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The Nuclear Iran Question

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Responding to the questions on Iran raised by Matthew Iglesias, I do agree that this new Sokolsi-Clawson book is not very impressive. But the reasons for concern about a nuclear proliferating Iran are there, irrespective.


    I wrote on this a few weeks ago. Some further thoughts:

First, in the rough formula for strategic threats assessments of taking into account capabilities and intentions, an Iran with nukes under its current leadership comes out pretty badly. Even acknowledging that rhetoric can be rhetoric, the new government of President Ahmadinejad has been out there: Ahmadinejad's in-your-face speech at the UN in September, his calls for Israel's destruction and/or relocation to Europe, his anti-Americanism vitriolic even in the Khomeini era context, his rebuffing of the Europeans in the nuclear proliferation negotiations, even stiff-arming the Nobel Peace Prize-winning IAEA. This is extreme stuff which notwithstanding Bush's axis of evil rhetoric, criticisms of Sharon and other valid points, can't be explained away.


Second, there could be a chain reaction (pun intended) in the region. If Iran goes nuclear, the risks are higher that for a combination of insecurity and prestige other countries in the region will seek their own WMD. And I don't just mean Israel and its presumed existing nuclear weapons. Put your bets on Iraq under President Mokhtada al-Sadr (a separate discussion, of course). And Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Perhaps others. Back in the mid-1990s, there were initial negotiations about a WMD free zone in the Middle East, not as immediately  achievable but as a goal that could be envisioned and started to be mapped out. This is something that eventually needs to be back on the agenda, and hard as it is today it'd be virtually impossible with the chain reaction a nuclear Iran would set off.


Third is something that has to be especially important to those of us who support multilateralism. Here we have a situation in which the international community is pretty united. The United States, Europe and the UN in the form of the IAEA have been working together fairly well over the past year. Less so Russia and China and some others, but that tells us what needs to be done further. If Iran shows that a determined country can defy the international community even when it is pretty united, the case for multilateralism will be that much further undermined. This will be tangible and specific in further weakening the Non-Proliferation (NPT) treaty and regime. It also likely will be another reference point in our own American political debates in which the desirability of multilateralism is recognized but its do-ability doubted yet again.


Fourth is the possibility of success. Getting a prospective proliferator to de-proliferate has been done before: Libya. Qaddafi's Libya was the original rogue state yet he ended up doing the "full monty" on WMD. Terrorism too. I raised the analogy and lessons of Libya back in September with reference to North Korea as well as Iran, One case does not predict another. But it does show there's a route which is an alternative to the Iraq route on the one side and throwing up our hands on the other.


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An offer they cannot refuse...

Iran offers the US a piece of a nuclear reactor project in Southern Iran according to TV news this morning.


Rats no war

But there wasn't going to be a war anyway...not now


Ever notice how NONE of the would be Iran Crusaders ever put the problem in context???






From the US Army War College.......



War experts advise strategy overhaul
Authors of downbeat report fear current course risks cataclysm


The Report (Terrill and Crane) Their first before the War was quite prescient.

"Precedents, Variables, and Options in Planning a U.S. Military Disengagement Strategy from Iraq," warns not only that a civil war in Iraq may be approaching, but that it could threaten access to Middle Eastern oil and possibly spread violence -- and terrorism -- throughout the region. Such a powerful shock to the United States must be avoided by all means, it maintains.

The report argues that the efforts to build a new Iraqi army are falling short and that the United States should be willing, at least for an interim period, to permit militias to control sections of Iraq, even if that brings with it human rights violations.

In the interview, Terrill added that America should be prepared not just to provide billions of dollars in aid for Iraqi reconstruction for years to come, but also should be prepared to supply arms to an authoritarian government.

"There is a danger they will use those weapons in a way we don't want," said Terrill. "I hate to say that, but we have to maintain our influence there. Some problems are too difficult to solve right away, and you have to kick them down the road."

Why even Israel has suddenly backed off its hard line urging us to fight their wars with our troops
"Non-Military Solution" Needed for Iran - Israeli DM


Maybe Saddam be willing to cut a deal? Go to the Ranch for BBQ - a bit of brisket and Lone Star?

Then we go bomb Iran.

As Terrill and Crane put it, this problem is one of those the solution to which "must be kicked down the road"

In fact, one of their colleagues made that very point months ago in the New Republic.


Strike Out
by Michael J. Mazarr


Again analysts cannot ignore the geopolitical-military strategic context obtaining right now.

That would be too easy.


Time to kick this can/

The Strike Out link

Back in the mid-1990s, there were initial negotiations about a WMD free zone in the Middle East, not as immediately  achievable but as a goal that could be envisioned and started to be mapped out. This is something that eventually needs to be back on the agenda, and hard as it is today it'd be virtually impossible with the chain reaction a nuclear Iran would set off.

Not necessarily.  It may be that a nuclear Iran would be just the spur that is needed to force leaders inside and outside the Middle East region to get serious about creating such a nuclear-free zone.  Certainly, there is little else that would get Israel to the table.

Also, it is not obvious that a nuclear Iran would spark a regional wave of nuclear proliferation.  For one thng, Iran might well take preemptive action against any regional rival that tried to proliferate, or otherwise successfully deter them.  More likely, those rivals may choose to rely instead on the United States and other outside powers to deter Iran and guarantee their own security.  They have a lot to trade for that protection.  Indeed, the prospect that a nuclear Iran would drive even deeper US entanglement in that region is one of the best reasons to worry about it.

So, as far as the goal of nuclear nonproliferation goes, it is not clear what approach to Iran would best serve this goal.  I am inclined to the view that each additional nuclear power increases the danger.  But it is not obvious that this is true.

I would say there are several very good reasons to worry about a nuclear Iran, but they all come down to this: Nuclear weapons would substantially increase Iranian power, which is already on the rise, and allow it to aspire to the role of regional superpower.  And there is hardly any nation in the world, outside of Iran itself, whose strategic interests are served by the growth of Iran into a regional superpower.

One frequently hears the suggestion that it doesn’t matter to us who owns and controls the oil in the oil-producing regions of the world.  So long as those places are reasonably stable, and have governments capable of securing their oilfields and their production infrastructure, the oil will continue to flow.  The profit motive will drive the owners to sell their oil on the open market to the highest bidder, where we can buy it.

This strikes me as a terribly naïve view, rooted in a failure of imagination.  Consider the following counterexample: the United States did not sell computer technology to the Soviet Union and its allies at a market-set price, although there was surely much demand in those places for that technology.  The short-term commercial profits to be won through technology sales were judged inferior to the strategic profit of keeping the Soviet military and economy stuck in a lower gear of information productivity.

Consider now some regional Iranian superpower, with strategic control of the region’s petroleum resources, and reflect on the fact that the world’s military machines run on oil.  At some point the Iranian strategic calculus may very well shift, and the value of the profits to be garnered from selling the oil to the highest bidder on the open market will seem to be outweighed by strategic value of selling it to a more limited circle of buyers, at perhaps a lower price, but in the process starving the US military machine.

The way we guarantee ourselves a supply of oil is by having allies and security clients, such as Saudi Arabia, where the combination of the profit motive and the need for protection governs their thinking.  And if several friendly nations are already selling us oil, then even in the unfriendly countries the profit motive takes over, since strategic embargos are unworkable.

Until some combination of national will and individual genius here in the US succeeds in developing powerful and viable alternative energy technologies that can relieve us of our fatal addiction to oil, strategic considerations related to petroleum will continue to plague us.  Those interests would not be served at all by the presence of an Iranian superpower in the Middle East.  They are served by seeing petroleum resources in the hands of several different sovereign states, whose relations are determined by a regional balance of power.

If the Middle East did not possess anything we needed, it should not matter much to us who controlled the region politically and militarily.  But they do have something we need, and so we can’t afford to ignore the issue.  This sickens me.  The whole idea that the property of other people should constitute for us a “vital national interest” strikes me as a repulsive and dishonorable situation.  And the fact that our national leaders seem so little concerned with ending this intolerable situation represents a deplorable failure of our politics.  But until we figure out how to do this, we are forced to care about petroleum.  The Europeans and the Chinese are forced to care as well, which is why we have the makings of a rough agreement on international policy toward Iran.

But, let's return to the issue of the need to turn back the tide of nuclear proliferation.  Nuclear proliferation is, in itself, a fearsome prospect.  Since the end of the Cold War, a lot of Americans – particularly younger Americans it seems to me – have grown shockingly complacent about the spread of nuclear weapons.  Despite the best efforts of strategists and diplomats to maintain the balance of power and preserve the peace, wars do occur – and when they occur, the carnage that results is a function of the destructive capabilities of the warring countries armed forces and armaments.  Balance of power considerations being equal, a world armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons is a more dangerous place then a world armed only with tanks, planes and other conventional armaments.

During the Cold War, we came close on a handful of occasions to catastrophe.  There were then only a few nuclear players, and two main alliances.  A world with 15, or 25 or 50 nuclear powers, and fragmented, multipolar power blocs, will be a frightfully dangerous place.  When deterrence fails, as it always eventually does, all hell will literally break loose.

Even acknowledging that rhetoric can be rhetoric, the new government of President Ahmadinejad has been out there: Ahmadinejad's in-your-face speech at the UN in September, his calls for Israel's destruction and/or relocation to Europe, his anti-Americanism vitriolic even in the Khomeini era context, his rebuffing of the Europeans in the nuclear proliferation negotiations, even stiff-arming the Nobel Peace Prize-winning IAEA. This is extreme stuff which notwithstanding Bush's axis of evil rhetoric, criticisms of Sharon and other valid points, can't be explained away.


This passage smacks of dishonest rhetoric.  Didn't the U.S. "stiff-arm the Nobel Peace Prize-winning IAEA" when we ignored what they were saying and invaded Iraq on false pretenses?  Oh well, that was us -- never mind that one.  But when someone else doesn't bow down to "Nobel Peace Prize-winning IAEA," it's a sign of their dangerous instability.  Has Israel ever co-operated with the IAEA?  With Europe over the issues of nuclear arms?  Nevermind -- not fair of me to ask that one, is it.  Anti-American rhtoric?  How about "Axis of evil."  BTW, with such ferocious rhetoric, how many countries has Iran invaded in the past 10 years?  Past 20?  Nevermind -- not fair of me again.  I'm such a bastard!  


It's "extreme stuff" when the other guy does it.  When we do it, it's business as usual.


As an aside, I'm quickly growing tired of the flaccid, dull hacks who post on foreign affairs here.  If I wanted to read weak, tiresome, "We're always right and threatened, they're always wrong and dangerous" stuff like this I'd be at whitehouse.gov.

At some point the Iranian strategic calculus may very well shift, and the value of the profits to be garnered from selling the oil to the highest bidder on the open market will seem to be outweighed by strategic value of selling it to a more limited circle of buyers, at perhaps a lower price, but in the process starving the US military machine.

"The United States" does not purchase oil from countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. We don't have a nationalized petroleum industry. Instead, US based corporations, many with foreign stockholders, purchase oil for their own profit making businesses. This is generally true of the whole international oil market. The analogy to computers is a bad one. Oil is freely sold and purchased around the world, so that the ultimate destination of that oil is unknown to the original seller of it. The effect of not having friendly relations with Saudi Arabia, for example, is that US corporations will have a much harder time making sweetheart deals for the oil pumped in Saudi Arabia, and will therefore make a lower profit on the oil products they sell. That doesn't worry me.

State actors in possession of nuclear weapons are exposed to M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). In the case of Iran and North Korea even more so. The Soviet Union could have destroyed this country, the Chinese could have damaged it perhaps beyond repair, but only at the cost of having their nations wiped off the face of the map by US Ballistic Submarines. But North Korea or Iran, even if armed with nukes maybe could destroy a single American city before suffering a similar fate. And the same result would likely be true even if they simply lost control of a weapon, I don't think Rumsfield would care that the Iranian bomb that hit NYC came via a third party. It would be 'bye, bye, Tehran'.


I don't want a nuclear armed Middle East because while I despise the Likudniks at AIPAC and elsewhere I love having an Israel after the centuries of Diaspora. And while I can understand why the US would feel compelled to retaliate after a nuclear strike by Iran or Iraq on Israel, none of that is a fundamental security threat to US people on US soil.


It doesn't matter what kind of wild rhetoric the President of Iran spouts. I sincerely doubt he wants Persia turned into glowing radioactive glass. The real danger is that the US gets spooked into deploying its military based on threats that at worst are theoretical and decades away.


Delivering weapons to the US by missile or submarine require technologies that neither North Korea or Iran realistically have and are easy targets for preemptive attacks. If North Korea does develop and test a long range missile capable of reaching my home north of Seattle, then a couple of hundred cruise missile directed at the launch facility seems a sound precaution. But the existence of atomic capability as such does not automatically translate into immediate security risk for this country, though it certainly does for Tel Aviv.


If Israel decides to bomb Iran's nuclear capable facilities like they bombed Iraq's, well they have the arsenal and the air force to do exactly that. Some Americans might even cheer on the sidelines. But that doesn't make it our responsibility to intervene militarily to prevent Iran getting minor capabilities.

=== The way we guarantee ourselves a supply of oil is by having allies and security clients, such as Saudi Arabia, where the combination of the profit motive and the need for protection governs their thinking. ===

How about we get to work, right now, on breaking our addiction to oil?  We will have to do it within 50 years anyway, why not over the next 10 years?   Have the USG start by placing an order for 200,000 electric cars each from GM and Ford (maybe Chrysler).  Every 5th electric meter or street pole to have a battery recharging station within 2 years.  $1 billion prize for the first company to put a usable SmartCar on the US roads.   $0.05 increase in gasoline tax every other month for the next 5 years.  Stop killing Amtrak.  Stop letting the freight roads attack the commuter service that is left.  Finish all the outstanding light rail expansion projects within 5 years.  Side benefit:  huge jump-start to the US economy.

It would be like a root canal:  very very unpleasant for a period of time.  Then:  a lifetime of relief. 

BTW, most of the imported oil the US consumes physically comes from Venezula.

sPh 

good points, Sph, though I thought the plurality of our oil came from Canada?  Is that wrong?


In any case, we need to start building infrastructure for a post-oil age just as you suggest.  I would add one thing:  every city with 500,000 people in its metropolitan area needs a subway or lightrail or whatever.  Not just finish those projects, but start building a lot more of them.

It doesn't matter what kind of wild rhetoric the President of Iran spouts. I sincerely doubt he wants Persia turned into glowing radioactive glass.


This is why folks like Jentleson are so eager to paint Iran and North Korea as irrational.  You have to establish their craziness, their obvious lack of concern for their lives or their countries, in order to really put the fear on.  Strangely, none of the countries that already have nuclear weapons are run by madmen -- only the countries that are (allegedly) developing nuclear weapons are crazy.  Again, I wonder how that works out.  It seems a fool proof symptom of insanity: try to acquire nuclear weapons, and voila -- you're barking mad.  

Re: At some point the Iranian strategic calculus may very well shift, and the value of the profits to be garnered from selling the oil to the highest bidder on the open market will seem to be outweighed by strategic value of selling it to a more limited circle of buyers, at perhaps a lower price, but in the process starving the US military machine.


Sicne Iran does not have a 100% momnpoly on oil the above is not possible. First off, how can treh iranians prevent "their" oil from going to the United States once it has passed beyond their borders. It's not as if oil is tagged somehow so that people can say "Thsi is Iranian oil, this is North sea oil" etc. But even if the iranians can prevent their oil from going to the US, the US will simply buy oil from other sources. The most the Iranians can do is restrict their own production which will drive up the price.

Responding to Bruce's points:
1) Yes Ahmadinejad's not a very pleasant fellow. But unless he is either insane, or very badly informed, nuclear weapons will simply mean he has more influence.
2) Well, the chain reaction of proliferation was begun much earlier by 2 events: Israel and the Iraq invasion. The fact is that the Arab countries, if they weren't in our pocket our under occupation, would have wanted exactly the same thing to protect them against U.S. invasion and Israeli attack. Until the issue of Israel and American 'preemption' goes away, the nuke issue won't.
3) Multilateralism is the nice idea that the world's major powers can get together, make the rules, and enforce those rules. If powers can't agree, that just means they can't agree. Multilateralism has nothing to do with it. And frankly, most multilateral behavior has been far from benign.
4) No Iran would not want to go back, at least not for a while. Oil ensures they will have plenty of friends if the west abandons them. Unless you can convince China (and Russia) that a nuclear Iran is a threat, it just won't happen. Qaddafi was small, weak and isolated. Iran is not.
Unless we come up with a workable world order on nuclear weapons, there will be more Irans in the future. Then again, maybe if major powers led by example, rather than force or coercion, there might be a chance of such a thing occurring.

Both buyers and sellers in the oil trade can, and do, place restrictions on that trade.  Some countries will not buy oil that is produced or refined in certain other countries.  And some countries will not sell oil or oil products to certain other countries.

For example, the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control currently currently oversees both import and export restrictions on trade with Iran.  Here are some passages from OFAC's own description of those rules:

In general, unless licensed by OFAC, goods, technology (including technical data or other information subject to Export Administration Regulations), or services may not be exported, reexported, sold or supplied, directly or indirectly, from the United States or by a U.S. person, wherever located, to Iran or the Government of Iran. The ban on providing services includes any brokering function from the United States or by U.S. persons, wherever located. For example, a U.S. person, wherever located, or any person acting within the United States, may not broker offshore transactions that benefit Iran or the Government of Iran, including sales of foreign goods or arranging for third-country financing or guarantees.

In general, a person may not export from the U.S. any goods, technology or services, if that person knows or has reason to know such items are intended specifically for supply, transshipment or reexportation to Iran. Further, such exportation is prohibited if the exporter knows or has reason to know the U.S. items are intended specifically for use in the production of, for commingling with, or for incorporation into goods, technology or services to be directly or indirectly supplied, transshipped or reexported exclusively or predominately to Iran or the Government of Iran. A narrow exception is created for the exportation from the United States or by U.S. persons wherever located of low-level goods or technology to third countries for incorporation or substantial transformation into foreign-made end products, provided the U.S. content is insubstantial, as defined in the regulations, and certain other conditions are met.

The fact that the United States does not have a nationalized oil industry does not seem that important to me.  Trade restrictions can be placed on sales to the nationals of other countries, or to their governments, or to private companies for shipment to those countries.  Iran, if it so chose, could impose a variety of restrictions with the aim of preventing the ultimate sale of its oil to buyers inside the United States.  It may be hard to enforce the export restrictions in the present environment.  But if Iran controlled a larger share of the oil supply, and had greater military influence over its neighbors,  they would have the leverage to enforce its will.  Companies that participate in complex schemes to launder the restricted oil could be shut off.  If the seller is big enough, the private firms have a strong incentive to cooperate with sanctions regimes or other trade rules imposed by those sellers.  they also have an incentive to play ball if their assets in other countries are placed in military jeopardy.

Once upon a time, we might have been able to rest comfortable with the assurance that the United States is such a large buyer of oil that no oil producer could afford to shut us out, whatever their political preferences.  But as Chinese oil demand continues to skyrocket, as well as that of other countries, the size of the US market will become less and less of a factor.  The eventual decline in supply will also play a role in weakening the US hold on the direction of oil markets.

It is dangerous to make strategic plans based solely on the way markets are currently structured and ruled, since the structures and rules are themselves the results of strategic decisions and the outcome of global competition.  As economic and military power shifts, so does the ability to control markets.  I am surprised by the readiness of many to believe that very powerful producers would not have the ability to control where their product, and the product of others, goes.  Markets do not operate in an ethereal free market realm beyond the control of the major players in the markets.  They are run or governed by those with the power to control them, and are only as free as their rulers allow them to be.  That the current trading system tends to serve the interests of the United States is a function of US power.  It is also a function of the US history of using that power to divide and conquer, and to maintain a trading order in which there are a diversity of suppliers, in competition with one another, so that all are constrained by their relative weakness to sell to the highest bidder, and are not free to pursue more aggressive long-term strategies.

The US has worked for years to weaken OPEC's ability to control oil prices, and to use oil as a political weapon.  It has been partly successful because the OPEC nations are politically divided, and pursue conflicting interests.  If Iran, however, were to someday acquire control of the oil reserves of Iraq and Saudi Arabia, some of that division would disappear.

In fact, while I don't doubt that the Iranian government would like several nuclear weapons in order to counter Israel's possession of same, which would give them slightly more freedom of movement in the geopolitical sense, it is likely that the primary reason for their nuclear program is to generate more electricity - so they can sell more of their oil overseas.

Obviously the US oil companies would like to see them sell LESS oil overseas as that would increase the price - just as the Iraq war has done very nicely, leading to record profits for the oil companies that Bush's relatives and cronies just happen to have investments in.

The other utterly obvious reason for this anti-Iran stance is Israel, which owns US foreign policy and would obviously be inconvenienced in their attempts to drive out the Palestinians and take over the bulk of the Middle East given a nuclear-armed Iran.

This stuff is so obvious it's pathetic that people are still digging up reasons why a nuclear-armed Iran must be prevented at all costs.

As far Israel giving up on stopping Iran, an article in today's Sunday Times states that Israel has initiated planning for a military strike on Iran to be done in March after the latest IAEA report then. The order has gone out to prepare for air and special forces ground attacks on Iran. Sharon has reiterated that they will NOT accept a nuclear Iran.

The problem for Israel is that their air forces cannot operate for any length of time over Iran due to distance problems. Their forces also cannot hit all of the targets needed to be hit without additional support.

That support will be provided by US carriers and air bases in the Middle East (probably including Iraq.) This will result in Iran firing back at US ships and bases - which is exactly the excuse Bush wants to attack Iran with nuclear weapons - a plan already in the making as reports from the Pentagon have established.

In other words, far from de-escalating the Middle East wars and seeking stability, the neocons are going all out to destabilize EVERYTHING in the Middle East - all for the benefit of Israel and the oil companies and their own ideology of US empire.

Anybody who thinks the war is winding down in Iraq is living in a fool's paradise. It's about to be expanded in Iraq and in Iran, and will probably result in hundreds of thousands of deaths (both US and Iraqi and Iranian) as the Shia in Iraq ally with Iran in attacking the US troops in Iraq, and the Iranians shut down the Persian Gulf to all oil shipments and support attacks on Israel by the Hizballah in Lebanon and elsewhere. Syria may become involved as well, since the US obviously wants regime change there.

The neocons don't care that the US military is dangerously overstretched and can't handle a major war with Iran at this point. They literally DO NOT CARE. They have three more years of Bush as President in which to achieve their goals - and if Bush is not impeached, they will continue to destroy the Middle East, destroy civil liberties in the US, and destroy the US economy. 

Better start stocking up on gasoline for next summer - there won't be any at the pump.

 

Sharon - Ready Iran Strike By March
Times UK


Beware the Ides...

Nothing like a little advance notice!

Qods Force ready?

If Iran goes nuclear, the risks are higher that for a combination of insecurity and prestige other countries in the region will seek their own WMD. And I don't just mean Israel and its presumed existing nuclear weapons. Put your bets on Iraq under President Mokhtada al-Sadr (a separate discussion, of course).

Muqtada Sadr, President of Iran?

Talk about a dark horse!  


At any rate, it isn't a separate discussion.


That's the problem with this one, of course

Iran is a very interesting country, with a complex and elaborate constitutional government, a system of checks and balances, and a political culture that draws on several important ideological streams.

But one important component in that culture remains the revolutionary stream flowing from the events of 1979.  Although that revolutionary spirit may be diminished, it is still very significant.  I would say that the world has abundant reason for continued concern about the rise of Iran, just as Europe had abundant reason for concern about the rise of Napoleon in the aftermath of the French Revolution.  That does not mean Iran is on a deterministic course leading toward expansion and aggression.  But it does mean it pays to be prudent, and to do what we need to do to dissuade Iran from such a course, should some members of its political elite be so inclined.

Ahmadinejad is, in my opinion, a punk and a cretin.  Fortunately, his power inside Iran seems somewhat limited at the present time.  We cannot be certain that it always will be the case, or that either Ahmadinejad or some like-minded successor will not succeed in wresting more power from his rivals.

The possibility that Iran might engage at some point in the future in reckless ideologically-driven aggression strikes me as enough of a possibility that we must take it into account in our strategic planning.  And I am not just talking about the strategic planning of the United States and other powerful countries, but the strategic planning of what is left of the international community.  The world community has ample reason to eye Iran warily.

The US ihas also just gone through a reckless and ideologically assertive phase, and may still be in it.  So, I am not persuaded by the argument that we don't need to worry about Iran because what Iran and its leaders are up to is no worse than what the US and its leaders are up to.  Surely that would be bad enough!  I suspect a good many people around the world these days would tell you that they are worried about both Iran and the US.

As a country's power grows, the more assertive and belicose elements inside that country are often empowered, and tempted to overreaching, aggression and recklessness.  We have just seen this phenomenon at work in the United States, partly as a result of the intoxication of Cold War triumphalism.  Iran's power has grown as a result of the Iraq War, and its power will grow yet more if it acquires nuclear weapons.  It seems to me that the world's interest is served by encouraging continued, peaceful economic development inside Iran, while checking its military power and deterring it from assertive military moves.  This should be a broad-based global effort.

How about we get to work, right now, on breaking our addiction to oil?  We will have to do it within 50 years anyway, why not over the next 10 years?

I'm with you sPh; but I'm sure you are as depressed as I am by the reflection that it is very unlikely that we will get started on such a project at any time during the next three years.

If we opt for the military strike,” said a source, “it must be not less than 100% successful. It will resemble the destruction of the Egyptian air force in three hours in June 1967.”



If only Dyan had telegraphed his plans to Nasser in 1967, we wouldn't be having this discussion today


Raising only three possibiliities that I see:

1. The IDF has lost all operation competence
2. Sharon has lost control of the IDF
3. Paper tiger...paper tiger...paper tiger

For the sake of context Dr. Jentleson...



Muqtada Rising
Gilber Achar's Special Report on the Emerging Power of Muqtada Sadr


    Cole:

    In February of 2004 I got a long message that maintained that Muqtada al-Sadr's movement was dissipating and that the US was about to put $18 billion of reconstruction money into Iraq, which would jump-start the economy, draw off dissidents, and make the place peaceful and flourishing. Two months later the entire South and Baghdad were in flames as Muqtada's Mahdi Army fought the Coalition military for two solid months. The security situation has never allowed the reconstruction aid to be invested in a way that would lead to development and away from guerrilla war. And virtually everything this seasoned US observer on the ground in provincial Iraq had predicted to me turned out to be a pipe dream. The pipe dreams spring eternal, but they are mirages. In the near to medium term, those Americans who rush through the desert sands in the torrid miasma of the Iraqi midday sun, seeking to throw themselves into the shimmering lakes of peace and prosperity just over the horizon, will be found later at the foot of a dune, lips cracked and skin blackened, their eyeballs the food of scorpions and lizards.

Ahmadinejad is, in my opinion, a punk and a cretin.  Fortunately, his power inside Iran seems somewhat limited at the present time.  We cannot be certain that it always will be the case, or that either Ahmadinejad or some like-minded successor will not succeed in wresting more power from his rivals.


Perhaps he is a "punk and a cretin"; I have no idea -- but I'm not going to make up my mind about him based on MEMRI translations of his speeches, and I expect people who should know better themselves to act like they know better and not try to play me for a fool.  


I remember, many moons ago, when Khadafi was the boogieman.  Suddenly all these stories started popping up about how crazy he was -- he was alleged to be a cross dresser, all sorts of nutty stuff.  Has the United States ever had an adversary who wasn't unstable?  


Iran and Napoleonic France....

After we agree to be concerned, alarmed, shocked or whatever by Iran and its desire to become nuclear capable lets look at US options to prevent this.

First there is a fundamental brick wall in that Iran has never signed anything that prohibits Iran from being nuclear capable.  Iran has never signed anything that says Iran can not have the complete fuel cycle.  Iran has never signed anything that says that Iran could not leave the NPT if it felt its security was threatened and build a weapon.

As concerned and alarmed as I concede you are, Iran living up to its international obligations is in no way inconsistent with Iran having a full fuel cycle and the ability to build a weapon if it was to leave the treaty.

The reason this is important is because even if Europe is willing to skip over that fact, Russia and China will not be. It is commonly said that Russia and China do not want to pass a resolution imposing new obligations on Iran because of their commercial interests.  The real reason is that Russia and China do not want new resolutions to come out of nowhere that go against their interests.  This is an issue of whether or not there are rules at all.

Another reason this is important is because the US and EU flagrantly flout their NPT obligations to withhold cooperation from non NPT states in the case of Israel but is attempting to change the rules mid-game on Iran.

So basically, you can let the idea of a security council resolution that is anything more than symbolic just leave your head.  It is not an option.  As concerned and alarmed as the US and EU are, the security council will not punish Iran for failing to go beyond the rules of the NPT. 

So what's left is either military strikes or sanctions.

Sanctions first:  The US already shot its bullet.  The EU could impose sanctions outside of the UNSC.  Iran would pay more to get goods from Dubai and other places.  Iran seems to be willing to do this.  Iran will make noises in this case and the price of oil will go up enough to leave Iran well compensated for the sanctions.

Military strikes second:  The US and Israel can do this.  They cannot get a regime change.  Of course the people of Iran will rally behind their leaders.  Without regime change Iran can stay in the NPT if it wants or maybe Russia, China or Pakistan will agree to help Iran's program if Iran leaves the NPT or maybe one will sell Iran a weapon in the new security environment.  Overall bombing Iran may or may not push back the day that Iran has a working weapon.  If Iran is really five or more years away now, bombing Iran may cause Iran to get a weapon sooner than not bombing Iran.

After the US bombs Iran, Iran will not invade Iraq or Afghanistan but the insurgents will sure get better weapons.  And the US is certainly not ready to invade or try to occupy Iran.

So while I feel your pain and understand your concern the choices are get Europe to impose sanctions, attack Iran or do nothing.  Spell out which option you prefer and we can talk about it.

If the US is lucky and the regime in Tehran is about to tumble any minute now then doing nothing is by far the preferable choice.  If not, it still might be the preferable choice. 

There is a finite demand for oil in the world, at any given time. If producer nation X refuses to allow its oil to continue to go to the USA, then that oil is available to other nations, and will be purchased by them. That frees up the oil that those other nations were buying, making it available for purchase by US companies. In other words, if Saudi oil were taken away from us, that oil would displace other oil in the world market, making that other oil available to us. If a nation produces oil, one way or another that oil will be in the world market and will benefit our consumers. However, our oil companies might make lower profits, having to deal thru more middle men to get their supply. And, that is what the Iraq invasion is about.

JMACSF,


Thanks; makes the point that the "strategy for victory" Bush is touting may produce victory -- but for Sadr not us or anyone close to a moderate/ally/"democrat".


Bruce Jentleson

Thanks for the reminder:


First there is a fundamental brick wall in that Iran has never signed anything that prohibits Iran from being nuclear capable.  Iran has never signed anything that says Iran can not have the complete fuel cycle.  Iran has never signed anything that says that Iran could not leave the NPT if it felt its security was threatened and build a weapon.


Before we get to the point that there is nothing we can do about it given the imminent Victory in IraQ, it is well that we realize there nothing that Iran has done nothing wrong in the first place.

Intl-Law abiding..There is .nothing to refer

First of all ME is not nuclear free anymore with Israel having nuclear weapons. I kinda agree with Dr. Ahmadinejad that the west should change its policy in regards to palestinians and they should not be ignored they way they are. I mean how bad your life should be that suicide is the only way out for you. 

I find it amusing that commentators on Iran talk about Ahmadinejad. He is neither the head of the Iranian state nor commander-in-chief of their military. His sanity or lack thereof has nothing to do with whether Iran would use nuclear weapons. That honor belongs to Ayatollah Khamenei.

"It may be that a nuclear Iran would be just the spur that is needed to force leaders inside and outside the Middle East region to get serious about creating such a nuclear-free zone.  Certainly, there is little else that would get Israel to the table."


If by "a nuclear Iran" you mean Iran's possessing a nuclear weapon I should think that taking preemptive action to avert such an outcome would likely be a better spur. I'm even willing to go so far to say that taking out a weapons-making operation with a nuclear weapon might be just the ticket. The idea of any nation possessing any nuclear weapons is an idea whose time has come to go. While I'm not promoting the use of a nuclear weapon for any purpose, I couldn't think of a better use for one. The entire constellation of rationalizations and what ifs that gravitates to so-called nuclear policy is nothing but a chimera.

Now you're talking! Amen.

1.  Is there any evidence that Iran is developing non-nuclear WMD?

2.  If so, would that help support the theory that Iran's nuclear program is also for the purpose of developing WMD?   

3.  Some have argued that Iran has just as much right as any other country to acquire nuclear weapons.  But if that is so, then what is the purpose of the Non-Proliferation Treaty?

- MiddleGround

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