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Legal Adviser John Bellinger is taking on his critics over at Opinio Juris, in a very interesting discussion about interrogation standards and detainee policy. Check it out.


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Your post is a week late. He posted for 6 days starting the week of January 15. I do think I will spend a little time reviewing the comments. Thanks.

Ron Byers

Mr. Bellinger wrote:

“Non liquet” asks how we will know when the war with al Qaida is over. This is an important question. Of course, in any war, you don’t know how long the war is going to go on. There have been wars that have gone on for five years, ten years, thirty years, one hundred years. But the fact that a particular conflict with an enemy may go on indefinitely does not mean we should simply release all members of the enemy we are holding so long as that conflict is continuing. There is a reason that under customary principles of international law, you may hold the people until the end of a conflict, and that is to keep dangerous people off the battlefield."

---

So Mr. Bellinger is saying that the U.S. Executive Branch should have the unquestioned right to hold any human being in any prison for their entire natural lives without any court trial or legal protections or intervention by anyone.

Discuss ...

Did anyone ask a question how combative a combatant has to be to be a combatant?

Padilla had no weapons on him when he was arrested and was classified as "combatant". Now he is accused of participated in telephone conversations about marrying a girl that he actually did marry, about visiting Busch Gardens and similar "atrocities", of which discussing a dream seems particularly heinous.

Many Guantanamo inmates were captured under similar circumstances.

Another issue is that if US government gives itself the right of capturing people and "treating them harshly", what does it mean? Delivering kicks to a leg until it is almost liquid and the person dies of blood clots? Hanging overnight on their hands? Keeping in the state of sensory deprivation for years?

Does the government have any responsibility for the physical and psychiatric condition of the persons it captures?

Piotr:

With some common sense, your questions will answer themselves. You don't need to ask anyone these questions. You already know the answer.

I would like to invite Ms. Slaughter to give her thoughts on this thread, since she initiated it. Thanks.

I guess it is called "rhetorical question".

That said, there are not THAT rhetorical. American super-max inmates get insane, lots of inmates are raped,
healthcare of the prisoners is often absolutely abysmal, and the public, lawmakers etc. are very sanguine about it. When there was a scandal (I guess in Missouri) about female prisoners being raped by guards, appalled state legislature forbid inmates to talk with reporters.

The idea that the state is responsible for physical and psychiatric health of its wards is actually a minority opinion in this country.

And how many pundits raise the question: how "inhuman and degrading treatment" can serve the interests of the state, when the Administration defended its right to apply it? How many wrote that legal or not, this is a very, very bad idea?

The sanity of Supermax prisoners is not a nice, clean issue. Let us assume that a prisoner is guilty of the offense in question, and sentenced properly, based on past record, danger to society, or other relevant factors, to a Supermax. I'll assume Federal.

I would suggest that a certain proportion of such prisoners, even in a much friendlier environment, might well contemplate their acts and become mentally ill as a rational response. Nichols and Malvo come to mind here.

Others, such as Kaczynski, may not have met the legal definition of insanity, but have such severe personality disorders that they need the tightest of controls. A Hanssen might find his ego, supported by the superiority he felt through espionage (remember the classic motivation mnemonic for spies, MICE: Money, Ideology, Compromise, Ego) shatter.

Apropos the M of MICE, what do you do with a John Walker?

What is the just thing to do with such prisoners? Should they have better mental health care than is available to non-criminals without excellent health coverage?

I have no simple answers. I don't think there are any.
--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

I don't think the evidence suggests that Supermax incarcerees (who may or may not end up in Supermax facilities under proper application of the guidelines) are going mad because they are contemplating the heinousness of their crimes, a la nineteenth-century theological justifications for the penitentiary. They are going mad because they are locked up in isolation for years on end. And, if NPR's coverage of the issue is correct, they're not receiving "better" mental health treatment. They're barely receiving any at all. Group therapy with other inmates and no trained counsellors?

Now, you may believe some crimes are so horrendous that their perpetrators deserve being locked in a small box to go slowly (or quickly, as the case may be) mad. The disturbing thing is that most of these inmates are due to be released at some point. There may not be any simple answers -- but I'd certainly like to think that our prisons aren't actively creating new psychopaths in addition to warehousing pre-existing ones.

Psychotherapy isn't likely to do much good when it will give someone insight into the reality of his situation. They could be so drugged as not to notice, I suppose, although that begins to get away from any concept of punishment, if the drugs don't have unpleasant side effects.

A fair number of the Supermax prisoners, however, will never get out.


--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" [George Santayana]

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