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Are women people?

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Or to put the question differently, do women matter when it comes to reviving democracy?


Check out a little intrafamily controversy over at TAPPED. Garance Franke-Ruta sums up the problem this way: "Progressive conferences in 2006 that are 92 percent male would seem to suggest that something even more problematic than a lack of resources is undermining the left's ability to strategically invest in human capital." That's a nice way of putting it.


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I suppose the NDP doesn;t really care about women and their issues.  Except... The board of the NDP has a lot of women on it.  One of its four staffers is a woman.  Three of its four research fellows are women.  Perhaps this fairly eclectic collection of people reached the reasonable conclusion that figuring out how to win elections is more important for the future of women's issues than having speakers that accurately reflect the demographics of America.  

E.J.

For some reason I was shocked when I read the lineup for Saving our Democracy (menocracy?)


For starters, Center for American Women and Politics claims 8.8 Million More Women Than Men Voted in 2004 Elections.


Imagine.


So who the f**k was in charge of getting speakers?


Thanks for bringing this to our attention. And I'm seriously wondering about your question:  Are Women People?

"Perhaps this fairly eclectic collection of people reached the reasonable conclusion that figuring out how to win elections is more important for the future of women's issues than having speakers that accurately reflect the demographics of America."

If this (92 percent male) group can figure out how to win the next election, I for one will happily give them a pass on that pesky gender representation issue.    

I sincerely doubt that democracy can be revived in the absence of a serious and sustained appeal to, well, I guess we're talking about over half of the demos, otherwise known as the electorate.  But if it *can* be done, I'm all for doing it.  I will stay in the background, baking cookies or whatever, and I promise you won't hear a peep out of me on the question of whether a revival of democracy is even possible in the absence of a genuine commitment to democratic/demographic representation. 

Off to powder my nose.   I'll check back with you next November.

If the line up of speakers at progressive conferences reflected the number of women in the progressive ranks, we'd sure as hell be seeing Alito getting filibustered.

sincerely doubt that democracy can be revived in the absence of a serious and sustained appeal to, well, I guess we're talking about over half of the demos, otherwise known as the electorate.  


I see.  So a substantial number of the people behind the NDP are women, but because they didn't somehow establish gender balance in this conference, it means they don't care about the female vote.  Makes perfect sense.


Let's say for a moment that the NDP should have made gender balance a priority when choosing their speakers (here's one for tokenism over merit!).  Is the silly, whiny, over the top title of Graff's post: "Are women people"? the best way to point that out?  


There's a reason people like Rush Limbaugh became so prominent in this society by shouting nonsense about "feminazis."  My bet is if you look in the mirror while you're powdering your nose, you'll see one of those reasons.  

I am annoyed but resigned to this state of affairs. 

Both parties ignore women almost identically and only court us when they want our vote.

I don't quite understand why this is, but if you look at all, well most, religions, the most fundamentalist wings of any of them truly hate women and I have always assumed that is out of fear.

Anyway, here is a radical thought: this fear is what keeps Roe v Wade safe.  It will not be overturned primarily because it would bring masses of women into the streets and back into the political process.

I am a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant woman and (don't hate me) a republican to boot, but I find myself more and more drawn to the left as the center moves right until I see that democrats don't appear to be any more more female friendly than the current batch of republicans.  sigh.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

Things like this make me crazy. The white guys want to get together and decide what's best for the women and minorities, and if a woman asks to actually be included in the conversation, she's a "feminazi." How dare we presume to have a part in determining our own destiny? Just make the sandwiches and let the men go about their business - we'll get to your concerns later, girls. 
What horse shit. There's a lot of buzz in the feminist blogosphere about leaving the Democratic party en masse, and this is why. The Dems may or may not win an election with us, but they cannot win at all without us. If the Democrats won't act like an opposition party, we might as well look toward the future and start building the Green party. At least they put us in the platform - and on the ballot. 

"My bet is if you look in the mirror while you're powdering your nose, you'll see one of those reasons"

That was uncalled for Luigi.

Lyndon Johnson received your advice before signing the Civil Rights Act. I'm thankful that he went ahead and did the right thing instead.

Simply winning elections is the legitimate goal of a political party, but if it becomes the purpose of a political party, it will never win elections.

Lyndon Johnson received your advice before signing the Civil Rights Act. I'm thankful that he went ahead and did the right thing instead.


What advice did I give again?  I seem to have forgotten, and when I re-read my post I didn't see any advice in it.  Perhaps you could point it out to me?  

The Dems may or may not win an election with us, but they cannot win at all without us.

 That's a very good point. And I am wondering, might the opposite be true as well? That is, women may or may not win an election with men, but cannot win at all without them?

It is said that people don't know how much something is worth to them until they don't have it anymore. Perhaps this sort of separation would be good for both men and women?

Looks in part like overreliance on the staff of The Nation.  Among them, only the editor is a woman.  What's up with that?

I am a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant woman and (don't hate me) a republican to boot, but I find myself more and more drawn to the left as the center moves right until I see that democrats don't appear to be any more more female friendly than the current batch of republicans.  sigh.


I understand your frustration, but by the same token it's a HUUUUUUUUUGE leap to elide unequal gender representation in the Democratic party and the kind of policies this Republican party is advocating for women.


I'm quite happy to have the words liberal and feminist attached to me, but imo no good can come out of yelling about proportional representation.  Anything women get via that route will be seen as a concession to numbers, not an acceptance that women have any valuable contributions to make.  


The only way women of this generation will continue to make serious progress is by doing what our very successful mothers and grandmothers did -- working harder, talking louder, and pushing the envelope of gender stereotypes until it becomes common sense to have a lot of women up on the dais.

About the title of the post: I haven't got the online tone thing down yet, I guess. You all can't see me laughing and rolling my eyes as I write that. Honestly, I think this sort of thing is hilarious. How is it possible that these folks do not know any female experts in this field, when women graduate, publish, get active, etc., in equal or greater numbers? It's just too funny a testament to the my-friends-and-me style of putting on a conference.


The only part that's not funny is that this sort of cluelessness means the resulting prescriptions for democracy-revival are then limited by the all-male point of view. Why would any movement want to be handicapped that way? We would be outraged if, say, the Iraqi constitution were written by a group that was 98% male... because we know that it would not give fair attention to women's lives.


Consider, for instance, the parking garage problem. Women know that parking garages are rape spots--not always, but definitely places you have to be quadruply alert. If you get an all-male group of security experts together, however, they are less likely to perceive parking garages as potential security problems. Bring some women into the building management team and, voila, ensuring that you can see into and out of the parking garage at all times is considered when it's being designed, built, and lit.


This is not to say that women are useful only on issues affecting women. Consider the roster of contributors to this blog, commenting on every possible topic. It's just to say that you can't have a serious democracy discussion with only half your population represented.

After all, living your values is the best way to convince people that you have some. Garance Franke-Ruta

A great principle to apply to all Democratic efforts at wooing voters. People will vote for someone who shares their values. But hypocricy will attract only other hypocrites. People who are truly committed to equality and community representation don't have to be asked or scolded into it. They do it because they believe in it. If they don't do it, that speaks for itself.

Re: Democrats don't appear to be any more female friendly than the current batch of republicans. sigh.-----------------------
Competition and control-orientedness mobilize these tendencies. They produce a heightened degree of adversarialness in society, which is just as apt to lead to tensions among women. Put another way, I think this is a broader phenomenon, toward which greater care should be shown in selecting the causal explanation for the effects.  

I am sadly not surprised that pointing out a lopsided conference roster quickly devolved into denouncing tokenism.  Now, there are topics where you might have to dip deeper into the barrel to find qualified women than might be optimal, but growing the progressive movement ain't one of them. 

But remember, Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

EJ's got it down.  


If these conferences were the least bit serious about winning elections, they'd include women.  Because, um, a majority of voters are women.  It's kind of like having a "conference on how to earn more money selling engagement rings" and not including anyone from the jewelery industry.  Don't be surprised when you fail to make a lot of money selling engagement rings.    


But even if they're not really about coming up with strategies to win elections but are about "me and my friends," their male bias is still not a good thing.  It's profoundly insulting to every woman who has ever been sent to stuff envelopes despite her policy expertise because all the girls are stuffing envelopes.  I'm sorry, but when women aren't on the "big smart thinkin' people" panel, other women think, "wait, I don't get to be one of the 'big smart thinkin' people' because I'm a girl?  Then, um, why the hell am I here?"


And then when women inevitably notice that when it comes to winning elections, we are the ones knocking on all the doors and manning the phone banks while the boys sit in the back room are making the big decisions and getting all the credit, it is sort of a frustratingly familiar situation.  And, shockingly, a lot of women who are attracted to the Democratic party are really really unattracted to the idea of doing all the work and getting none of the credit because they're a girl.  


I'm saying that women aren't entirely suckers, and a surprising number of us get pissed off when we're being screwed over.  Rubbing our noses in it, as these conference stats do, is the sort of thing that's going to make a number of us positively bitchy.  Which I'm starting to think wouldn't be a bad thing at all.  

It's just too funny a testament to the my-friends-and-me style of putting on a conference.

This is a pearl, as are your points about how women make up the bulk of the volunteer force that powers progressive causes. As Franke astutely observed, one of the left's biggest problems is that we don't know how to bring people into our ranks and up through them.

Though I don't think Luigi's tone is all that helpful, he raises a good point. Why are the women on the board of the NDP not objecting to this before the fact? I mean seriously, what's going on there? Did they make a stink about this that we haven't heard about? Cause I think that could shed a lot of light on how one of these things goes from "let's get us and our friends together for a conference" to "all white fellers and a couple token women and minorities".

One speculation I have is that it is somehow related to the Dems' problem of being dominated by single-issue activist groups. So when people (progressives included) think of "women in politics" or "women's issues", they think of NARAL, NOW and Emily's list, rather than Suzanne Nossel at Democracy Arsenal.

If we're going to spend a lot of effort building institutions to feed the pipeline of people to organized progressive politics, we should spend some time making sure that the pipeline includes women as well as men.

I am a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant woman and (don't hate me) a republican to boot, but I find myself more and more drawn to the left as the center moves right until I see that democrats don't appear to be any more more female friendly than the current batch of republicans.  sigh.Thanks for affirming a pet hunch of mine that the progressive men don't have a clue how badly this issue can help them with women, particularly women swing voters.
(here's one for tokenism over merit!).

So no women merit inclusion?  I say again, you boys have no clue how tone deaf you are on women's issues particularly on what motivates women to vote.  Contemplate how both parties court the Jewish vote even though Jews make up less than 5% of the population.   You don't have to piss off a very high percentage of women to have absolutely no chance of winning.   No, we don't all vote alike but there are so many of us that you've got a huge number of us up for grabs.  This is all part of the brilliant New Dem strategy of "We don't like our voters, let's get rid of them."

So no women merit inclusion?  I say again, you boys have no clue how tone deaf you are on women's issues particularly on what motivates women to vote.


No, worrying more about how many women are on a panel as opposed to how many quality speakers smacks of tokenism.


Here's a little fact: more women voted for Bush last year than voted for Kerry.  Do you think the Republicans, when putting together their little think tank seminars and the like, wring their hands over how many women they have as speakers and how many men?  


This is all part of the brilliant New Dem strategy of "We don't like our voters, let's get rid of them."


The sad thing is you believe this.  

Here's a little fact: more women voted for Bush last year than voted for Kerry.  
And more women voted for Kerry than men and 2004 was a "national security" election pulling women away from the issues that are usually more salient for them.  2008 is likely to trend back towards the norm, if the Democrats don't work overtime undermining their support in core constituencies.  Again, you are tone deaf.  You don't get how your attitude is a total turn off for women voters.  And turning women off is the threat because women will tend to vote for Democrats if you get them to the polls.  Turnout is a problem.  All you are doing is giving us a great big reason to stay home. 
Do you think the Republicans, when putting together their little think tank seminars and the like, wring their hands over how many women they have as speakers and how many men?  
Yes, because unlike Democrats they don't take women for granted.
"No, worrying more about how many women are on a panel as opposed to how many quality speakers smacks of tokenism"

Only if it is indeed tokenism. But tokenism assumes that the women would be allowed to participate in spite of the fact that they really have nothing of any quality to offer.

Other than Clinton's cakewalk re-election in 96 this party has lost ground in the last 6 national elections. Obviously the boys don't have an adequate grip on the problems or the solutions necessary to rally the electorate. So why would we even think of having a conference dominated by guys. We NEED new perspective and there's a whole gender out there trying to talk to us Luigi. Maybe if we listen we'll find out what we don't know. Maybe we'll find out that half of what we think we know is bullshit. Maybe we'll find out that they know how to win elections!! Maybe we'll find out that a bunch of guys who've been losing elections can't figure out how to win elections.

Graff's question was "do women matter when it comes to reviving democracy?" My answer is, "is it possible to revive democracy without women? And I don't mean their vote or paricipation on this panel ot that commission - I mean their ideas!" We guys are not going to hear those ideas if we don't quit taking our selves so damned seriously that we only talk to ourselves.

This party obviously doesn't have anyone in it who's man enough to take Rush Limbaugh on toe to toe. Maybe we have someone who's woman enough. Bring on the Feminazis! Politics is a blood sport. Enough with suit and tie policy wonks infatuated with their own thoughts - let's rumble!!

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