Carefull Larry if you criticize Isreal Rosenberg will show up to call you ant anti semite who should join the Aryan Nations.

Sorry, but I have to call you an idiot. You obviouslly know nothing and from what I gather you dont care much for Jews. Let me go further and maybe you need and example: If Mexicans crossed the border and killed and kidnaped Texas police officers and demanded the release of Mexicans in US jails and the Mexican Goverment approved the action.....

If Mexico launched missles daily into the USA....

Please think before you write

Part of Israel's overreaction might be to make people forget about the IDF's spectacular screwups of the last few days:

o The capture of Gilad Shalit

o The capture of two soldiers by Hezbollah plus the deaths of 3 others in the same operation. (Something Hezbollah had warned it would do for months.)

o Falling into a trap that led to the destruction of a tank and the deaths of all 4 of its occupants.

o "Forgetting" to turn on the detection/deflection system on one of its most advanced warships.

Is "heck of a job" Brownie running the IDF?

Then you're an idiot=)

Thanks israeili-girl for making my point. Your hysterical, emotional, over reaction and misrepresentation of my piece is exactly why Israel is bombing a civilian airport in Beirut rather than hitting the Hezbollah military forces who captured an Israelie soldier.

I'm really shocked that you would even attempt to write something like this and try to pass it off as something a sane person would write about.

Israel doing terrorist acts?

Lets see; Who has killed thousands of people in bus, car, and suicide bombings? Who kidnaps soldiers and says "Let 400 of our prisoners out" Who turns kids into suicide bombing machines? Hamas, Hezbollah, Hamas, Hezbollah, Hamas, Hamas, Hezbollah, Hezbollah. So, please refrain from even TRYING to say Israel is committing terrorist acts. They're blowing up key places that either house weapons, strategic commanders, bridges which bring in terrorists or weapons and areas at which Hezbollah house their weapons/ammunition/leaders. Those need to be destroyed or Israel will face more kidnappings, car bombings and bus bombings. They need to stand up and destroy these idiots. Hamas and Hezbollah have been in power for way too long.

and Iran thinking strategically? I have nothing but laughter to respond to that. Let's wait until they make their weapons and annihilate that region, okay? I think that would be best. Let's give Iran more time to construct a massive weapon onto a rocket and use it again Israel(most likely) Come on, Let's wait.

I'll be frank and honest. Israel was going to do this sooner or later. They've been raped by the Arabic community by their bombings and kidnappings. How much more suffering does Israel need to take in order to gain their respect? Seriously, Israel has never started fightings unless provoked. Would you let American families be taken over by Mexican immigrants, held captive and ransom? I just don't see what you're saying.

Well there are two hypotheses to entertain here.

The first takes some of today's Israeli statements at face value. This is an operation that has been planned for five years. Its aim is to (i) separate Hizbollah from the Lebanese government and population, by holding all of Lebanon collectively responsible for Hizbollah's actions, (ii) cut off Lebanon, and particularly Hizbollah from the possibility of resupply and re-arming by destroying ports, bridges and infrastructure and (iii) by these steps bring Hizbollah to its knees and force its disarmament, or destroy it utterly.

Israel claims that Hizbollah is a terrorist organization. Critics counter that Hizbollah is a legitimate political party in Lebanon that participates in the democratic Lebanese political process and Lebanese government. "Fine," says Israel, "then all of Lebanon is responsible for Hizbollah astrikes against Israel."

However, taking these aims at face value, this seems a bad strategy. Hizbollah's main claim to whatever support it enjoys outside its own Shiite community is its success in forcing Israel to withdraw from the last Israeli-Lebanese war. Invading Lebanon only seems to reinfoce Hizbollah's claim to a reason for existence. Also, israel will not be able to cut Hizbollah off entirely, and others will intervene on its behalf in various ways. It is unlikely to defeat Hizbollah through this operation - just as they were unable to defeat them before.

So, rather than assume Israel has just taken a stupid pill - or at least not this particular kind of stupid pill - I think we should entertain a hypothesis that is more depressing to contemplate, but assumes Israel knows exactly what it is doing:

The US and Israel seek to provoke Syrian and Iranian intervention in the Israel-Hizbollah conflict, to provide a causus belli for expanding the Middle East war from Iraq to at least those two countries. Israel is helping Bush with his political problems, and his Iran problem, and is executing the first stages of a coordinated political-military strategy that will lead ultmately to major US military operations against Iran and Syria, a rather large-scale war in the region, and a geopolitical realignment and settling of scores that will be in the end to the advantage Israel and the US - or so they hope - after much loss of life of course.

This is the start of the big one.

Killing hundreds, if not thousands, of human beings serves no ones interest, including ours.

Excuse me..
You Pro Palestinian, Anti-Semitic NAZI Son of a bitch!

So Israel is supposed to sit back and let the Arabs shit on them? The ONLY thing I critisize Israel for is for letting the US/UN tie it's hands in the past. This is Long over due.

They gave up the Gaza, and the Palistinians used it to attack them. (Within 30 days) Lebanon is little more than a front for Syria. Critizize Israel for kicking Palastine and Lebanon? Look at what the US did under the Guise of 9/11 and fighting terrorism - we are still fighting and killing the innocent (yes, along with the not so innocent). If Israel wanted to punish the civilan populations of Lebanon and or Palastine They'd Nuke 'em.

(Wasn't it Palastine And Lebanon that Cheered 9/11?!)

These people have been fighting for a LONG time. Just grab a bucket of popcorn and watch the show. A few civilian casulties are to be expected, Be happy Israel is being as careful as they have been. Wars are not nice clean operations - people die, Good and innocent people die.

"They are not terrorists. They carry out terrorist attacks, but they are not terrorists."

With you being an ex-spook (CIA) I would have figured that You'd know better. Or perhaps it's because of jackasses like you that the world is in the lousy shape it is in now. Man, we gotta get rid of these Autonomons in our government and replace them with something more human posessing something more capable of unique thought. Prison is a club for Criminals, they don't fear it, they fear Physical retribution. (Of Cource leave it to the US to Ignore the GENEVA CONVENTION - Ref. Guitanamo)

Carl,
What an anti-mensch you are. Try dealing with substance rather than overreact and misstate what I wrote. I said, if you would take time to read, that Hezbollah and Hamas were something more dangerous than just being simple terrorists. Do you understand that or is it an intellectual point too complicated for you?

Be sure to contact the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and inform them that Larry C Johnson, Member since Ocotber 8, 1993 is actually a Nazi anti-semite. Bet you I'm the first one of them to send the Museum money every year for the last 13 years.

Sorry for troll-rating your comment but the name calling is intolerable. Calling Larry or any other posters or commenters Nazis or morons is simply unacceptable.

I've been on this blog from the start and I've always appreciated the fact that people express their opinions very strongly but always in a civil manner. Please do likewise or go vent your frustrations somewhere else.

These insanely abrasive negative comments actually do an excellent job of highlighting Josh's general point on the front page and here. The point being that the conservative elements of American Jewish community will simply not tolerate 1 iota of dissent on the topic of Israel.

This is irrelevent to the discussion, but for the record, I am a Jew, I have lived in Israel, and members of my extended family were killed in the holocaust. I will not be bullied into silence over Israel, and no one has the right or the moral authority to tell me to be quiet.

The offensive in Lebanon is stupid, wasteful, ineffective, and quite frankly cowardly. The poster has every right to point this out. The Israelis are in a literal sense trading civilian lives to minimize their own military casualties, because they are unwilling to take the casualties it would require to dislodge Hezbollah.

For all the flack Israel took for Jenin, most honest observers including many Arabs had to concede that Israel struck a military target, engaged the enemy on the ground, fought hard, took casualties, and won. That is how you fight a war and win respect. You demonstrate that your goals are important enough to warrant your casualties. If there are military threats that are unacceptable, you commit your men to the task, you attack the threat direcdtly and you eliminate it.

Call the substitution of collective punishment for the dirty, messy, dangerous but dignified job warfare what it is; cowardice.

Sharon would understand that Israel is demonstrating its weakness to Hezbollah, not its strength. Hezbollah will lbe emboldened and delighted to realize that the IDF is afraid to engage them on the battlefield. Isn't that what Hezbollah has been saying about the IDF for years?

Israel has a well trained and effective army, Hezbollah is a real threat and the goal to eliminate them is worthy. I’d advise Israel to stop killing civilians get to work fighting their enemy.

Ah. More lectures who have joined the thread with about an hour's familiarity with the discussion. Complete with ad hominems about anal-retentive lawyers. Sir, I enjoy eating shark fin; don't confuse me with a cannabalistic lawyer.

Since you apparently don't understand the difference between unguided artillery rockets used in single launches, and precision guided missiles, how do you know if the difference is important or not? Your words A missile in you sense might miss and the small rockets might hit and kill dozens!!! are incomprehensible, so I can't really comment.

While I am an associate member of the American Bar Association, I've never been an attorney, and my bowels are just fine, thank you. My ABA involvement tends to be in information security, privacy, and medical law.

Attorneys, indeed, might not know the difference between the AGM-114 Hellfire II, precision guided bombs, and 82 or 132mm Katyushas. Use of the latter, which hit randomly in two-kilometer circles, is a war crime when used against residential. Use of precision guided weapons against civilian infrastructure is also a war crime. See Parts II and III of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Why are there bomb shelters all over north Israel? Because it is being shelled and bombed. Why has Hezbollah been loading up with arms? To attack Israel for the purpose of affecting Israeli policies, just as Israel attacks Hamas and Hezbollah areas in an attempt to affect their policies. Neither approach works very well, does it?

--
Howard

*equal opportunity offense to both extremes*

Good point.

Haaretz keeps highlighting the "lessons" of the confrontation, i.e., that Hezbollah has even more sophisticated weaponry than previously thought. Oy...

I wish Hezbollah would go away, but the reality is that no one, not even Israel, can destroy it.
(Which is why I thought Rosenberg's post was well meaning but naive.)

So here's my prediction: in a few days/weeks, Israel will negotiate a release of prisoners with the usual 1 to 100 ratio.

That's the best case scenario. The worst case being... well, let's not go there.

PS That will give a few days for Bush and Olmert to explain why we don't negotiate with terrorists while we... negotiate with terrorists.

I guess, against all reason, I am trying to stay optimistic... :-)

Larry

I meant economically it will help the United States. A devastated Middle East will come to rely on the suddenly emergent American companies that sprout-up like dandilions in the springtime. What's more, a wrecked oil supply would allow us a reason to shift away from this barbaric petrolium paradigm that we're stuck in. Even Al Gore can appreciate that.

The term is "GOYIM" I think.

Thanks, yes you're right. Scenario 1. They will negotiate, there will be an exchange and this will end. The point of this Israel will say was to show Hezbollah the consequences of aggresive action . . . by killing secular civilians in Beirut of course.

Scenario 2. They really mean it, they want the war with Iran now, and they ar preparing for it. Horrfying I know, but its hard not to think about it. If my objective was to prevent someone from moving an army through Syria and into northern Israel, I might blow up some bridges and target power stations too.

Was it you who wrote down below something like its bad if Israel doesn't know what it's doing but its even worse if they know exactly what they're doing. That's exactly right.

My understanding, and I'm no expert certainly, is that it's Hamas in Gaza and the West Bank. Hezbollah is Lebanon, Syria and Iran. It seems to me that the approach being used by Israel only serves to embolden these groups. Hezbollah, in particular, has lost a lot of power since Israel left Lebanon. Their recent actions seem to be a concerted effort to provoke Israel into doing exactly what their doing which enhances Hezbollah's prestige in a good part of the Arab world. I don't condone what Hamas and Hezbollah have done but I do question the strategic thinking of the Israeli government.