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Kinsley contemplating a bust of Thomas Jefferson

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It was Rembrandt who gave us a provocative image - Aristotle in then modern dress contemplating Homer as a historical figure. One of the most interesting points of any moment in time is who they feel speaks to them with modern voice. Right now on PBS there is a program where Micheal Tilson Thomas makes Beethoven into Mahler, and his third symphony into Mahler's zeroth symphony. Because Beethoven is a modern to him, and therefore must have been Freudian and interior.

Kinsley, writing in the New York Times Book Review puts Aristotle in postmodern dress.

First he reminds people that Aristotle's question has two prongs -


We have to be careful about sour grapes. The current result of American democracy (though this may change on Tuesday) is Republican control of the presidency, both houses of Congress and (undeniably by now) the federal courts. And that, in turn, has produced policies that, unless I badly misjudge the demographics, most readers of The New York Times Book Review don’t care for: unjustified tax breaks for the rich, a miserable war in Iraq, unbelievable indifference to civil liberties (Secret prison camps? Torture?? America???), among other treats. But this doesn’t prove any flaws in democracy itself. Maybe it’s what people want.

Maybe good behavior in a Democracy is the kind of behavior that people in a Democracy reward, even if it is not the kind of behavior that is best for the Democracy in question.

He then turns to the question of "cheating":


It is considered tiresome to complain that the White House was stolen in 2000. In fact, the ultimate triumph of the George W. Bush forces in the 2000 dispute has been to stamp any discussion of that episode as bad sportsmanship and therefore, in a way, undemocratic itself. You lost fair and square: “Get over it,” as Justice Scalia advised.

Call me bitter: I am not over it and don’t want to be over it. I still find it shocking that democracy was so openly subverted, and even more shocking that so few others seem to share my shock. “Stolen”? That depends, as the man said, on what you mean by that word. Here is what I mean. First, a clear majority of those who voted in Florida intended to vote for Gore and walked out of the voting booth (or away from the mailbox) sincerely believing that they had done so.

I agree with Kinsley that Florida was stolen. In fact, various Republican operatives stipulated, on the record, to enough illegal actions to change the result of the election, specifically correcting absentee voter forms and absentee ballots. This leaves aside ballot design, hanging chads and legal votes for Albert Gore which were not counted (the write in over votes).

However, I disagree that what followed was "cheating". This may sound strange, but let me spin this out.

The point of an election is to produce a government. There are other reasons for a campaign, or for political theatre in general, but an election must be won by the people who can run the apparatus of government. This means that if the apparatus of government is corrupt, it must be won by corrupt people. In short: bad people get bad government out of Democracy, precisely because bad government is the only kind that can work. Elections often lead to goo men and women being unable to cope with the problems of, not merely a bad government, but a bad people. And Machiavelli's warnings about how good peoples will make good laws, while bad peoples will make bad laws - is still in force.

Bush won Florida primarily because his side was far better at handling the media system. The hysteria generated in small scale to paralyze government, confuse the public, and the coup de grace of having a Supreme court issue an unconstitutional decision - are all prototypes of how Bush governed in the aftermath. America wanted Rove's Republic, and got it in spades. Florida was illegal, but it was not cheating. This may sound wrong, but it is a state that exists in many parts of our society. Intentional fouls in basketball are one example - it is a foul, it is not cheating. This is because "cheating" means breaking the faith, not breaking the rules.

This may sound odd, but in fact, it is how we are as people. We have one sense for what is the ordinary course of business between people, and a completely different one that determines whether our expectations of fairness have been met.

Kinsley argues a point which is the converse - that it is possible to obey the rules, and still break faith:


The biggest flaw in our democracy is, as I say, the enormous tolerance for intellectual dishonesty. Politicians are held to account for outright lies, but there seems to be no sanction against saying things you obviously don’t believe. There is no reward for logical consistency, and no punishment for changing your story depending on the circumstances. Yet one minor exercise in disingenuousness can easily have a greater impact on an election than any number of crooked voting machines. And it seems to me, though I can’t prove it, that this problem is getting worse and worse.

Underneath Kinsley's long catalog of books, primarily from the left, which criticize the state of our Democracy, lie these two central questions. The first question, the intellectual one, is whether our current process is meeting some rigorous and external test of fairness, consistency or reason. Whether one is talking, as Kinsley does, of our discourse, or about constitutional mechanisms, or voting machines - these are all the same question. Merely the discussion is over which standard what part of the process is to be held to.

It isn't even unlikely for all of them to be right. Kinsley's critic of spin and PR is certainly easy enough to document - the creation of plausible lies which are repeated endlessly is the half of the business of "response" and "message" in politics. The other is the creation of stories which make the other sides message and response untenable. Implausible is much harder. It is easier to get people to believe that something should not have been said, than to get them to disbelieve it. An example of this is: "It's outrageous for anyone to claim that our troops aren't winning the ground war in Iraq."

However this doesn't mean that the other problems in the various books he talks about aren't true as well. In fact, if intellectual dishonesty is acceptable, it makes it easier to believe that you can't hold the same election once, that is, you will get different results depending on how you count the votes, and the voting counting process doesn't conform to the legal process mandated for them. It also makes it easier to believe that political interests are working to corrupt the process of registering voters, granting access to balloting and counting the votes on the ballots.

But the more interesting question is the one that Kinsley asks earlier - what if this is what people want? What if intellectual dishonesty in the media system is what people want. It is no less probable than bad policy being what people want in the democratic polity. Particularly if they are the Pauls that various Peters are being robbed to pay.

- - -

So do people want a public discourse that is dishonest?

In the sense that Kinsley thinks of public discourse, yes, they do. This is because there are several dichotomies between inner and outer which our present discourse allows us to maintain.

The first is the dichotomy between what we feel right now and what we believe. In a society where plans take a very long time to rise and fall, and there is no general belief in a divine providence, there is, therefore, a need to be able to say one thing, believe a second thing, but be fixed on a course of action which is a third thing. A candidate must always say he believes he is going to win, even though every candidate in a meaningful election has moments where he is sure he is not going to win.

This point also underlines that mere intellectual integrity - that is believing the same thing on the inside as on the outside - is over-rated. There are plenty of people who can be dredged up who truly believe some useful idiocy. In fact, a good deal of the right wing noise machine is just this - equipping the insane to chant the impossible. See "economic libertarianism" and "Intelligent design" for copious examples.

The second reason that people want an intellectually dishonest public discourse is that it allows them to consume it, rather than be subjected to it. What this means is that people don't want information, but confirmation. They don't want to make new decisions, but protect the decisions they have already made. The reason people consume plausible lies, is because they feel the cost of this is less than rearranging their lives each time new information comes out.

Consider if you will, global warming denial. The cost of replacing the internal combustion engine economy as we know it is substantial. Thus there is an economic bayesian logic going on here - people will only believe something when they believe that the cost for not believing it is higher than the cost for believing it. This is why the Y2K bug exploded into business consciousness, only when it seemed that the problem was going to be right there, on next year's balance sheet, was something done. This is particularly important because people have a reasonably good idea of what their capital is, and where their livelihood comes from.

However, this is a psychic, not merely self-interested, point.

I say this because the media stream pours down on top of us. As the modern mechanized system punctured the Victorian way of being in a variety of ways, and the art of the early 20th century reflects this - the post-war era saw media become omnipresent in a manner that it had not been before. At a certain point, people formed a substantial fraction of their sense of reality and normality from moving images that were from far away.

The shift from a media that portrays itself as an attempt to present a synoptic view, to a variety of medias, is representative of the shift from media imposing itself on the viewer, to the viewer imposing himself on the media. The power has shifted from producers to consumers.

This feature is generally negative. The reason the old line media - such as newspaper reporting and television reporting, is openly and actively courting the conservative world view - even when that world view requires them to directly lie to the public, repeatedly and crassly - is that conservative media is the organized media stream that they have to compete with - there is, for all intents and purposes nothing on television as far to the left as Fox News is to the right - and because that is where the marginal viewers are.

The consumer view of media does more than simply select for the media it likes, it attacks the media it does not like. This game is now so pervasive that even people who do not like it, must participate in it. Everyone works the refs - that is, everyone does it, so it is no longer "cheating" even if it is against the rules.

These two aspects combine into what there is a demand for - not information about the world, but training to impose and assert your world view on the others around you. Training videos on talking points, stance and attitude. Ammunition to win the battle of the water cooler.

The third reason we want an intellectually dishonest system of public discourse is more pernicious, that is, it means that the results of the present fight will not come back to haunt us in later fights. Each argument starts fresh with a fresh search for new first principles that just happen to be tantamount to assuming our own self-interests.

The solutions to these realities will not be found in changing the electoral college to a popular vote, nor will they be found in changing the rules of discourse, since those rules will be betrayed instantly even if we could enforce them. They are not going to be found in paper ballots, internet blogging or any other systematic change to the present market place of ideas. It is what people are buying, not how they are buying it, which is fundamentally at issue.

The solution to this, to use the answer implied in Aristotle, is reality. Unreality of court flourishes on credit from others. Court systems invariably suck more money in than they pour out, or they rob from another, larger, court system. When this process stops, the court system unravels over the course of a decade or so, and there is some kind of reformation, restoration or revolution. People stop worrying about convincing other people of half truth, and begin being desperate for truth itself.


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I felt something that this seems to echo while reading Richard Perle distance himself from the Iraq invasion's execution. He maintained that only "disloyalty" to the President was resonsible for the fiasco. Or maybe incompetence. What he is unwilling to contemplate is that intellectual honesty in advance of the invasion would have simply said "This ain't gonna work the way you think".

Does he think the State Department was disloyal to plan for post-invasion? Or was Rumsfeld disloyal in ignoring said planning?

Platonic theories met Aristotleian reality, and some folks were warning of the collision.

provactive --> provocative
Plato --> Homer
who they feel --> who is "they" ?
Micheal --> Michael
Freudian and interior --> ???
New York Review of Books --> New York Times Book Review


Now on to the second paragraph...

Thank you for correcting the errors in what was, indeed, a hideously proofed first paragraph, but I doubt you will find as many in the second, or other, paragraphs, or indeed the rest of the piece in toto.

Stirling Newberry http://www.bopnews.com

First, in re: your comments on Sascha Baron Cohen.
The only person immune to his ridicule is himself. That's a valid point, which you then use to let your mind take off into flights of unsupported literary and philosophical rambling. In doing so you duplicate his symptoms: the intellectual narcissism of someone who cocoons himself in his own ideas, and his own ideas about the world.

Ask 3 mathematicians from 3 different countries to write the number "5" on a blackboard, and the marks will all have the same meaning. Ask them to draw the same landscape and the drawings will be strikingly dissimilar. Each landscape will be different. Words exist somewhere between numbers and pictures, they're ambiguous, but you treat them like external objects.

You and Baron Cohen, like George W. Bush - though he's the only idiot- share the same narcissistic weakness: the world is or must be as you perceive it.

Ralph Nader attacked The Rockford Files as an example of violence on television. when a theme of the show was the main character's distaste for it. Rockfish had a gun but hated touching it and every time he was forced to hit someone his hand got hurt. The show was of all things, humane and funny.

The strength of Stewart and Colbert as opposed to Baron Cohen is in the touches of humanity, of real terror at the stupidity of the people they mock not as a terror of others but of themselves.
"Are people that stupid? Are WE that stupid"
Battlestar Galactica deals in a world of post-apocalyptic moral ambiguity and does so with more humanism than one would expect on television, let alone in televised Sci Fi. Your comments on that show are as absurd the right wingers' encomiums from past seasons.

As for the genealogy of Borat. My father could not bear to watch Faulty Towers. "That's not comedy, that's psychosis!" It's a British style that's been around a while by now.
---

Now on to this post, because they're connected:
"The solution to this, to use the answer implied in Aristotle, is reality."

There is no 'reality' there is only an argument over what it might be. What that argument requires are shared parameters among the beliefs of the people who are engaged in it. We need shared 'half-truths' to negotiate the ambiguity. Do we still have respect for the semi-failure of all acts of communication? Do we have faith in the "semi-failure" of government that defines a republic?

Yes. That's why people trust the honest insincerity of Stewart and Colbert's true fake news. But the lack of that respect, the weakness of the mind alone, is the flaw in Baron Cohen's mockery and Newberry's relentless intellectualizing. The isolated [misunderstood] genius is not a model for communication nor even for thought.

Gee, I've never met a front pager on God's blog before.

Stirling Newberry http://www.bopnews.com

Who's the one making gross generalizations about what the public wants and why? Speaking of cognitive dissonance...

Does Kinsley mention Aristotle once in his article? No. Thus, it was not Kinsley's intent to remind readers about Aristotle's "question"(s) whatsoever. Kinsley wrote about intellectual dishonesty among the political and punditry classes. The article isn't even about technical or policy means to prevent vote theft, as you appear to imply here:

The solutions to these realities will not be found in changing the electoral college to a popular vote, nor will they be found in changing the rules of discourse, since those rules will be betrayed instantly even if we could enforce them.

Which is very similar to Kinsley's concluding paragraph. Speaking to the Bush team's willingness to promote two mutually exclusive positions depending on the outcome of the 2000 race - that is, to oppose the Electoral College results should Gore lose the popular vote but win the EC vs. their actual strategy of promoting the EC outcome even though Bush lost the popular vote:

Of all the things Bush did and said during the 2000 election crisis, this having-it-both-ways is the most corrupt. It was reported before the election and is uncontested, but no one seems to care, because so much of our politics is like that. And no electoral reform can fix this problem.

Kinsley's litany of screeds by liberal authors, his list of the left's complaints about voter intimidation, and even theorizing about massive vote theft with electronic voting machines, aren't the subject; the whole _point_ of the article was to rail against intellectual dishonesty! That is, the sophist's taking of whatever position best suits his narrow short-term intellectual goal.

Yet you appear to argue *for* intellectual dishonesty:

This point also underlines that mere intellectual integrity - that is believing the same thing on the inside as on the outside - is over-rated.

You give three reasons why:

The first is the dichotomy between what we feel right now and what we believe.

[...]

The second reason that people want an intellectually dishonest public discourse is that it allows them to consume it, rather than be subjected to it. What this means is that people don't want information, but confirmation.

[...]

The third reason we want an intellectually dishonest system of public discourse is more pernicious, that is, it means that the results of the present fight will not come back to haunt us in later fights.

Even though, according to you, it is Kinsley who has dressed up Aristotle in "postmodern clothing" when he argues for intellectually consistent and rigorous debate in politics. Whereas you would appear to be arguing for the opposite, so that would - presumably, within the context of this submission - make you Aristotle's intellectual heir, even while arguing for intellectual sophistry!

Here is Lyotard from The Postmodern Condition:

I define postmodern as incredulity toward metanarratives. The incredulity is undoubtedly a product of the progress in the sciences: but that progress in turn presupposes it.

[...]

It remains to be said that the author is a philosopher, not an expert. That latter knows what he knows and what he does not know: the former does not.

The upshot being, who here has spun more a metanarrative about nothing: Kinsley or you? Who has staked out a position in support of false logic and self-beneficial bias: Kinsley or you? Who would Aristotle consider the sophist: Kinsley or you?

Pandering and promoting (false) hope are the staples of all politicians (a chicken in every pot). So this has nothing to do with democracy especially.

Where I think Kinsley goes wrong is in his underestimating the power of advertising/PR/propaganda to misinform people. With the concentration of the media into fewer hands these days the opportunities for alternative viewpoints (or data) are diminished.

At the turn of the 20th Century NYC had about 100 daily newspapers. It now has three - all owned by major corporations (I'm excluding foreign language specialty papers). There are no socialist, anarchist, populist or labor papers as there were then. The broadcast media is even worse four networks (plus PBS) control all the major stations in every large market and many cable stations as well.

Going back to Thorsten Veblen, through Vance Packard and up to the present there have been a continual stream of social critics showing how persuasion can convince people of almost anything.

Kinsley wants a better informed, more thoughtful citizenry but offers no suggestions on how this is to be achieved. Even history and current events as taught in schools has become twisted to promote the big business agenda. Try this experiment: open a typical US history text from 8-12 grades and see how much space is devoted to labor history.

 

--- Policies not Politics
Daily Landscape

I almost always agree with Stirling, but Kinsley had too many excuses for me this time, or at least too many glib, passing notices on too many books, for me to wish to be so gentle. Besides, the idea that Bush successfully manipulated the media doesn't mean that court didn't block a recount.  (One could also blame the Gore team tactics in not demanding a statewide recount or in pressing the issue of disenfranchised blacks, although the second was less likely to get legal status toward deciding a past election, since votes never made can't be counted.) So yeah, it was stolen. 

And I'm in the camp that Stirling is missing the idea of satire on Baron Cohen.  I haven't seen the movie, but I loved especially the Ali G portions of his TV show. Sure, satire is cruel, and sure, fiction makes things up. But so what? The point isn't to stack the deck against a former Soviet republic. For all most viewers know, he made up the name. (In his novel Mating, Normal Rush borrows the name of a real city for the community founded by one of his central  characters.) It's about satirizing the prejudices of several layers of protagonists and audiences, and it's blisteringly successful at that. 

John 

http://www.haberarts.com/

Republican; "I don't know what the hell you are talking about but I just ask that my congressman and my Senator and my President are simply and discreetly ruthless about achieving our security. Period. Yes, put a nice little bow on it so it looks right but I don't want to know about the nasty little details. Just get er done."

The underlying currency of all cultural transactions is certainty regardless of whether is is based on evidence or belief.

Bush won in 2000 because he fed the media's (and the electorate's) need for certainty and that started more than two weeks before the election as Josh has pointed out. The most frequent trope in the news in the weeks following election day was "how long can the public deal with the uncertainty?" while they accepted the Bush family's election night premise that the Presidency was W's to lose. And the Supreme Court accepted that premise.

That was Bush's original triumph of the will. He supplies his hombres with certainty and he knows that it doesn't have to be based on evidence. 2000 proved that to him and to Republicans.

Since then he has proved that while electoral success is not confined by empirical findings within one or two congressional cycles it is clear that a political agenda cannot be successful beyond that without being grounded in empirical realities.

But that still doesn't defeat a wingnut's desperate need for certainty. They just have to believe.

Count me on Stirling's side when it comes to Borat. I like Ali G, too, but Borat is gross, seriously unfunny. Candid Camera always struck me as the cheapest form of unfunny humor, anyway.

"Your comments on that show are as absurd the right wingers' encomiums from past seasons."

The right wingers think that the show is their narrative of the GWOT. They are correct.

Stirling Newberry http://www.bopnews.com

The human refugee camps look like Gaza. There's unresolved debate among the characters over a strategy of targeted suicide bombings; and the future is seen as belonging to a mixed race.
Sleeping with the enemy is a major theme.

Hardly Republican

I said this somewhere else, but it fits here:

Republican operatives and activists will defend to themselves the immorality of their actions at voter suppression during this election by saying that everyone else is as corrupt as they are. This will be their point of faith: "It's all politics." Certain of this, everything is reduced to sport or war.
If politics is the only issue, then there are no issues.
That's fascist logic.

I'll add that the strength of Battlestar Galactica is that almost no major moral question is ever resolved. Questions beget questions. The only moral I can find is that sadness and hope are better than anger.

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