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Why Even Bother Passing Laws?

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In signing the ban on torture last week, Bush made clear he would not necessarily live up to the strictures his signature had just enacted into law.  "The executive branch shall construe [the law] in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President . . . as Commander in Chief," Bush declared. And since this White House believes that the powers of the Commander in Chief can override laws whenever it determines this to be necessary, the administration's agreement to accept the torture ban is practically meaningless.


I thought ours was a government by law, not a government by men. But no one seems to have told Bush or Cheney. As Bob Dole might say, where's the outrage?

[UPDATE 1/5/06: Three Republican Senators -- Warner, McCain, and Graham -- have come out strongly condemning the president's statement and putting the White House on notice that the torture ban is absolute. Why no Democrats?]


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Re: I thought ours was a government by law, not a government by men:
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Awwww come'on! You know everyone has to bend over occasionally to get ahead. It's never clear though just what is coming from behind though. Carrying around a cast iron frying pan works well for me. 
just kidding

at the risk of writing another rant against the MSM, how is it that this story is not front page and above the fold in every paper in the country?  President Reserves the Right to Ignore Laws would be one possible headline.   Welcome to the slippery slope.

Samuel Alito apparently wrote on this, and his opinion is being used as justification. Mark Schmitt's post in Politics covers it well.

This is a dangerous trend that I can't see any way to completely defeat. We have to try, though, and it would need the Supreme Court to settle the question. Like most administrations, but more than most, Bush and Cheney are testing the limits of executive power.

I don't think Alito's position will get much traction with other Court members. The extent of Presidential authority is a broader question, though, and the NSA issue may test it. 

Everything Bush has done after his Reichstag fire has been on the basis that the Barbarian-in-Chief is immune to the Constitution, US law, and any international treaties to which the US is signatory.  He's taken the position that he can disappear anyone, anywhere at any time without charge or judicial review and that he can spy on any American of his choosing without judicial review.

The McCain anti-torture amendment is mostly PR for McCain's 2008 presidential campaign.  The same bill said that the disappeared do not get their day in court until after a military tribunal decision is made.  So far there have been 9 of those.  So if you are a detainee you can't be legally tortured but you have no way of enforcing your right.

In practice, federal courts did very little to restrain the Administration.  Hamdi was exiled, Padilla rots in a brig, Guantanamo inmates have yet to be heared etc.

We all know that courts can be very swift if they choose, with incunctions and contempt penalties.

 Back to the main topic: shouldn't Saddam lawyers use such a defence: as a President and Commander in Chief, Saddam had determined necessary steps to preserve national security etc. etc. and that had priority over any law and any treaty?

This is the main reason Scalito has to be kept off the Supreme Court even if it requires a filibuster.  Scalito is a slave to executive and corporate power.

Seems to me this is where the shit hits the fan for McCain. Either he is against torture, in which case he comes out and denounces Bush for shiftiness and calls on the WH to repudiate its statement, or he's a craven, politics-as-usual weasel, willing to take credit for a popular cause but not willing to stand up for a principle when the spotlight is off.


And yes, this is indeed the first bell of the 2008 campaign. If we stand for anything, its got to be a) reinstating the Constitution and b) holding all Republicans, beginning with McCain, responsible for their attempts to eliminate it over the past 5 years.

Impeachment.

How many times must that word be repeated before everyone understands that the constitution covers this problem very well. It gives to Congress the power to impeach a president for "high crimes and misdemeanors", and violating the constitution in the wholesale manner that Bush is doing, plus declaring his intent to continue to do so, has to be a "high crime" - in fact the "highest crime" any president can commit.

What is really happening today is the Congress deciding if it wants to do its job. Or, and this seems to be where we are heading, if the Congress, for purely political expediency, wants to recuse itself and allow Bush be be a dictator. In the end, we make the decision when we vote this year. (Unless, of course, Bush calls off the election.)

The 2006 election is the point. If the Dems take Congress they can impeach on any grounds they choose. Lots of choices there.

Without Congress it's moot, barring a Supreme Court test. 

Where's the outrage, you ask?  Honestly, I blame Democratic politicians.  These suck - absolutely suck - at capitalizing on Bush's blunders.


Just take Russ Feingold, for example.  Here is one of our strongest voices.  Instead of asking Ivo's question (why even bother passing laws like the Patriot Act?), however, Feingold engages the White House on the merits of the Patriot Act:


"Contrary to the president's misleading comments, nobody wants to see the Patriot Act expire," Feingold said Tuesday. "We want commonsense changes to the act that would give the government the power to combat terrorism while protecting the rights and freedoms of law-abiding citizens."


Trust me, I'm as big a Russ Feingold fan as anybody.  But it's illustrative that our strongest, fiercest voice chooses to argue about the value of the Patriot Act when the President is asserting the broad right to overrule federal law whenever he pleases.  Again, Ivo's words: why even bother with the Patriot Act if the President is going to order federal agents to do whatever he wants anyway?  Why should our omnipotent President bother with Congress at all?  What is the point of debating the merits of the Patriot Act when the President ignores the law?


Republicans gained ascendency by making Democrats look like uncool wimps.  They did it through sarcasm, bold assertions, and flamboyant media personalities.  When will a prominent Democratic Senator make headlines by repeatedly, sarcastically calling George Bush a "dictator" ?  (I like the sound of "Chairman Bush".)  When will Democratic congressmen refuse to debate the Patriot Act until hearings have been held on the NSA program?  My prediction: never.

Would not Yoo, who recently came in for strident criticism on our board, here, agree with you?  that only the will of the people democratically expressed by way of elections (of the President, directly; indirectly, of the Congress who can remove him by impeachment) can limit or discipline the President's implied War Powers?

Roosevelt interned the nissei.  Truman seized businesses, many after VJ Day.  No President has expressly agreed that the Congress can limit his powers as it has sought to do in the War Powers Act or FISA.  Is not Bush stating clearly what all our post-Hoover presidents believed?

 

Hoppy, here is what I wrote to my representatives in Congress re the illegal spying:


Dear


The news that the Bush administration is spying on US citizens in defiance of the FISA laws is quite disturbing to me.  It seems plain to me that the administration broke the law.  Why did they not get warrants?  If they needed to act quickly, they had 72 hours to get warrants after the fact.


If the FISA laws do not work for the president he should go to Congress to fix the laws.  We are a government of laws, not men, and no one is above the law, not even the president.  The president says that Congress reviewed his spying program and signed on to it.  However, the Constitution does not give Congress the right to permit the president to break the law.


If the president has the right to do as he pleases in defiance of the law, then we should schedule a coronation, because he is no longer the president of a republic, but a ruling monarch.


The president has stated that he will continue these activities, therefore, I ask you, as a member of Congress, to demand that the administration cease and desist from these illegal activities under threat of censure or impeachment.


At the rate that this administration is encroaching upon our freedoms, we will soon have few left to defend.


Thank you for your attention.


So what else can we do?  Ivo is right; why bother passing laws if the president has the power to set aside those he does not like?


And yes, where is the outrage?


I don't mean to be prideful or anything but if anyone out there likes my letter, please don't copy it verbatim, because if the members of Congress get letters worded exactly the same way, they see them as astro-turf and don't pay as much attention as they would to an original letter from an individual.

why bother passing laws?  I agree.
To that I add:
Why bother replacing Sandra Day O'Connor?  If the president is "above the law" and redefines laws to mean what he wants, why would he accept the judgment of any number of Supreme Court Justices?  
Probably the Supreme Court is also just a "quaint" institution, already redefined by Yoo.
Why pass laws?  Why hold hearings?  Why trust that even the Supreme Court could actually enforce it's rulings?
If we're worried now, when will it be too late to worry?  Is it already too late?  
How enforce ANYTHING with this "crow-ligargy" in power?  This "hic-tatorship," this "bad-ministration," this Constitutional Demolition Derby run amok?

"crow-ligarchy"  (a bunch of crows thinking they're in charge)  misspelled it above.
also misspelled judgement
There, I feel better!

Ellen, to some extent i agree with you, but i think you misrepresent when you say "No President has expressly agreed that the Congress can limit his powers as it has sought to do in the War Powers Act or FISA."

up until bush, we all agreed that if a president signed a law, he was accepting it under his constitutional requirement to see that the laws are faithfully executed.

only under bush are we seeing the notion that a president has the right to act as if the law doesn't exist because he's the commander-in-chief.

Now, where i agree with you is that this is exactly why we have a constitutional crisis at hand: perhaps someone with standing can get this to the supreme court, perhaps a majority dem congress would consider impeachment, but short of those two actions, there is quite literally nothing to stop bush from continuing to break the law.

and since i don't know that there will be someone with sufficient standing to get this to the supreme court while bush is still in office, and while i doubt that even an unexpected dam majority resulting from the 2006 election would move to impeach in december (following the delay model from a decade ago), i expect bush to continue to behave lawlessly until january, 2009, with nothing anyone else can do about it.

and that's a crisis, as ivo has suggested with this posting. 

Actually, that is the defense Saddam's lawyers are using.  The (old) Iraqi constitution basically states that the president can do anything at all in the performance of his official duties and it can't be against the law. 

That's why Saddam is being tried under laws that we made up for the purpose of convicting him instead of the laws that existed when he committed his crimes.  

The other solution would of course be to try him in an international court, but we can't do that because we're an outlaw state.

RG 

Laws? We don't need no stinkin laws. We just need our head chimp in charge. Impeach the bastards. Do it NOW!

One interesting thing in this debate about executive power is the fact that you don't seem to see any of the usual democratic presidential candidates out there making a big stink about this.  And, I think the reason is that they lust after the thought that they might actually get to utilize some of this new executive power.  I don't think I have heard Kerry or Clinton out there on this issue.  Hmmmmm......wonder why that might be??  My guess is that monkeys are going to fly out of my butt before either one of these people speaks out against Cheney and Bush on this.

I've been waiting for our team to wake up to this fact for a long time but I just don't think it's going to happen.  The Democrats on the hill really don't care about winning a greater battle of ideology....what they do care about is maintaining their perks of office and just staying in office.  That's why we need to get rid of a bunch of 'em (democrats, that is).

If we stand for anything, its got to be a) reinstating the Constitution and b) holding all Republicans, beginning with McCain, responsible for their attempts to eliminate it over the past 5 years.


How 'bout holding all the Democrats who have done absolutely nothing responsible too? McCain at least got a bill pushed through Congress. The Democrats apparently are still on vacation. I haven't heard one of 'em say anything since before Christmas . . . Why aren't they making more noise? Why aren't they pushing for investigations, impeachment? Attacking McCain seems silly. He at least has done something. What has Biden done? What has Clinton done? What has Kerry done? None of them is worth a dime.

and my guess is that you're wrong, but they're both guesses.

it's one thing to note that the dems still have trouble understanding the role of an opposition party; it's another thing altogether to assume that kerry or clinton or whomever you want actually also believes in presidential lawlessness.

Impeachment.

How many times must that word be repeated before everyone understands that the constitution covers this problem very well. It gives to Congress the power to impeach a president for "high crimes and misdemeanors", and violating the constitution in the wholesale manner that Bush is doing, plus declaring his intent to continue to do so, has to be a "high crime" - in fact the "highest crime" any president can commit.

Impeachment is not a real possibility when the President's party controls the House of Representatives (even if the Senate would vote to convict).

Which pretty much leaves us with the other two options available to us under the constitution.

  1. The legal system;
  2. The voters.

The executive branch is supposed to investigate crimes, even if commited by members of the executive branch. Precedent is that criminal prosecutions of the chief executive don't happen until after impeachment though, which leaves us w/ option 2: vote the bum(s) out.

We can wail all we want about Congress not doing its job. But we as voters must do ours as well. The founders in general, Jefferson in particular had a great deal of faith that voters would refuse to tolerate abuses of power at election time. Congress may well have abdicated their oversight responsibility, but the founders had equally high expectations of the electorate. Let's not let them down by abdicating ours.

According to the White House official quoted by the Boston Globe on this, ''We consider it a valid statute. We consider ourselves bound by the prohibition on cruel, unusual, and degrading treatment." And, yet in the same breath he or she states that Bush may waive the law. . . Impeachment language looks like the only rhetoric that may be loud enough to get America's attention. The quiet voices of reason will be drowned out by the strident noise, "Laws!? We ain't got no laws. We don't need no laws! I don't have to show you any steenkin' laws!!"

Perhaps it's better to make a distinction here.....of course the congresspeople are going to get upset by all this....they are the ones being pissed on!  I think that the presidential candidates, however, have a whole different agenda....they want to be in power.  I just think it's an interesting juxtaposition to see what the dem presidential candidates-to-be will say about all this (will they actually campaign to weaken the power of the office that they seek?) versus what the congressional candidates say about it.  I don't recall JKerry really going after Bush much on this sort of thing in 04.

What has Biden done? What has Clinton done? What has Kerry done? None of them is worth a dime.

Those three are in hiding. If someone from the press were to find them they might be asked a question about what to do now. And, whatever one of them would say just might lose a vote somewhere. Can't have that if one has ambitions to be our leader.

Hillary just may finally get herself transformed into a conservative just in time for the public to decide conservatives are just not rad anymore. Now, wouldn't that be special???

I think ratifying a bill is similar to signing a contract. If I find myself signing a mortgage, I’m going to add a signing statement requiring payments due in Monopoly money… When you sign, you are signing off on the language as written. If you can redefine the contents later, what is the purpose of signing or ratifying it?

This is just another attempted CYA by a President who more and more is entangling himself in a tenuous claim of executive privilege. This signing statement is really an implicit admission that he has and will continue to torture contrary to U.S. laws and treaties.

SCOTUS may slap down his Commander-in-Chief claims when they take up Padilla but I don’t think it will change much. Until Senators grow some cajones and begin real investigations instead of whitewashes, nothing will happen.

Is not Bush stating clearly what all our post-Hoover presidents believed?

No, not in my opinion. No other president has blatantly stated that he will not follow the constitution, which he swore to uphold. Sure, some did things contrary to the constitution, but none so blatantly and none stated that they would do so whenever they wished.

Further, I am not saying that it is up to the voters to discipline Bush. It isn't, in fact. The constitution gives that power to Congress - we have one of those now, even if they are extremely reluctant to go into session. That Congress has the power and the responsibility to act, but will chose to give up their power instead - mark my words! I consider them doing that to be treason of the highest order.

Re: It's one thing to note that the dems still have trouble understanding the role of the opposition party; it's another thing altogether to assume that kerry or clinton or whomever you want actually also believes in presidential lawlessness.
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Those are good points. I was wondering if private security firms have to seek any sort of authorization for eavesdropping or general surveillance. 

Actually, judgment was correct as you had it originally.

Now I feel better.

Jane, I wrote a very similar email to my congressperson, Doris Matsui, before Christmas. About the only thing I added was that I expected her to take the lead in demanding that the Judiciary Committee to begin hearings on impeachment. Of course I don't expect a freshman congressperson to have enough influence to cause anything to happen, but I did want her to know my position. If all of us do this, and ask our like minded friends to do the same, it is just barely possible that our Democrats in congress will speak up. Then, the press will be forced to address the issue.

Bush reminds me of Andrew Jackson, who simply disregarded the Marshall Supreme Court ruling on the Cherokee Nation. Bush seems capable of the same.

In the end, Congress is supreme, in that they can impeach any elected official or appointed judge. Time to take back Congress; they are unlikely to propose laws that strengthen the executive at their expense, or any amendments to the same end.

Since it does not state unequivocally in the Constitution that Bush can't postpone an election, is there any mechanism in place which would prevent this administration from 'discovering secret intelligence', declaring an emergency and suspending national elections in the interest of National Security?

Since Bush seems to have the wherewithall to ignore the law of the land, what's to stop him?
Impeachment doesn't solve the problem.  Bush will be out of office but he's setting a precedent that will live on.  What the cowardly Congress ought to be doing is asserting its own power beginning with taking back the power to declare war including defining the parameters of what the war includes and how we'll know when it is over.

One power the Executive definitely does not have is the power to amend the Constitution.  If the cowardly Congress had any spine it would enact an amendment curtailing the power of the Commander in Chief in language that only a strict constructionist could fully appreciate and then we could see how much the red states really want states rights and hate unchecked power in Washington. 

... the American people.

Actually, I saw Feingold on TV use that exact quote about why even pass the Patriot Act, Bush will do what he wants anyway.

This coming on top of the NSA scandal puts the matter quite clearly.

Impeach me. I dare you

and if we don't and if democrats fail in their duty to make this a decisive issue in the election, there will no limit to what he can do.


This should give all preventive warriors pause

a long pause

"The executive branch shall construe [the law] in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President . . . as Commander in Chief,"


Hold the phone!!!  If I am not mistaken it Congresses job to pass laws...it is the Executive's job to enforce the law...and the Judiciary's job to "construe" or judge the law.  I can't believe they are trying to put forth that argument.  They are trying to say the Judicial Branch of government is moot the executive now holds both branch's powers.

3 GOP senators blast Bush bid to bypass torture ban
Reject assertion he has right to waive rules to protect US security


WASHINGTON -- Three key Republican senators yesterday condemned President Bush's assertion that his powers as commander in chief give him the authority to bypass a new law restricting the use of torture when interrogating detainees.

John W. Warner Jr., a Virginia Republican who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican, issued a joint statement rejecting Bush's assertion that he can waive the restrictions on the use of cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment against detainees to protect national security.

Warner & co. may tut and tut; The Supreme Court may harumph and rule. They are pissing into the wind.

When the executive no longer "takes care that the laws are enforced" there is no law that may be enforced upon it. There is, in effect, no agency to bring to bear any sort of duress upon it. Only Congress may act.

The exclusive remedy is impeachment.

That said, a rogue president plus 34 senators (fewer if the ranks of the senate have been, shall we say, thinned....) may function unchecked as an extraconstitutional oligarchy.

The more so as the availability of private law enforcement obviates the necessity to retain a semblance of comity in relationships with local police agencies.

One may well wonder whether Bush would permit the accomplishment of an election that threatened the persistence of a core senate cadre of acolytes.

We are well and truly fucked.

Only Congress may act.

The people may act through their legislative bodies to amend the Constitution to redefine and strictly construct the powers of the Executive branch or to get rid of it altogether.   We could propose a parliamentary system.  We won't, but we could.   The absurdity of the President's claim that our insecurity requires him to take on dictatorial power is shown up by the example of Israel.  They do fine without a "Commander in Chief".