U.S. Intelligence on Hizballah and Iran
Ray Close, an old CIA hand and genuine Middle East expert, sent me the following this am. It is worthy of your consideration and thought.
Larry
A few days ago, I received a report from a friend in Washington who has very close connections to high-ranking intelligence analysts at the Pentagon. I will omit the names of the individuals identified, but will summarize the information that this excellent source provided to me. (Please note: This source is NOT the one who told me a couple of days ago that the US would indeed be prepared to send a contingent of American troops to serve in southern Lebanon as an incentive to others, if necessary, to join an international force to impose and then help maintain a ceasefire between Israel and Hizballah.)
My source confirmed in detail the fact that intelligence being produced for the Bush Administration by the Pentagon strongly supports the thesis that Hizballah operations are directly controlled and closely managed from Teheran. My source considers this an exaggerated picture of the real situation. He believes that this assessment contributes to an unhealthy and even dangerous mindset in Washington, leading to potentially serious miscalculations and errors of judgment by President Bush and his closest advisors at this very critical time.
My source, who is much more of an expert on Iran and Hizballah than I am, believes that, dangerous and damaging as Hassan Nasrallah's actions may be to U.S. interests in the region, he and his movement are not totally under Iran's direction and control. He holds the view that although Hizballah, Hamas, al-Qa'ida, and the Salafi elements of the Iraqi insurgency (among others) may have many important interests and objectives in common, they should not all be regarded (and dealt with) as if they were tightly interlocking parts of a single worldwide conspiracy. This is apparently how the intelligence experts in the Pentagon tend to assess the phenomenon called International Terrorism, most particularly and immediately in the case of Hizballah's relationship with Iran.
When I received today's report, I wrote the following message back to my source. This is exactly what I said:
I agree with your estimate that Nasrallah makes his own decisions, and would not necessarily ask for approval in advance or accept direction from Iran on all operational matters. That would not fit my experience with any Arab who recognizes that a foreign party (Western or Persian) was trying to control and manage his affairs.
I also fully agree with your estimate that the enthusiastic acclaim that Nasrallah is receiving from both Shiite and non-Shiite Arabs across the region will intensify his natural tendency toward self-importance and independence of action. (His logistical dependence on Iran is not enough of a handle; Iran's leaders could not now succeed in imposing their will on Hizballah's leader any more than they could successfully challenge the authority and independence of the most prominent Shiite leaders in Iraq. In both cases, events have proceeded too far for that.) Nasrallah will, I'd guess, become increasingly more secular -- less the Shiite religious cleric, and more the pan-Arab and pan-Islamic leader in a bid to become the primary champion and action hero of both Arab and Muslim nationalism. (A European friend of mine, who lived in Damascus for several years studying the Palestinian rejectionist movement based there, tells me that for the past five years or more, when he walked into any Palestinian office in Damascus, from PDFLP to Hamas, the picture he saw on the wall was that of Hassan Nasrallah, not Assad or Arafat or anyone else.)
Nasrallah's charismatic popular appeal goes considerably beyond his Hizballah and Shiite constituencies, and recent "glorious victories over the Zionist enemy" cannot help but inflate this image further. Worrisome as that may be, our ability to influence the course of events will not be helped if we fail to understand what motivates him and who controls his agenda. He is not, and never will be, a little puppet of the Persians.
I am fascinated to hear your opinion that analysts in the Pentagon are such strong advocates of the view that Nasrallah is primarily an agent of the clerics in Teheran, and I am disturbed to learn that this analysis enjoys so much credibility at the senior levels of the USG. This is, of course, the point of view being pushed so hard by both the Israelis and the neocons in Washington.
I was equally upset to hear this view repeated unanimously (and identically) by a variety of people on national TV yesterday, coming from Senators McCain, Schumer, George Allen and John Warner as well as official spokespersons from State and the NSC. It was as if they were all reading from the same artfully crafted briefing sheet handed to them by some staffer who got it straight from either JINSA or the Washington Institute.
It is a dangerously one-sided point of view that furthers Israel's long-standing objective of luring the US into a violent confrontation with Iran. The ultimate consequence could be that everyone in the USG --- Democrats as well as Republicans --- from the President on down --- will, by such dangerously oversimplified logic and careless rhetoric, accelerate America's momentum toward:
(1) officially defining and treating Hizballah's actions against Israel just as if they were atrocities by international terrorism aimed directly at the people of the United States, and thereby:(2) making it almost inevitable that both political parties in the US will talk themselves into a "moral" commitment to aggressively confront those who encourage, support and harbor Hizballah terrorists (i.e. Syria and Iran), and thereby:
(3) making impossible the establishment of any constructive dialogue with either Iran or Syria in which other critical issues, such as Iraq and nuclear proliferation, for example, might be dealt with by means short of violence. In other words, this widely-supported urban legend is rapidly becoming another potentially disastrous conflation of biased intelligence analysis, simplistic political bombast and lunatic fringe right-wing Christianity that could drive us toward another major military confrontation --- whether or not that was really our carefully considered and intelligently reasoned objective.
I do not think I am overstating the danger here. Once momentum starts moving in that direction, we might soon find ourselves in another situation where stubborn pride, as much as anything else, would make it hard for us to modify our rhetoric and admit our inability and that of our Israeli allies to disarm and dismantle the military arm of Hizballah. It's a proxy war right now, but if our surrogates (the Israelis) fail to achieve their objectives, they will attempt very purposefully to broaden the conflict into a much larger one directly involving the United States and Iran.
We may be thoughtlessly maneuvering ourselves into another situation in which critical United States national interests are subordinated to the much narrower interests of Israel.
................
Ray Close is a CIA operations officer, who served as Chief of Station in Saudi Arabia, and a member of the steering group for Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity; his recent posts at No Quarter include "Bush and Blair Blowing Bubbles," "Truth in Simplicity," "From Rasha in Beirut," "U.S. Policy in Lebanon," and "HUMINT in History."



Comments (79)
Richardson, Bayh, even Howard Dean (!) this morning are trying to position Democrats to the right of the Republicans in unconditional support of Israel.
To me it looks like the neocons have all but completed a coup. They have manipulated the Democratic Party into affirming their foreign policy.
If you oppose your very scary scenerio, you have no major party left to make a case against blundering into a wider war.
July 29, 2006 9:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it's any great revelation to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that the neocons are effectively running the Israeli govt at this point (with civilian leaders too intimidated or clueless to push back), and that they are attempting to extend their great success in Iraq to elsewhere in the ME. There is a school of thought that chaos and war in the ME is the game plan, to destabilize Israel's neighbors.
The neocon elements in the US govt are also still firmly in control. Did they postpone their plans for June bunker busters because the focus groups recoiled? Is Lebanon their backup plan to bring the US into confrontation with Iran? The explanations being offered by Rice and Bush for the US' current posture are bizarre and laughable.
With polls looking worse and worse for November, conflict with Iran may also be Cheney's Hail Mary pass. Continuous talking up of WWIII has a purpose.
Still, I suspect they are in danger of foundering on the reef of rising gas prices. Exterminate all the Iraqis, Lebanese and Iranians you want, but spoil people's driving vacations at your peril.
But perhaps Osama has an October surprise that will help them out.
July 29, 2006 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
My advice to politicians is to forget positioning and framing and such.
My advice is to investigate, think and talk as if you were in office and really had to deal with the problems. If you are in a public office you are accountable to the public. I grant no one the excuse that they are not in power.
July 29, 2006 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I cannot agree more about the risk of the Administration creating a tightly linked enemy of states and non state actors that in fact have all sorts of different agendas and relationships. That simplistic thinking is incorrect and limits the options the US considers.
If there was any doubt in my mind Fiasco settles it. Having read the first 150 or so pages of Tom Ricks new book Fiasco about the thinking and decisons before and during Iraq we are starting an Act 2 that looks way too much like Act 1.
Your most somber tone here, almost devoid of your normal passion, is noteworthy. The adults left around need to speak up oh so forcefully.
July 29, 2006 9:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have come to the conclusion that all the main players in the Middle East are blind and delusional fools. Olmert. Bush. Blair. Rice. Maybe even Nasrallah too.
In this war of the blind, the only winner will be whoever can see with one eye.
It was this op-ed in Haaretz yesterday that swung me.
July 29, 2006 9:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have read 2 fairly long articles in the past few days about Nasrallah that lead me to believe he has vision. From what I am reading Nasrallah is a player with a long term strategy, a gut feel for exploiting opportunities and and a politician's ability to work the audience.
Helena Cobban, Hizbullahs New Face (spring 2005), talks about Nasrallah and Hezbollah's social services, electoral politics and a leadership role that includes the military but goes far beyond.
Annia Ciezaldo in a Beruit Dispatch (written now) describes what Nassrallah does as a leader and how it is received.
July 29, 2006 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
It sounds as if the administration is again seeing what it wants to see, a forest when it should be seeing trees.
July 29, 2006 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can we realistically engage in another war right now? With troops deployed and engaged in active combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus the large military force we have at the DMZ in Korea what is a realistic assessment of our current readiness for another military operation? But then again Bush and the neocons have never paid reality much mind. But one reality that they should acknowledge is how "war weary" the American public is right now...and the political ramifications of new military action without real provocation (sans a direct attack on us on American soil).
July 29, 2006 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
The blitzkrieg in Lebanon demonstrates an abiding belief in some circles that you can pound your opponents into submission with airstrikes.
The military doesn't believe it, but no-one's listening to them.
July 29, 2006 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
The military doesn't believe it
The military is right as "Shock and Awe" in Iraq and Israel's ground offensive into Lebanon in the last week shows...but as you point out, as usual the neocons will ignore "reality".
July 29, 2006 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Larry, do you pass on your information directly to any members of Congress? Seems like they're not getting the things you tell us.
July 29, 2006 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think this fits perfectly into the neocon war plan, which is based on ideology and power, where perpetual war is seen as a good thing, and keeping the populace in check is accomplished via fearmongering.
An accurate threat assessment is vital to defense, and as the article points out, this works against us by perpetuating the slide down to the Lowest Common Denominator.
Also, in a similar vein, though I don't deny that there are indeed many Arabs who would indeed like to 'drive Israel into the sea,' I think this viewpoint of a monolithic Arab bloc is damaging to Israel, as it confirms the worst, and thus allows for the worst to be done in response, in full self-justification.
July 29, 2006 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Larry: Your and your friend's complaint is that the US administration shouldn't divide the whole world into two camps: The very very good (that's us and our friends) and the very very bad (that's everyone else).
Now you're being very demanding, Larry!
2 is a big number, you know. You don't expect us to count to 3, do you?
And yo, Johnson, remember this: Russia is big and so is China.
July 29, 2006 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Libertine
It is highly doubtful that Bush would commit U.S. military forces before the November elections.
One of the surprising aspects of the Israeli/Hezbollah war is that a clear majority of Americans support Israel's position.
That support, in and of itself, could provide the GOP with the boost it needs to retain both houses of Congress; even if by slim margins.
It would seem as if yet another deployment of U.S. forces to another corner of the Middle East would surely lead to bad results at the polls.
It's interesting because the U.S. can broker a peace deal at any moment; all it has to do is make one or two exceptions that it has thus far been unwilling to do (similar to Israel's ability to negotiate peace with the Palestinians at any given moment).
Perhaps when the escalation reaches a crescendo Bush will make a concession, garner a peace deal, and hope the American public buys his diplomatic efforts as genuine.
Just a theory, but there is no American mobilization near Israel that would indicate American militry involvement any time in the next few weeks.
July 29, 2006 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is troubling that at the heart of our politicians claim of Syrian and Iranian control of Hizbullah, it is impossible to find any analysis of motives and goals. It is as if they all believe that Syria and Iran are being run by unpredictable madmen, unable to act rationally.
This is certainly not the case, and the advancement this idea that they are insane, coupled with their continued governance, contributes to the perception that Syrians and Iranians are less than human. Dehumanising the enemy is a method for making war palatable.
A recent brief published by The Power and The Interest News Report (PINR) offers some insight into the motivations and goals behind Syrian and Iranian support of Hamas and Hizbullah.
July 29, 2006 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, "there is no American mobilization near Israel..." that we know of, but how about near Iran. Some troops in Iraq have had their home leaves cancelled and more troops are being added to our forces already there. Perhaps they are needed in Iraq, but perhaps Iran is the issue. Anybody have a guess?
July 29, 2006 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Larry,
There's a lot of accusation of civilian targeting and disproportionality, and no really good substantiation. Do you think it would be feasible and useful for the US to publish, with due regard to system capability, analyzed imagery of both sides of the border, especially bomb damage assessment?
No, I'm not talking about full-resolution KH-12 output. If such platforms were used, it's fair enough to degrade the picture quality. UAVs might be appropriate, especially if low-observability.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
July 29, 2006 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems to me we're getting set up for another round of intelligence cherry-picking so we can have another big conflict, get a rally-round the flag effect, and have Republicans keep control of Congress.
Tom
July 29, 2006 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, they wounded two more UN peacekeepers today. Hard to believe that's random chance.
July 29, 2006 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not that I'm looking into the facts of what I'd like to think of as a progressive war, I'm not looking at what is seen as a doubtful, non-progressive, time consuming, and (obviously) not in fact, boring, objection to what I'd like to think of the way of the world. If your in fact not looking at what is seen as a "highlight" of what we see as the "progress of a nation."
I'm going to say that your version of Iran can be the only thing your running on for the judgement of Israel. Israel for the majority of the time is not going to go for a nation of what I see as a non-partison threat, it's trying for a nation of freewilling indepentdent people that know just what to do with the time they have.
July 29, 2006 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Bush administration never really let go its initial judgement that terrorism was a state sponsored enterprise and that the way to deal with terrorism was to combat rogue states.
As nearly as I can tell, there was never any substantive justification for that view. The linkages between terrorist groups and states is sketchy at best, and major 'operations' on behalf of states are much more likely to be conducted by the intelligence and covert operations detachments of those states, rather than by semi-free lance terrorists.
Oddly, the only recent historical example of 'rogue state terrorism' wherein a state supported, maintained and directed an actual terrorist organization would be Reagan's Central American wars, particularly the Nicaraguan Contras, Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador.
It's noteable that many of the people involved in those operations wound up back in the Bush administration in fairly prominent positions.
Projection, perhaps? These guys were up to their elbows in other peoples blood. Maybe they're just assuming that everyone else has to do it that way. Maybe its how they live with themselves and what they did.
In any event, any substantive analysis of Hezbollah, its history, personnel, funding and operations don't go far towards making it anyone's puppet. Rather, it seems to be a grass roots organization, partly self funded, partly funded by outside entities, including Iran and Syria. It appears to have strong ties to both these states, but was adept at playing them off against each other. Bottom line, its a free agent.
PS: I've been away for a while, but correct me. The suggestion that American troops form part/all of the international Lebanese peacekeeping mission... That was by a syphilitic drug addled crack whore suffering from a head injury, wasn't it? No one is insane enough to take that suggestion seriously, are they?
July 29, 2006 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Aussies are also reporting that the Israelis fired 3 missiles at a border checkpoint at Masnaa between Lebanon and Syria.
http://tinyurl.com/ne5gj
Just another one of those little booboos that the Israelis have already predicted they would make.
July 29, 2006 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Doubtful a war with Iran is in the offing. Granted U.S. military success would be more likely in Iran than Iraq, yet the entire premise is unlikely.
The U.S. military can and will defeat any standard army. Like Iraq it would likely succeed at pushing the Iranian resistence back into Tehran and other big cities; but also like Iraq its success would likely end there and things would stall.
Complete enemy capitulation is simply not possible unless the U.S. military is allowed to use its entire aresenal of weapons. This, by implication, includes the ability to bomb without discrimination; thus increasing dramatically civilian deaths.
More than likely what we are seeing is a two-pronged hope.
1)U.S. forces will help Iraq stabalize itself in the long term.
2)Israeli forces will help Lebanon stabalize itself in the long term.
A Democratic Iraq and Lebanon, it would seem, would be a good counter to the Iran/Syria influence.
The problem is that this might be wishful thinking though it is absolutely too early too early to tell.
July 29, 2006 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of the surprising aspects of the Israeli/Hezbollah war is that a clear majority of Americans support Israel's position.
That certainly would surprize me if it were true. Do you have a citation to support this claim? My sense is that Israel's attack on Lebanon's civilians would cool off support among a majority of Americans. But that may just be my political imagination trumping the real.
Neoboho
July 29, 2006 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
American opinion on the war and American FP re the ME is anything but "clear":
http://www.pollingreport.com/israel.htm
July 29, 2006 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe others at this site have spoken of this poll, but here it is.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/27/washington/27poll.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1154059200&en=5afed1095a20f963&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin
July 29, 2006 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
See, that's where we keep making this huge mistake. Initial judgment? Haven't we learned yet that there is no connection between Bush policy and reality, Cheney motivation and known facts.
Judgment isn't part of their vocabulary. The Administration doesn't comb through intelligence reports looking for truth; it leafs through them through looking for shards of justification and/or who to get rid of within the intelligence agencies if they're not coming up with enough shards.
We're almost six years into Bush & Co. Let's look at what they've actually done as a surefire way of predicting what they're going to do next! Kah-boom.
Is it a cheap shot to say I'm wondering whether the US in the first 8 years of the 21st century might qualify as an historical example? I'd call our current leadership very high maintenance rogues.
July 29, 2006 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Until it loses. Ahhh hubris, the pride that goeth before a fall. In the face of errors comes excuses, in the face of trials, more excuses, and eventually, in the fullness of time comes a defeat for which no excuses will serve.
Can the U.S. military defeat any standard army? Certainly. If you simply define "any standard army" as a third world military force lacking air power and two to three generations in equipment behind the US, with numerical inferiority.
I agree that by that 'any standard army' definition, America will kick ass.
On the other hand, America didn't do so well in Vietnam. And it didn't cover itself in glory in Lebanon.
The glorious roster of America's military successes currently runs to: Iraq (x2), Panama, Grenada, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Haiti... Each a veritable powerhouse!!!
Of course, one wonders how the U.S. Army would do if ever anyone manages to neutralize that vaunted air support? Or if the supply lines that supports the logistics of this Army were cut. How would the U.S. Military do in battle with North Korea... The South Koreans and Japanese really don't want to find out. The old Red Army? How about China's peoples army?
Ah, but this is just futile speculation.
The question is could the US military successfully take out a country four times the size and materially more potent than any it has recently gone after.
All things being equal, the answer might normally be yes. On the other hand... Saddam Hussein thought the same thing, once upon a time. Undercutting the invincibility of American optimism are potentially vulnerable supply lines, the lack of an army free to do the job, and the possibility that the Iranians might not actually surrender en masse.
The thing is, it ain't never a sure thing. It's generally a good idea to avoid wars, because there's always that chance that you could lose.
So... Are we talking nuclear weapons? Fuel-Air Bombs? Cluster Bombs? Moabs? White Phosphorous and Napalm? Sarin? Nerve gas? Anthrax? Botulism? Plague? Mustard Gas?
Is committing a 'war crime' a weapon in the arsenal?
And yeah, dramatically increasing civilian deaths would be the result. It would be the understatement of the year. You're talking about killing millions of people, and quite possibly genocide.
Well... let's see, American forces are actively helping to destabilize Iraq and have been doing so for three years. Prognosis is more of same and situation continuing to worsen in dramatic ways.
And Isaeli forces appear to be destabilizing Lebanon and impairing its long term viability, with a resounding lack of success in dealing with Hezbollah.
All I can do is add a third hope:
If those were the only choices, I'd say put your money on 3), because 1) and 2) are failing from the start.
July 29, 2006 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
America's darling and protege, the 51st state, the 'can do' country versus ... a bunch of smelly, swarthy Arabs worshipping a strange god, speaking an unfamiliar language and eating suspect cuisine?
Yes, it certainly is surprising that a majority of Americans support Israel's position, or at least, such of Israel's position as they understand. For the record, let me also note that it is equally surprising that the moon turns out not to be made of cheese and that the sun manages not to fall out of the sky and incinerate us all. We must admit to startlement that dogs bark and fish swim in water, which water amazingly turns out to be wet.
Given the historical narrative of Israel in American culture, as opposed to whatever narrative exists for Hezbollah or Arabs in general, popular support for Israel seems as obvious as falling off a log.
I suspect that anti-Arab racism may also have a bit to do with it. Very few politicians in America ever went too badly wrong betting on the inherent racism of their constituents.
July 29, 2006 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
PW, you are quite correct, I've mispoken myself.
The word I should have used, instead of 'Judgement' was 'Prejudice.'
As for the rest, I don't think history will have kind things to say about the Bush administration on any level.
July 29, 2006 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Personally, I'd have to say that a 'progressive war' is a contradiction in terms.
July 29, 2006 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, Valdron. You are a kind and optimistic person. I'm sitting here sourly wondering who's gonna be writing that history...
July 29, 2006 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
The NVA/VC was not a standard army, nor did they employ standard military tactics. The same, obviously, can be said for Iraqi insurgents.
A fight with North Korea or China would be interesting. If fought on a "battlefield" I do believe U.S. forces could absolutely defeat it. Air power and superiority of artillery would make it a close contest.
In my post, however, I was actually acknowledging that an Iranian invasion would fail. I tried to say that like Iraq our forces would push the Iranian army easily out of the open countryside but would then get bogged down in an urban setting in which no victory could be achieved.
July 29, 2006 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Point taken. I acknowledge a grain of reality in your bowl of hubris.
July 29, 2006 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is exactly right.
The Adminstration cannot fathom a foreign policy world of nonstate actors so they make into a world they want - dominated and controlled by state actors where non state actors are puppets.
July 30, 2006 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Iran bankrolls Hezbollah, and supplies it with its missiles and rockets. There are Iranian Revolutionary Guards (ballistics experts, I'd guess) with Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Doesn't this give Teheran some leverage over Hezbollah? How much, and just how it plays out, are very hard to ascertain, but my guess would be that the leverage is considerable.
There's also the Shiite connection between Iran and Hezbollah.
Sure, no Arab is going to want to be the mere puppet of the Persians, but there are many gradations in between that and independence. Exactly where Hezbollah is located would be important to know, but this post doesn't help much.
None of which is to argue that the US should attack Iran. We shouldn't.
July 30, 2006 7:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Hezbollah has several sources of funding, including Iran, Syria, Shiites in Iraq and the Persian Gulf, Saudi Arabia, local Shiites in Lebanon and itd own business enterprises. We don't know what proportion of funding Iran supplies, we can estimate that it is substantial, it may not be determinative.
I've seen no current evidence of this (as opposed to ten or twenty years ago). The only evidence or assertions comes from Israel, which is hardly credible on this point.
Some, I would assume.
Given that it is not the sole funding source, and perhaps not a crucial funding source, and given the unlikelihood of actual operational ties through personnel... some leverage, but how much and under what circumstances is questionable. They might have substantial influence in peacetime, no influence in war.
True.
Agreed.
July 30, 2006 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
For what it's worth--
I just found this NY Sun article:
Later on, the Arab diplomat is quoted saying:
And:
I'd love to know what country the diplomat is from, and how he knows this stuff. Maybe Saudi Arabia, as they have a Shiite minority to worry about? Maybe Egypt?
The NY Sun is rightwing, and the article is anonymously sourced, but I do not dismiss it out of hand.
What's the relative state of ballistics know-how in Hezbollah and in Iran?
July 30, 2006 7:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Iranian C-800 series antiship missiles apparently are based on reverse engineering of the second-generation French Exocet. According to globalsecurity, Iran may be able to make this missile itself.
While there's no question the Exocet has been effective, sinking British ships in the Falklands (1982), and damaging US ships in the nineties, with some of the US damage control based on lessons learned by the British, the Exocet/C-801 is not a first-line antiship missile. It is subsonic like the Harpoon, doesn't have stealth features, and probably can't fly extremely deceptive courses.
The US and Russia have gone in different directions with antiship missiles. Probably the most feared pure antiship missile, launched from a ship, is the supersonic Russian SS-N-22 SUNBURN, closely coupled to the Soveremenyy class destroyers. This class is the most potent antiship destroyer ever built, at the cost of area antiaircraft and more than trivial antisubmarine capability. US destroyers aren't so specialized. The Chinese did buy some Soveremennys from Russia, presumably with SUNBURNs. It is unknown if China has been able to reverse engineer and produce the SUNBURN. If they can't, they certainly aren't going to export a key capability for their ex-Russian destroyers.
As I mentioned, the US has gone in a different direction. Newer destroyers no longer carry the Harpoon, relying on surface-to-surface use of the extremely fast SM-2 ship-launched antiaircraft (and some antimissile) missile, and Norwegian Penguin missiles launched from helicopters flying from US destroyers and cruisers. Harpoon is being modified and enhanced into a weapon for fixed-wing (i.e., carrier or land-based) aircraft, and with improved electronics allowing it to hit land as well as sea targets. Guidance for antiship and land missiles tends to be quite different.
Ballistics is less important here than electronic warfare knowledge, as in Chinese/Iranian counterdetection/counterjamming. If a C-801 is detected, it's within the capabilities of US ship defenses (assuming they are turned on, the problem with one Exocet attack). Especially if the ships are assisted by land- or carrier-based radar planes, the chance of detecting the missile is high.
Should things get nasty in the Persian Gulf, I am far more worried about Iranian submarines, torpedoes, and mines than C-801s. The electronic warfare and self-defense systems of even a US frigate are much more potent than those on smaller Israeli corvettes, presumably of one of the Sa'ar classes. Did anyone hear a specific type identification of the Israeli ship that was hit?
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
July 30, 2006 8:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Howard,
You know a lot more about missiles than I do. Can you bring it back to whether Iranians are fighting with Hezbollah now?
Hal
July 30, 2006 8:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, acknowledged. But it's an unsourced anonymous informant, allegedly a diplomat, who seems to be speaking in a very undiplomatic fashion.
Colour me skeptical.
July 30, 2006 9:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have no way of knowing whether there are Iranians involved. They certainly aren't needed for the GRAD or Katyusha bombardment rockets.
For antiship or larger bombardment rockets, it's a question of training. If Hezbollah is trained, they don't need Iran. If they aren't, they do.
Even though this is rocket science, these are not terribly complex weapons.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
July 30, 2006 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
What's interesting is how our supposedly "free" media is acting in lock-step with the Bush cabal and Israel to push this spin that Iran is the cause of the war in Lebanon. Apparently, acting as mere mouthpieces for the old "WMDs in Iraq" spin was not sufficient. Now, read any paper and you're bound to get a dose of the new spin, repeated ad nauseum.
Aside from the old "Yellow Badges for Jews" lie that was cooked by in the Benador Associates spin machine by "middle east expert" Amir Taheri, and then was trumpted by the Murdoch-owned "news" (=propaganda) outlets such as the New York Post (which carried that item on their front pages with 16-point type, even after the story had been discredited) the "regular" media have a way of falling in line.
So, how "free" is our media, really?
July 30, 2006 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
The US bankrolls and arms Israel - and yet how much control do we exert over them? Heck, we can't even stop them from re-selling our military technology to China!
In any case, the Iranians openly acknowledge that they have some influence over Hezbollah -- though the Israelis and the US media kept referring to it as "Iranian-backed" in order to try to distract from the fact that Hezbollah is ultimately a native Lebanese organization that came into existence as a result of Israe's occupation of S. Lebanon, and not because of Iran.
July 30, 2006 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting view from a former Iranian official, which our mainstream media and pundits completely ignored (God forbid that the US and Iran start talking and threaten Israel's darling-of-the-Middle-East status!)
FROM:
The Forward
http://www.forward.com/articles/8151
July 30, 2006 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Remember Vladimir Posner, the Soviet "journalist" who spent his youth in the United States and spoke perfect American English? He was on Nightline a lot in the 1980s, giving his "analysis" of world affairs.
Abbas Maleki, author of the Forward piece, reminds me of Posner. Do you think for a moment that he didn't get official approval in Teheran to publish this article, especially when you consider where it was published?
It's not so much that anything Maleki says is wrong, it's that he's spinning like a top, and leaving out facts crucial to a solid understanding. That's his job here.
By the way, he says:
Also by the way, Posner the "journalist" told Brooke Gladstone in 2005 that he wasn't allowed to leave the Soviet Union for 38 years. He was a functionary, and I suspect Maleki is too.
I find this type very creepy.
That said, the US should talk to Iran, by all means. Just don't rely on what someone like Maleki says.
July 30, 2006 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Iraq was originally meant to be the staging center for middle east operations, including military aid for Israel, and from what I gather, some of the bases are finished. Your comment made me think that US troops in Iraq don't necessarily mean trouble for Iran. They could mean rescue for Israel, trouble for Syria, etc.
With more troops getting ready to deploy there, it is possible. And after reading about this administration's forgetfulness to tell Blair in Great Britian about US planes full of bombs for Israel, it's not clear what those troops are for.
"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber." GWB, 4/10/2002
July 30, 2006 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm fairly familiar with bases in Iraq, especially the largest, LSA ANACONDA, formerly Iraq's Balad Air Base. Iraq simply makes a very poor staging area. The reality of logistics are that large volumes of things come by sea, and possibly by railroad or truck from a seaport. Iraq has one easily blocked seaport.
It's not badly positioned to invade Syria, Kuwait, or Jordan, but any movements from that direction would depend on either existing stockpiles or what can be flown in -- and some equipment and supplies can't conveniently be flown. The Zagros Mountains get in the way of a ground movement into Iran. Yes, there is a port in Kuwait, and, with air superiority, it is of some use. Kuwait, in general, is a better staging area than Iraq.
There isn't even the Normandy option of bringing an artificial port, because there is no seacoast. If there were to be any sustainable operation to the south, it would require early capture of a port.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
July 30, 2006 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was a Rovian type of answer because the the NYT poll has 2 questions that go to the heart of US public opinion and Israel and Hezbollah.
What is your overall opinion of Israel? 20% said Very Favorable and 40% said Mostly Favorable. But the next question Should the US government publicly support Israel, or should it say or do nothing?, shows a different result. 39% said Support Israel and 40% said Do Nothing.
"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber." GWB, 4/10/2002
July 30, 2006 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, the NVA was a standard Army who applied tactics appropriate to the battlefield and enemy they confronted. They were smart enough not to seek set piece battles in which the outcome would be determined by who had the most firepower. They were recruited and trained in the same way that other modern Armies are built. General Giap was a genuis and the results of Vietnam's War of Independence bear witness to that fact.
July 30, 2006 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, what a suprise... bona fide Middle East expert declares that Bush Administration has it wrong with respect to Lebanon-Hezbollah-Syria-Iran etc. Big friggin' surprise. Whether the White House baloney is intentional or not, we should already know to handle with immense skepticism everything that Bushco asserts are facts.
But here's another angle for me. Remember how the Neocons tackled the Soviet Union? They presented it, convincingly enough for Reagan, as an "evil empire"... by conflating any vaguely anti-American influence in the world as part of the Kremlin's nefarious network. They saw Soviet fingerprints on every remotely socialist movement anywhere in the world; whether this was true or not, didn't matter. The narrative was key.
Now back at the CIA ranch, you knew that Bill Casey had been taken in by our own black propaganda. The Soviets did meddle abroad, but not as widely or as effectively as Wolfowitz, Perle and co would have us believe. You guys also knew the Soviet Union was collapsing from within. The Red Army was having its ass handed to it in Afghanistan, and no amount of Pravda airbrushing could counter the proliferation of dead sons and husbands. At the same time, nationwide, there were shortages of all essential goods. And not coincidentally, the labor movements in Eastern Europe were gathering steam, and the Communist system was buckling.
You guys at the CIA knew this. You guys knew Gorbachev was brought to the negotiating table not because the Gipper had new arsenal of ICBMs, but because Muscovites were going hungry. You guys knew this. But the Neocons hijacked the narrative and told us that it was their big, swinging dick policies that beat the Russians. And that myth still circulates today.
So how does this relate to the Middle East 2006? Well, now we are being told about Iran's evil empire as underlying the destabilization of the region. Iran has all its glove-puppet jihadists fighting US allies and attacking our interests.
Now what's up with the intelligence agencies this time around? Are they gonna let the Neocons get away with it again? The CIA, DIA, State etc must all know that Iran has given some generous help to Hezbollah, Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood etc; that they are supportive of the Shiite political movement in Iraq; that they won't disrupt the Taliban insurgency.
But the intelligence agencies must surely know that the leaders of these disparate groups aren't operating at the beck and call of Ayatollah Khomeini - that each movement is multi-faceted in terms of its interests, reflective of the fact it enjoys support from diverse groups. The agencies surely know that Iran, whilst having an interest in keeping these groups effective, doesn't micro-manage their tactics or strategy.
The agencies must surely know that the disparate Shiite Arab groups (like Hezbollah) and Sunni Arab groups (like Hamas) won't take orders from Tehran. They aren't the most natural bedfellows, their association is a matter of convenience rather than loyalty.
But above all else, the agencies must know that Iran is not nearly as powerful as politicians would have us believe. The Ayatollahs and their bagman-president do not exactly have an iron-grip on things at home, and certainly not an all-pervasive influence amongst their Arab neighbors. They are a nuisance, and they aren't easy to deal with (every tried to do business with an Iranian?), but the Iranian rulers can only cause unrest in the region inasfar as conditions permit, only inasfar as the Hezbollah's of this world regard it as in their interest to crank up the violence.
For our part, we gave the extremists the gift of a Iraqi civil war; we had a hand in Palestinian disintegration; and we're pouring petrol on Lebanon. We gave Iran the conditions that have helped the Ayatollahs consolidate power - and they've barely had to lift a finger. My guess has always been that the agencies know this, and now it seems they do.
So let's have more of this Larry. Perhaps a segment called "What the experts know and when they knew it".
Because we sure as heck aren't gonna hear the truth any other way.
July 31, 2006 5:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
The term "Arab" diplomat in this context is in itself disingenuous. The Arabian monarchists have no love for either Iran or Hizbullah, and instead view both as a threat to their political power. I think it is dubious that Iran would take as great a risk as to send troops into Lebanon, given the current situation, and that they do no want to actually see a successful Israeli/Palestinian solution.
What I find noteworthy is that the American Press seems to be ignoring the Iranian/Turkish cross border operations against the PKK.
A couple of other thing caught my attention in the Post article.
One was a cite of an org I am unfamiliar with, "an Israel-based research group, the Intelligence & Terrorism Information Center". A quick and shallow datastream dive came back mostly clean. Their website describes themselves as "The Official Web site of the Center for Special Israel Intelligence Community", they also use the domain, terrorism-info.org.il and their about page identifies themselves as a subset of The Center for Special Studies (CSS). It's head, Dr. Reuven Erlich, is a retired Israeli Colonel who as late as 2001 was still listed reservist, and a resident fellow at
The Institute for Policy and Strategy
The Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy and Strategy
The Inderdisciplinary Center Herzliya
which was also listed as "Inter-disciplinary Center, Herzlia", and "International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism, Herzliya" in referecnces to him
The "Center for Special Studies" is a bit strange in that the name is so generic, that it obfuscates the organisation in skimming searches.
No time or motiviation for a deeper dive presently.
The other thing that caught my eye in the NY Post article was:
Elliott Aabrams is a confessed reagan-era perjurer, considered rehabed on on Bush's NSC. Journalist Laura Rozen, whom i respect, covered it here, here, and here. the meet was also reported in the NY Sun, with a strange Cairo, Egygt byline. I smell Ghorbanifar in the background, and the Bush administration striking out again, swinging for the fences at a curveball low and away, in the dirt.
July 31, 2006 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Richad Perle is the Prince of Darkness, then Eliott Abrams is Dr. Evil. Eliott must have suffered a complete loss of self when the USSR tumbled. Lucky for him he has found new and better enemies.
And Ghorbanifar? He's Igor, usually found in the catacombs...eating spiders.
Neoboho
July 31, 2006 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, hot off the presses, the Iraqis have formally agreed that all their base and space belong to US:
"American Air Bases on Iraqi lands have been legally approved in an agreement signed between Iraq and the United States. The US signed a long term agreement with the Iraq administration to establish US air bases on Iraqi lands.
According to the agreement, Iraq, which has no air force, currently leaves control of its air space to the US, and will continue to do so after the US withdraws its troops from Iraq.
America owns air bases in Musul (Mosul), Kerkuk (Kirkuk), Balad, Bagdat (Baghdad) and Nasiriyah. "
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20060731&hn=35251
July 31, 2006 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Note that the source is a Turkish newspaper. No US or Iraqi sources were named.
To apply a reality test, I need a good map, as I find at least one possible conflict. The article lists a base in Baghdad (also called Bagdat). Baghdad International Airport was turned over to civilian use, with one of the main purposes of Balad Air Base, 50 miles north of Baghdad, being military air support of Baghdad. Balad, also known as Camp or LSA ANACONDA, is the largest US base in Iraq.
Of the others, without comment on the alleged handover, Nasiriyah is a logical place in SE Iraq, covering Kuwait. Mosul makes sense for Northern Iraq, as it is on the plausible invasion route from Turkey. Kerkuk is also northern, and the center of the northern oil industry.
If this is a legitimate agreement, I'm puzzled why none of the existing air bases in western Iraq, such as H1, H2, and H3, came under the agreement...or some base closer to Syria, even a new one.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
July 31, 2006 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Glad you noticed the source. The Turks can be canaries because they are very central to happenings in the vicinity. They have special & very helpful "friends" in DC think tanks, and Tel Aviv. Their port of Ceyhan is terminus for the just christened Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline(s) bringing oil now and gas later from former Soviet republics. The cumbersome route is pure (The Great Game) geopolitics at work and very beneficial to the Turks.
I hope you can come up with a good map. What are the strategic interests for the sitings? My hazy impression/memory is that the Kirkuk base is considered especially strategic for reasons having to do with less control from Baghdad.
Perhaps the "H"s are to fulfill a more localised function like protecting very promising petroleum assets and associated infrastructures.
July 31, 2006 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, H1 through H3 were in oil areas in the west, and were staging bases for SCUDs both fixed and mobile. Without them or an equivalent, the bases don't make sense -- why no forward base against Syria?
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
July 31, 2006 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not exactly sure what your complaint is, so lets not shoot the messenger.
First of all Iran isn't the Soviet Union. The press in Iran has a pretty wide latitude in discussing matters, certainly by Mideast standards. Secondly, Iran isn't hidden behind an Iron Wall -- Iran is one of the best Web-connected nations on the region, there are 500,000 blogs and Farsi is said to be the most common languages on the Web, people regularly travel back and forth from the US and Iran, and people can easily tune into BBC or CNN on wide-spread satelite TV and even watch the latest in hollywood movies on bootleg DVDs. Frankly the average Iranian knows more about us than we know about them.
Secondly, there is no one in Iran in charge of issuing "permission" to others. Iran's politicians form multiple, competing power centers that act as checks on each other. This isn't the Politbureau. But even assuming that Maleki had received "official approval" to write this - so what? That makes it something even more significant.
July 31, 2006 11:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps Syria isn't on our...to do list.
August 1, 2006 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another factor; could it be that our very well-established airbase at Incirlik makes such a siting overkill?
August 1, 2006 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Consider an airmobile operation into Syria. I'm going to cite some general capabilities. Yes, I know they will be affected by air temperature, wind, sling vs. internal load, etc. There may well have been performance tweaks since I looked at the detailed manual; I just have a rather aged Combat Service Support Guide at my fingertips
Especially if there's tanker support, Incirlik is just fine for fixed wing aircraft. The maximum tactical lift distance for a hypothetical CH-47, assuming fuel is prepositioned at the destination, is about 98 miles. If security or ground conditions don't permit ground fuel convoys, you need lots more helicopters shuttling the fuel blivits (flexible fuel bladders) to the next refueling and rearming point.
For smaller helicopters, in combat movements, one handbook recommends keeping tactical movements under 35 miles, presumably establishing temporary support bases every 35 miles or so.
Ideally, if you want to go after a country, and you have air superiority, you put your forward base as close to its border as possible, just outside the range of its long-range weapons -- and if those weapons are significantly inaccurate, you might take a calculated risk.
Your questions make me think you probably understand combat logistics pretty well, but I've found that to be a significant problem in the blogosphere -- people want military actions, but it doesn't even occur to them that the combat forces need fuel, ammunition, food, spare parts, etc., brought constantly to them, and that modern militaries need immense amounts of supplies 24/7. Oh, and don't forget that you have to provide fuel for the fuel trucks and food for the drivers.
*beats head against desk* the logistics for Darfur makes Western Iraq look like the LA freeways, but with no traffic jams.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
August 1, 2006 1:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of the dark prince, here's a speech few seem aware of. Check out the date; just barely two months after the WTC/Pentagon attacks.
Richard Perle, "Next Stop Iraq", Foreign Poliocy Research Institute (FPRI) Annual Dinner, November 14, 2001
Here's a bit of absuridty tossed in; the FPRI was founded by Robert Strausz-Hupé, an Austrian emigree who came from a royal loyalist family, and fled what he perceived was the coming spread of Bolshevism. The Habsburg monarchists ally with the Trotskyites to wage immoral war upon Iraq.
August 1, 2006 2:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tyrannies come in many flavors. This is from an article by Ben McIntyre that originally appeared in the Times of London in 12/05:
See http://myotherfellow.blogspot.com/2005/12/mullahs-versus-bloggers.html
Do you really want to argue that the head of an Iranian research institute can publish in an American Jewish newspaper all on his own, and stay out of prison?
The Maleki article is part of an official charm offensive, and its truthfulness -- of lack thereof -- should be judged on that basis.
I believe we should try to reach a grand bargain with Iran, but first we have to understand the regime there.
August 1, 2006 5:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think these bases are part of an Iraq or very near region strategy.
I have to find the article that looked at a basing strategy as part of a foreign policy of having bases spread all over the world, with backups, to ensure that the US can reach anywhere that trouble comes up. Clearly from a military point of view dropping the ColdWar basing strategy makes sense
I will also look for the article about a basing strategy that has both occupied bases as well as bases with everything in place and a light switch ready to be turned on to activate the base when needed.
As the Administration has never said we would not keep permanent bases I have always believed Iraq bases were either the side benefit of the war or a minor objective in the war.
August 1, 2006 7:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Larry --
Is this Boston Globe article view an accurate assessment of how Hezbollah operates and what characterizes their "troops."
August 1, 2006 7:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh? With only 3 months to go before Congressional elections, when do you think George Bush will get the memo? ">http://yglesias.tpmcafe.com/blog/yglesias/2006/aug/01/new_column>Currently, he sounds pretty clueless about this supposed plan.
Meanwhile, the chairman of the Democratic party said this "at a gathering of the Democratic Professionals Forum....part of a nationwide grassroots campaign to get voters involved in politics on a local level ahead of the November elections," and just before that "leading Senate Democrats said in a sharply worded letter that Al-Maliki's 'failure to condemn Hezbollah's aggression and recognize Israel's right to defend itself raises serious questions about whether Iraq under your leadership can play a constructive role in resolving the current crisis and bringing stability to the Middle East.'"
Are you sure it's clear which side is going to do more of the "rally round the flag" thing before the November elections?
August 1, 2006 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are qualitative as well as quantitative changes in basing, with several broad programs from the various military services. Some of this comes from increased aircraft range, and also trends that let a lesser number of aircraft or troops do more. Of course, we have to remember, as Rumsfeld sometimes forgets, the most efficient forces can still be only one place at a time.
From the Air Force, we have the philosophy of "Global Reach". All B-2 stealthy heavy bombers are permanently stationed at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri. B-1 heavy bombers, which for arms control reasons are at, IIRC, two permanent bases. There's a small number of B-52 bases.
With midair refueling, all these aircraft have intercontinental range. More as a demonstration than anything else, B-52s flew something like a 38-hour mission from US bases to the start of Desert Storm, nonstop back to the US.
In practice, if these bombers have to fly many missions, they may be staged out of a small number of very secure and isolated forward bases, such as Diego Garcia and Guam.
The Navy and Marines' slogan is "From the Sea", with considerable improvement in the flexibility of at-sea task groups. Ampbibious, surface action, and carrier groups are much better integrated than in the past. Again, secure locations such as Guam and Diego Garcia are used to preposition large "warehouse" ships, capable of unloading to a beach as well as ports, that save days of getting to the US.
Realignment of bases in Europe make sense. Many bases in the former West Germany were positioned to fight the Warsaw Pact. There are a few places where Germany is a central location, as for a regional medical center, intelligence centers, etc. As Western European bases close, there is interest in bases in Eastern Europe, closer to potential trouble spots and with a cheaper economy in which to operate.
When one looks at these other approaches, Iraqi bases make less sense, for example, even if a war against Iran were being planned. It's too easy to shut off sealift to Iraq, and ground movements run into the Zagros Mountains. Yes, Iraqi airbases might be useful for targets in northern Iran, but more of the targets are in the south. Southern targets would more likely be hit from seaborne forces, or bases in Kuwait or Qatar.
There are several degrees of "reserve" bases. I've mentioned the most ready, those on US (Guam) or UK (Diego Garcia) territory. The Eastern European and possibly Central Asian bases may be more surge-oriented. Also, there are some little-publicized efforts that have both nation-building and military aspects.
US Central Command has a relatively little known Joint Task Force-Horn of Africa. It has no current combat role. Special Forces, engineers, public health, and civil affairs units, however, can have both peaceable and preparation roles. Djibouti, for example, is in a central geographic location, but doesn't have much infrastructure. It's a win-win situation to build it up for its people while having friendships build with the US. I have a suspicion that US advisors are finally training local militaries in the kind of operations that are likely, as opposed to such things as training the 1950-ish South Vietnamese to meet a Korea-style conventional invasion.
--
Howard
*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*
August 1, 2006 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Howard, you are speaking to the military side -- the how, the military stuff.
I got into the military, in my above comment, when I should have kept the focus on the critical issue -- the Administration's shift to military as the main tool in foreign policy. From the Adminstration's view of worldwide threats, they then proceed to deciding that their foreign policy means they need to quick