Counting the Dead
Jonathan Zasloff has some questions, like "did the Europeans or the Arab League condemn the US or NATO for a 'barbarous attack' against civilians" during the Kosovo War. "These questions are not simply rhetorical," he writes, "Ha'aretz quoted Ehud Olmert last week as saying that the Europeans were in no position to criticize Israel when NATO bombing killed 10,000 civilians in Serbia and Kosovo. I don't know whether his numbers are right, but they are plausible."
Fortunately, this is a line of inquiry that has answers. Human Rights Watch reported in February, 2000 that "About five hundred civilians died in ninety separate incidents as a result of NATO bombing in Yugoslavia last year." HRW Executive Director Kenneth Roth, who was generally supportive of the enterprise, found this result worth criticizing: "Once it made the decision to attack Yugoslavia, NATO should have done more to protect civilians. All too often, NATO targeting subjected the civilian population to unacceptable risks." Obviously, 500 is a lot less than 10,000.
What's more, I don't really see the point in trying to compare the two wars which simply don't seem very similar to me.
so who briefed olmert that poorly?
August 8, 2006 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't really see the point in trying to compare the two wars which simply don't seem very similar to me.
What? Kosovo started when the Serbs infiltrated NATO and kidnapped two of their soldiers. When NATO bombed the everloving shit out of Serbia, the Serbs started firing rockets into NATOnic towns. The Serbs, who NATO had thought simply to be a guerrilla outfit, proved more capable than originally believed, and NATO started hinting that they wanted a force to stabilize things, provided by...I dunno; maybe NATO?
August 8, 2006 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, WTF? I remember reading that and thinking where does he get 10,000? Shouldn't the paper correct such a gross mistatement of fact?
August 9, 2006 6:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
What's more, I don't really see the point in trying to compare the two wars which simply don't seem very similar to me.
Exactly right. The threat to NATO from the Serb-Kosovar conflict was exactly ... ZERO. Which is far different than the deadly attacks by Hezbollah on Israel and the existential threat that the continued armament of Hezbollah by Iran posed.
All of which made the NATO attacks on Serbia much, much LESS justified than the current Israeli attacks on Hezbollah.
(As to a citation to Human Rights Watch - why would Matthew cite such a discredited group? Yikes - Matthew might as well cite Scientologists on the medical benefits of pharmaceuticals.)
August 9, 2006 7:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
BTW: here's Wikipedia on the civilian casulaties in the Kosovo conflict:
Obviously, 5,700 civilian casualties is not that far off from 10,000 - especially given that the Serbia-NATO war was so much less justified than the Israeli-Hezbollah war.
August 9, 2006 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Al,
Can you detail for me the justifications for the Iraq war?
August 9, 2006 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. But what does the Iraq war have to do with this post?
August 9, 2006 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Al, why is Human Rights Watch a discredited group? My impression is that they are well respected and call it like they see it. Where have they been found wrong in the past?
And, as to number of casualties in Kosovo, why do you quote 5,700 -- the highest end of the estimate stated by the Yugoslavian government that was a party to the conflict -- as if that is likely to be accurate? It seemst to me that Human Rights Watch, a non-participant in the event, is more likely to be honest than the former Milosevic regime, wouldn't you think?
And your logic, which states that NATO had no justification because it was not itself attacked, is insane. NATO was intervening for a number of reasons, including the prevention of a genocide against the ethnic albanian population, regional stability, etc. Clearly there were many thousands of lives, if not more, at stake. You do remember what the Serbs did in Bosnia, right?
I am not saying that Hezbollah would not be glad to kill many Israelis, but I don't think anyone can view the current situation, objectively, as presenting an immediate threat of genocide against Israel. To the contrary, Israel is the regional superpower, and it is therefore not surprising that far greater numbers of people -- mostly civilians -- are being killed north of the Israeli border.
Sorry, but NATO was on much more solid moral and practical footing than Israel is in Lebanon.
August 9, 2006 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink