West Coast or Not?
Nicholas Beaudrot offers a double-fisted challenge to my contention that "Seattle is a frou-frou town playing a frou-frou football style." The argument with regard to comparing the cities of Seattle versus Pittsburgh is easily dispensed with. Beaudrot notes that Seattle actually has a higher proportion of manufacturing than does Pittsburgh, which turns out to be heavily into the health care sector. This is true, but it's hardly as if everyone working at Boeing is doing manual labor or everyone employed at a hospital is a doctor. Aerospace firms employ plenty of white collar types -- engineers, managers, etc. -- while much of health care work is perfectly blue collar -- janitors, orderlies, and various other sorts in low-pay, low-prestige caretaker roles. The reality of the situation is captured in the educational stats which, as Beaudrot concedes, show that Greater Seattle has many more college-educated professional types than Pittsburgh does.
The more interesting claim he makes is the one about the Seahawks' brand of football. As everyone agrees, nobody runs more than the Steelers. But Beaudrot contends that Seattle does not, in fact, run a West Coast Offense despite Holmgren's unimpeachable West Coast pedigree. This is one of the most counterintuitive arguments I've ever heard. "In terms of the West Coast offense, probably Seattle is as close to running the West Coast offense that was run in San Francisco in the '80s and early '90s," says current 49ers coach Norv Turner. Accoring to ESPN's John Clayton, "Holmgren took the West Coast offense to Green Bay, and his disciples have pretty much dominated today's NFC with their versions and updates. But Holmgren's version stayed the truest to Walsh's concepts and could withstand a red-pen review by Walsh."
Now, to be honest, I lack real football expertise, but the weight of sportwriting conventional wisdom is definitely on my side. Nick's numbers, however, are at least somewhat convincing.















Hey, what's with the sportsblogging on this site rather than your other site? No, I don't mean THAT other site, I mean your OTHER other site!
Anyway, one of the reasons I have trouble conceiving of the Seattle offense as a west coast offense is that I usually think that a main part of the west coast offense is using a lot of passes to the running back out of the backfield. And Shaun Alexander doesn't really do that.
February 5, 2006 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
matthew, we know that football is not your thing, but if you're going to mention it, at least learn what the West Coast offense actually is, from your guide, the deeply knowledgable Paul Zimmerman (aka "Dr. Z"):
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/
for those that don't want to click through, the real West Coast offense is the deep-passing game that Sid Gillman invented (and such luminaries as Al Davis and Don Coryell extended).
The Bill Walsh offense, while brilliant, is nothing but the Fran Tarkenton approach to offense during his second stint with the Vikings developed into a full system.
And while i prefer power football myself, the idea that such approaches to the game as the West Coast or the Bill Walsh offense are "frou frou" is "dumb dumb." They've been part of the game for decades. It would be like complaining that home runs are part of baseball just because in the early days, they were rare and not a key part of the game. They've been there for 80 years now, and deep passing and moving the ball around through short passing have been part of footbal for at least 70 years themselves.
Meanwhile, i pick the steelers.
February 5, 2006 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
my gosh, i hadn't even realized: it's the real Al posting here!
you ready for Chelsea-Barcelona in "real" football, Al?
February 5, 2006 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't watched Seattle a TON this year, but what I have seen was far from quintessential West Coast Offense. Running a lot, as they do, isn't actually a disqualifier; Ricky Watters and Ahman Green got lots of carries/yards in addition to their catches, and if you're going to say that the teams on which they were playing (Green Bay, SF) weren't running the WCO, then you're not talking sense.
What's different is that the WCO uses short rhythm passing (particularly slants and swing routes, it seems to me) to set up everything else--both the run and the vertical pass. It's this inversion of traditional football theory--wherein "everything starts with the run"--that differentiates the WCO both from the Lombardiists and the Coryellites.
Because Alexander is as good as he is running the ball, and their wideouts are as unexceptional over the middle as they are, Seattle would be very foolish to wager their success or failure on their ability to establish the short passing game. So they aren't.
February 5, 2006 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
If, in fact, Dr. Z is correct about the unfortunate mislabeling of the West Coast Offense, it's still possible that the term has acquired new meaning through relentless misuse.
February 5, 2006 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, essentially you're right, djmoonbat.
as the dr. z link makes clear, even back in 1999, walsh had accepted that his approach was being called the "west coast" offense, and notice how, in matthew's original posting, norv turner calls it "the west coast offense that was run in sf in the '80s and '90s," because norv (as dr. z notes) does know the difference.
so in practice, the West Coast offense label is used promiscuously but usage drives correctness.
but matthew does like to get these things precise, and so he should want to use the terms as originally intended....
February 5, 2006 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Howard!
Actually, I have been posting here from time to time - but for some strange reason, for a while before the redesign, I couldn't post under this username. (And nobody from TPMC ever responded to my query about fixing the problem.) So I had just created a new username ("helpme") and posted under it. But now with the redesign, I can post under my original, three-digit username. (Hooray!)
I am looking forwaard to Chelsea-Barca, although we still got a couple of weeks to go, no? Other than the Champions League final, those were the best games I saw last year anywhere. And especially with all the controversy afterwards, it has the potential to be an incredible series.
The only question - will the games be on ESPN2???
February 5, 2006 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno, that looked like a West Coast Offense (in the "like the 49ers in the 80s" sense) to me watching tonight.
February 5, 2006 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was rooting for the Steelers, but I still thought The Seahawks got one or two TD calls against them that might have changed the game quite a bit.
If the pushoff was called then the passing interferece should have been called beforehand. The other disputed TD didn't look like the ball broke the plane to my eyes. I would have liked to see at least one dubious call break for Seattle to keep things honest.
February 5, 2006 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was the most "West Coast"ish outing I've seen from Seattle this year. Not coincidentally, they lost.
February 6, 2006 5:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Al - fascinating tidbit about your posting history....
yeah, chelsea-barca isn't for a couple of weeks (i think the first leg is february 23); i just hadn't seen the real you in a while so i thought i'd mention it. now if only haggai were on this thread, too, we could really talk soccer. I - like you - thought last year's matches between them were superb (ronaldiho's goal through 3 players in the second leg was the goal of the season as far as i was concerned) and look forward to this year's. it's just a shame it's this early, since it's chelsea, barcelona, or juventus to go all the way this season.
i'm not sure about the televising yet: fortunately, i can count on my local soccer pub to find the game on satellite if it's not on espn2....
February 6, 2006 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
i don't watch that much pro football anymore (if you want to see the unacceptable face of socialism, watch the nfl), but every single playoff game i watched, the refs had trouble calling pass interference correctly.
February 6, 2006 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
fortunately, i can count on my local soccer pub to find the game on satellite if it's not on espn2....
Must be nice to be able to get out at 2:45 in the afternoon (or whatever time zone you are in) on a Tues/Wed! There's a good pub right around the corner from me that shows matches off satellite, but I can't just disappear from the office for two hours in the middle of the day. (Although I may have to during World Cup...)
February 6, 2006 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
the advantage, al, of being self-employed!
but just so you don't get too jealous, i should note that my local soccer pub also records and reairs at night any important match, so as long as i don't check soccernet, i can see the match fresh at night even if i don't get out in the p.m.
February 6, 2006 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
<i>The reality of the situation is captured in the educational stats which, as Beaudrot concedes, show that Greater Seattle has many more college-educated professional types than Pittsburgh does.</i>
So does any NFL roster, and we don't accuse NFL teams of being egg-headed, latte-swilling, volvoteers, do we?
February 6, 2006 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink