Sounds Like a Plan
Almost shockingly, this sounds to me like an Iraq proposal Democrats of various stripes might be able to unite around:
At a press conference this afternoon, Senators Reed and Levin, along with co-sponsors Feinstein and Salazar, announced an amendment to the Defense appropriations bill that would shift U.S. policy in Iraq away from the open-ended commitment of the Bush Administration. The amendment involves a phased redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq beginning this year, and it requires that the President submit a plan for continued redeployment by the end of 2006.This isn't, at the end of the day, what I would do if you made me President. But that's not going to happen, nor are any Democrats going to get made President. And a focus on shifting U.S. policy away from an open-ended commitment seems like a reasonably compelling baseline that at least everyone to the left of Joe Lieberman could be down for.
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Sorry for the off-topic comment, but could we somehow get the "Continue Reading Here" tags not to appear on posts that don't continue?
June 20, 2006 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
When Something Is <= Nothing Cross post
June 20, 2006 9:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Politics is the art of compromise, or that's what I have been taught. So, considering that nothing more extreme than this is even remotely possible with Bush as president, and a Republican Congress, I agree that this is a good idea. I think Democrats need to start talking about the "war in Iraq" as having already been won, we did get rid of Saddam as its leader, and the "occupation" no longer is needed, since Iraq now has its elected government in place. So, what is needed is a plan for the transition of an occupied Iraq to a truly sovereign Iraq. The Reed, et al proposal seems just about right.
Hoppy in Sacramento
June 20, 2006 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
However much sense this "phased redeployment" plan might or might not make, it ain't gonna happen for a number of reasons (of which the overriding fact that troop deployment policies are in the hand of the President, not Congress is just one).
Besides its vulnerability to charges of "cut-and-run" from the usual supects, committing the US to a withdrawal policy would force the Bush Administration to have to face up to yet another unresolved issue about Iraq: the matter of permanent US bases there. Not so much an "if" at this point (from all account, said bases are already in the process of construction) - but whether or not these facilities will be maintained without the express consent of the "independent" Iraqi government - which, having been officially declared to be a "democratic" one presumably reflects the will of the Iraq people (who may or may not want a bunch of foreign military bases on their territory).
The Administration has begged this issue since the beginning, and a timetabled withdrawal plan will only force them to have to have to decide: either to pressure the Iraqis to accept bases - or go ahead and build/occupy them regardless: sort of Mideast Guantanamo Bays.
Either way, the Bush gang would never stand for any plan which would force them into any situation which cannot be dealt with by deflection and sloganeering.
More's the pity.
June 20, 2006 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Levin-Reed amendment proposal has no beef so it can't unite the party. The Kerry-Feingold proposed amendment gets the job done for me and most anti-occupation Democrats, I hope, but I think will not please pro-occupation forces in the party. Check it out:
Democrats to propose withdrawing US troops from Iraq within one year
... "What was promised to the American people to be a rather uncomplicated effort by America to rid Iraq of a dictator has turned out to be a war that has gone on for more than three years -- with no end in sight," US Senator Dick Durbin said on the Senate floor.
"This week, the Senate will have a chance to say to the Iraqi people that as of the middle of next year, this becomes your responsibility," Durbin, the number-two Senate Democrat, said in a preview of the debate expected to take place Wednesday or Thursday. ...
One of the primary authors of the legislation, Senator John Kerry, told US television Tuesday that 12 months is "more than enough time ... to do what has to be done to get our troops home, and to get the Iraqis standing up on their own."
"America's presence is part of what is lending to the insurgency itself. And if the Bush administration can't understand that -- can't begin to move to address it -- then our kids are being put at greater risk than they ought to be. And that is not the kind of leadership they deserve.". ...
June 20, 2006 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
This sends the message that the Dems view the situation differently AND have a plan. If the GOP wants to run on "Stay and Pay" as Murtha put it on Meet the Press, let them go ahead and do so. We know what the public thinks about Iraq these days, regardless of the capture of Zarqawi and whatever other monumental achievements the administration wants to tout.
June 20, 2006 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
It will still put all of the pro-continued occupation Dems on record, which counts for something, even if they can't be held immediately accountable. Most of them are running for re-election or President anyway. Think about the bind this will put Lieberman, Biden and Hillary in.
June 20, 2006 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Japan's out. Maybe we should follow their lead?
Japan's face-saving exit from Iraq
Jun 21, 2006
By Hisane Masaki
TOKYO - After several twists and turns, Japan finally made a long-awaited announcement on Tuesday that it will withdraw its troops from Iraq, a decision that will allow the nation to play on its own ground in post-war Iraq: economic cooperation.
Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi announced that some 600 Ground Self-Defense Force (GSDF) troops stationed in the southern Iraqi city of Samawah would return home. ...
June 20, 2006 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
Marmot Malarky
June 20, 2006 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
And we should be grateful that they didn't speak of a "sea change" like Lindsay Graham?
I think not. I may have been born at 11:30 at night, but I didn't fall off the turnip truck LAST NIGHT or Saturday night
June 20, 2006 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
And to the 2 useful idiots who gave me a 1 You can get in touch any old time. Bring it on marmots - in public or n private.
I'm calling bullshit If not courage, it is time to demand accountability
Sound like a plan?
June 20, 2006 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Constitution licenses Congress, not the President, to raise and maintain an army and to wage war. But how many Americans believe that after watching this Congress? Bush has shown more disdain for Congress than any president in history. Even with the most compliant lapdog Congress, he still uses secret executive orders, signing statements, recess appointments, and other quasi-legal means to ignore them. The Unitary Executive never needs the veto because the King rules.
Bush is the decider and he will run this war the way he wants. Any proposals from Congress are strictly political (and Republicans understand this). To see the Republicans kissing his ass, er, I mean "supporting our troops" and "staying the course" is nothing new and doesn’t change the political dynamic. But Democrats are only exposing their impotence when they plead for some half-baked, watered down compromise resolution that will be slapped down by the weeny Republicans. Murtha and Feingold seem to be the only ones standing up and screaming bullshit on Bush.
June 20, 2006 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
At the end of the day, the choice is between War Party Democrats who continue to try to have it both ways and those who take responsibility and speak the truth plainly. The choice at the end of the day is between, as Bob Shrum put it, between those who are still wedded to a course which is, less than nothing, "which morally wrong and politically stupd".
At the end of the day, the choice is between cowards with as Kiven Phillip's said, "an instinct for the capillaries" and those who seek the War Party Jugular.
Kerry, Feingold Boxer finally got it
At the end of the day, this is what I am down for
That is a plan
June 20, 2006 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the Feinstein/Dodd article:
"Priorities for the new Iraqi government must include:
-- Using the Iraqi military and police to stop the violence;
-- dissolving the sectarian militias and roving death squads...."
...and then--since that shouldn't take them more than a few days if they put their minds to it--maybe they can invent a cure for cancer and a perpetual-motion machine. Senator Feinstein, Senator Dodd, listen closely: stopping the insurgency is not within the means of the Iraqi government, now or anytime soon. We started this war on the basis of blatant lies and schoolyard-bully attitude, but if we pull out all our troops anytime in the forseeable future, the situation in Iraq is likely to get get far worse.
Both the Levin-Reed and Kerry-Feingold bills seem entirely political, and as out of touch with the facts of the situation as the Republican mindless-stay-the-course approach is. This should be about solving the problem, not scoring political points. And neither party, in my opinion, seems to want to deal with that.
June 20, 2006 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I rated you up to counter those 1s, they are totally uncalled for an clearly an abuse of the ratings system
June 20, 2006 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Both the Levin-Reed and Kerry-Feingold bills seem entirely political, and as out of touch with the facts of the situation as the Republican mindless-stay-the-course approach is. This should be about solving the problem, not scoring political points.
I think there is a very simple reason why no one has a realistic plan to "deal with the situation" and that is there is no solution. Unless you want to put in 500,000 troops, assumign you can miraculously create them, there is no way to militarily accomplish anything in Iraq.
I've been saying forever that Iraq is now an internal political problem. Either they want a single multi-ethnic/multi religion country that protects minority rights or they don't. They will either work it out, split into 3 countries, or one group will dominate the others, before or after a civil war.
All the US military is doing is treading water because Bush won't admit failure. His stay the course plan is in reality a stalling tactic so his sucessor gets blamed for failing in Iraq rather than him; or if the Dems win either the house or Senate they can withdraw and blame them.
June 20, 2006 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
That's no plan....that is more BS from the same leaders who tried to have it both ways twice - 2002 - 2004.....2006 without this Democrat
June 20, 2006 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
"The President will not bring an end to this war. This Congress will not bring an end to this war, absent the Murtha Resolution. But the American people will certainly bring an end to this war. They will do it in the streets. And they will do it at the ballot box. The American people will become the Out of Iraq Caucus."Rep Dennis Kucinich June 15, 2006
June 20, 2006 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Kerry proposal might put them in a bind but the other proposal is phony. You either get out or you play to win. The idea that Congress is going to monitor Bush's progress as if war is a "Leave no Child Behind" program is silly, silly, silly. Every time push comes to shove, the Feinstein and Biden crowd will cave. Oh, they'll whine and nag and moan a little on camera, but they will cave. This is just Vietnam deja vu. Decisions on war made purely for political positioning.
I'd never vote for Lieberman but I can admire his character. He actually believes in something. The Democratic Party's fundamental flaw is that is has no character. It has no courage.
Either choose the hard road of war or choose the hard road of peace.
June 20, 2006 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the perspective of a"Pottern Barn" Democrats, the "plan" is palatable. From the perspective of policy, anything that avoids the two poles of Bush's mindless "stay the course" and doves "bring 'em all home now" is worth considering. No one denies that the Bush strategy isn't working, but a precipitous withdrawal would lead to chaos that makes the current situation look positively rosy. Contrary to the cries of the doves, there are certainly worse things than a prolonged American involvement - and a Iraqi version of the Khmer Rouge coming to power would be one of them. A signigicantly reduced American footprint but a long-term commitment gives Iraq the best chance of a semi-decent outcome.
From the perspective of politics, the "plan" takes the debate away from the false choices of "cut and run" and "stay the course" and forces it back on to where it should be - accountability for the Bush administration. The Dems are not going to win by running for any of the various bad policy options on Iraq, but they can run against the worst policy option of auto-pilot until 2009 offerred by Bush.
June 20, 2006 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Prolonged American involvement is the Bush policy.
June 20, 2006 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dissolve the "roving death squads"? No more $55,000 white Toyota Land Cruisers? No more Glocks and bullet proof vests?
What would our valiant special forces trainers have left to do?
June 20, 2006 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
"there are certainly worse things than a prolonged American involvement - and a Iraqi version of the Khmer Rouge coming to power would be one of them."
For who? US troops or Iraqis?
For US troops, prolonged American involvement IS the worst that can happen - because it guarantees that they will end up getting clobbered in a civil war they have no ability to prevent.
Pull the troops out now. Let the Iraqis worry about being the "Khmer Rouge" - we don't need to, since we didn't worry about the REAL Khmer Rouge.
And once again, as I've said, NOBODY has ANY evidence that the US military presence is preventing or can prevent an Iraqi civil war. Just because an all-out civil war on a par with some past historical examples doesn't appear to be in full swing yet in Iraq doesn't mean it won't be at any time. What IS clear is that things are getting worse and the presence of US troops is NOT preventing that trend.
June 21, 2006 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
"if we pull out all our troops anytime in the forseeable future, the situation in Iraq is likely to get get far worse."
So what? For whom?
If you don't know what you are doing, stop what you're doing. No action is better than wrong action (there are exceptions, but this isn't one of them.)
June 21, 2006 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
That resolution as much as anything is a cover for Hillary's double talk. She'd do well to watch what is happening to Lieberman
June 21, 2006 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
I submit it is not a matter of "hawks and doves" nor "liberals and conservatives". I submit that Brent Scowcroft, John Batiste, Anthony Zinni, William Odom et.al. are neither dove-like nor leftists. I submit that it is a matter common sense of the sentient sane that there is nothing worse than prolonging the Greatest Strategic Disaster in the history of the United States
June 21, 2006 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
Thanks EWK but isn't ratings system abuse that bothers me. Hell give me all the "1"'s y'all want just give me the courtesy of accountability - give me a reply to the 1-rated post so that we can join issue. Frankly I prefer 1's who disagree to 4's in agreement.
June 21, 2006 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
Scheer here
June 21, 2006 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
So too opined Matt Yglesias a couple days bact, yet this is the Feinstein-Reid non-binding resolution (where's the anti-censure crowd now!).
How then did last week's gibberish become this week's plan?
Inquiring minds want to know the author(s) of email or the phone call.
June 21, 2006 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
The Intifada rages. This just in from Boxer's PAC for a Change
Tell your Senators you support the Kerry/Feingold/Boxer effort to redeploy U.S. troops from Iraq within the next 6 months, or sooner -- email your Senators today!
June 21, 2006 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
God, Boxer...
Another loser like Feinstein.
Heard a story about Boxer once on a radio talk show. The host was talking to a Senate intern who related that while Boxer always puts up a front of being "somebody's nice mom" that it really isn't the case. One day Boxer was entering the Senate chamber and tripped. When people rushed to help her up, she snapped, "Get your hands off me!"
Putting the words "political integrity" (is that different from REAL integrity?) next to Boxer or Feinstein is a joke.
I emailed Boxer back when Peter DeFazio was pushing a resolution to get Bush restrained from initiating an attack on Iran. Her response wouldn't take a stand. Feinstein's response totally ignored Iran and talked only about Iraq. These morons can't even read.
June 21, 2006 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
J. McCutchen "JmacSF"
San Francisco. CA
Would somebody give her something useful to do?
Morally wrong, politically stupid, a national security nincompoop
GibberishJune 21, 2006 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to hear more Dems talk about winning in Afghanistan. We need to do at least that and that's where bin Laden is.
June 22, 2006 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink