seems to have fallen out of favor recently, I wonder why.

and

What could we expect of a McCain Presidency?

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Not to mention her pandering to the muslim world wearing that headscarf was sickening.

Tell it to Condi Rice who wears a real hijab covering her head and wrapped around her neck when she meets Muslims instead of a headscarf tied under her chin like a babushka as Pelosi did.

In fact all western feminists should be offended, but they would prefer to compromise their values and ideals in order to curry favor with the muslim world against America and Israel.

Who was that speaking for all Western feminists? Please provide a link for that person's post where they say they have it on good authority that all Western feminists prefer her to compromise our values and ideals in order to curry favor with the muslim world against America and Israel.

And what is this about Pelosi currying favor and compromising values anyway? Her msg to Assad was the same as any American's. Quit making trouble and your life will be easier. That's consistent with Bush's msg. If Assad thought she'd offer him a better deal he knows now that's not happening. Bushies ought to be applauding her visit. So should the Israeli government. But I guess trying to change the subject by making stuff up to criticize Democrats when all the news out there is bad for Republicans is more important than bothering with real foreign policy issues isn't it?

Besides she's not the one who compromises our values by renditioning Canadian citizens to Syria for torture is she? That's really sending the wrong signal about our values donchya think?
Or are you another one of those torture loving psychopaths?

Syria is a tinpot dictatorship, has a dirt poor economy and a third rate Army. Pretending they or Iran are the second coming of Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany is cowardly and stupid.

If you take the time you can look further on this site, where all kinds of Republican congressional leaders from Newt Gingrich to Trent Lott really did undercut Bill Clinton on foreign policy. Repeatedly. Unlike Pelosi. And yes, that really is detrimental to US policy when it happens. It's a major reason Saddam thought he could get away with harrassing the UNSCOM inspectors and Milosevic thought he could get away with trying to ethnically cleanse a million Kosovar Albanaians into the mountains where they'd freeze to death.

I have stopped reading the offensive news, so I guess my view is limited, but I cannot help but think the Bush administration is in total collapse right now.  I keep watching the polls for a sign that his true believers have given up.  I don't understand how he can still have 30-35% support.  The remaining supporters are not in reality.

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On April 7, 2007 - 2:58pm Good 4 A Merica said:

I don't understand how he (Bush) can still have 30-35% support. The remaining supporters are not in reality.

During the Clinton impeachment, Clinton had as high as 67% public support. Subtract a few % ambivalents and you get
less than 30% hard core right wingnuts. They're hopeless.

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What makes you think the White House will have to start withdrawing troops before the election?
He didnt say that at all! This is what he said -
Other Republicans, especially those in the Senate and the House, will find that they simply cannot stay in support of this occupation through November 08.
Although, I agree with your point that this administration has never cared for popularity whether among general populace or their brethren in the Congress. They will carry on until the next administration so that Cheney and his buddies keep making $ off of poor Iraqis and Americans!

This is worse than "hopeless."  Bush is a caricature of a failed dictator.  Cheney is a caricature of a failed enforcer.  It must be hard for the comedians to still make jokes about them, they are jokes in real life.  It is too painful.  If I couldn't bring myself to disapprove, I would say "no opinion."  I cannot see how HE approves of himself anymore.

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The 30% are the racist segment of America brought out of their caves by George Dubya, they are primarily motivated and manipulated by hate.

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The invectives in your post are a bit much but they reveal how pissed you are. Aren't we all.

Warmongering and profiteering seem to be the sole "foreign" policy of this administration but if its players were just a tad intelligent the mess we're in would probably not have been as bad as it is. Example: In 2004 somebody, with Bremer's encouragement, decided Iraq needed a new flag so somebody designed one, blue and white no less (the Israeli flag is blue and white). It flew for one day, Segue to Pelosi. She's got to be smarter and wiser and more diplomatic than anyone in the Executive, so we should welcome her foot in the door of the ME.

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The White House won't like to bring the troop force down, but they will have to start that process before the election.

He said it. And I disagree with that assessment.

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Or maybe I misread "they."
Could be.

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As usual the complicit parrots in the socalled MSM frame Pelosi's meeting with Assad in negative term in blind partisan obediance the the fascist tyrannical dictator commandeering the WH and posing as commander in chief. No where did Nancy Pelosi show any support for Syria (the Walmart of illicit arms trade and terrorist organizations). In fact, Ms Pelosi delivered a message mirroring the fascist tyrannical dictatory, - I mean president. Quoting Pelosi: "On all issues, it was a direct message, very consistant with the Bush administration's..," and "was not always the one everyone wanted to hear." Rep. Waxman "an Israeli advocate" made a "case by case appeal to Mr. Assad on behalf of Syrian dissidents."

Further the Olmert government deviously undermined Ms Pelosi's missive from Israel to Syria, but fully admitted that a communique, or state missive was given to Ms Pelosi to deliver to the Syrian government.

The hypocracy and ridiculousness of the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government whining about Pelosi was exposed by the fact that GOP congressmen Wolf of Virginia, Pitts of Pennsylvania, and Aderholt of Alabama all visited Damascus a week ago, and the GOP fascist Issa of California visited with Assad the day after Pelosi.

With regard to Ms Pelosi's donning a scarf as a show of respect for the nation she was visiting, - the gesture had nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with diplomacy.

Which brings us to the point of the Speaker of the House visit to Damascus - DIPLOMACY. No one is defending Assad, or Syria, but the success of this mission is simply opening lines of communications between the US and regional powers that do now, and will in the future have an impact and influence on America's interests in Iraq, against Iran, and in the entire ME.

Childishly refusing to talk to these powers isolates America, not Syria, or Iran the real winner in Iraq.

Lastly, the mayhem and massmurder operations of 9/11 were Saudi financed and excuted. (15 of the 9/11 mass murderers were Saudi's)

Given that disturbig factbasedreality - when the fanaticus truebelievers and complicit partisan parrots in the MSM deign to challenge the fascist warmonger and profiteers in the Bush government pandering to, cloaking, protecting, and bowing to the oleaginous America haters, jihadist supporters, wahabi backers and America's arch enemies in the House of Saud.

When any of these fanaticus GOP partisans and fascists question or raise issues with Bush and Cheney kissing, holding hands with, and entertaining the Saudi royals on the ranch, - then maybe their hollow complaints about "bad behavior", or "pandering to muslims", or bolstering the image of Syria might hold some water.

Now, - like every single word pimped by the fascist warmongers, profiteers, and pathological liars in the Bush government - not one word is true, or holds the slightest semblance of credibility, or is backed by any fact or evidence, or based in any reality, or worthy of one nanoparticle of the peoples goodfaith, goodwill or trust.

Pelosi is working to advance the best interests of the American people. The fascist warmongers, profiteers, and pathological liars in the Bush government are advancing the interests of select cabals, coteries, klans, cronies, and oligarchs in or beholden to the fascists in the Bush government.

"Deliver us from evil!"

J. McCutchen


The Lies Continue....

The Sunday Telegraph quotes secret MOD planning documents which project that already worn Brit forces will remain in Iraq until 2012.

In a seperate report, MOD detailed its work on flying pigs

Knowingly you can see things giving up on not only Pelosi but the whole house as well. You can justly imagine the worry and limitless unoticed placed opinions. The whole worry of Pelosi not only started on the common ground of a seemless war with no ties to any or all things at all, your not going to notice the way things are giving up on information of said news press area, or tell someone you can hear just about every thing that goes on in the House ethier. Your going to be able to tell the next person that there is a woman in the house and it's going to talk.

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I couldn't find three consecutive words in this comment that made sense.

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Reed,

A lot of people have been bashing you for liking John McCain. I think it may be reasonable to like McCain the person, but McCain the politician has become a train wreck in recent years, as his faux bipartisanship has become exposed.

But I'm a bit more perplexed by the description of Mitt Romney as a "formidable candidate". Romney has never been more than a pundit candidate. Let's face it, he's
a) a Mormon in a religiously intolerant party
b) the former governor of Massachusetts, of all places
c) got a history of supporting abortion rights and the rights of gays

His candidacy has always been DOA.

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Appears to be random text generator so I'm troll rating it. Odd as it has been signed up for more than a year.

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On April 7, 2007 - 8:26pm TonyForesta said:

As usual the complicit parrots in the socalled MSM frame Pelosi's meeting with Assad in negative term in blind partisan obediance the the fascist tyrannical dictator commandeering the WH and posing as commander in chief

I agree that the MSM are simply parrots of the Bush crowd and the right wing. I think where you go wrong is in not naming names.
CNN's Susan Malveaux was especially egregious reporting on the Pelosi trip "a big wet kiss to Assad" as was Jill Dougherty, also of CNN, who all but carbon copied the WaPo's editorial criticizing Pelosi.

Lets see how the Sunday Morning News Shows frame the Pelosi trip.

Again, it's not enough to criticize the "MSM", naming names of newspeople who editorialize or parrot the right wing is important.

I go the extra step and e-mail "journalists" who cross the line from reporting to editorializing or act as stenographers for the right wing.

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C-SPAN just announced the guests on the Sunday morning news shows:

Meet the Press: 3 'reporters' and one right wing 'columnist', Kate O'Bierne.

I see this all too often on news shows.

Flying pigs, as in JSOW?

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Let the pigs fly!" [Engineer for the Joint Standoff Weapon]

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On April 8, 2007 - 2:11am SqueakyRat said:

I couldn't find three consecutive words in this comment that made sense.

I even tried adding punctuation and still got nowhere.

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Meet the Press took on the Pelosi trip. Russert mentioned the WaPo editorial and quoted some of it. The 4 guests also commented. Chuck Todd, one of the guests said: (paraphrase)

'The RNC sent that WaPo editorial to a bunch of newspapers around the country and the right wing noise machine, Limbaugh, Drudge, FOX etc are playing it up pretty good.'

I wonder if Russert or Todd saw the irony in Todd's comment.

Yeah, but don't forget -- as of August, 2006 when he joined, he became a "lifetime member of the NRA." Couple that with being a life-long (2 times, separated by 40 years) hunter, and you've got a viable publican candidate. If the shrub can be idolized for his great "leadership and toughness, and his christian family values," Romney can be anything the GOP dreams up and tells them to believe as well.

Have you heard Pat Buchanan gush about Fred Thompson? "He's got the look, he's got the voice, he's a leader -- did you see him in Hunt for Red October?" It makes me hope that he'll ask Alan Alda to do his open heart surgery some day! What a bunch of deluded imbiciles!

And don't even get me started on Rudy's wonderful "tough on crime leadership" -- it should be renamed "partner in crime!"

Jan Knaus

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On April 8, 2007 - 1:33pm CVille Dem said:

It makes me hope that he'll ask Alan Alda to do his open heart surgery some day!

You get a 9 for this line alone :-)

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Execllent point JohnW1141. Targeting specific propagandists and disinformation warriors - I mean socalled journalists is critical and necessary.

For example, the complicit parrots in the socalled MSM; Blitzer, Matthews, Russert, Katie O'biern, the entire gospel according to Fox disinformation warfare coven, the editorial page of the WSJ, that screeching harpy Coutler, the entire staff of fascist sloganeers in Sun Yun Moons Washington Times, the slime meisters at Drudge, News Max, et al, - are all quick to Brute the satanic shaitan and fascist, - I mean Vice President condemning Pelosi's "bad behavior" on Limbaugh, - but not one of them dares to mention that Limbaugh himself is an exceedingly partisan, racist, fascist, drug addicted, homophobic, misogynous, pathological liar who pimps scurrilous slander, slime, partisan platitudes and hagiography to the dim sheep in redneck America exclusively. No decent American or any individual who is capable of reading listens to, or cares about a single word Limbaugh, or any of his redneck fascist guests spew. Limbaugh has absolutely no credibility, validity, or legitimacy as a journalist. He is a sallacious propagandist, slime meister, and jackass entertainer, - nothing more.

The fact that the fascist warmonger and profiteer Cheney chooses to brute his slime and partisan disinformation on Limbaugh is both telling and disturbing. The VP speaks to the dim sheep truebeliever fanaticus fascists in redneck America exclusively, and obdurately dismisses the majority of Americans who can read, and do not hold the fascist and extreme ideologies favored and pimped by the VP and warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government.

Further, the fact that none of the complicit parrots in the socalled MSM preface their reportage or bother to mention the extreme partisanship and woeful lack of credibility of Limbaugh or Coulter or the gospel according to Fox proves none of them are fair, balanced, or beholden to any journalist ethic or standard.

Lastly, the fascist totalitarian dictator, - I mean papa's boy, warmonger and profiteer - I mean chickenhawk Andover cheerleader - I mean commander in chief besmirching Pelosi for alleged "photo ops" is laughable hypocracy in light of the socalled president Mission Accomplished extravaganza, and holiday visits to the troops with strict orders to behave, or screened and invited audiances and choreographed corporate events.

Until and unless the complicit parrots in the socalled MSM deign to do their jobs, abide by the industry standards of objectivity and ethics, and bother to report the truth and fact that the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government DO NOT HAVE ANY CREDIBILITY, - America does not have any press or fair and balanced journalism.

Nonsense, I found numerous 3 word segments that made good sense. Four words? Well, that would be a challenge.

Hoppy in Sacramento

On Tony Foresta's comment of April 8, 2007 - 2:55pm

During the Vietnam War, one of my jobs required my routinely reading such things as Nhan Dan, the North Vietnamese party journal, and related publications. At best, sorting through the "revolutionary jargon", surging with condemnatory and stilted adjectives, was right up there with a painful session with a dental hygienist.

Nhan Dan has reinvented itself, with a bright, readable, informative web presence. I don't see a single fascist, parrot, puppet, dim sheep, slime, socalled, or chickenhawk. For example, a Foreign Ministry spokesman said, regarding a Congressional visit by Rep. Loretta Sanchez, (D-CA), an activist regarding Vietnamese political and human rights, said,


"Over the recent years, the Vietnam-US relations have seen encouraging progress in various fields. For the sake of promoting co-operative ties on an equal base for mutual benefit and respect, Vietnam always supports exchanges and dialogues between the two countries in an open and goodwill spirit. For this reason, Vietnam and the US have exchanged many delegations at all levels, including delegations from the Congress."

But, I should admit, the vice chair of their foreign relations committee said,

"US Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez did not come to Vietnam to observe and discuss but to follow an activist agenda, set by an extremist minority of her constituents in California, who are mired in the past. It is regrettable that instead of responding to the forward looking but less vocal majority of her constituents, she chooses to remain hostage to the minority. Her gloomy and alarmist statements on the situation in Vietnam were to be expected.

"Gloomy and alarmist" is on the edge of stilted speech, but still isn't quite on the level of

The fact that the fascist warmonger and profiteer Cheney chooses to brute his slime and partisan disinformation on Limbaugh is both telling and disturbing. The VP speaks to the dim sheep truebeliever fanaticus fascists in redneck America exclusively, and obdurately dismisses the majority of Americans who can read

In other words, Mr. Foresta, your insistence on extravagant jargon manages to obscure any detailed message other than your being angry. Many others, including myself, are angry with the Administration, but we are a bit more focused.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

One beautiful spring day, I was giving a seminar in the New York financial district, and decided to get a sandwich and walk around while having lunch. Turning onto one well-known street, I saw, struggling with a pack of slavering toy poodles and Pekinese, a marginally professional dog-walker break into a jog to keep up with the speeding group.

Yes, it is true. With my own eyes, I saw the running dogs of Wall Street.

Great adjectives, though, ain't it. Personally, I just hope I'm wrong about Hell, and Cheney does get a chance to burn there.

I know what you mean. Sometimes it's tough not believing in eternal hellfire. My fantasy is of Cheney descending slowly, slowly and then gradually as his vision sharpens, making out Saddam himself; beckoning Dick with that smiling face as they face what they have wrought together.

Alas, it is not to be, sorry to say.


Jan Knaus

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One expects to be attacked by one's political opposites. The left expects the right to attack using their well honed tools; assertion, lies, dissembling, exaggerations, diversion, straw men and demogoguery.

What one doesn't expect is the subtle bias of supposed objective journalists, the denizens of the main stream media. Whether its Tim Russert asking William Bennett, the guardian of all that is moral, if Clinton's behavior in the Oval Office with Monica upset him, to CNN's hiring of right wing commentators, like Glen Beck or again, William Bennett. CNN is now offering news and right wing commentary.

One should not expect to see panels made up of reporters and right wing columnists, as This Week was for years, notorious for 3 reporters, Brinkley, Donaldson, and Cokie Roberts and one Conservative columnist, George Will.

The latest feeding frenzy of the MSM was the Pelosi trip to the Middle East. What school teaches reporters to editorialize when reporting a story as many on TV did?

If recent history teaches us anything its how readily the "MSM" takes up whatever noise is coming from the right wing. One doesn't have to listen to Rush Limbaugh or read the daily talking points from the RNC, just turn on your TV and tune to a national news channel. The right wing message is subtle, almost subliminal, but its there.

Maybe once you reach national status as a reporter you join a club that is more friendly to Republicans than to Democrats, after all, those with higher salaries are the people Republicans represent.

I don't mind objective stories, or objective criticism from reporters on a panel, but I don't expect criticism/editorializng thrown in when a reporter is reporting the news, as Susan Malveaux did this past week when she claimed Pelosi gave a big wet kiss to Assad.
As she did when she asked the Syrian Ambassador; ""Why should the Americans, or even the international community, see this any more as a political stunt here, a publicity stunt, a big wet kiss to President al-Assad?"

Malveaux should be ashamed of herself
formulating a question in that way.

People like this should be called to account at every turn, they and their network should be bombarded with e-mails and criticized publicly, by name, at every opportunity.

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I'll be satisfied if Cheney gets leprosy.

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Howard, help us out here, decipher Vasquez.

Well, maybe the new grandson will look just like him! That would be worse that Dick getting leprosy!

Jan Knaus

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A thousand pardons if my language offends your sensitivities, or desire for less stilted commentary Mr. hcberkowitz.

I am indeed angry. I am quite concerned about the future my daughter will inherit, and what kind of perverted mangle America we will leave to her generation. So I resort to the most potent language I can muster.

Look up the words fascist, warmonger, profiteer, and chickenhawk, present you definitions for everyone to read, and then I dare you to challenge my use of these terms as not being accurate, appropriate, and descriptive in defining the policies, ideologies, and machinations of the Bush government.

Also, I mirror what has been hurled upon me, and many of my fellow American who are repeatedly and insistantly slimed by the fascist disinformation covens on theright for daring to question, oppose, or dissent with the fascist policies, wayward misdaventures, catastrophic failures, and wanton profiteering of the Bush government.

What is truly stilted, incivilized, unseemly, drenched in partisan hatred, extravagant jargon and offensive - is chickenhawk fascists like the VP, the andover cheerleader posing as president, the smirking partisan attorney general, and all the lying conniving, the complicit parrots in the socalled MSM, fanaticus truebelievers in redneck America, fascists in the republican reich (RNC), and the rightwingideologue propaganda, disinformation, and slime covens -is sliming our fellow Americans and me personally as unpatriotic, anti-American, not supportive of our troops, supporting the evildoers, or giving aid and comfort to the enemy for daring to question, oppose, or dissent with the deceptive, abusive, failed ideologies, policies and machinations of the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government.

Excusing, defending, or apologizing for the stilted language and extravagant jargon of the Bush government sloganeers, and then heaping derision on my pedestrian commentary is the height of hypocrisy and conduct unbecoming.

If you take issue with my message or the issues related to my commentary, - I will accept your criticism, - but your distaste for, or personal opinion of my language are of absolutely no relevance to me.

While one may lose body parts with leprosy, one of the characteristics is that the affected parts feel no pain.

No, I think having his spirit housed in a succession of undead clerical worker bodies, magickally compelled to type, polish, reproduce, and distribute liberal policy papers to a press corps adoring of their message, and condescending to tell the menial how insightful are Cheney-zombie's betters.

The undead bodies, of whatever gender presentation, should be sufficiently "cute" that they are assumed to be eye candy and never taken seriously. There is a place for sexual harassment, as long it is never quite actionable by Cheney, but drawn to Dick from competent people.

We would not, however, have Cheney learn its place and find this tolerable. Periodically, he could animate the physical construct of an undocumented household worker being exploited by the spawn of Pat Robertson, et al.. There could be a wide range of exploiters, as long as they are Right.
--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

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OK, how about this; if re incarnation is real, I hope Cheney comes back as a urinal.

Twice as the same thing?

The danger of having two is that if GWB is reincarnated, without having appropriate advisors to do the Deciding, is that he would make a mess by the time he made up his...mind.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

A village idiot in smock and straw hat, red cheeks, straw in mouth, sitting on a wall, making funny noises and rolling his eyes.

Voice Over Arthur Figgis is an idiot. A village idiot. Tonight we look at the idiot in society.Cut to close-up of Figgis talking to camera. Very big close-up losing the top and bottom of his head.
Figgis (educated voice)Well I feel very keenly that the idiot is a part of the old village system, and as such has a vital role to play in a modern rural society, because you see ... (suddenly switches to rural accent) ooh ar ooh ar before the crops go gey are in the medley crun and the birds slides nightly on the oor ar ... (vicar passes and gives him sixpence) Ooh ar thankee, Vicar ... (educated voice) There is this very real need in society for someone whom almost anyone can look down on and ridicule. And this is the role that ... ooh ar naggy gamly rangle tandie oogly noogle Goblie oog ... (passing lady gives him sixpence) Thank you, Mrs Thompson... this is the role that I and members of my family have fulfilled in this village for the past four hundred years... Good morning, Mr Jenkins, ICI have increased their half-yearly dividend, I see.
We see Mr Jenkins pass, he is also an idiot, identically dressed.
Mr Jenkins Yes, splendid.
Figgis That's Mr Jenkins - he's another idiot. And so you see the idiot does provide a vital psycho-social service for this community. Oh, excuse me, a coach party has just arrived. I shall have to fall off the wall, I'm afraid.

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What I find particularly objectionable about the "big wet kiss" question is just how juvenile it is. How are young people going to ever respect journalism when there are partisan stooges on TV asking questions that display the maturity level of thirteen-year olds.

That there are so many of these people in positions of influence is deeply disturbing.

J. McCutchen

ROFL MAO

J. McCutchen


Frank Rich's obit with internal links!!!!


Sunday in the Market With McCain


John McCain's April Fools' Day stroll through Baghdad's Shorja market last weekend was instantly acclaimed as a classic political pratfall. Protected by more than a hundred American soldiers, three Black Hawk helicopters, two Apache gunships and a bulletproof vest, the senator extolled the "progress" and "good news" in Iraq. Befitting this loopy brand of comedy - reminiscent of "Wedding Crashers," in which Mr. McCain gamely made a cameo appearance - the star had a crackerjack cast of supporting buffoons:(!!!!) Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who told reporters "I bought five rugs for five bucks!," and Representative Mike Pence of Indiana, who likened the scene to "a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime

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"....a crackerjack cast of supporting buffoons..."


The only one missing was Sean Hannity

J. McCutchen

Bush and his claque - the incredible shrinking Clash of Civilizations crowd - would do well to spend less time slimin, giving Speaker Pelosi a few days extra coverage for doing what Poppy's rescue squad urged, and more time on Plan B.


As Muqtada puts thousands into the streets of Najaf to demand US withdrawal, 10 U.S. troops died in Iraq; 6 on Easter Sunday.

If reports that Sistani and Sadr have reconciled or at least arrived at a modus vivendi, I fear that Bush is just one fatwa away from his own Operation Anabasis by which time his only remaining supporters may indeed be Barney and Laura.

By then I imagine Bush will heed the wisdom of Juan Cole,the ISG, the Council on Foreign Relations,and a host of other experts (not to mention the American people) and will set a new "course" of diplomatic engagement, and US military disengagement


By then American combat capability and diplomatic influence will have sunk below even today's historic nadir.

I can't tell what your message or issues are, since they are so lost in your angry, cliche-ridden bombast. Adults usually decide if they want to convey a message, or merely indulge in temper tantrums. You appear to have chosen to do the latter, at the expense of actually communicating.


Look up the words fascist, warmonger, profiteer, and chickenhawk, present you definitions for everyone to read, and then I dare you to challenge my use of these terms as not being accurate, appropriate, and descriptive in defining the policies, ideologies, and machinations of the Bush government.

Consider yourself dared to use terms that would be remotely acceptable, for example, in Articles of Impeachment. Consider yourself a charter member of the Department of Redundancy Department for "policies, ideologies and machinations". Consider yourself overflowing with adjectives and failing to describe impeachable offensives. Consider yourself as great a source of cliches as Dick Cheney.

Consider yourself someone who won't accomplish anything in correcting the things you most dislike. Pat Robertson and Ann Coulter have better scriptwriters for their spew.

Apparently, you have no desire to be of relevance to the democratic process, as it actually is, as opposed to how you would like it to be an expression of guerilla theater. Your "pedestrian commentary" is about as relevant to the electorate as seven-inch ballet boots are to running marathons.



It's...interesting...to find a man whose command of the English language causes him to lead it into suicidal charges.


--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!
DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!
DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you here that, eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me, you saw it didn't you?

J. McCutchen

I'm with LEL.

We're sick, and we are ever so tired tired of Appeaser Pelosi and her pandering peace pansies

(Gen Patton YouTube)

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On April 8, 2007 - 6:47pm Rick said:

What I find particularly objectionable about the "big wet kiss" question is just how juvenile it is.

Truly, and Malveaux is supposedly a professional.

I can see him now... remember the scene with Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove? Riding the Bomb on the way down? When I clicked on this link, I saw two excellent A Bomb riders. Maybe they could go help North Korea with their tests.

But of what profession?

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"prostitution could not possibly be the oldest profession since payment presupposed the existence of an earlier profession which generated profits to pay for the services of the prostitute." [Bertrand Russell]

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heh heh heh

Howard strikes again :-)

Yeah, it's so much better over there with Warmonger Bush and his Bumbling Bombing Buddies!

Great link, by the way! I had written you an insulting post until I saw it!

People put Pelosi down because there isn't enough money in peace for billions to be stolen -- the REAL money is in being a war profiteer.

Jan Knaus

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While I appreciate your attention hcberkowitz, your opinions, like most of your flowery and tepid commentary are on no interest to me.

My challenge was for you to define terms, which you obviously declined to do, so your cloaked insults and faux dares are moot. But I am curious what exactly is the "Department of Redundancy Department"?

As for impeachable offense, - this list is long and festering.

We can begin with spiriting 140 Saudi nationals, including bin Laden family member around and eventually out of the country in the dark hours and days after 9/11 when all Americans were grounded.

We can examine in earnest, (as opposed to the usual partisan whitewash) the wargames (Vigilant Guardian, Vigilant Warrior, Northern Guardian, Northern Vigilance) ongoing that curiously mirrored the Saudi government funded, nurtured, and executed mass murder operations of 9/11.

{As a sidebar, - the entire 9/11 narrative is hollow and false, and needs to be thoroughly investigated and vetted. Once that happens there will be plenty of impeachable offenses to bring to bare on the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government.}

Any real investigation (which Rep. Waxman of Los Angeles is determined to investigate) of the OSP/OSI/WHIG cabals superceding the intelligence apparatus, and pimping, - I mean mass marketing, - I mean selling a festering litany of conjured fictions, myths, exaggerations, uncorroborated, unvetted, single sourced, cherry picked, Chalabi concocted, dodgey, hype and patent lies the intentionally DECEIVE the American people into supporting the bloody costly, noendinsight horrorshow and excuse for wanton profiteering in Iraq.

Then there is the CPA woeful lack of accounting the mysterious loss of $9bn, (that is nine billion) of the peoples dollars in the socalled reconstruction process in Iraq.

We can re-visit the perverted abuses of Abu Ghaib, and Gitmo, and the mangling and - unilateral redefining the the Constitution in the Bush government inquisitions and kangaroo court machinations in prosecution of socalled 'evildoers".

We can examine the rendiion policies, and the Bush governments' unilateral dismissing of habeaus corpus and due process precedents.

We can examine the Bush government "apparat" and use of information warfare (disinformation, propaganda, perception management, and information dominations operations) against the American people.

We can examine the NSA, FBI, CIA, and whoknowswho in our own government spying on Americans with out review, recouse, or remedy for abuse.

We can examine the wanton profiteering and the billions of the peoples dollars secretly funneled into cabals, coteries, and cronies in the PRIVATE MILITARY INDUSTRY who are repeatedly awarded openended, nobid, multi hundred million dollar contracts, without accountability, review, recource or remedy for abuse all of whom have tentacles rooting deep into
cronies and oligarchs embedded in the Bush government.

I could go on for pages providing examples of abuses that would warrant investigation and impeachment.

But you are not really interested in accountability from the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government. Your insidious job is to undermine, dismiss, and slime the messengers demanding this accountability. Have at it brother, for we, and I will not be silenced, and the commentaries you obdurately dismiss today as "guerilla theater" and as relevent as "seven-inch ballet boots are to running marathons." will be the threads forming the ropes that will hang the fascist warmongers and profiteers currently perverting, betraying, and destroying America.

"Deliver us from evil!"

Howard Much as I appreciate cutting whit, I am afraid this will degenerate into a shit throwing contest worthy of chimpanzees. Reason is not going to win this war of bombast, unfortunately. Needlenose quoted daily Kos a short while back about failings in human psychology that are going to pervert democratic process by brainwashing techniques. I do wish that was hyperbole.
The Wikipedia entry for the "Overton Window" will give you a starting point. I have provided some leads on my Blogroll under the header "Intel" - although there are a few unrelated posts.
Feel free to use comments.
I finally responded to your inquiry on my site. I suspect conversation would be easier to continue at a place more likely to be monitored regularly by one of us ( I haven't been a loyal TPM participant )

But I am curious what exactly is the "Department of Redundancy Department"?
Yes, your curiosity rather confirms my suspicions of your experience with subtle writing...if WC Fields can be considered subtle.
As for impeachable offense, - this list is long and festering.
Very few Congressional investigating committees start on things because they are "festering". While you appear not to have noticed it through your vitriol, I have repeatedly called for systematic investigations, by assorted committees with appropriate jurisdiction, along the same lines that built the public sentiment that Nixon had to go. Rushing into an impeachment hearing, without ironclad groundwork, is a fine way to leave the Administration in power.
Adjectives don't do it for investigations. Are you bothering to send specific recommendations to your own Congressional delegation?
Any real investigation (which Rep. Waxman of Los Angeles is determined to investigate)
Waxman is investigating his own investigation?
of the OSP/OSI/WHIG cabals superceding the intelligence apparatus, and pimping, - I mean mass marketing, - I mean selling a festering litany of conjured fictions, myths, exaggerations, uncorroborated, unvetted, single sourced, cherry picked, Chalabi concocted, dodgey, hype and patent lies the intentionally DECEIVE the American people into supporting the bloody costly, noendinsight horrorshow and excuse for wanton profiteering in Iraq.
Run out of breath? Mass marketing isn't what gets investigating. A fine start would be something specific, which might well have to be done significantly in executive session, such as Feith's interference with the process of intelligence estimates and the net assessment process, encouragement of these actions by Cheney and Rumsfeld and their staffs, and identifying the intelligence reports they blocked because they did not support the PNAC agenda.
We can examine the NSA, FBI, CIA, and whoknowswho in our own government spying on Americans with out review, recouse, or remedy for abuse.
Shall we, then? I'm just a beginner, as opposed to you, in the legislative history that led to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the pen register provisions of the Communications Act of 1934, and the court decisions about the expectation of privacy in call records as opposed to call content. We could look at violations of Section 203 of the PATRIOT Act, the issues of Administration compliance with Sections 206 and 213, and then wander off into why this went into a trumped-up PATRIOT Act, based on emotion, than properly as a technological update of the Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA).
We could look at the history, easily going back to Vietnam, of intelligence analysts being overloaded by collection efforts, because the promotions in the intelligence community tend to go to collectors rather than analysts. I would be happy to discuss the dubious technical presentation of traffic analysis and contact tracing based on the CDR information that was captured by government request without warrant. While it is not statutory, we could look at the history of USSID 18 and the protections of civil liberties that it was intended to provide.
But painstakingly building a case isn't your style, is it? It's to call names and expect other, more mature, people to do the actual work.
But you are not really interested in accountability from the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government. Your insidious job is to undermine, dismiss, and slime the messengers demanding this accountability.
Oh no, indeed, I couldn't possibly be interested in accountability, if I'm doing silly things like examining the legal basis of communications intelligence and how the Administration, without reasonable expectation of getting useful information, produced far more events than the FBI has the personnel to investigate. I couldn't possibly point to violations of the National Security Act of 1947, the questionable legal basis of unitary authority, the statutory role of Congress abandoned to accept the AUMF without serious debate, the creative interpretation of ex parte Quirin, or anything else that is dull, boring, and specific.
My insidious job, of course, is not to deter insightful people, such as yourself, from jumping up and down and hoping to find a conspiracy under your bed. My insidious job, as a citizen, is to help inform regarding the relevant violations of law and of Constitutional authority, as well as the ill-advised overriding of history, strategic thinking by other than ideologues, experience with occupations, and the social systems that have little chance of leaping into Jeffersonian democracy.
I am not your brother. I am a responsible citizen, and I suspect I will get more done to effect real political change and protection of constitutional rights than your hysterical and content-free messages.
I could go on for pages providing examples of abuses that would warrant investigation and impeachment.
But you haven't, have you? -- Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"...a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
[Macbeth, Act V, Scene 5]

Howard,

You are behaving badly. Take your marbles and go fight someone who deserves it. You don't like his prose. So what? You don't like his adjectives. So what? Get over it. So far, he has been, I agree -- redundant. You are have been the same with your criticisms (redundant, that is). Not a crime in his case OR yours. He hasn't said one word that wasn't true, even if he's used the same words a few times.


I don't know what Tony has triggered in you, but I beg you -- let it go. He is not the enemy, and he is pissed, and is right to be so. Get off your high horse and pick on someone who deserves it.

PS, I kind of like the way he makes this phrase sound like one word:

the fascist warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government...

It has a kind of ring to it, don't you think? Sorry, I guess not! Matter of opinion I guess.

Jan Knaus

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A thousand thanks CVille Dem and opit and Mr. hcBerkowitz for the insightful commentary. I am redundant, because from my humble perspective, - nothing seems to be changing, and the Bush government continues virtually unabated mangling, perverting, betraying, and destroying the Constitution, America, and the core principles upon which this nation was founded.

I believe we have more in common, and share more of the same beliefs and dread concerns than you may care to admit Mr hcBerkowitz.

At the end of the day, we're on the same side of the fense. I just jump up and down more, and speak more redundantly than you.

I hope the Obama administration extradites him to Germany.

There are strange timings in life. Just as I listened, on my car radio, to Gerald Ford being sworn in as President, I realized I was driving past the Watergate, and how appropriate that was.

Chief Justice Burger muttered something just after completing the oath, and it happened to be audible. For some reason, it has been little mentioned. Burger muttered "It worked. The system worked."

On one level, it was worrisome that the Chief Justice of the United States of America would doubt that the system could work, and, on another level, it was warming that one in his lofty position obviously believed deeply in the principles of Constitutional government.

It happened, while I was still an idealistic youth, still in lust with Dagny Taggart, and the Republican party had not been overtaken by would-be theocrats and opportunists, that I was research director for the DC Nixon campaign. I believe the statute of limitations now applies, thirty-odd years later. We certainly didn't expect to win the District, but our campaign was funded by some national Republicans of liberal bent, who recognized the DC State committee had become an embarrassment, and that perhaps the campaign team could get rational control. That didn't happen.

Nevertheless, I remember the night of the Watergate burglary. As the news broke, the campaign staff was meeting, and everyone, all experienced in campaigns, said, with one voice, "Nahhh. John Mitchell isn't that stupid. Why would anyone, in their right mind, burgle a party headquarters?" Alas, we were dealing with people not in their right minds.

Over the ensuing months, we watched Sam Ervin carefully build a foundation for impeachable acts. As things such as the Huston Plan came to light, I had an opportunity to debate John Charles Huston, with the sponsorship of some libertarian elements.

I believe that the American system is self-correcting, although it can take time, and things including the greatest strategic blunder in American history, a pattern of misrepresentation sadly not limited to one Administration, but probably the greatest contempt for the Constitution of any Administration. I also believe that the correction must be done carefully, calmly, but inexorably, to build a national consensus that this has gone too far. I don't have a dread concern that the system cannot correct, if we use experience hard-won with Nixon and LBJ, with Oliver North and G. Gordon Liddy.

From a standpoint of political theory, I can go back to Hegel and the Leader Principle to see some of the things that seem to motivate Cheney and Bush. Long ago, I concluded that if there were ever tyranny in this country, it would come from an authoritarian faction trading on fear. Once I realized that, I studied the rise of the Nazis in great depth, as well as the Italian and Spanish groups properly and precisely called fascists, the imperialist drive of Japan, and the Great Terror by which Stalin consolidated power.

I know enough of American opinion, however, to realize that the center, the part of the electorate that must buy into a major change of government, is not going to be convinced by cries of fascism or revolutionary jargon. Regardless of motivation, they tend to be as repulsed by guerilla theater as they are by Fred Phelps and his crew of things that crawled out from under rocks.

There has been enormous change in turning out both Republican chamber majorities, but the recovery will not take place overnight. I cringe when I hear radical rhetoric, really no better than the soundbites of Karl Rove, and how it can be counterproductive in building consensus.

It is my sincere hope, Mr. Foresta, that you select some specific aspect of the Administration's misdeeds, and use any specialized knowledge you may have, such that you might be able to bring insights to the growing force, if that is no more than writing and otherwise appealing to your Congressional delegation. Remember, the Articles of Impeachment, if necessary, will have to come out of the House. As with Nixon, it is conceivable that various people in power will see the growing storm and, in the quaint phrase of the German Army, draw the necessary conclusions.

I have a certain expertise that can apply to the strategic aspects and privacy violations, with technical aspects of both. Still, I will write the letters and find the leverages to encourage Congress.

In my communications, I hope to be clear and compelling, but never excited. My philosophy in approaching those who have trashed Constitutional principles is drawn from 17th century Japan: "The secret teaching of the Itto Ryu school of Kendo, Kiriotoshi, is the first technique of some hundred or so. The teaching is "Ai Uchi", meaning to cut the opponent just as he cuts you. This is the ultimate training... it is lack of anger. It means to treat your enemy as an honored guest. It also means to abandon your life or throw away fear." [Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings]. I also learn from Winston Churchill.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite." [Winston Churchill, regarding his formality in Britain's declaration of war on the Empire of Japan]

I am afraid, Jan, that phrases like that may resonate with some, but will be counterproductive in building a national political consensus that this insanity must stop.

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"In every pain let this thought be present, that there is no dishonor in it, nor does it make the governing intelligence worse. Indeed, in the case of most pains, let this remark of Epicurus aid thee, that pain is neither intolerable nor everlasting - if thou bearest in mind that it has its limits, and if thou addest nothing to it in imagination. Pain is either an evil to the body (then let the body say what it thinks of it!)-or to the soul. But it is in the power of the soul to maintain its own serenity and tranquility, and not to think that pain is an evil. . . . It will suffice thee to remember as concerning pain . . . that the mind may, by stopping all manner of commerce and sympathy with the body, still retain its own tranquility." [Marcus Aurelius]