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Crash of the Titans

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As Scooby Doo says, "Roh Roh" (i.e., dog speak for OH MY GOD!), the Abramoff scandal damage is spreading big time and the DC economy is likely to be one of the unintended victims.  Are we talking recession in the future?   I'm not crying crocodile tears for lobbyists and, like prostitution, it does provide a public service (one that many, like hooking, find objectionable).  


I have some friends who are big time players in the lobbying industry.  They tell me that they are starting to unload baseball tickets to the Orioles and Nationals, boxes and suites at the MCI Center (home to the hockey Caps and the basketball Wizards), and seats at FedEx field, home of the Redskins.  I will admint there is a silver lining here for me; I may snag my lobbyist buddy's National's season tickets.  This is one way to get front row box seats to the ball game.


The restaurant scene is equally grim.  Abramoff's restaurant, Signatures, is not the only one going into the tank.  Many Senators, Representatives, and staffers are acting pre-emptively and declining to eat with lobbyists at Charlie Palmer's, Capitol Grill, and the Palm.


What does this mean?  

The restaurant explosion, particularly the growth of high dollar steakhouses, will come to a screeching halt.  Fewer restaurants, fewer jobs.  The middle to low income segments of DC will bear the bulk of this burden, but so too will some cats accustomed to six figure salaries.  We may be looking at the lobbyist equivalent of the collapse of the internet bubble.  With fewer six figure salaries the demand for housing and office space in the District and the neighboring counties in Maryland and Virginia will also cool.


Unfortunately, all of the posturing appears to be cosmetic.  While our elected representatives will now eschew meals with those "nasty" lobbyists they will still break bread as long as the lobbyist shows up with an envelope stuffed with $10,000.  A "fund raiser" meal is still kosher.  Regular eating ain't.  But, who is going to pay lobbyists big bucks if the Congress decides to ban earmarking and other ways of tickling the legislative process?


So, hang on boys and girls.  The baby and the bath water are headed out the door, but it is far from certain that anyone will get clean in the process.


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This seems a bit overwrought to me. I can't believe that there are so many highly-paid lobbyists that are going to get laid off that it would actually affect the area's economy to an appreciable degree. And you can be sure that there are plenty of others who wouldn't mind plonking down some big bucks for a skybox. Maybe a few select hangouts might feel pinched. But the DC Metro area's economy is pretty well diversified these days.




And aren't we kind of getting ahead of ourselves? It seems just yesterday that the CW was that this would blow over at some point and that it would be business as usual after some cosmetic changes. You'd need to switch to a totally public campaign finance system to really make a dent. And even then, you've got the Buckley v. Valeo precedent to contend with that says money = speech and thus protected.

What you see here is my crockodlie tears :....(

Put all the lobbyists to work in a real job.  Perhaps ditch digging. 

Wonder if the price for the Washington Nationals will go down? If I was one of the bidders I might want to reduce my bid.  Will the district still be ready to buld a baseball stadium if the local economy cannot support the luxury boxes etc.?

Some of those lobbyists & disgraced congressmen are going to jail, where I hear the food ain't so good. No inch-thick USDA Choice sirloins on the menu. And that's just fine with me. But what happens when they get out? I mean, I don't want any corrupt politicians moving in next door to me. I think we need a National Registry of Corrupt Lobbyists & Politicians -- you know, along the lines of sex offender registries -- so that neighborhoods can be warned when one of these lowlifes is moving in next door. Let's se, we could call it Jack's Law.

Well, this is why one shouldn't build an economy on corruption. We can't save the DC lobbyist economy at the expense of the country.

I think Larry's main point is that the lobbying is still going to be there to some extent, so long as it's fundraising, all the graft can continue. There is some truth to that, which is why we also need more campaign finance reform, to plug up more rat holes. 

Btw, regarding lobbyists in general, on the way to truly reforming the system, I think we need something of a truth and reconciliation program for lobbyists. However, that can not happen until the worst offenders, the really criminal ones, have been caught and punished and the pols they bribed removed from office and punished as well. First the law needs to be enforced for those blatantly criminal even under the existing law.

However, we also need to acknowledge many lobbyists are “legit” in as much as they were only playing by the rules in a very broken system. Unfortunately, under the present system it's all pay to play, and good causes can't compete unless they play the game. Of course to a lobbyist looking at a fat commission, they're all "good causes" right? lol. That so many made such extremely handsome living from participation in a system any one of their consciences should have told them was corrosive to democracy.. well their conscience deficiency hopefully isn’t genetic for their children’s sake.

We know the whole system of lobbying has gotten out of control. We know corruption is running rampant and democracy isn't being done. We know there are a lot of totally amoral people, and the grotesque examples of graft and betrayal of constituents prove it.

Catch the worst and punish them, and then lets close down this lobbyist culture once and for all. That’s lobbying/ethics reform and a revamp of campaign finance to block all the rat holes. Lets make sure elected officials and their staff listen to their conscience to decide which issues should receive their attention, as opposed to sliding down the most lubricated rail.

Amen Nick.  You get it.

Wistling in the wind.

Congress writes the laws.  Congress comprises the offenders.  The solution is to criminalize the behavior of the offenders when they even get close to the bad behavior.  The trouble is, Congress has a lot of trouble criminalizing Congressional behavior. How do we twist their arm to make effective criminal laws focused on themselves?

Now put it on bumper sticker for the fifty percent of the voting public who do most of their reading there.

Wistling in the wind. ... How do we twist their arm to make effective criminal laws focused on themselves?

That's incredibly apathetic, and kind of repugnant imho.

The one way we can control our democracy, is if the public is NOT apathetic, and if the public stands up, gets informed, and holds politicians and the powers that be accountable.

If you're already giving up, and least have the decency to do it quietly. Nothing seems more silly then a loud declaration of apathy.

You are mistaken about my intent.  I am NOT giving up.  I am asking a serious question.  More than half of the posts I have seen on Abramoff have been about getting party advantage.  I am not opposed to party advantage, but the serious issue is getting Congress to criminalize its own bad behavior.  "Lobbyist" reform or "earmark" reform are great little bits of whip cream, but where is the pie?

You are mistaken about my intent.  I am NOT giving up.

Good.

I am asking a serious question.

I think the answer is pretty obvious.

This is a flawed democracy but a democracy. We elect our leaders. We can choose to be informed and reward those who are doing the right tihng, or we can be uninfomred and let the system careen out of control.

There is a natural cycle to this as the population becomes complacent and corruption sets in, and then the populace realizes how bad things have gotten, sit up and pay attention, and clean house. That time is now.


The problem of corruption in Washington is not a cycle, it is more like the swirl in your toilet.  It is constant.  Sometimes we notice, sometimes the evidence is not clear enough.  There was a period in the early 90s when some top senators (I'm thinking Bill Bradley, bt I know there were others) retired because they were 'no longer willing to participate in the constant money raising process.'  What do you think they had in mind?  Just 'cause we don't see the toilet every day doesn't mean it isn't there.

The trick is to change the environment and get rid of the behavior.  This means congressmen must criminalize so called normal congressional behavior.  Period.  No excuses. 

I find your comparison to prostitutes objectionable. I've known a few (two tours of duty in Southeast Asia), and they were all relatively honest people. At the very least, I've never heard of any of them selling out their country for personal gain.

Look, the issue is not what the laws are. Abramoff pled out. These activities are currently illegal.  There's no need for reform There's need for proactive enforcement, starting with a real ethics committee, and with a commitment by officeholders and lobbyists to abide by the law.  Talking about new laws is a distraction. They've broken, systematically, brazenly, in full light of day, the current laws.

A customer of mine is a CFO of a big non-profit, and is a retired partner from a big 6, 5, 4 I dunno the right number anymore accounting firm. He played a role in a cleanup following an embezzlement scheme.  He says these people always get caught, because nobody notices when  they steal a hundred dollars, so they steal two hundred. And then four hundred. And in no time they're stealiing a hundred thousand, and people notice. A similar dynamic is taking place here. Reform isn't the issue. Enforcing the law is the issue.

If Abramoff were the problem, the laws would be good enough.

Just saw the post from Josh on the new Abramoff Rose Garden Holdings mystery in Hong Kong. Well, hey, no wonder the investigators can't find any evidence of the company in Hong Kong, THE WHITE HOUSE HAS A ROSE GARDEN . . .

This is not a lobbying scandal, nor a campaign financing scandal. Both lobbying and campaign donations are legal, above board and not all that bad. Abramoff pled guilty to bribery. Bribery is illegal. The people Abramoff bribed were Republicans. Accepting bribes is illegal. When laws are violated the corrective action is not new laws, it is enforcing the laws that were broken. We need to see some Republican Congressmen in jail. This was a Republican Bribery Scandal.

Even a ripped fishing net can catch a whale every now and then. That doesn't mean the rest of the fish are getting caught.  Abramoff is there because the whole system is a mess.

Cook 'em all, not just the worst ones. 

I'm sorry. I don't get your point.  What the republicans have done is already illegal. "Reform" is a distraction. if the face of illegal behavior under existing law.

Abramoff was simply a very egregious version of what goes on every day.  His money orgy was more obscene than other money orgies.  But, lets see how many of the already exposed lobby-hogs survive for lack of provable criminal activity.

All three of the candidates to replace DeLay are tainted.  However, apparently not tainted enough to be thought to be at risk of indictment.  Even the Republicans are not dumb enough to elect a majority leader who they expect to be indicted.

Sure there are criminals who can be prosecuted under current laws, but that is just the scum frothing to the top of the polluted water. 

This was a Republican Bribery Scandal.  HoppyCalif

What odds are you giving that a Democrat wins in the Dukester's Congressional district?  Hell; I'll fade you even-up. 

I don't think the point is that the lobbyists and politicians will find ways around any half-ass reform - we all know they will.

What I walk away from this post thinking is how it's not the lobbyists or politicians that this "bubble" bursting will hurt. Like Larry pointed out  - it will be the people who work in these restaurants or the janitor or secretary at that lobbying firm. They'll be out of work in what could become a depressed local economy. I could care less about some lobbyist losing his six-figure salary - he's already obviously got connections and will find another connected job - but people like I mentioned above won't have that same luxury.

The problem is that everyone is for tossing the bums out, well not my guy he's ok, but all the rest. You can't tell me that "lifetime" House and Senate guys are going to get the heave ho no matter what happens. There are too many "untouchables" on both sides of the isle to get any drastic changes.

The reason that "Dollar Bill" (he got that nickname because of his prolific fundraising) and many other politico's "retired" in that time frame was that legislation was enacted that would prohibit them from keeping all the money that was raised for their campaigns.  After a "date certain" (ok, I forget the exact year and am only on my first cup of coffee) their campaign funds would have been forfit.

The typical accountant meme-

"Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered" 

Eliminate the "Plum Book".

For those outside DC, in every change of administration, there are "political" appointments in every agency, bureau, and department in the government.

While the public hears about the Ambassadorships in the MSM (going price about $250,000 in fundraising contributions), the most dangerous insertions are in mid-level posts to administrative agencies.

These hacks interfere on a daily basis with "career service" federal workers- the ones that usually get it right. Examples are rife but usually under reported:

DeLay's redistricting plan for Texas was trashed by Just-Us dept. career lawyers as violating the voting rights act.  A political appointee (so far unnamed) refused to accept their opinions and allowed it to proceed.

Career analysts at State had it right about Iraq- enough said.

An appointee at EPA from the oil and gas industry "revises" reports that could cast unfavorable light on his "former" industry and support global warming- and then returns to a better job in that same industry.

And then there's...."Brownie".....the poster child for the concept of political patronage trumping competence.

This form of "redirection"- the "go along to get along" philosophy that is imposed on the career people by the hacks- results in money being pushed and diverted from the original appropriations to many worthless projects to benefit the "inner circle" of the appointed hack's money sources, guaranteeing that in the next political cycle the money will flow in again.

Every agency and bureau in the government has these "party" representatives that can make the career of a capable employee disappear- red-lined for advancement certainly.

This is where the "recession" that Larry points out will begin- partly because these appointees steer government dollars by political intimidation and fear the whistleblower- that they may think twice now that the light is shining into the darker corners of that corruption.  

I'm sure that Larry could cite chapter and verse about similar scenarios...... 

What odds are you giving that a Democrat wins in the Dukester's Congressional district?

Sure, I enjoy a good bet. The odds are about one in a thousand that the Dukester's voters will pick a Democrat this year. So, how much are you in for?

Why would those Republican voters want to elect a Democrat? From what they read in the papers and see on TV there is no Republican Bribery Scandal going on now, and to them, I'm sure, the Dukester was just unlucky enough to get caught, plus he is a nice guy. I think we voters are obligated to keep an eye on what is happening in our country - how else to vote intelligently? But, I am realistic enough to know that very few voters do that.

Although I understand what I think you are saying, that's a specious argument. 

The behaviour is already criminal.  I don't think taking a bribe has ever been legal.

The lobbyists are only part of the problem.  Those elected officials had their hands out and big "For Sale" signs blinking on their lapels.  There were too many ethically challenged lobbyists ready to pony up.  And the whole situaton was encouraged, even blessed, by 1600 Pennsylvania Ave

I've just watched Senator Rockefeller's remarks at the Alma 1 mine in my much loved home state.  He said that when people get angry, things get done and his constituents are very angry.  I am too and I hope we all are getting angry enough to cut to the real issues and get some things done.
No, Notrol, Sen Bradley was nicknamed "Dollar Bill" much earlier than his time in Congress. He was given that name because when he signed to play basketball with the Knicks, he got the most lucrative contract ever to that point.

He was no slouch as a fundraiser, but that's not where the name came from.

Regardinmg:

  I don't think taking a bribe has ever been legal.

Of course not.  But what is a "bribe"?  Congress is no slouch when it comes to defining away the problem. 

Normal people look at much of what is going on in campaign finance and say THAT is bribery, but normal people don't get to write laws.

Perhaps it's bribery to schedule your access time based on donations and gifts?  I am ready to say so, but Congressmen don't have the backbone to do so.

Since Congress controls the definition of "bribe," it is easy for them to make sure that all their favorite behaviors are not bribes. 

If you don't get that Calvin and Hobbes reference, my apologies.

Changing the law won't make any difference if people don't abide by it anyway, and discussing changing the law feeds the meme that this is business as usual.  

It's not. These guys are systematically looting the treasury.  It wasn't until this scandal broke in full force that I understood why there is no coherence to govenment policy.  The absence of any kind of governing principles confounded me. But now it makes sense. They're implementing programs that benefit the people who bribe them. Pure and simple.

Those bribes are already illegal.  Changing the defiinitions. even tightening them, won't make a difference, and amounts to changing the subject away from the fact that they are looting the Treasury.  With both hands,  and with no thought for the future. 

Okay, I admit that my posts are all over 6 or 7 different threads.  But, what I have been trying to say adds up to two things:

1. It is ONLY during crises like this that the laws CAN be changed.

2. The historic reason that changing the laws doesn't do any good is that Congress PRETENDS to change the law, but they generally focus on offenders OTHER than themselves.  The force of public comment should be to DEMAND changes focused on CONGRESS.

.....

As to the "distraction" you fear, Congress IS going to change the law.  There is no doubt about it.  They WILL try to change the subject.  We have to fight that ANY WAY.  The point is, when they CHANGE the law, we need to make sure they DO AS MUCH AS WE CAN MAKE THEM, and don't make things worse.

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