« Gutting Labor Rights for Nurses -- and Millions of Others | Home | Meanwhile, In Gaza... »

Even When It's Bad, It's Good

user-pic

In a fascinating new twist on the tedious "what would Harry Truman do?" sweepstakes, The Weekly Standard's Noemi Emry takes liberal hawks to task for their Truman-invocations. Truman, she argues, perpetrated what we would now consider war crimes against Japan and totally screwed up the Cold War in Asia. The true heir to this dark version of Truman, she argues, is not Peter Beinart or Will Marshall but . . . George W. Bush. Most curiously of all, she asserts that this is a good thing and that the trouble with liberal hawks is their failure to adequately embrace this mass-slaughtering, blundering-into-war version of Truman.

More than anything else, I think this highlights the foolishness of the WWHTD? approach to national security policy. Bush's foreign policy is a disaster. Whether or not it in some regards does or doesn't resemble things Truman did is neither here nor there.


14 Comments

| Leave a comment

This bit from the linked Weekly Standard article caught my attention:
"the will to do what one must to save one's people, in the knowledge that sometimes men who do not like to kill are forced and obliged to kill in great numbers"

This jibes nicely with the Green Lantern post below, with one important addition I think. All conservative foreign policy is indeed based on the idea that "will" is all you need. The important thing to add is that for the right wing crowd, will is measured solely by the number of people you are willing to kill.

Bush has one thing in common with Truman: terrible poll numbers during his second term. Truman is well regarded today. That's the only reason Bush supporters even bring up Truman's name. Nixon would be a better comparison.

"Nixon would be a better comparison."

I don't think so.

Nixon foreign policy has not been discredited into the dustbins of history. Historians do not judge his foreign policy a catastrophic failure the way they have already started doing with Bush.

Nixon had all kinds of positive foreign policy accomplishments he could point to. Bush has been a complete disaster. There is not one foreign policy accomplishment. Even our allies hate us. According to a recent poll in UK only around 20% of British have a positive opinion of Bush. This never happened with Nixon. He wasn't beloved on the world stage but he was respected. He never became a laughingstock like Bush.

More than anything else, I think this highlights the foolishness of the WWHTD? approach to national security policy. Bush's foreign policy is a disaster. Whether or not it in some regards does or doesn't resemble things Truman did is neither here nor there.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  The liberal hawk argument is not about the similarity between Truman and Bush, it's about the lessons learned from Truman in his approach to dealing with a totalitarian foe and specifically what those lessons hold for DEMOCRATS.  What are those lessons?

  • Resoluteness: Truman came across as clear in his principles and didn't gnash his teeth making decisions.
  • Faith in international institutions: Truman and Acheson built the entire infrastructure of postwar diplomacy, a structure that Republicans opposed at the time and have sought to undermine for most of the last 60 years.
  • Judicious exercise of American power: Truman built international institutions partly because it would, to a certain degree, cosset American power, thereby building trust among the countries we needed to help fight the cold war.  More to the point, continuing American influence depended on NOT taking every opportunity to use force.

These principles are directly relevant to the argument today.  When staking out what a Democratic national security policy should look like, we could do a lot worse than keep these things in mind.

But the primary issue with Truman is that he sketched out a way to present a liberal national security policy in a way that worked in an American political context.  This is the lesson that left wingers never learn.  ONLY hawks win presidential elections.  ONLY candidates that are unashamed of American power and unafraid to use it stand a chance of building a national majority.  There are no exceptions to this rule.  If the Democratic party were to become captive to the kind of people who think any exercise of American power and influence is bad - and the influence of these people is growing - then we can expect to continue to lose, regardless of how incompetent the GOP is.

Truman was a mediocre president who now seems good in retrospect compared to the really bad presidents who came after. What he did have was a forthright manner which resonates with those looking for a man of the people to identify with.

There is a good analysis of how he was pushed into using the A bomb by the military advisors he inherited in the book Hiroshima in America: Fifty Years of Denial by Robert Jay Lifton.

As has already been pointed out, discussing who is worse than who is pointless, Cheney already qualifies as one of the worst presidents of all time. That should be good enough to allow us to move on to the important topics: how do we fix this mess.

--- Policies not Politics
Daily Landscape

Truman was anything but mediocre.

This link will outline his legacy on foreign relations, domestic policy and partisan politics.

Truman may have not done every thing correctly but he was surrounded by excellent advisors and did many things correctly. What is striking about Bush is the mediocre people he surrounded himself with and how he and they handled virtually every problem incompetently

Daniel A. Greenbaum

Nitpick altert!

I don't think that HST was "pushed" into using the atomic bomb by his military advisors.  Rather, since the inception of the Manhattan Project, the assumption was that the device (S-1) would be used.  There's an awful lot of evidence for this -- that it is false, in many ways, to speak of a "decision" to use the atomic bomb. 

There's also a fair amount of historical debate about the exact legacy of Hiroshima, something that was quite apparent in the upset over the proposed Smithsonian exhibit of the Enola Gay.  (Although that tended to pit historians against veterans' groups, but that's another story.)

PSA: There is a Users' Help Forum.

"ONLY hawks...ONLY candidates that are unashamed of American power"...

I have no patience with that. You could have written that about the German elections before they got humiliated by their monumental excess of hawkishness and unashamed use of power.

All this Truman blather reminds me of a bunch of 50ish guys competing to buy the biggest bike. Glory days or whatever. Whatever, Truman was President before I was born and I'm in my 50's so how yesterday it all is and how totally out of context with the US position in the 21st century. Truman inherited a nation still in the middle of a war that killed more than 50 million people. The planet was full of the hawks that killed them.

well now, let's see: i guess when lbj ran that ad in '64 that suggested that goldwater couldn't be trusted with his finger on the nuclear button, that contributed to his devastating defeat.

and surely it was carter's all-encompassing hawkishness that won him the '76 election.

and everyone knows what a hawk bill clinton was in '92 and '96....

Read the book and then make up your mind. Lifton is a well-known psychiatrist who has made a career out of studying "brainwashing".

His first book on Hiroshima dealt with the victims. 

--- Policies not Politics
          Daily Landscape

Your three points about Truman are generally accurate, and they speak to the reasons why he is well regarded as a historical figure.

But here are some other relevant facts:

  • Truman got the US and its allies bogged down in an unwinnable war in Korea, which caused his popularity to plummet below 30%. His successor signed a cease fire agreement to extricate us from the situation, yet remained popular.
  • The situation in the early Cold War, in which major nations were falling to communism, our enemies had the means to deliver nuclear weapons, and had conventional forces on par with our own, bears no resemblance whatsoever to the threats currently facing America.
  • ONLY hawks get the US armed forces, time and again, into disastrous situations which they make worse because they insist upon "showing resoluteness."

  • There are many lessons the Democrats can learn from Truman. For starters, a tough, no-nonsense persona is an asset when you're trying to sell the American people on a policy of restraint and international cooperation. Perhaps more importantly, he had the guts to stand up to the wingnuts when they called him a coward for backing away from an unwise fight, and Americans respected that.

    What he absolutely does not teach us, is that only "hawks" can win elections in America.

    Americans, by and large, are NOT "hawks." They want leaders whom they can trust to protect us in a crisis. They will not vote for unilateral disarmament or politicians who appear weak and hesitant. Most voters do not find leftist rhetoric about the dark side of American hegemony to be appealing. But they also do NOT want their leaders to get our troops bogged down in foreign wars. Such wars inevitably become unpopular over time.

    And liberals shoot themselves in the foot, time and again, by falling all over themselves to prove how resolute and hawkish they are.

    Topcat

    Every fair minded analysis has come to the conclusion that the bombs Truman dropped saved many more lives than they cost - starting with the 250,000 POW's that had dug their own graves with the promise they'ed be killed if one GI set foot on the home islands. Only the left with their Freudian need to hate America continues to stretch so tendentiously for such "war crimes" to justify their trendy alienation. That's why I had to leave the Democrat Party, that's why I [and a critical mass of swing voters] question their patriotism, and that's why they will continue to lose elections, despite the below-mediocre quality of our current Prez.

    On your way out, try not to let the door hit you on the back of the head, cowboy.

    Leave a comment

    Recent Reader Posts

    All Reader Posts »

    Inside Cafe



    Cafe Features


    January 5-9

    Book Cover

    January 12-16

    Book Cover

    January 19-23

    Book Cover

    January 26-30

    Book Cover

    February 2-6

    Book Cover

    February 9-13

    The Great Depression

    February 16-20

    Tear Down This Myth

    February 23-27

    Demagogue

    March 16-20

    Engaging The Muslim World




    Book Club Archive



    Masthead

    Editor-in-Chief
    Josh Marshall

    Site Editor
    Lila Shapiro

    Intern
    Claire Wilcox



    Subscribe to TPMCafe's feed.
    Subscribe to TPMCafe's reader blog feed.

    Advertise Liberally
    Share
    Close Social Web Email

    "To" Email Address

    Your Name

    Your Email Address