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God, family, & country--progressive style

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I got such strange responses to my last post that I think I'm going to try to articulate my main point again. For most people, family is at the core of life's meaning. (Under "family", I'm including dear friends, blood relations, legal ties, offspring--everyone toward whom you feel obligation, affection, responsibility). A sense of love and moral obligation to others is absolutely central to many people's sense of a good life.


It therefore stands at the core also of most people's politics. Why earn a living or agree to go to war if not to care for and protect your family? National security matters because you want yourself and your family (i.e., those you love and for whom you feel responsible) to be safe. The economy matters because you want to be able to keep a roof over your family's head (and feed them, clothe them, etc.) Pensions and medicare: you want your parents, yourself, or someday your children to be able to retire with some sense of dignity.

The obligations one feels for one's family can be extended to spill out more widely, to one's community and one's country and one's planet. To me, that's the moral commandment in the oft-quoted line from Micah -- What does God demand of you but that you do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your Lord?


If we ask our fellow citizens to see that the way they feel about their own families is how their neighbors--Muslims, same-sex couples, single moms, etc.--also feel about their families, and that all hardworking families deserve the same respect and protection under the law, we can move quickly from the contentious part of the "family values" discussions to the other part: healthcare, wages, etc. But if progressives try to skip and dance away from the large meaning of family that I'm using here--if they try to pretend that they're Republicans-lite--then they lose moral credibility. Why would I listen to the policies of someone who doesn't seem to understand that the whole reason I care about your policies is my love for my family?


Spanish, Canadian, and British politicians have been using rhetoric that does this in ways that fits their own nations.


My point is that family values are at the core of a progressive agenda. If we don't claim our family values openly and honestly, if we run away from them, if we act as if we are willing to throw some families over the side of the boat so that we can win elections, we sound like cold-hearted jabbering wonks interested only in power for its own sake.


Now I'm going to let this go for awhile.


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I agree with your premise, but you seem to be implying that many folks cannot see that government programs which give security in these family areas are only seen as good if we grovel over it like the conservatives.  Is that what you are saying becasue if so, I like the obvious to speak for itself.  I do not like grovelling.

The first thing you have to do is junk the word progressive because it has nothing to do with the values you are talking about.  Progressive has become the catch-all term for all the nuanced little frames and spins and wonky policies that sure don't resonate at any family dinner table. 
Democrats could do no better than to go back to FDR's 4 Freedoms speech and expand on the same core values.  Those values do not need a new style. 

The Reader's Digest version of all this:


You're not a progressive if you don't support my agenda.  

I don't know any typical non-blog obsessed family Republican or Democrat who has a clue what "progressive" is supposed to mean.  It's a waffle word that takes on new meanings any time some wonk gets bad poll numbers.   

For many Republicans, and their supporters, self, not family, is at the core of life's meaning. This is not rocket science, it should be obvious to anyone.

Look at Newt Gingrich, who has gone through two messy divorces, and files for his first divorce while his wife was in the hospital being treated for cancer. She also had to sue him for child support. Look at Jeb Bush and his daughter, Noelle, drug addict, she showed up in court by herself a couple years back for sentencing.  The kids are not central to the lives of many 'conservatives'. Need we mention the drug addict and blowhard Rush and his divorces?

The only friends a lot of these guys and their supporters look to are those who can benefit them personally, financially or politically. Look at the rates of spouse abuse, child neglect, meth abuse and divorce in the Red states and you will find that the numbers there are among the highest in the nation. 

I like the family focus. 

I don't think that appealing to families lets one sweep these contentious issues completely under the rug so other issues will be more prominent and important in our elections.

My points were that the issue here is we need to love our political/cultural/religious opponents by listening to them and taking into account their existing frames in how we seek to make them understand homosexuality better or acknowledge that there is room for some legit disagreement about when the unborn is a human being and that a woman shd have the right to elect an abortion under defined circumstances.

So, given that you and I also have differences, are you going to listen to me or write me off as weird or outside the true progressive fold?  I understand progressive as someone whose overall philosophy/theology of activism is based on hopes for the future that the present fallen system can be dramatically changed, eventually. 

dlw
I don't think it's fair to judge religious/social conservatives based on these people. I think USFundamentalism has been a religious disaster in large part because they have elevated their own traditions to the status of doctrines by the way they blithely read them into Scripture and then wrongly pronounce them inerrant.

The point of the OP is to affirm the importance of family and other traditional US values and offer up(and defend why) liberal traditions as being in continuity with such values.

dlw
My view as a liberal is that everyone is part of someone's family; and my view as an amateur genealogist is that we're all cousins anyway.My point is, some people don't have close living family members who will provide the support structure that a family will provide when times are tough. It isn't immoral or unconstitutional to ask taxpayers to pick up the slack in such a case. If I'm not mistaken, the stated purpose of government is to provide for the general welfare.

Hi E.J.


A few thoughts about your expressed frustrations. Something struck me, which might address the frustration you are feeling with some of the responses to your ideas, when you said this:


Spanish, Canadian, and British politicians have been using rhetoric that does this in ways that fits their own nations.


as I had just finished reading this op-ed just before:


January 22, 2006

Op-Ed Contributor

Smoking and Fuming

By JAVIER MARÍAS

Madrid


Print version blurb: At Least Franco didn't take our cigarettes.


FOR far too many years, almost 40, the people of Spain were treated like minors by Franco's dictatorship. But it seems that some people among us still yearn for that era. The new antismoking law in Spain, which went into effect with the new year and bans smoking in workplaces and restricts it in many bars and restaurants, is a case in point: it is a clear example of the state trying to regulate citizens' private lives and customs. As such, it is a measure that is far more befitting of Franco than a democracy.


Now, I should say immediately that I am a smoker, like nearly a third of my fellow Spaniards, and I've never tried to quit. I know smoking isn't good for my health, but neither is walking in the polluted streets of Madrid or Barcelona, nor is living in a world where the United States refuses to sign on to the Kyoto Protocol.


Many of my friends are smokers too; many are not. But we have always managed to come to terms by asking if anyone minds our smoking - without the government's intervention.....A totalitarian state is one that sticks its nose where it doesn't belong and attempts to intervene in every aspect of its citizens' private lives, and many governments today, whether left, right or center, have developed this practice of behaving like busybodies. The old notion that only dictatorships can be totalitarian seems terribly naïve nowadays. And that is the worst thing about this antismoking law and others of the same ilk: they unfortunately prove that totalitarianism is no longer incompatible with the democratic systems that once guaranteed our freedoms....


Now forget the specific issue of smoking, as certain pro ban arguments are as reasonable as his. The point is that here is a libertine leftist attitude there, a chafing at what he makes to be a new Spanish socialist nanny state that reminded me of the following:


The problem you are running up against is not just a recent American one. When I hear the word term "progressive," perhaps much more than with the word liberal, I think a big part of that is an individualistic, iconoclatic tradition of leftism, not so much into societal structures like "family."


It is also part of a proud "progressive" tradition to chafe at "family," from Greenwich Village to Montmarte, to refuse the whole family thing. And I suspect that this is why many chafe at it and it goes deeper and further back than the religious right taking on "family values" as a theme since the 1970's. Indeed, some would probably argue that it's really a sort of Enlightenment value, that stems from anti-aristocratic, "family" based societies.


Your emphasis on family and some kind of "values system," this also appears to be a big topic in a new study coming out. See the American Progressive article cited here.. I would be surprised if you don't know about this already, but I thought others might want to give it a gander in the context of your arguments. The study even seems to address the libertine, individualist aspects of modern society that sort of strain at the bit of any kind "pro-family" bias in government. It's not really libertarianism, it's more of the proud libertine tradition of the left that you are running up against here. The word "family" is loaded with meaning about traditional society and keeping it intact. No coincidence that Greenwich village "communists" (i.e., the Soviets put children in day care and send Mom, equal to Dad, to work) and hippies and 19th-century free lovers were all seen as dangerous to civilization. Some "progressive leftists" didn't buy into that. There is a long tradition on the left to chafe at any kind of idea of family structure or family or as a basis for organizing society. Is sort of what the study may be trying to say that the left has to let go of to win? I would say we don't really know just from that short article, but it does seem to be the track that you are on, too. It's more "caring liberal" rather than "leftist libertine." It's all a very fascinating problem about readjusting to "modern times," mho. But unlike what the Environs study seems to suggest (we don't really know that for sure, we only have the article's interpretation) I still think Lakoff might be right: framing could be a big part of the problem, as loaded words matter? Simply moving away from loaded words might help a great deal? Old words do not fit new times?

I hate to leap all over this again, since I don't want to discourage thinking about this agenda, so see it as asking questions until you get it better.  But the newer version seems actually to be trying too hard, perhaps a sign that something wasn't as easily fixable as hoped. Now it seems to be associating family with caring, and somehow I just don't think that's going to be easy to sell as a rationale for choice. Somehow I don't think that foes of it think of themselves as uncharitable (think of the whole rhetoric of "pro-life") or that women and gays think of themselves as begging for charity.

I don't think that appealing to families lets one sweep these contentious issues completely under the rug so other issues will be more prominent and important in our elections.


The problem with "appealing to families" is that the other side does it, too, and I suspect that, contrary to Ms. Graff's frequent claims to the contrary, when it comes down to it more people will choose the conservative vision of "family" to the liberal or progressive or whatever you want to call it vision Ms. Graff suggests.  This isn't Spain; this isn't England; this isn't Canada.  This is the most conservative developed nation in the western world.  


I live in a red state where our popular Democratic governor is attacked because she "doesn't do enough to strengthen families," which is code for she refuses to bash gays and push for amendments banning same sex marriage and the like.  If our governor, as Ms. Graff urges, decided to come out strongly in favor of gay rights and so on, she'd be bounced on her ass out of office, strong economy, popularity, and all.  Multiply that across the nation, and you can see where this would quickly end up.  And where would gay marriage, excuse me, the "progressive vision for families" be then?        

You believe that when it comes down to it more people will choose the conservative vision of "family" over the liberal or progressive vision of "family".

I think people will care most of all that something is done to support families. 

There are a number of policies that could be geared towards this and that don't entail gay-bashing or making all abortions illegal.

One can and shd take this sort of spin and reapply it to the Republican party.

I'm not saying your gov'r shd come out in favor of legal gay marriages.  Successful activism requires taking into account the existing frames people have in their minds and, unfortunately, legal gay marriages is construed as meaning far more than it shd, IMO.  But that doesn't mean that one can't have activists working to spread understanding of the difference between having a homosexual orientation vs the sorts of popular pagan metrosexual acts that were rejected in the OT and the NT.  One can appeal to the need for civil unions geared at supporting committed gay couples and further concrete rights and benefits.

One can do this in ways that will respect the existing views of people in red states and not imply they are a bunch hicks and loonies who need to get enlightened and put away their Bibles.  I think a lot of the cultural wars is due in part to the way the post-Civil War situation was handled and the general regionalism that still exists. 

The way out of this mess will require better intercultural communication.

dlw

"It therefore stands at the core also of most people's politics....  My point is that family values are at the core of a progressive agenda."


Dear god, please say it isn't so!

I'm not supportive of Muslims because they have families just like mine.  Hell no, I'm supportive of them as my neighbors and friends and co-equals in a working community and peaceful world and/or because we're just friends and we've come to expect and need mutual support.

If we talking about politics, then in my view we're talking about mutual respect and interconnected responsibilities that go way beyond the sentimental notion of the (all too infrequently) loving family.

Political cohesion for those of us on the left  (which is what seems to be what you're looking for here) is made up of mutual respect and a common fight for justice and peace.  It's not about that elusive, gruesome notion, "family values," which is meaningless because so many families have such different values, from Christian home schooling -- to ending the estate tax -- to making more money than Dad -- to continuing the tribal tradition of genital mutilation -- to making sure you've turned enough tricks to buy Mom some more blow.

It's probably smarter to stick with "do justice, love mercy and walk humbly." Those, by themselves, would do more for America than anything I can think of.  Leave alone the notion that we can make people "feel" the way we do.  That desire has done more to build resentment domestically and world-wide than almost anything I can think of.   </em>

I think your attempts are commendable to try for equal justice, but you go down a slippery slope. 

I admit I don't know all the gay rights issues, but it seems there are legal mechanisms that can be drawn up, for hospital visits, insurance beneficiaries, power of attorneys, Durable Health, etc. 

I understand that Same Sex partners may not have the same rights, under the current scheme of employer health benefits, or Social Security benefits.

The Republican answer was individual accounts, which I think stinks, but it did provide same Sex partners an alternative. 

I think a National Healthcare program would eliminate, employer based insurance, dictating coverage,  excluding significant partners.

Are Same Sex partners  trying to achieve something more?

My friends son,  thinks, he should be able to list his cohabitation friend, multiple cohabitation partners, to  receive benefits. They want to live as a "FAMILY"

I  remember a state UTAH or Arizona, cracked down on a polygamy sect because of fraud on receiving benefits. They too just want to live like a "FAMILY"  

Identity politics is dead.  The last thing our party needs is a bunch of gays and lesbians kicking up dust during campaign time.  If and when we get back into power, we can talk about whether it makes sense to improve social acceptance -- what gays and lesbians seem to be aiming for -- by way of legislating sexual orientation neutrality.

Reproductive rights politics is just as dead.  Those women who don't care if the government controls their bodies are a lost cause.  The rest of us will silently rely on Roe v. Wade, and if we lose it, we can figure out how to get the morning after pill for us and our daughters.  Those who can't will have to visit the OB/GYN or Sweden.

I don't know whether E. J. Graff is, as a function of her job, running this idea up the flag pole to see if anyone salutes or whether she's got her ego invested in it.  I do know she's no savvy politico and the less heard from her the better. 

   

Identity politics is dead.  The last thing our party needs is a bunch of gays and lesbians kicking up dust during campaign time.  If and when we get back into power, we can talk about whether it makes sense to improve social acceptance -- what gays and lesbians seem to be aiming for -- by way of legislating sexual orientation neutrality.


Although this is a little harshly worded, even by my standards, the general point is correct.  There is a wing of this party that wants the Democratic Party to lead with its chin: the problem, say some of them, isn't that the country dislikes liberals; the problem is that Democrats aren't liberal enough; if the Democrats would flaunt liberalism, people would be impressed by their show of strength and vote for them.  The problem in 2002 wasn't that people wanted to hear tough talk and see tough actions, no; the problem was that Democrats should have been militantly dovish -- and so on.  Ms. Graff's position is right along these lines -- the problem isn't that a majority of the public is against gay marriage, the problem is that the public is waiting for some messianic Democrat to come along, LBJ-like, embrace gay marriage, and then then the public will support it.  Of course, even LBJ needed a lot of help to get the Civil Rights Act passed, and before he could do it he (and Kennedy, and a whole lot of other pro-civil rights people) had to get elected first, but these are inconvenient details, and must be ignored:  otherwise, the argument won't work.

Thank you so much Ellen...you were able to articulate what was making me feel uneasy about this website.  I am not a savvy politico, therefore no one wants to listen to me or hear my views.    Unfortunately, that same feeling has been increasing with the Democratic party.  The party rhetoric I hear is "No, don't talk...we don't want to hear your concerns about abortion and education and same-sex marriage and personal freedoms. All we care about is that we are the majority starting in 2006.  Winning elections is key and we will do it saying whatever we have to win."  It makes a life-long Democrat start thinking Independent.  Your comment wasn't a pleasant epiphany, but it did clarify things for me.  I will definitely not view this site again.  I am going where I will be heard. I don't know whether E. J. Graff is, as a function of her job, running this idea up the flag pole to see if anyone salutes or whether she's got her ego invested in it.  I do know she's no savvy politico and the less heard from her the better. 

It makes a life-long Democrat start thinking Independent.  TerriShirley

Well; if you believe that voting for Repugs will answer "your concerns about abortion and education and same-sex marriage and personal freedoms," and if you can't quite see yourself jumping all the way over, then, I suppose becoming an Independent is the right solution for you.

Reproductive rights wouldn't even be an issue if we Democrats hadn't lost 5 of the last 7 Presidential elections or controlled Congress.  If you don't win elections, you don't control the agenda.

Elections first; feeling morally superior will have to wait.

Identity politics is alive and well, it's just that the other side is offering people an identity and we're not.


Everyone knows Republicans support families becuase they believe in religion and tradition.  Also, republicans are focused on supporting cultural values that help families.  I know this is true because they say it all the damn time.


Democrats, on the other hand, don't.  They care more about protecting people's right to do bad things than they care about creating a society that helps people do good and moral things.  They want your daughter to have a secret abortion, they want to put child molesters back the streets, they want to weaken churches by making them perform gay marriage, etc.  I know this is true because that's what Democrats focus on--it's not the society they want to build, but how they want to change existing society to reflect their ideology and to please their interest groups.  


I think I've disagreed with EJ before, but he's right here.  We need a new definition of what's "normal," so we can point out that it's the Republicans who are upsetting the applecart when they start ginning up a culture war.  


We need to be able to paint the Republicans as the bad guys who are stirring up trouble.  The issue isn't that gay people want "special rights," the issue is that some people won't just leave them alone.  The issue isn't that feminists stir up trouble by demanding abortions, the issue is that Republicans won't leave people alone to make their own private family decisions.  


In order to paint them as the agitators, we need a definition of what Democrats believe is normal--what the world would look like if everyone took our approach.  We need to say what our values are, and, more importantly, we need to show what our values look like in action.  Frankly, we need to put forth the picture of Northern Exposure--a nation where some folks are a little weird, but that's just who they are, and basically everyone just treats each other decently, laughs at the little stuff that's different,  and helps each other out when bad stuff happens.  


But right now, we have the Republicans who are saying "we'll give you an Ozzie and Harriet life," while the Democrats are saying, "Ozzie and Harriet SUCK!  WE HATE THEM!"


No kidding our message isn't working.  We need to give people something to fight for, not just something to fight against.  

And you can't win elections if you don't listen to people...plain and simple...and I mean people...not just politically savvy people.

The key is to focus on civil unions with rights/benefits for committed gay partners. 

Anything more wild would not be politically feasible.

I don't see a single payer system happening anytime in the near future at this point.  Other reforms shd be feasible if we can get the cultural war issues to no longer be so prominent in our elections and intercultural communication were improved upon. 
dlw
I think it's just a matter of reframing the issues.

Homosexual marriages is a political black hole, sucking up way too much political capital for what it's worth.

One can press for changes in how people perceive gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgendereds without also pressing for such a legal change.  Typically changes come from the bottom up, not top down and so focusing on a top down legal change for your activism may not be a wise move.

Likewise, one can defend a woman's right to elect an abortion in defined circumstances, while allowing that we may want to alter when we treat the unborn as a legally-protected person.

The rhetoric and strategies of both sides in this debate are what have made it the most divisive issue in US history since Slavery. 

As a member of the post RoeVWade generation, I think we can and must do better and dialogue with each other better so this issue doesn't continue to crowd out other issues in elections.  No amount of wishful thinking by politicians is going to make that happen.  Better dialogue and intercultural communication is what is needed. 

dlw
You also can't deal with or resolve political black holes without listening to the other side and seeking to alter their activism/leadership in a culturally sensitive manner.

When are we going to start reading Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals? 
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8& rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-51,RNWE:en&q=%22Saul+Alinsky%22+%22Rules+f or+Radicals%22

I'm of the opinion that if more people had considered his rules and applied them to their activism then these issues would have been dealt with and we wouldn't have had Bush in power six years ago. 
dlw

TerriShirley writes
"I will definitely not view this site again.  I am going where I will be heard."
Where might that be? The Republican party? 
Or will you stay home and wallow in your sorrow about how one issue didn't get addressed, "I'll fix them nobody gets anything till my issue gets addressed" 

Would this be self centered?

Thanks, for nothing  

Ellen,
So we're to have one party of the far right and the other party enabling the far right?  I prefer a third choice, the choice made by abolitionists and women fighting for the vote, and African Americans fighting for 100 years after the end of the Civil War to simpy get the vote.  To a large extent, we fight the same battle against the same forces and it's still worth the fight.  If we don't fight, who will? 
"The only kinds of fights worth fighting are those you are going to lose, because somebody has to fight them and lose and lose and lose until someday, somebody who believes as you do wins. In order for somebody to win an important, major fight 100 years hence, a lot of other people have got to be willing - for the sheer fun and joy of it - to go right ahead and fight, knowing you're going to lose. You mustn't feel like a martyr. You've got to enjoy it." I.F. Stone

To bluebell

back then they may have thought they had 100 years left. If we don't stop this madness in the Whitehouse NOW.  we may not be around to talk about the good old days of the good fight. 
Global Warming threatens our existence, War and nationalism tearing society apart. And what is your solution 

bluebell writes  
"The only kinds of fights worth fighting are those you are going to lose,

God help us all, if these are our friends.

Smart activism picks its battles smartly.

Fighting the good fight, while it sounds romantic, doesn't make concrete changes happen and changes tend to lead to more changes.

I recommend for you to consider the example of John R Commons, who helped bring about many important policy reforms in the US and helped to allow us to develop our system so it would benefit more people. 

I think Saul Alinsky continues this tradition. 

The feminists picked their battles smartly, unlike the abolitionists or the prohibitionists.  They were not perfectionists and neither shd we be. 

We need to reassess our strategies and goals for political activism and get some new blood flowing.  I know in MN, the Dem party is calcified so that longstanding members have way too much say and relative newcomers are not given enough voice in party priorities.

dlw
Smart activism picks its battles smartly.I think all the party has been doing lately is picking its battles cowardly.   Big bold battles inspire, energize, win realignments not merely a Congressional election here or there.   We've lost the capacity for boldness and Americans see that as weakness.  As to party newcomers, if there were enough of you, you wouldn't have trouble pushing the old guard aside.  If the Democrats were truly "progressive", they'd be capturing the imagination of young people.  It's been a long time since I was young but it sure wasn't terms like "policy reform" that got me interested in politics.  It was big issues.  I certainly don't know what would capture the imagination of young people, but if it were up to me I'd pick a bold idea like universal health care or universal higher education and tie the big, bold idea to a big, bold future.    But that does take genuine commitment.  You can't just try it on a focus group one week and drop it the next.  You have to believe it before you can change minds to believe in it too.  Today's Democrats don't seem to really believe in anything.
Smart activism picks its battles smartly.I think all the party has been doing lately is picking its battles cowardly.  dlw:I agree that the Dems have been coopted strongly by the influence of K-street and their $peech.   Big bold battles inspire, energize, win realignments not merely a Congressional election here or there.   We've lost the capacity for boldness and Americans see that as weakness.  I think it comes down to what one means by big and bold.  I think a longterm vision of the things to come that the present actions are just part of can make a difference.  I helped organize a grad-employee union at MSU.  In the end, the things we gained were good, but they didn't blow anyone's socks off.  But because of our interaction with the CGEU, the group of grad employee unions, we got a sense that we were part of a movement to give more voice to more people in how universities are run and that helped us to work hard and accept the relatively modest goal we had set for our selves.  As to party newcomers, if there were enough of you, you wouldn't have trouble pushing the old guard aside.  If the Democrats were truly "progressive", they'd be capturing the imagination of young people.  It's been a long time since I was young but it sure wasn't terms like "policy reform" that got me interested in politics.  It was big issues.  dlw:Maybe the big issues might be the lure, but young people need to be trained to think and act smartly, valuing concrete reforms more than romantic visions.  I certainly don't know what would capture the imagination of young people, but if it were up to me I'd pick a bold idea like universal health care or universal higher education and tie the big, bold idea to a big, bold future.    But that does take genuine commitment.  You can't just try it on a focus group one week and drop it the next.  You have to believe it before you can change minds to believe in it too.  Today's Democrats don't seem to really believe in anything.
dlw: Maybe you'd like reading <a href="http://sodsbrood.com/antimani/2004/08/23/the-christian -pragmatic-progressive-party-platform/">my ideal-type party platform</a>.  I don't think one issue is going to cut it.  And I think that before changes can be made, the two-party system is going to need some changes itself.  We need to dampen the influence of $peech, not try to exclude it and we need to make our system a more viable third party system so that the main two parties will be more responsive to third party movements that can appeal to the center.  Oh and we really need to redress the primary process so voters can do far more than vote for one candidate.  It's far too easy for the press to have too much power in pushing the lead pony that people will tend to vote for in the determination of who our candidates will be.  I think there is change coming, but like all change it tends to come from the ground up and from unusual sources, like Jim Wallis and Sojourners.cheers,dlw

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