Brandeis University to Humiliate Carter
Remember the controversy about President Carter's proposed visit to Brandeis University?
Carter was invited to address the students about his controversial book about Israel and Palestine.
But then, due to pressure from various sectors, Brandeis insisted that Carter would have to share a platform with OJ Simpson's lawyer, Alan Dershowitz.
Carter rejected that plan. Whoever heard of a former President being forced to submit to simultaneous rebuttal? Carter negotiated the Camp David peace treaty. Dershowitz is a lawyer with no particular expertise on the Middle East -- but tons of opinions.
So Brandeis backed down and said Dershowitz would not share the platform.
But now this. Dershowitz will immediately take to the stage as soon as Carter leaves, keeping Carter's audience to give his own take on what the President had to say.
This is absurd. As an alum, I can recall no instance where any Brandeis speaker was subjected to instant rebuttal. Brandeis hosted Communists, racists, mad scientists -- the usual types who show up at universities -- but it was always assumed the students could handle it.
Not this time. Carter's views on Israel-Palestine are just too hot. They have to be filtered.
I read Carter's book and, frankly, I disagree with most of it. He is no fan of Israel although he did produce the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty which is the most pro-Israel act ever taken by a President.
But so what. Does Brandeis only permit speakers whose views are vanilla. Brandeis is a university. As such, it has no particular stand on the Middle East. I heard speakers at Brandeis call for Israel's destruction. The students listened and tore the guy to shreds.
No subject should be off limits at a university, and certainly not the words of a President.
Brandeis is badly hurting itself. It is acting like a Jewish organization and not like the top notch school it is (#31 in the US News rating). This incident will cost it in terms of recruiting the best students and undermines the value of the Brandeis diploma.
As a Brandeis alum and friend (my son is Brandeis '97, too), I ask President Carter to cancel his visit to Brandeis. The Dershowitz ambush disrespects you and the Presidency. And it undermines a wonderful university.
Don't go. You are being set up.


Comments (255)
Here's the link to latest Brandeis story.
January 19, 2007 7:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't they even set up a Derschowitz speech, like...I don't know...the next day?
It's almost like if they had David Duke there, they would trust the students to just laugh it off - it's as if Carter is going to seduce Jewish students, not because he's outlandish,not with his satanic sophistry - but because he's...reasonable.
Line number one of Derschie's speech:
ATTENTION STUDENTS OF BRANDEIS: DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS REASONABLE MAN. Don't be seduced by his 'facts' and 'studied analysis,' or his 'having brought peace between Israel and Egypt' as 'the leader of the free world.'
My Mom sent me the book for Christmas, so I'm going to take the bizarre step of reading it before I weigh in anymore...but,
Isn't there just a touch of "the lady doth protest too much" to this deal? We need to bring out the big guns - the very best arguers - not to counter nonsense, but to oppose something that might actually sort of add up.
January 19, 2007 7:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
1) It seems to me that this setup is slanted to heavily favor Dershowitz-- Since
Dershowitz can attack Carter from any direction and focus on any point whereas Carter has no right to respond. Dershowitz can make any claim confident that there's no one to challenge him.
2) My question to Brandeis is: who gets to refute Dershowitz? Why not make Dershowitz leave the building after his talk and then have Mearshimer and Walt come up and critique Dershowitz while giving Dershowitz no right to reply?
Or hey, if Dershowitz can speak then why can't MJ? Or myself?
Why not let the janitor give his two cents while we're at it? After all, it is probably the janitor's son who will be sent to the Middle East to die in order to accomplish Alan Dershowitz's goals.
Come to think of it, why not invite the parents whose children have died in Iraq so those parents can ask Alan why their children died to defend Israel just because Israeli billionaires like Haim Saban throw $Millions into US political campaigns.
3) Why does Brandeis care what Dershowitz thinks?
In the OJ Simpson trial, Dershowitz argued that society must leap through multiple hoops to respect OJ's constitutional rights -- in spite of OJ's dead wife.
A few years later, that same Dershowitz was arguing that that same justice system should give the Bush administration the right to torture people. Possibly because some of Alan's wealthy friends were wondering if Al Qaeda's crosshairs were on their backs because of their responsibility for US Government acts in the Middle East.
4) Does Brandeis really think Alan is committed to the Socratic method and to Truth -- as opposed to whatever deceitful sophistry and cheap rhetorical tricks are most expedient?
January 19, 2007 7:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Brandeis should be ashamed of hosting a hate-monger who refuses to recognise the rights of others to exist.
I'm referring to Dershowitz, who has openly espoused ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, using the Holocaust as a justification - by claiming that the Palestinians are responsible for the Holocaust.
Yes, that's right. According to Dershowitz, in his book, "The Case for Israel" (Wiley, 2003) the Palestinians should be held "legally and morally" responsible for the Holocaust, since "they" collaborated with Nazis, and so according Dershowitz, many "decent people" believe that the
Palestinians as a whole should acquiesce to their own "transfer."(1)
'enuf said.
He's just pro-Israeli spokesman cynically manipulating the memory of a mass murder to promote the racist agenda of Israel.
The fact that Israel exploits the Holocaust to garner support for the massacres/ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is hardly news: Arnold Toynbee suggested that British Christians had sympathy for Zionist aspirations because (in part) of a sense of guilt stemming from subconscious
anti-Semitism. Truman apparently considered the creation of Israel in part as a reaction to the guilt factor resulting from the Holocaust.(2) Holocaust-guilt has been relied upon by pro-Israeli lobbyists to promote US support for Israel.(3) George Ball(4) and more recently Michael
Scheuer(5) have both opined that the Holocaust, and more specifically the
Holocaust Museums in the US, have been used to promote loyalty and support for the state of Israel -- and others share this view and that the memorialization of the Holocaust has been turned into a supplement to loyalty to Israel and a rationalization of Israeli practices with respect to the Palestinians.(6)
And Holocaust denial happens when the Holocaust is reduced to a political weapon against the deprived.
------------------
1. "The Case for Israel" by Alan Dershowitz; Wiley, 2003
2.Securing the Covenant: United States-Israel Relations after the Cold
War, by Bernard Reich; Praeger Publishers, 1995, p. 9
3. Foreign Policy and Ethnic Interest Groups: American and Canadian Jews
Lobby for Israel by David Howard Goldberg; Greenwood Press, 1990, p. 24
4. CSPAN Booknotes Transcript, Air date: May 23, 1993, Author: George Ball
(and Douglas Ball) Title: The Passionate Attachment: America's
Involvement with Israel, 1947 to Present.
5.
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/in_the_media/in_the_media_show.htm?doc_id=267237
6. Never Too Late to Remember: The Politics behind New York City's
Holocaust Museum, by Rochelle G. Saidel; Holmes & Meier, 1996 pp 29-30.
January 19, 2007 7:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Brandeis wanted to give their students multiple viewpoints of the Israeli-Palestinian issue, then why not at least invite a reputable person with knowledge?
Someone from the State Department who can discuss the multiple considerations that going into forming US foreign policy -- who can identify concrete US national interests
and tradeoffs as opposed to mere political pressure from domestic special interests with selfish axes to grind.
Instead, Brandeis invites Alan Dershowitz -- a LAWYER. Someone with NO competence, standing, or authority on this issue that I can see.
January 19, 2007 8:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Listen guys, I'm trying to be nice. I didn't even mention that Dershowitz, defender of all Jews everywhere, happily accepted the role of defending the killer of nice Jewish boy, Ron Goldman (not to mention Nicole Brown).
January 19, 2007 8:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Carter is getting everything he deserves. He clearly, on at least two separate occasions, defended palestinian terrorism against Israel. In his book he stated that the palestinians should make it clear they will give up terrorism when Israel concedes to their demands. And the other day on al jazeera, he said that he doesn't believe the firing of missiles at Israel amounts to terrorism.
January 19, 2007 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
So Carter has humiliated and disgraced himself.
January 19, 2007 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not just former presidents who shouldn't be treated like this. As you point out, MJ, even the lowest ranked visiting colloquium speakers are not subjected to this sort of disrespectful treatment.
You know, by helping to negotiate the Israeli-Egyptian peace, Jimmy Carter might have saved the lives of more Jews than 100 bloviating Dershowitzes have saved in a career. You would think that even people with a serious substantive beef over Carter's book would accord some sort of respect to that achievement, and let him say his piece in a non-circus environment.
Brandeis students and faculty can then go on to spend semesters or even years bringing in all sorts of other speakers with contrary positions. They can schedule special undergraduate and graduate seminars. They can hold pro-Israel rallies. They can publish articles in the student newspaper. It's not like Carter's words will be chiseled in stone at Brandeis and allowed to endure unchallenged into eternity unless the mighty Dershowitz is their to rebut them the moment they come out of Carter's mouth.
This undecorous and anti-academic behavior really makes Brandeis look bad. And aside from that, given the fact that one of the criticisms of Carter is that he accords too much weight to the existence of the "lobby" and pro-Israel media bias, it makes Carter's antagonists look stupid, since the college is clearly caving to the very kind of media and pressure group agitation that the critics claim does not exist.
January 19, 2007 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't they even set up a Derschowitz speech, like...I don't know...the next day?
That's exactly right, and would be entirely appropriate.
January 19, 2007 8:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes MJ, and I think that's sort of the heart of the matter. It's not about how UN resolution XX is being totally misconstrued in Carter's flawed analyis or something.
It's just a matter of decorum and politeness. Maybe Carter can be pedantic or preachy, but he is genteel and polite - I don't think he's going there to point the finger.
And I do think that this points to what I see as the 'blind spot' in US discussions about this contentious issue - and in fact what Carter is trying to say - namely that there isn't really a big group of Palestinians involved in the US debate. Maybe the Palestinians get some proxy - in this case Carter. But then Carter is just sort of a crusader speaking for people who likely think he has no right to speak for them in the first place. I think for Jews there is visceral connection with Israel - almost like an extended family, but when 'nice' US speakers get up to defend Palestinans, it's sort of an abstract connection like "ain't it a shame - fewer people should be killed" but it comes down to abstractions about 'generic fairness' for 'generic people.'
January 19, 2007 8:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dan K, you are too kind. Carter saved thousands of Israeli lives. 3000 Israelis were killed by the Egyptians in the '73 war. Since Carter's peace treaty, not one has died at Egypt's hands.
As for Dershowitz, it is safe to say that he never saved a single Israeli life. Quite the contrary, he has supported policies that have cost many many Israeli lives. I won't mention Palestinian lives because OJ's lawyer wouldn't care about that.
January 19, 2007 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
As for Dershowitz, it is safe to say that he never saved a single Israeli life.
Not unless Klaus von Bulow was a secret Mossad agent - which seems somewhat unlikely.
January 19, 2007 8:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
1)Actually, Carter's gift to Israel --with the Camp David accords with Egypt -- is far GREATER than most Americans appreciate.
2) What Carter did was buy off --with US tax dollars -- the 800 pound gorilla of the Arab world in order to protect Israel. A few military facts from James Dunnigan's
book "How to Make World" (data circa 2000).
a) Population:
Israel: 6.4 mil
Syria: 16 mil
Egypt: 71 mil
b) GDP:
Israel: $48 Bil
Syria: $14 Bil
Egypt: $93 Mil
c) Military Budget:
Israel: $5.5 Bil
Syria: $0.7 Bil
Egypt: $3 Bil
d) Land Combat Power:
Israel: 617
Syria: 85
Egypt: 149
e) Combat power of Naval forces:
Israel: 1
Egypt: 2
Syria: neglible
Note that Egypt could be a far more formidable military power if it mobilized to anywhere near the degree to which it is capable. Note also that much of Israel's military power was given to it by the USA --via large financial subsidies, transfer of advanced weapons like the F16 fighters and Apache helicopters,etc.
3)Egypt's potential capability as a source of terrorism against Israel is enormous -- both because of the huge size of its population as well as the education of that population and its location.
4) Finally, Egypt is a wall between Muslim groups in North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Libya,etc) and Israel. Carter ensured that when Israel faced Syria, Hussein's Iraq, and Iran, it did not have to worry (much) about Egypt at its back. Or about the countries west of Egypt.
5) To repeat what MJ noted, what --by contrast -- has Alan Dershowitz ever done? Other than shoot off his mouth about things of which he knows little?
January 19, 2007 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Correction: Above data is from Dunnigan's book "How to Make WAR"
January 19, 2007 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Mr. Rosenberg's account is accurate, Prof. Dershowitz is being silly in not agreeing, along with Brandeis students, to question Carter while he is there, and Brandeis, my alma mater, is being silly in not encouraging Dershowitz to do it that way, as opposed to having a separate rebuttal later. But, as with the canards thrown about re the Polish consulate in New York allegedly cancelling Tony Judt because of pressure from the ADL, the facts may not actually be as Mr. Rosenberg has relayed.
January 19, 2007 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
As the New York Times reported on Sunday, it was not the ADL that caused the Poles to cancel Judt, it was the American Jewish Committee.
January 19, 2007 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Rosenberg, I know you went to Brandeis; as an academic in the Midwest I have always had a high regard for Brandeis University. With all due respect, Brandeis is humiliating itself not Carter.
January 19, 2007 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dear Victor Lazlo,
You have it exactly right. Thank you for yourheroic resistance activities. MJ
January 19, 2007 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, that's right. According to Dershowitz, in his book, "The Case for Israel" (Wiley, 2003) the Palestinians should be held "legally and morally" responsible for the Holocaust, since "they" collaborated with Nazis, and so according Dershowitz, many "decent people" believe that the
Palestinians as a whole should acquiesce to their own "transfer."
Wow. It seems like Dershowitz has taken classical anti-Semitic arguments and simply turned them around to apply to the Palestinians. That this is a contrived argument is obvious; why should the Palestinians, who bear peripheral responsibility at most, have paid the price, and not the Germans who were the actual architects of the Holocaust? And "they" collaborated with Nazis? Really? Every one of them did? Every Palestinian kicked out of their home was a Nazi collaborator? Why do I find that hard to believe?
This is exactly the same as the traditional anti-Semitic argument that Jews "deserved" to lose their own homeland because "they" killed Jesus.. Again we have the totally unjustified expansion of "they" from specific culprits to an entire people, and again we have a deliberate avoidance of the primary culprits (most historians and Biblical scholars consider the Romans, not the Jews, to have been the prime movers behind the Crucifixion, and it is a well known fact that Pontius Pilate was a brutal dictator who ordered thousands of Jews crucified, often for minor offenses.)
Dershowitz should be ashamed for dusting off the charge of deicide and using it against another oppressed group.
January 19, 2007 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
"But now this. Dershowitz will immediately take to the stage as soon as Carter leaves, keeping Carter's audience to give his own take on what the President had to say."
Come on guys,
When President Bush will give his State of Union speech next week, somebody will follow him to rebuff this speech.
Last week Bush gave an interview to News Hour. Immediately, Brooks and Shield stated dissect Bush’s every word and give own take on what the President had to say.
January 19, 2007 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
January 19, 2007 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
And, if there is anyone left for Dershowitz to lie to....then they are welcome to him.
January 19, 2007 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another correction: those numbers are completely out of date. Isrrael's GDP is in excess of $100 billion, and its latest defense budget is in excess of $10 billion.
More importantly Egypt's army sucks. In 1973, with the most modern Soviet equipment - t54/55 tanks, SA-2, SA-3, and SA-6 SAMs, Sagger anti-tank missiles, Egypt could not penetrate more than 5 miles into the Sinai. When it tried, their armored forces got slaughtered. Then, they had an entire Army surrounded and cut off by the IDF. Overall, their performance in that war was poor. (Read Ken Pollack's Arab's at War.)
Had Israel not negotiated a peace with them, the Egyptians would have lost an entire Army, in exchange for 5 miles of Sinai. They had no intentions of attacking again, and even if they had the intentions, they did not have the capability.
Moreover, Carter is given way too much credit for negotiating the Camp David Accords. The treaty was worked out in secret between Egypt and Israel, and when it was pretty much complete it was brought to the US to be a guarantor of it.
January 19, 2007 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
I certainly don't believe that it's terrorism... Israel wants to be the big bully on the playground and the Palestians are a little divided over how to hold their ground.
I certainly think that Israel has its share of bigots and I don't think I'd worship that country because doesn't the Bible warn us about false Gods?
I don't think Israel will be confused with Mother Theresa any time soon and neither will the Palestinians.
I tend to blame Israel because, amoung other things, they had the audacity to blow up oil tanks recently and create the largest oil spill in the history of Mediterranean and, oh my!, Israel has nukes too...
The leaders of Israel seem clearly racist, just like the ones in the US: they hate muslims, palestinians, anyone with oil they want or social security entitlements, health care entitlements-- etc... but embrace those who want to shoot guns, make bombs and believe it's glorious to kill those "pesky terrorists."
January 19, 2007 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
no, some of us would enjoy the comic relief of that guy after Carter's talk... he'd remind me of the republicans who spent their time-- at their last convention-- spitting on the UN.... today, people don't join the KKK, and other hate organizations, but, even without affiliation, you understand they're idiots. it's sort of like Condoleezza Rice doing nothing for the reputation of blacks or women and she helps people understand that people can be rotten despite their skin color, age or gender.
January 19, 2007 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Moshe Dayan, who was Foreign Minister then, said "all credit for this success goes to President Carter."
The fact is that he flew over to Israel and Egypt when the whole deal was falling through and saved it.
He is responsible for that treaty more than anyone else.
January 19, 2007 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Moshe Dayan, who was Foreign Minister then, said "all credit for this success goes to President Carter."
The fact is that he flew over to Israel and Egypt when the whole deal was falling through and saved it.
He is responsible for that treaty more than anyone else.
January 19, 2007 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if Brandeis would let Dershowitz share the stage with someone who has, roughly, the same positions as Carter? Nawwww probably not. It would be too "fair"...instead, unbeknownst to Carter, they are going to host a debate where one side is barred from rebuttal. It gives me the faux intellectual warm fuzzies...
January 19, 2007 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
yeah, that's the way I feel. I think that you have to have faith in people to listen and decide for themselves. as everybody knows, Bush isn't influencial any more-- nobody listens to him. His ratings are terrible and every time he talks, he reenforces those ratings.
I'm sure that there will be a Carter fan base there and a Dershowitz fan base too.
Personally, I wouldn't need to listen to either since I've been able to follow Carter over the past few months on the Internet and having a "one-night-stand" wouldn't make me favor Dershowitz because, as others indicated, they feel that Dershowitz's mind is connected to humanity through a sewer pipe. I fully agree that the bigots, who are responsible for Israel's terrible policies, won't change their mind because of Carter's book and they'll hide behind people like Dershowitz as did OJ...
January 19, 2007 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
and with your support, this time I know we will win.
January 19, 2007 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
remember the Pentagon getting upset that lawyers were defending Guitanamo inmates? if Brandeis hosted a "post talk debate," I wonder who would be brave enough to reenforce Carter? but, really, your suggestion seems amazing! Surely Israel's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on nukes is so bigoted that even folks like Dershowitz must groan...?
January 19, 2007 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Except of course that that is NOT what Dershowitz said in his book.
It is a fact that the Palestinian leadership during the 30's and 40's were Nazi sympathizers and the Mufti of Jerusalem was Hitler's honored guest on a number of occasions. Dershowitz's point is that in most circles that alone would be enought to discredit you.
Here are some choice bits from the Wikipedia biography of the Mufti:
The Mufti, of course, is a hero to Palestinians.
January 19, 2007 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Moshe Dayan said lots of things. A serious political analyst needs to differentiate between rhetoric and reality.
The fact remains that the deal was negotiated in secret between Israel and Egypt, without the knowledge of Carter. He might have helped guide it along in various rocky spots, but the credit goes entirely to Sadat and Begin. Both were visionary men who understood that peace was in both their countries' interests, especially in Egypt's interest.
January 19, 2007 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but your analogy is not a match with this situation.
For one thing, Brooks and Shield have opposing positions on many political issues -- so a discussion between them has some balance. For another thing, both of them are professionals -- in the sense that they have enough pride in their intellect, knowledge and command of the facts that they don't frequently lean on sophistry as a prop. Especially when they know their opposite number will call them on it.
The Brandeis situation is more like having Hillary Clinton speak and then giving Rush Limbaugh the mike for a long , unchallenged monologue/critique.
If you dig deeply , you might hear a fact or even a semi-reasonable piece of logical reasoning. The odds aren't high, however.
January 19, 2007 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you say Carter is no friend of Israel? Is it because he disagrees with many of Israel's government's policies over the years? Don't many Israeli's disagree with many of Israel's government's policies?
Tom
January 19, 2007 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree the Dersh rebuttal is exceptionally poor protocol on the part of Brandeis.
However, and I'm not an expert, but let's be careful not to get too teary eyed over just what keeps the Camp David accord is: A Mexican standoff fueled in large by just over $4 billion in annual US foreign aid, largely in the form of military aid, divvied between the two of them.
When the US is not running around reconstructing countries it recently bombed back into the stone age, aid to Israel and Egypt represent the lion's share of annual US foreign aid spending since, well, 1978!
In my simple mind, where everything is explainable as a quick one act play, Carter negotiated a peace that works the following way, with Al Pacino in his Scarface character playing the role of Israel, and Robert deNiro in his Taxi Driver character playing Egypt:
Isreal: If you cross that line I'm gonna blow chour head off wit dis gun, and I got's plenty more where dis comes from. Do you know what I mean?! Do you know what I mean?!?
Egypt: Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? Do you think this is the only gun I have? Do you really want to take that chance?
January 19, 2007 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess what I'm saying is Carter is no choir boy.
I've heard him speak on several occasions, in these intimate college exchange forums. Time and again you sense the undertow of a self-serving, pragmatic politician. It is never far below the surface.
January 19, 2007 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
David Harris of the American Jewish Committee called the Polish Embassy to complain but the Poles chose to cancel the talk.
Daniel A. Greenbaum
January 19, 2007 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
It must warm George W. Bush's heart to know that when he is out of office and he gives speeches defending his Iraqi War policy if it is demanded that Juan Cole or Noam Chomsky debate him that TMPCafe participants will defend his right as an ex-President no to be so challenged.
Daniel A. Greenbaum
January 19, 2007 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Geez, rather one-sided article. Thank you for giving us a fuller perspective in your post.
The big problem is that it's set up with Carter as the voice of the Palestinians, which he is clearly not, and Dershowitz as the voice of the Israelis, which he is also clearly not. Neither one of these communities speaks with one voice, and neither of these men represents the average viewpoint.
Dershowitz is such a terrible choice for a rebuttal. First of all, he doesn't even teach at Brandeis, so it makes it seems as if they have to go find someone from outside to handle their arguments for them b/c there is no one up to the task on their campus, which is obviously not the case.
Secondly, he has basically become a self-parody with his self-promotion and pedantic rhetoric. I think to many people he has lost his credibility. So why cave in to his demands to be allowed to have an instant rebuttal of Carter and give him this stage to further self-promote, rather than inviting someone more interested in a serious discussion of the issues? I agree that it's a slap in the face to Carter, and I concur that he should just avoid this set-up altogether.
January 19, 2007 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Would any college or university in the country only invite Bush to speak on the condition that Noam Chomsky or Juan Cole got to rebut him immediately after his speech?
I don't think so.
Useful illustration, but not for the reasons you thought.
January 19, 2007 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.
January 19, 2007 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does that not follow from what MJ said?
January 19, 2007 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
To have Alan Dershowitz follow president Carter is in my opinion a slap in the face,out of all people Dershowitz is the one they could find to offer up a rebuttal,surely they could of found a more qualified person?. Dershowitz is a blatant and intellectually dishonest apologist for Isreal,plagiarizer (see his book the case for isreal),and he has contributed nothing of any academic significance to this issue. The fact that this is going on in addition to the venomous reaction to carters valiant book as well as other similar works, gives credence to one of his his central claims! namely that Isreal lobby and its agents have a significant strangle hold on debate about the Isreali/palestinian conflict within american media.
When will this veil of ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, and outright blatant intimidation stop so we can have an honest and balanced debate about issues pertaining to Isreal/Palestine and American complicity?
I praise Carter and others like him for stepping from behind this veil and speaking their minds!
January 19, 2007 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
From what I've read, Dershowitz wasn't invited to the talk b/c it is only open to the Brandeis campus community and he's not part of the Brandeis campus community. He had proclaimed that they could not keep him out, however. I think it was in a recent Boston Globe article.
January 19, 2007 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thus they should be exterminated?
January 19, 2007 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess I don't see what's the issue
Former president doesn't not have a right to self invite himself
to any University. Any University has a right to invite him with any conditions they want to attach. The former President can take offer or reject.
BTW, In some places in USA with sizebable Arab/Muslim student body,
pro_israel speaker would never be invited under any conditions.
January 19, 2007 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ohiomeister, you got it. That's how it went down.
January 19, 2007 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your sentence could be rephrased as follows to make it true: Carter is a blatant and intellectually dishonest apologist for Palestinians,plagiarizer (see his latest book),and he has contributed nothing of any academic significance to this issue.
January 19, 2007 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
1) Brandeis is also hurting its reputation in ways it may not appreciate yet.
People don't spend $40,000 /year just so their child can read books or be a stenographer creating a transcript of a professor's monologue.
They pay to have their children EDUCATED. To gain an understanding of the world's complexity --include the complex nature of human societies.
2) We could save $160,000 by having our children stay at home and read the Great Books. Instead, we send our children to universities because what they gain at university is encounters with great minds -- from a wide variety of backgrounds and beliefs, both student and professors. Our child engages in debate and seeking of truth with those minds and comes to understand that the exchange of information within a community creates something greater than its parts.
Because if a child's worldview is based solely upon that child's personal experiences and family upbringing then that worldview is severely limited -- and hence false. A severe handicap in the decision-making needed to survive the real world.
The university student learns how to deal with people different from himself --to understand them so that he can lead them, can negotiate with them, can do business with them, can work with them, and ,in some cases, so that he can fight with or against them.
3) Brandeis's pandering to Alan Dershowitz hurts Brandeis in three ways.
One , it tells the world that Brandeis itself has a poor opinion of Brandeis's intellectual competence.
That the Brandeis community feels it lacks the intellectual capital to deal with a gentle challenge from a humane ex-President who has been one of Israel's greatest friends.
Hence, the need to let an outsider like Dershowitz shove his way into Brandeis's conversation with Jimmy Carter.
What Brandeis is admitting is that Dershowitz must defend Brandeis's Jewish students from Carter's aggressive and formidable intellect because Brandeis's students and faculty cannot defend themselves.
4) Two, Brandeis's choice of champion speaks badly of Brandeis's judgment and committment to scholarly integrity. Alan Dershowitz is not an expert on the Middle East. He is not a former President who was briefed daily for 4 years by the US intelligence community. Alan Dershowitz has never experienced the President's awesome duties, powers and responsibilities. To the best of my knowledge, Alan Dershowitz has never been within 1000 miles of an active battlefield, much less ordered American citizens into combat or faced nuclear-armed Russia and China.
No, Alan is merely a lawyer. Someone who uses cheap tricks --like ad hominems --to avoid losing oral arguments. Someone who criticized Mearshimer and Walt by suggesting they got their information from Neo_Nazi sites. Which conveniently ducked the question of whether Mearshimer/Walt's statements are true or false.
People send their children to Brandeis to be educated, not to be indoctrinated. What do you think is Dershowitz's goal?
5) Third, Brandeis's pandering to Dershowitz speaks badly of Brandeis as a university.
The Jewish community produces some great intellects but those intellects are still a minority within the US intellectual community as a whole. It can not be otherwise, given that America's 6 million Jews live within a nation of 300 million people.
To provide a quality education to its students, Brandeis must compete with Harvard, Princeton,etc in recruiting great intellects (both student and faculty, both Jewish and Gentile) to join the Brandeis community.
6) That recruitment will be difficult if America's most brilliant minds get the impression that Brandeis is not a real university but is rather an overblown
Jewish Studies program.
What real intellect -- what real Jewish intellect for that matter -- wants to join a community ruled by a hidden party line?
What brilliant gentile intellect will want to enroll at Brandeis if he wonders whether Brandeis's faculty will punish him with low grades for robust, well-argued, well-evidenced papers which do not hew to the community view?
A young mind can only develop by thinking -- by challenging and being challenged. Unreasonable Shackles on that thinking can only cripple its development.
7) If Brandeis had any sense, it would welcome people like Jimmy Carter and Juan Cole. It can yell at them and call them putzs. But it should then hug them and make them welcome. Because an inbred community afraid to face challenges from outsiders is weak.
In the same way that some Southern girls colleges have not prospered in the last 30 years.
January 19, 2007 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is a call to complain the cause for a nations embassy to cancel a talk? M.J. seems to share the view of anti-Semites that there is a nefarious Jewish conspiracy with enormous power.
Unfortunately for him they just don't agree with his views.
Daniel A. Greenbaum
January 19, 2007 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes I think many schools might do just that. And would oppose such and invitation?
Also despite all the whining here the original invitation to Brandeis was for Carter to debate Dershowitz and Carter refused. It is likely that most people at Brandeis understand Carters anti-Semitism and wanted someone from the area, he is at Harvard, to address the issues.
The notion that a former president is so meek or his arguements are so poor that he cannot deal with a law professor, admittedly a very good lawyer,is most strange but may explain why Carter was defeated by Reagan. Daniel A. Greenbaum
January 19, 2007 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, this is a joke, right?
January 19, 2007 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Also despite all the whining here the original invitation to Brandeis was for Carter to debate Dershowitz and Carter refused. It is likely that most people at Brandeis understand Carters anti-Semitism and wanted someone from the area, he is at Harvard, to address the issues."
lol Are you serious my friend? this is a textbook example of the intellectual dishonesty and venomous spewing of the anti-semitic canard, you in fact do it so recklessly and cavalierly it amazes me . "someone from the area" what a great qualification........... and when did being a "good" lawyer automatically qualify a person to be an expert on middle east affairs? step from behind the veil my friend
January 19, 2007 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will recoil from throwing intellectually irrelevant and empty rocks as you have chosen to do..................rather my concern lies in the fact that as an American I fear that we will be bearing the brunt of damage for not objectively and honestly debating our policies in regards to foreign countries (allies and enemies alike).
"Every morning now, I awake beside the Mediterranean in Beirut with a feeling of great foreboding, there is a firestorm coming. And we are blissfully ignoring its arrival; indeed, we are provoking it." Robert Fisk
It is every Americans duty, President Carters, mines, yours, to have an honest and balanced debate about issues that pertain to our national interest and security! Not to reduce ourselves to hysteric name calling and intimidation as has been the case with this issue I just dont see a level of intellectual honesty,maturity, and balance whenever someone brings up the Isreal side of the Isreal/Palestinian debate, at least not in America.
January 19, 2007 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Not to reduce ourselves to hysteric name calling and intimidation as has been the case with this issue"
I agree, this why we all need to reject Carter attacks on American Jews:
"The premise of exchanging Arab territory for peace has been acceptable for several decades to a majority of Israelis but not to a minority of the more conservative leaders, who are unfortunately supported by most of the vocal American Jewish community."
It's a Bush speak. He likes to say
"Some democrats say but I disagree with them. We just have HONEST difference of opinions
and so on. I guess Bush learned this trick from Carter
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/17/AR2007011701712.html
January 19, 2007 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, but why are you so hostile to Carter's book? And please (in another column) list his "mistakes" and tell us why these alleged mistakes are so bad.
I read Peace Not Apartheid and was amazed to find that it actually made me MORE pro-Israel than I've been the past few years. I had given up on the idea that there could ever be a peaceful, humane solution between two such petty, bellicose and proudly racist peoples, but Carter now has me hoping against hope that something like the Geneva Initiative could actually be implemented.
January 19, 2007 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can see Carter described as opposed to Israel's government, although I'm less clear that he is opposed to the nation of Israel or to Zionism. He certainly isn't anti-Jewish, regardless of how much you may want to equate Israel and Judaism.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
January 19, 2007 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I totally agree that the Mufti was in bed with the Nazis. As you point out, he hasn't been around for a while.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
January 19, 2007 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that your point isn't useful because there are no conditions on Carter. He is being given the space and can control the presentation; when he leaves, he's gone.
I assume that Carter doesn't have an inferiority complex so, most likely, he's not going to get an anxiety attack over Dershowitz doing his dog and pony show afterwards.
It's not like Carter can or should impose the condition that nobody speaks against him or his book for 5 years after he gives his talk.
For all we know, Carter fans will leave with Carter, Dershowitz fans will enter after Carter leaves and another group will want to hear both.
The initial situation was having a debate and Carter just didn't want someone continually in his face, I imagine and Carters getting older and should probably avoid a high octane, adreniline pumping situation.
January 19, 2007 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes that's exactly what I meant. I mean, only a fool would think the fact that I said nothing of the sort would imply that's what I think.
Idiot.
January 19, 2007 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
ohiomeister,
That was neither Brad the Dad's conclusion nor Dershowitz's. It was only hass' presumption supported by decontextualized quote marks.
January 19, 2007 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just another inconvenient truth, on both counts.
January 19, 2007 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Carter made a mistake by not sharing the platform with Dershowitz. Carter knew full when he wrote his book that it would provoke an uproar in some quarters and he should follow up on his plan to create a public discussion, polite or otherwise.
I just read what Dershowitz has been up to lately and I think he would set on Carter like a pit bull. I'd like to see Dershowitz tear Carter to shreds in front of the entire world as if Carter were on trial. Dershowitz has an enormous ego and is sure to overplay his hand.
From the Forward on the 19th: "I think the people who brought Carter to the campus are very anxious about having me speak, Dershowitz told the Forward. He added, Brandeis will have to make the decision to exclude me [from the Carter forum], because I'm going to come. I'm not going to make it easy for them."
Dershowitz was in Houston the other day for a speech arranged by the Houston Holocaust Museum entitled, "Is There a New Anti-Semitism?", according to Houston Chronicle. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that Dershowitz's answer is yes and Jimmy Carter is helping to promote it.
The Gather.com website has an opinion piece by Dershowitz entitled "Ex-President for Sale". Dershowitz claims that Carter has been bought and paid for by Arab interests. He rails about the tens of millions of dollars donated to the Carter Center by Saudi royalty and other Middle East sultans and follows up with "And these are only the confirmed, public donations."
Dershowitz calls for Carter to make full disclosure of all of his and the Carter Center’s ties to Arab money and if he doesn't, Dershowitz wants the media (that is not controlled by Jews) to "probe deeply into his, his family’s, and his Center’s Arab ties so that the public can see precisely the sources and amounts of money he has received and judge whether it has corrupted the process of objective reportage and politics by Carter..."
I'd go for that if the other presidents also agree to disclose how much Arab money they have taken in and how much Arab money is commingled with their investments. I suspect Carter is not the only former president who has accepted "dirty blood-money from dictators, anti-Semites, Holocaust deniers, and supporters of terrorism."
The Chronicle article was somewhat humorous in that Dershowitz met with the Chronicle editorial board and explained to the board members that terrorists have a "new" way of fighting. According to Dershowitz, the wily terrorists now hide out in civilian populations which makes them hard to catch without killing civilians if you are a democracy with an army, navy and air force. I guess that's why Israel lost the war and here I thought Dan Halutz was merely incompetent.
The Jerusalem Post has wall-to-wall Dershowitz coverage. On the 17th, the Post credited Dershowitz along with Elie Wiesel, Irwin Cotler and Dore Gold for pushing an initiative begun last fall to hold President Ahmadinejad accountable. This was in an article about a nonbinding Congressional resolution to charge Ahmadinejad with inciting genocide against Israel proposed by Steve Rothman (D-NJ) and Mark Kirk (R-IL).
Also on the 17th, the Post ran an article about Dershowitz's Harvard research assistant, William Charles Gray, who tracks Nazis using "modern methods". Gray used "simple database programs such as LexisNexis Westlaw and New Detective that lawyers have at their disposal and searched voting records land transfer documents professional licenses property sales and death records". How innovative. I wonder why the Israelis never thought of Lexis-Nexis.
The Post reported that "On Gray's first day, he was handed a name and they told me to see what I could do. Within the hour I located the suspect." Gray not only located the suspect's home he found how much he paid for it previous residences and the identities of his children. In his first month, Gray located four suspected Nazis living in America!
Dershowitz's credentials as an anti-semitism expert are obviously impeccable and I bet he could nail Carter to the wall, given half a chance. I'd really, really like to see Dershowitz rip Carter a new asshole for being a Jew-hater. The media (which is not controlled by Jews) will have a field day covering this story and everyone in America will then feel sorry for the Jews because the despicable Jimmy Carter picks on them.
And how about that new revelation by a knowledgable unnamed source and Israeli ambassador, Danny Ayalon, that Sharon warned Bush not to invade Iraq and forget about democracy in the Middle East? Gee, I wonder where Bush got the idea to sell the Iraq war by claiming that Iraq had WMDs and that democratizing the Middle East was a great idea?
From a March 2001 address by Sharon to AIPAC (which has no influence in Washington DC):
"Regional security is eroding in the wider Middle East, as well. Iraq has not been under UN monitoring for more than two years and sanctions have been increasingly ignored. There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein is seeking to restore his mass destruction weapons capability and his quest for long-range missiles....
Iran is already testing missiles that can strike Israel. But it is planning to produce significantly longer-range missiles that will put the Middle East, Western Europe, Russia and even parts of the U.S. itself at risk.
Much of this ballistic missile technology comes from North Korea, but it is also emanating from the Russian Federation...
Syria is looking east to its ties with a resurgent Iraq and Iran, instead of better relations with the West....
The current situation in the Middle East can be reversed. Strong democracies determined to protect themselves can restore stability and build the foundations for a lasting peace..."
Must have been the other Sharon who made that speech.
BTW, anyone have an update on the investigation of Israeli Prime Minister Olmert on corruption charges?
January 19, 2007 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yet Palestinians (and Arabs in general) have a very positive view of the Nazis - Mein Kampf is a bestseller in the Arab world. And then there is that member of the Palestinian legislature named Hitler.
January 19, 2007 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
But Nudnik, he's putting himself out there as an admitted advocate for the Palestinian point of view, which is all but unheard. He's not there to give a 'balanced' speech - he would tell you that himself I think.
January 19, 2007 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah Dan K - as I said before, it's become about decorum and civility, not being 'wrong' about UN Resolotion X, Y and Z.
January 19, 2007 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mrs Cecelia Panstreppon, now residing around Ronkonkoma, could she soon be a new Israeli West Bank 'settler'? She has the attitude!
Mrs. P's My GOP website which seems to have died sometime around the 2006 elections.
Maybe the US and the Middle East need a few less folks who want to 'rip new assholes' in other people, Cecelia...
January 19, 2007 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I tell ya, Carter's getting the last laugh here.
You wouldn't think Nobel Prizes for Peace would be given to Jew-hating Nazis, but, well, there you go.
He fooled everyone. Keeping all that Jew-hating bottled up for decades, until just the right time.
Genius, I say.
Right, peeps?
Dissent Protects Democracy.
January 19, 2007 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The people who throw the word anti-semite around at everyone they disagree with, or who disagrees with Israel, are robbing the word of any meaning.
If Jimmy Carter is an anti-semite, what is Ahmadinejad? What was Goebells? Stalin? Are they all the same?
The name-callers do not believe Carter is an anti-semite nor is their concern anti-semitism.
They are simply people who believe that the policies of the government of Israel are always right and must never be criticized (except, of course, when Yitzhak Rabin was in power).
Frankly, I don't think they give a damn about Israel. For them, it is always 1942. There is always a Holocaust going on. And the open secular liberal Israel of Tel Aviv and Haifa is an utterly unreal concept.
They are pre-1948 Jews. Always scared. Always paranoid. Never understanding that there is a Jewish state now and it's the 4th strongest country in the world.
Zionism was born so that Jews could escape the ghetto. But some Jews choose to live in mental ghettos anyway, hovering in fear over imaginary threats.
Meanwhile the Jews of Israel are living their lives, dancing at the clubs by the sea, hoping for an end of this damn occupation that is the bane of both the Israeli and Palestinian people.
The name-callers ("anti-semite!" "self-hating Jew!") are alot of things.
Pro-Israel is not one of them.
January 19, 2007 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm struck by how much of this whole sham Dershowitz/Brandeis ideology is just an old man's game.
How old is Dershowitz? How old is Foxman of the ADL? How old are the true leaders of AIPAC? Where are the young firebrands who might take their place, and really believe in their hearts that Israel has no real faults, that its critics are all animated by anti-Semitism, that Israel is struggling to exist, and that Jews everywhere are just a few pointed fingers away from another Holocaust? Where but in the hearts of old men and a few deluded youth can one find this hysteria?
I'm sure you'll find a few of the younger generation that believe some of these things. Yet most have lived their lives in a very different reality. They aren't going to pretend to themselves that that new reality is going to collapse in heap before them, revealing a new Nazi society and world.
Brandeis seems lost in the mists of this past. This is not a good place for a university, which needs to find a way to the future.
January 19, 2007 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except of course that that is NOT what Dershowitz said in his book.
What? One person quotes Dershowitz and cites sources. Someone responds to them by saying "that's not what he said," then talks about the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. There are people who end up disliking Israel because they dislike the way some of its supporters argue. This would be exhibit A.
January 19, 2007 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Strictly speaking, it is enough that Polish consul thank that way (or something in that direction). And this is fully within the real of possibility. More precisely, Polish government tries to go to some lengths to stay on the good side of US Administration, and the consul probably had instruction to that effect. And consul could have an impression that the caller has some influence.
Your last sentence, Dan, could use some explanation.
January 19, 2007 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Daniel, I don't know your area of expertise, but just say for the sake of arguement, that you are a scientist, working on stem cell research. Let's say that you have spent your life on this research, and that you have written a book about this controversial, but very scientific area of knowledge.
Let's say that you are invited to speak at a prestigeous University. Only thing is that you have to debate:
1. A right-wing lawyer who opposes any stem-cell research, and who has no scientific credentials, but who says that once a sperm has connected with an egg it is more prescious --for example -- than all our 19 year-olds who are cannon fodder in Iraq...
...or
2. Pat Robertson, a religious maniac who says that 911 and Katrina were caused by the wrath of god...
...or
3. Any other opinionated but uncredentialled blowhard who can outscream you.
Dealing with a law professor like Dershowitz is an unpleasantness that anyone who is Carter's age has come to realize: IT ISN'T WORTH IT! Why should he bother? Life is too short to debate all the bloviators who want to say they debated a president.
Jan Knaus
January 19, 2007 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another point that I think is worth mentioning:
Jan Knaus
January 19, 2007 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Welcome to Bush speak. SOME unmamed people.
Who are people who believe that the policies of the government of Israel are always right and must never be criticized.
Israel in a way is blessed and cursed with it's enemies.
Somehow they just can't be reasonable. They always go overboard. So it's not that Israel is always right, but it's critics ouside Israel are almost always wrong.
Just read comments to your blog.
January 19, 2007 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, MJ; it won't wash.
Dershowitz and Krauthammer and their ilk aren't paranoid over a repetition of the Shoah. They're paranoid over the possibility that America might act to slow -- although not forestall -- the accomplishment of Israel's destiny -- occupation of eretz Israel to the hills beyond the River.
Whether as a gift from G-d, as a defensive necessity, or as lebensraum, it must happen. Unless, unless -- well, James Baker and Jimmie Carter don't have that many years left. Whew! But there are always other moles to whack.
N.B. Israelis "dancing at the clubs by the sea" are no more historically relevant or important than were Weimar Berliners dancing at their clubs. No one cares what they think -- if they think.
January 19, 2007 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have, carefully, read and reread this post, and I can't discover your point.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
January 19, 2007 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Palestinian view is "all but unheard"??? that is ridiculous. The Palestinians get their view out through many venues. They have become masters at propaganda. Look on college campuses, look at the MSM. Those all get the palestinian view out extremely well. The problem is that people just don't believe them, and rightly so. So now Carter comes out with a book that not only tells the Palestinian view, but makes up facts to do that.
January 19, 2007 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
You speak of "intellectual honesty", yet the book that Carter wrote is completely intellectually dishonest. The errors in it are not made by someone who doesn't know the issues. He purposely changes the facts to make them agree with his opinion. That is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty.
Carter is certainly entitled to his opinion, but he is not entitled to his own facts.
January 19, 2007 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink