Actually, the freefall in the subprime lender market is already having an effect on the stock market. Just look at what happened today.

Satellite Sky Blog

Find the Truth. Do Justice.

Each small percentage change represents hundreds of thousands of American families struggling to pay their bills. The moral challenge this puts before us should not be ignored.

I think the moral challenge is really putting those in jail who:

a) tried to systematically inflate assessments;

b) found ways to give cash back at closing;

c) lied on "stated income" loans;

d) implied that "creative financing" was more than just a carrot;

e) failed to tell people that renting was a better choice than buying;

As one who tries to live "below my means" and "in harmony with nature," I see no moral imperative to worry about families who did something stupid... because their children aren't going to enjoy economic prosperity doing stupid things either.

I think that Christopher Dodd wants to bail out "subprime mortgages" because, as they say, he doesn't want them to turn into "junk bonds" because overcharging the poor for being poor is a very lucrative business....

We lost our home several years back because we could no longer make the payments after illness and job loss drastically reduced our income.

It is a problem that is widespread, and the MSM isn't doing anything to put a human face on the problem. Thanks for putting this out there for discussion.

while I wish Sterling Newberry was around to do triage, I sort of wonder if mortgages are part of economic warfare. for example, if the Chinese have a trillion US dollars, and we create a trillion dollars of "housing wealth," then the Chinese have only $500 million after inflation. i sort of see this same trade problem between the US and the mideast since all our dollars wind up over there and i think ethanol is a way to funnel oil through big ag and generate dollars over here to balance what winds up over there-- at least, that's what I think economists try to do when they "design economies."

mcs, I apologize for not stating my point more clearly, but my intent was that while the MSM acts as a mouthpiece for the Bush administrations pretense of a bouyant economy, most Americans are not sharing in it.. and in fact the reality, if covered honestly by the MSM would do much to dispute the false claims of the administration. Especially to those next in line for the chopping block.

I remember a media that did a better job reporting the realities. Journalists who weren't so disconnected and removed from average Americans. We need to get back to a media that serves the public interests.. that was what I was trying to relay. Thus my appreciation for this topic of discussion.

I remember when bankruptcy reform legislation was going through the congress we heard that the majority of people who filed for it was because of illness, job loss or divorce. I can't remember the exact figure, but it was significant. No one plans illness, but it happens a lot more than you think, including to young healthy people. So many of us are one, two or even three paychecks away from our lives falling to pieces. Here is what happened to my family.

My husband had a good union job, he was an AFSCME member. We had one child, I worked as well. By '93, our rent had increased dramatically, we lived in a tenement apartment, and as we had savings and felt secure, we decided to purchase a small, modest home in a slghtly better neighborhood. We received a low income mortgage, with an interest rate that would not exceed 6.50% interest rate. We weren't even paying more than what our apartment rent had been.

We didn't vacation, we were pretty darned frugal. Our one luxury the entire time was a home computer for our daughter. We had one old car that we'd purchased used.

Once my daughter was in jr. high I got a tech certification (no degree) and had a decent paying job at Fleet Bank. Our sole focus was helping our daughter to get the best education she could and eventually get into college.

In 1996, my husband was diagnosed as needing an organ transplant, but he was still in the early stages and was very healthy. In fact we had no idea he was even ill, he felt and looked as healthy as a horse. He took care of himself, didn't drink or smoke. We were told it could take three or four years for his name to reach the top of the list and get the transplant, but there were no guarantees. They are very straightforward with you. They also tell you that if you lose your health insurance and do not get on medicare or medicaid, you will be removed from the transplant waiting list.

In 2000 my husband's employer found out about my husband's condition and started harassing him. Even being a union worker did not help protect him from this. He withstood it for about ten months, by which time he was diagnosed with severe depression brought about by the fear of what losing his job and health insurance would bring. I took the Family and Medical leave act to care for him, during this brief time Fleet was taken over by Bank of America (none of the workers saw this coming) and my job was lost due to downsizing. My husband was terminated in 2001.

His doctors dumped him as he had no health insurance, and because we had a car they claimed was worth at least four thousand dollars, refused to provide him with medicaid. I fought for two years and got him on medicare. Not even the specialists at the public hospital would take him as we had no supplemental insurance, despite how sick he was.

I got another job, though I wasn't paid as well. We struggled and managed to keep the house up until 2003, and it was foreclosed. We never declared bankruptcy.

Up 'til spring of '06, the only medical care he received was from a GP. At the end of May he was hospitalized for what we thought was something minor. They diagnosed cancer, Burketts Like Lymphoma in a very advanced stage. We were told by the oncologist, if he had been seeing the specialist he needed, even without testing for cancer, it would have been diagnosed earlier at a far more survivable stage. He received one dosage of chemotherapy and died three weeks after the diagnosis.

This is happening all across the country to people every day. Even middle class people have lost jobs, or been diagnosed with critical illnesses who have never experienced a lacking of health care are feeling this pain. You have to be wealthy to be immune from this. It's destroying lives.

are people "stupid" for getting sick??

the word "stupid" is certainly a loaded word but I don't see why people would ever assume a mortgage that requires a road "without bumps" through life.

the mexican immigrants, i'm told, live one family per room.

if that "quality of life" sounds terrible, and you "supersize" your living space, then you're taking on additional risk.

I hope [that] it never happens to you, don't think "living below your means" will save you when you're looking at a few hundred thousand in non-covered medical expenses.

I know the statistics regarding medical issues, and the associated risk of going bankrupt, but in this housing bubble, people are clearly getting mortgages they can't afford.

I save 50 to 60 percent of what I make because I know that, one day, I'll be footing a big health bill.

As one who tries to live "below my means" and "in harmony with nature," I see no moral imperative to worry about families who did something stupid... because their children aren't going to enjoy economic prosperity doing stupid things either.

I suppose it shouldn't be surprising to see spoiled upper-middle-class hippies join ranks with the financial fat cats.

Whenever I hear people say crap like "in harmony with nature", alarm bells go off. I think: "That person wants to steal our prosperity."

People who "have prosperity" usually take it from someone else...

When I say "in harmony with nature," I'm suggesting "be happy with what you have."

I heard on 'Guns and Butter,' a popular KPFA show, that the US would ask the arabs to buy the bad loans to keep the market going... it sounded reasonable because they have such a big trade surplus, I imagine, that they can easily absorb the loss since their income stream is spread over the entire population.

Life is getting interesting! whoa, whoa!

believe me, my life has sucked many times! I used to have no health care and I worried all the time. After I stopped worrying, my life got better! It was a really hard thing to do. Hell, I even forgave George Bush because, being selfish, I didn't want to spend another minute being angry at him.

People who "have prosperity" usually take it from someone else...

It doesn't have to be that way. Many Western societies are equally prosperous (perhaps more so) and far more equal than the United States. It is a combination of jingoism and ignorance that makes many Americans think they have the best of all possible socioeconomic systems.

When I say "in harmony with nature," I'm suggesting "be happy with what you have."

If everyone thought that way, we'd still be living in caves. We can do better, and we must.

This lastest problem shouldn't suprise anyone. Once a decade bankers demonstrate they can be pigs and stupid at the same time. Especially when there is a lot of money floating around.

There are people who shouldn't be loaned money especially when interest rates are rising. However, there is always someone who can't resist taking the risk to make the profits that come from charging premium interest rates for sub-prime loans.

If Congress gets involved as Dodd seems to want to do a problem for a relatively few families and a handful of piggish lenders can be turned into a crisis. If borrowers who can't repay loans are somehow protected from the dangers of borrowing then who won't lend to them? This is how the S&L Crisis occurred.

Daniel A. Greenbaum

If everyone thought that way, we'd still be living in caves. We can do better, and we must.

It all depends on what you love. I think nature did pretty well without man's intervention.

Some people use labels like "third world country" even though, before we "improved them," they didn't have the pollution, environmental and the other problems we have.

When I see the McMansions built on farmland and/or wetlands, I don't think immediately: "that's an improvement over what was there" instead, I think: "that's an abombination." Some like the SUV culture, others don't.

Re: I think nature did pretty well without man's intervention.

Humankind and all it does is as much a part of nature as any daffodil, piranha or earthworm.

A civilized society would provide social safety nets to protect families in such circumstances.

What does this mean, joshua? 80% of our federal budget is spent on social safety nets, already. There's a nasty insinuation here, but I'll give you a chance to explain yourself.

80% of our federal budget is spent on social safety nets, already.

I don't think this statement is right. Interest payments on the national debt take up, I think, one-third of the national budget alone. Then military spending takes up probably another one-third. That, at best, would leave 33% of the federal budget for "safety nets."

I am wondering where you get the 80% number from. Some conservative think tank? It sounds like something they would say.

Satellite Sky Blog

Find the Truth. Do Justice.

much of which has nothing to do with social safety nets.

I suppose that it depends on what your definition of "safety net" is-- as Bill Clinton might say.

To some, having the military around, to save their asses, is a safety net. To others, military spending is their "safety net" because it's the goose that lays the golden egg.

The debate about how the government should "spend money " is ageless and the debate about what's pork and what's not will never end...

I suppose that it depends on what your definition of "safety net" is-- as Bill Clinton might say.

There is some room to debate on the margins, but it's not really that difficult to define what constitutes a safety net and what doesn't.

To some, having the military around, to save their asses, is a safety net.

If we were concerned with protecting our asses, we'd only need to spend enough to maintain our nuclear deterrent. That, plus 300+ million privately-owned firearms scattered around the country, is sufficient to deter any sane adversary.

Everything else is for empire. You might be in favor of that, but at least be honest about it.

Farm subsidies act as a shield against the boom and bust cycles food prices would normally be subjected to in their absence. Stable food prices help the lower classes the most. America has lower food prices than any Western country i've visited. You get sticker shock in a country like Switzerland, for example.

It doesn't surprise me to hear you argue for more money to be spent, but I've added up my taxes from federal down to my painful property taxes, and I'm paying as much as I am willing to pay. I think I speak for most middle-class Americans as well. You've got an uphill battle selling that idea.

These programs may or may not be wise, but they're certainly not what most people would consider a safety net.

You just seem to have one definition of saftey net. Profit, in my mind, is a safety net because I over charge you so I can put money in my bank account for leaner times. The politics of wages often seems centered on a living wage and people like myself try to set prices beyond the living wage and use the excess as a safety net. of course, I could also gamble it away!

As much as it takes.

Resources are limited and that's what we fight over. The WallStreet Journal has written that veterans will bankrupt our country so there will be a "happy medium" between taking care of them and taking care of the others.

I'm a pacifist because I don't believe that wars are moral. If people go to war, they suffer the consequences of their immorality.

In my mind the end, the fully cared for soldiers, doesn't justify the means-- the war that created the "philanthropic opportunity."

the results are what matters.

Right, and we all try our best and none of us live up to the moral ideal...

We had MortgageIT first they sold our loan to EMC last year Nov. We had so many different troubles with MortgageIT from the start we wanted to rescissions our loan but they wouldn't answer us or talk to us until after the 3 day then this is what they said 3 days of Rights of rescissions has gone way too past the 3 days of Rights Of Rescission and if they ever got audited they would be fined. We wanted to refinance because we ran into some problems so we wanted to lower our monthly payments and pay a little to some credit card's but that not what happen we really got screwed.It a long Story would have to sit with you or talk to you on the phone to explain everything.

We didn't even know we had a interest only loan until now after all this happen I started doing research on our loan reading up on the computer then we notice that we have an interest only loan and that if we pay early that we may have to pay a penalty.

We wrote all over the place the Banking Department and OCC The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency- Federal Trade Commission -HUD -Better Business Bureau they have don't noting they all pass the buck.

So we were stuck with this mortgage and we can seem to get out of it. We try refinancing and know one will touch this loan. . Anyway we were stuck with the loan and they sold our loan right away to EMC.Well things got even harder for us with this loan because the payment were higher then our first Mortgage so we had to file bankruptcy.
We file bankruptcy back in Fed 2006. When we file the trustee said he would pay the bal that we were back up to our mortgage company EMC out of the money we send him and for us just to keep paying our mortgage payment like it we just started.Our payments are up to date but they are claiming we owe them 12,019.90 .We are being charge late fee inspection fee and we were put in a Suspense account and something Elsa call outstanding advance due by borrower. We called EMC and we requested a complete "life of loan" payment history that includes a rundown of how all our payments have been applied from the inception of the loan to the present time, and which includes all of the charges that have been imposed whether paid or pending.
We requested a payoff statement good through January 1, 2007 I spoke with Gloria Craig on DEC 11,2006 at 315 PM her extension is 14880 from the Bankruptcy Department she gave me a hard time and told me that I pay my bankruptcy lawyer good money and that he should ask for it. I told her I was going to have my loan audit then she agree to send me the information but as yet I have not received anything just my statement for March. I am sure our Mortgage is one of the Mortgage EMC is suing MortgageIT for. Bad loans draw bad blood. My husband and I we feel that MortgageIT prey on us because we were under duress and now with EMC we feel they are Servicing Fraud with us.

Our loan is also Subprime and iterest only we could of gotten a better loan we had income my husband score was at the time of the refinance was 0618 Experian 0605 with tranunion and 562 with Equilfax. Now that I been reading on the internet and with all the information we feel they took avandtage

here are some groups and forum I just started so that we can inform others on what going on with Mortgages today.

Click here: EMCMortgageCorpServicingFraud - View topic - EMC - This Site is on Mortgage Servicing fraud please join us and sha

http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/PredatoryLending

http://smurflilly.livejournal.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MortgagePredatoryLendingFraud/

http://my.yahoo.com/p/4.html

http://www.freewebs.com/smurflil/mortgagefraud.htm? token=b31302ef8d2c3deb110bd203be0

http://www.freewebs.com/smurflil/

http://predatorylender.blogspot.com/2006/11/lillianfraud- book.html

http://www.withmylife.com/viewUser.html?vuid=613

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index; _ylt=Aj1k0l5VK7kLoIbJ81dWFCPsy6IX?qid=20061118090545AAC26vN

http://www.freepowerboards.com/mortgagefraud/portal.php

http://groups.msn.com/MotrgagePredatoryLendingMortgageFraud

http://groups.msn.com/ MortgagePredatoryLendingandMortgageFraud

http://groups.google.com/group/emc-mortgage-servcing-fraud/ web/ms-fraud

http://www.freepowerboards.com/mortgagefraud

http://groups.myspace.com/ MortgageServicingFraudAndMortgagePredatoryLending

http://www.hoverspot.com/profile.php?UserId=836604

http://forums.recordonline.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=69.1& nav=messages&webtag=th-business&redirCnt=1

http://www.dataplace.org/groups/group.html?id=70

http://groups.google.com/group/emc-mortgage-servcing-fraud/ web/emc-mortgage-servicing-fraud-forum