Larry,

Maybe Bush, Blair, and Chertoff are incompetent with regard to intelligence.

Fortunately for us, the men and women who actually do the work are very qualified and dedicated; as was seen in this foiled plot.

If such a highly orchestrated plot can be dismantled while Bush is on vacation in Texas, and Blair on vacation in the Caribbean; I'm pretty confident that the people doing the work are getting the job done.

No Islamic terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11 is not merely good luck. It is also not coincidence.

Larry,

Maybe will begin to see some of these initiatives in the wake of this close call.

Don't forget that many of FDR's "New Deal" plans were merely ideas to help the American worker. Predictably, most of these plans failed. A few of them succeeded, Social Security, the Securities and Exchange Commission, and the FDIC among others.

My point here is that I agree with you that progressive steps should be taken without needing a near miss to jump start them. But there is much in the way of precedent where reactionary legislation has proven invaluable in the long term. Maybe we can hope for that here.

Maybe Bush, Blair, and Chertoff are incompetent with regard to intelligence.

That goes without saying. In any sense.

No Islamic terrorist attacks in the U.S. since 9/11 is not merely good luck. It is also not coincidence.

It's not necessary. The US serves Osama Bin Laden's interests perfectly.

Are you suggesting, then, that no over arching plan is needed

Well, presumably if Bush and Blair thought one was needed, they'd have had one by now ...

Ba-dum-BUMP!!

Further, you point about this having been foiled with Bush and Blair on vacation is bizarre at best.

Yes. I'm very sure that Bush and Blair were not directly involved in the terrorists operation in any proveable way.

In any case, statistically, with the time Bush spends on vacation, the odds are that most terrorist plots will be interrupted while he's relaxing somewhere.

Ba-dum-BUMP!!

Politicians aren't supposed to be involved in the day to day aspects of police work

This is possibly why the police were able to be successful. Given the level of competence displayed, if Bush was actually hands on involved in investigations, Osama would be wiping his ass with the stolen copy of the declaration of independence.

Ba-dum-BUMP!!

- they are supposed to develop long range strategies.

Hmmmm. Any chance of getting our money back from them?

Ba-dum-BUMP!!

Thenk yew, thenk yew verry mooch, yoof bin a triffik audienz!

I am sure we will get more tomorrow but from what I read today you need a couple of chemicals and then need to ignite them so it needs to be done in the plane's cabin.   Here's one take.

Think of all the great bomb detection gadgets and screening devices, and next generation security systems, and human and electronic intelligence stuff we could afford if only we had some more money.

Damn, I know I left $500 billion lying around here somewhere. Where is it? Where could it be?

Well, anyway, if one of these terrorist attacks ever does succeed, at least we have lots of extra national guard guys around to take care of the emergency.

I saw a draft memo that said full bladders are preferred in flight. This is due to the inability to ignite an explosive in your bladder, due to the water content of tissue etc. The bladder is an obvious weak point in our defense against evil. The scenario is simple, terrorist A with chemical A aboard pees into a secret vessel, terrorist B with chemical B does, BLAZAM! Solution: no restrooms on planes. Full bladders would keep us safe. Get used to it. Practice.

Laughed so hard I scared my cat. 

aMike

Does anyone know if the cargo on passenger planes screened at all - any kind of screening?

Jane, haven't seen your "handle" lately. Glad to see you back. I don't know the answer for a fact, but everything I have read states that there is no screening of cargo. On the other hand, mail is no longer carried as cargo, because of its vulnerability, and it goes on mail planes without passengers. Jan Knaus

This from the author of "the declining terrorist threat", july 10 2001!

Hard work has been done to fix this problem of detecting liquid explosives; thus far, it has not succeeded. calling people names is hardly a way forward. Saying thank you to people in the security services would be nice.

I’m curious if anyone knows about this. I’ve been swabbed getting onto international flights from the states. By swabbed I mean they take some sort of medical looking pad and rub it over your fingers, your bag, and handles on backpacks as well as my laptop. Then the run in through a machine. I asked what it was for, and the security guy said it was to test for trace materials used in explosives. Is this really what that test does? Where they in fact testing for drugs or something?

If that gizmo really is for testing for explosive components, are we really doing nothing to address this as an airport security issue?

Just asking…

Clark Kent Ervin, the DHS defector and whistleblower, described some pretty big holes in the putative security systems. He convinced me of something I'd suspected: much of the "security" belongs in quotation marks. But there are those, you can be sure, who are making money, political points, and powerful friends thanks to "security."

Bottom line: life goes on, nothing will ever make any one of us totally safe, so mush on and vote decent people into office who actually make a serious, non-profit effort to do their jobs.

I knew we could count on you to add some expertise. Within 24 hours I have faith there will be more. Thks Howard.

Yes, but I'd be happier if what he said didn't make so much sense!

The truth is, we can never figure out every way to thwart attacks. We HAVE to figure out a way to actually make a meaningful peace in the world. We have to take away the notion that mass murder is the only way to get your point across.

IE -- We have to learn to listen. We have to actually be diplomats. We have to learn to be citizens of the world.

Jan Knaus

I suppose full bladders will be forbidden on board too.

Oh my! You peoples are great tonight. The absurdity has neared it's peak.

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I can't stop. You are all VERY funny. Do you give lessons?

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Yes, it is a test for nitrate residues that are contained in many, but not all, explosives. There are several techniques to test the swab, most likely neutron or gamma activation analysis. I tend to think of gas chromatography/mass spectrometry as techniques for forensic labs, but they could be of use as well.

As to how well it's doing something, I was an undergraduate chemistry major but never a practicing chemist. Still, I can immediately think of a reasonable number of explosives that contain no nitrates.
--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

Almost every New Deal program was experimental and completely without precedent. There was no indication from the outset that any of them would work, even Social Security. FDR was merely attempting to be proactive in contrast with Hoover's recalcitrant attitude toward Federal assistance.

All I can say is that if I'd have known in 1983 when a friend gave me a dog-eared copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook that my government 23 friggin years later - after three terrorist attacks here! - still hadn't checked that shit out... well, I think it highly probable that I would have just checked out then and there.

What part of basic chemistry are these geniuses missing out on? A position paper?

Sigh.

No, I just read it somewhere.

             - tom stoppard
 

Would that be the famous Plain of Spain?

Not intentionally. Those dang revisions for political correctness tend to undermine their truthiness.

Reread FDR's comments for comprehension. Many of the New Deal Plans were, in some shape or form, already tried on a state level.

If that is how you read, skipping over pertinent content, then I don't really think it's the textbooks that are at fault.

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