What Kind of Guest Worker Program
There's little gain in my mind from any guest worker program-- if more workers are needed in an industry like agriculture, they should be admitted as potential citizens. That said, people should keep in mind in this debate that there are two radically different kinds of guest worker programs. One gives guest workers the right to switch employers during whatever time they are allowed in the country. The other ties them to only one employer-- who can then terminate their residency in the country at any time by firing them.
This latter form of guest worker program was yesterday declared by the Israeli Supreme Court to be a a human rights violation and a "modern version of slavery" that " compromises the basic rights of migrant workers. It hampers the inherent right for liberty, freedom of action and threatens the autonomy of the free will." Such a limit on an ability to leave an employers puts the guest worker at the mercy of abusive supervisors and deprivation of any real labor rights. So a word from the wise in a country with pervasive use of guest workers.
OK, this is just off the top of my head so it's worth what you've paid for it. But....Maybe the solution to migrant workers in the 21rst century is to have a world wide union (IWW anyone?) that would represent the interests of these workers.
One of my more out-there ideas would be to have full citizenship granted upon signing up for union membership. Viva La Huelga! Let's organize the world.
Anyone think that there is a kernal of a solution within this idea?
March 31, 2006 7:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
The rhetoric being spewed on both sides of this issue is absurd. Republicans ARE NOT racists because they wish to document those who are non-citizens living and working in this country. On the other side, Democrats ARE NOT unpatriotic because they feel our borders should remain open with moderate enforcement. A simple compromise, which both parties seem to be skirting around, is that illegal immigrants should be allowed to live and work in the United States as long as there is documantation. They SHOULD have certain rights regarding employment regulations, healthcare opportunities, and safety provisions. Should these immigrants be forced to pay taxes on income? Absolutely. There are no free lunches in Capitalism.
March 31, 2006 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are "free lunches in Capitalism." Right now to the folks who are getting the free lunches are the employers (captialists) who are not paying employee related taxes.
Ron Byers
March 31, 2006 8:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
My experience with "guest worker" programs is that it's nothing more than indentured servitude. Every year, an amusement park near us brings in a plane load of "guest workers" from Eastern Europe. They pay the kids 6 bucks an hour, (and local kids 8 bucks an hour to compete with the restaurants and other tourist business in the area) and then charge them for room and board at the local college dorms, uniforms, cleaning the uniforms, health care and transportation to and from the park in school buses and work them in ten hour shifts. It reminds me of the mine owning towns with the mine owning company store - "meet the new boss, same as the old boss..."
March 31, 2006 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
" Republicans ARE NOT racists because they wish to document those who are non-citizens living and working in this country."
From today's New York Times (available here: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/washington/31immig.html )
Representative Dana Rohrabacher, Republican of California, dismissed arguments made by President Bush and business leaders who say the United States needs a pool of foreign workers. He said businesses should be more creative in their efforts to find help and suggested that employers turn to the prison population to fill jobs in agriculture and elsewhere.
"Let the prisoners pick the fruits," Mr. Rohrabacher said. "We can do it without bringing in millions of foreigners."
Well, I guess some Republicans ARE racists. Further, the entire strategy of a substantial portion of the Republican party on immigration is to fan racial fears and appeal to xenophobia. I guess we have been unfair, Republicans are not racists, they are just acting like racists so that they can win some elections.
March 31, 2006 8:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are plenty of free lunches in Capitalism. Amazingly enough, they all go to the rich and powerful.
Dissent Protects Democracy
March 31, 2006 8:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
By Golly! Mr Rohrabacher has the solution to all of our industry problems. If we just use prison labor for manufacturing we can once again compete in this world. We can manufacture automobiles, televisions, DVD players, computers, everything!! And, all of those products will be cheap. Labor shortages will be eliminated forever - if one ever threatened, we just pass a new law making something a crime punishable by imprisonment. Whoa! Let's just bypass the process of arresting, trying and imprisoning - let's just pick a group of able bodied, easily trainable semi-humans and sell them directly to the businesses! (I'm on a roll here!) This has just got to be the newest idea and coolest idea ever to come down the pike.
Is it time for a compromise yet? Ok, so lets try a good compromise. Instead, lets identify an impoverished area with lots of able bodied, easy to train people, and sign them up as "guest workers" - almost as good a result, less effort to get them in place as productive units, and utopia is at hand!
Hoppy in Sacramento
March 31, 2006 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's a kernel of a solution. But, to start with a more obtainable solution, why don't we just enforce some of our laws - take the law that says every employer has to pay FICA and withhold Income Tax for all of their employees, which means they all have to have social security numbers. Then, we could change the laws that let businesses interfere with workers organizing a union. Then we could allow the unions that are formed to exercise the power that unions need to ensure that businesses play fair.
Then, we can look at the IWW again.
Hoppy in Sacramento
March 31, 2006 9:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
wquine
I would say Mr. Rohrabacher is more of an imbecile than a racist. I would wager that his district is comprised of middle-aged, white business owners who pull in figures starting in the six figures. Pandering is a bit of a problem in politics these days.
March 31, 2006 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
As I recall, the SSA, Commerce and Labor and USCIS came up with a method for actually checking I-9 documentation, in realtime, via a website. It is a pilot, voluntary program and was so sucessful that employers demanded that its funding be cut and that it not be implemented. Actually verifying eligibility for employment would drastically reduce illegal immigration.
http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/SAVE.htm
March 31, 2006 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, Rohrabacher has a great idea here. Prisoners are an untapped source of cheap labor, and it would be good for them also. After all, arbeit macht frei, right?
March 31, 2006 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a horrible horrible idea a guest worker program is. Its only one very sublte and minor point away from slavery again, which is that there is some sort of payroll.. Although much smaller than mine would be.. but theyll still pay taxes for infrasturcure and services they cant really use...
What a brilliant and humane plan being thrown around by Bush. Tell you what.. why even pay them.. lets just give them food and a place they can sleep in, and then well call it even. We might as well even *HELP* them get over here, since they may not have enough money to make it from mexico to kansas, or from haiti to california, or from the congo to south carolina.. so we can just send big boats and trucks to assist them in this move..
March 31, 2006 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's the SAUDI program--TCN's--third world nationals--are imported in to the country to do all the work that the Saudi's "won't do."Nice--the US becomes more like Saudi Arabia every day. ;(
March 31, 2006 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
And don't ignore the beautiful symmetry of Rohrabacher's argument: since they are illegal immigrants, we can arrest them all and turn them into prisoner labor. For prisoners arbeit macht frei, and for employers arbeit ist frei. Everybody wins!
March 31, 2006 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks hoppy. I guess I was trying to get at the idea of using this debate to further the idea that labor should have the same ability to move as capital along with the same protections, incentives etc.
March 31, 2006 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interestingly this description:
"The other ties them to only one employer-- who can then terminate their residency in the country at any time by firing them."
applies to the H1-B visa program under which I came into the US. Several other programmers that I knew on H1-Bs, had exactly this happen to them - company brought them over, didn't find work for them, charged them room & board, etc. They ended up owing the company money, and weren't able to stay in the US. These were college graduates working on computer systems, so not exactly oppressed labourers, but nonetheless victimized.
At that time - early 90s, I don't know the situation now but would be surprised if it had changed - it was an open secret that H1-Bs earned about 60-70% of the going rate for programmers with the same skill set, simply because of the indentured nature of the program. We all just stuck with the company and hoped for an eventual green card. I'm not complaining, was very happy to have the opportunity, but still.
March 31, 2006 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that the indentured servant model is inhumane and should be fought, but I'd like to address what I see as an unconscious premise underlying all these ideas -- that any guest worker program's fundemental purpose is to act as a safety valve for Mexico's corrupt, dysfunctional political system.
I think any rational set of standards, starting with English language fluency, useful skills or work history, etc., applied on a nondiscriminatory basis would redirect the guest worker slots to India or China, not south of the border. Workers from those countries could be given a six month to two year license to participate in our economy and then be transported home. With the geographical and cultural differences I think we would have a much more mutually beneficial transaction, that could be managed and enforced much better.
I think an unforeseen benefit/motivation to the young men in those societies is they would be escaping a system where men outnumber women due to gender specific abortions over the last two decades.
Topcat
April 1, 2006 6:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
if they were documented, they wouldn't be illegal. Just sayin'.
April 1, 2006 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink