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Someone Tell the Marines Fallujah is Pacified

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Horribly sad news out of Iraq overnight.  Ten brave Marines died in a bomb blast while clearing a factory in Fallujah.  At least another eleven of their brothers were wounded during the same operation.   I guess the insurgents in Fallujah did not get the memo from Condi Rice and other Bush Administration hawks that things are fine and the insurgency is, as Dick Cheney said, in "its last throes".


Just two months ago Condi Rice claimed:

Each day increased numbers of trained and equipped Iraqi security forces are being fielded against the insurgents, Rice said. And, "with more capable Iraqi forces, we can implement this element of the strategy," she explained, which is to have Iraqi troops go "neighborhood by neighborhood" to flush out insurgents and secure territory.  . . .Former Iraq hot spots are being pacified, Rice said, noting that security along the Baghdad airport road "has measurably improved." In contrast to a year ago, life is also now calmer in places like Mosul, Najaf, Fallujah, and formerly frenetic parts of downtown Baghdad, Rice said.

Condi was not the only one seeing light at the end of the Fallujah Tunnel.  Marine Major General Johnson (no relation) told reporters in a press conference broadcast from Fallujah on October 7, 2005:

"The Iraqi army, still partnered with Multinational Force-West forces, has grown in capability and size and, in my view, professionalism. One Iraqi army division and two-thirds of another one are conducting operations in Al Anbar province with our forces. Embedded in those organization are military transition teams that mentor, train and assist the Iraqi forces. And last month, for the first time, one of the brigades of the 1st Iraqi Division took over a battlespace for the first time on its own and it's taken the lead in planning and coordinating and executing operations in that battlespace."


All well and good until you consider the implications of this attack.  The Marines were clearing a factory.  The enormous blast that killed our Marines had been carefully placed inside over a period of time.  This appears to have been an ambush.  Clearly the Marines had poor intelligence about the factory and there was no control around its perimeter in the days preceding the patrol.  No neighbors in the area chose to alert U.S. forces that they were walking into the jaws of death.  And, more importantly, where were the damn Iraqi troops accompanying our Marines?  Why didn't they fan out in advance and gather intel that might have prevented the loss of these brave troops.


When you are fighting an insurgency and do not have the genuine support of the locals, it is relatively easy to kill alot of Americans.  God bless the souls of these brave Marines who have died fulfilling their duty.  Too bad their civilian leaders do not have the same code of honor and integrity.


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"Today, these cities [Fallujah, Najaf, and Samara] are under Iraqi government control, and the political process is taking hold."

-- OUR NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR VICTORY IN IRAQ:
Helping the Iraqi People Defeat the Terrorists and Build an Inclusive Democratic State
, released by the White House November 30, 2005

Larry


Is there anyone in our government doing the political work to help bring more Iraqis around to our side?

We are on track to reach a fateful number of killed soldiers. Sometime in June, if we "stay the course," we will exceed in military deaths the number killed on 9/11. Of, course, the casualties are way beyond, and we easily forget these are usually not a "simple" gunshot wound, bad enough for major internal damage, but often horrifying disfigurement and permanent disability.

It hurts a lot to have to tell our men and women in uniform "Thanks for trying, anyway". This is why we have to keep a tight leash on our leaders, including Democrats, of course, so they are not tempted into the Great Game, so entertaining at a distance.

Congress should never again vote a resolution like the one "authorizing" the Iraq invasion. 

Remember Karen Hughes (the non-speaker of Arabic)?  Sorry, don't mean to be so snide.  But the short answer is no.  Both the military and the CIA are, I am told, "scraping the bottom of the barrel" looking for qualified Arabists.  As a result our troops are in the field and left essentially blind and deaf because they do not have enough qualified Arab-speaking translators.  What you are implying by your question is spot on.

LJ

As a result our troops are in the field and left essentially blind and deaf because they do not have enough qualified Arab-speaking translators.


Well, we had some.


Ooops. They're gay.

Do people think that we have won the hearts and minds of the residents of Fallujah?  We razed their city.  This is no reflection on the US troops, they are trained to follow orders which they did.  


Iraq is a chaotic "Wild West".  And like the little Dutch Boy we are running around Iraq trying to put our finger in the holes of an ever leakier dike.


Every time I hear these stories my blood boils.  What a waste of fine men, it is tragic how many we have lost.  Men who had families who will never see them again.  As far as democracy being "on the march" in Iraq, count me as a skeptic...

while we grieve over more needless deaths in iraq, try and choke bill bennett's latest wisdom down - if you can...

<h3 class="post-title"> Bill Bennett: purple fingers vs. "the 2000 or so soldiers we have lost..." </h3&gt
"On Dec. 12, when elections begin in Iraq," Bennett told Neil Cavuto in a Fox News Channel interview, "let's see many Americans color their right index finger purple in solidarity for the people voting in free elections in Iraq."
great... another gimmick... about as empty and meaningless as the goddam magnetic yellow "support our troops" emblems stuck all over cars... i'm all for the iraqi electoral process but, as much as it needs to go forward, we desperately need to have a serious goddam national discussion about iraq - which coloring our right index fingers in purple ink has nothing to do with... just like the yellow ribbons, it's a mindless feel-good gesture that makes people THINK they're contributing and involved when they're really only aiding and abetting mindless propaganda...

oh, yeah, and here's another little bennett gem...
"Many people in America are more distressed about it (the war in Iraq) than the people who are living through the crisis," Bennett said. "Staying the course is a prudent policy and one that will ensure that the 2000 or so soldiers we have lost will not have died in vain."
i don't bloody think so... am i MORE distressed than somebody who's IN IRAQ...? is THAT what you mean to say, you FLAMING HORSE'S PATOOT...? and then there's the throwaway casualness of the "2000 or so soldiers we have lost..." how literally gagging...

"Many people in America are more distressed about it (the war in Iraq) than the people who are living through the crisis," Bennett said. "Staying the course is a prudent policy and one that will ensure that the 2000 or so soldiers we have lost will not have died in vain."
i don't bloody think so... am i MORE distressed than somebody who's IN IRAQ...? is THAT what you mean to say, you FLAMING HORSE'S PATOOT...? and then there's the throwaway casualness of the "2000 or so soldiers we have lost..." how literally gagging...<h3 class="post-title"> </h3&gt
"On Dec. 12, when elections begin in Iraq," Bennett told Neil Cavuto in a Fox News Channel interview, "let's see many Americans color their right index finger purple in solidarity for the people voting in free elections in Iraq."

great... another gimmick... about as empty and meaningless as the goddam magnetic yellow "support our troops" emblems stuck all over cars... i'm all for the iraqi electoral process but, as much as it needs to go forward, we desperately need to have a serious goddam national discussion about iraq - which coloring our right index fingers in purple ink has nothing to do with... just like the yellow ribbons, it's a mindless feel-good gesture that makes people THINK they're contributing and involved when they're really only aiding and abetting mindless propaganda...

oh, yeah, and here's another little bennett gem... <h3 class="post-title"> </h3&gt

 

"On Dec. 12, when elections begin in Iraq," Bennett told Neil Cavuto in a Fox News Channel interview, "let's see many Americans color their right index finger purple in solidarity for the people voting in free elections in Iraq."
oh, yeah, and here's another little bennett gem... i don't bloody think so... am i MORE distressed than somebody who's IN IRAQ...? is THAT what you mean to say, you FLAMING HORSE'S PATOOT...? and then there's the throwaway casualness of the "2000 or so soldiers we have lost..." how literally gagging...

 

And, yes, I DO take it personally 

 

Larry -
Do the military and/or CIA ever recruit for foreign languages amongst Mormons (LDS)?
 
To carry out their 2 year missions they have to learn the language of the locals.  Maybe some have learned Arabic. [Having lived in LDS territory, Idaho, I met returning  missionaries who had learned a second language at the LDS language school around Salt Lake and then used that language almost exclusively while abroad.]

Larry -
Do the military and/or CIA ever recruit for foreign languages amongst Mormons (LDS)?
 
To carry out their 2 year missions they have to learn the language of the locals.  Maybe some have learned Arabic. [Having lived in LDS territory, Idaho, I met returning  missionaries who had learned a second language at the LDS language school around Salt Lake and then used that language almost exclusively while abroad.]

Yes they do.  Big time.

I am nearly overcome with anger at the incompetents running this war and our country.  These are real people being killed and maimed, while our president talks about the "progress" that is being made in Iraq in his "Plan for Victory" speech.  One wonders when his "clear strategy for victory" will begin to show results.  One doesn't have to wonder too long to come to the conclusion that it won't be soon.

That is the reality of the Iraq war.

This pack of neoincompetents running our country along with their baying dogs in the media rightwing should all spend a week, a day, an hour...at veterans' hospitals changing wound vacs and cleaning beds and face the reality of what they've wrought.


Meanwhile, the Israelis are apparently trying to talk this crowd out of repeating themselves in Syria.


The Nexis of Evil is the White House.  Where is the honor?


Daughter of a WW II Marine, sickened.

Irishkg,

The National Guard maintains an entire brigade of linguists. This brigade's headquarters and personnel center of gravity are located in Utah precisely to avail itself of LDS-trained linguistic assets.

The problem as it relates to Arabic is that there are relatively few LDS missions to Islamic countries, owing to safety reasons. You will not see two Mormon lads riding their bikes down the street in Saudi Arabia or Yemen.

The questions that keep coming to my mind these last several weeks regarding the people running this country are -- how many times must these jokers be dead wrong, how many times must they screw up, how many times must they lie before they lose all credibility? At this point, why does the media and the thinking public take what they say and do seriously anymore? Except for the fact that they are in power, what they say should be totally discounted and what they do be totally opposed.

It is like scientists having to argue with creationist over the fact of evolution. It is a tremendous waste of breath because, scientifically, there is no basis for an argument.

It is like watching college educated adults expending enormous amounts of time and energy writing papers and debating 3 year olds regarding the toddler's ill-informed and random utterances regarding the nature of the world. 

It hurts a lot to have to tell our men and women in uniform "Thanks for trying, anyway". This is why we have to keep a tight leash on our leaders, including Democrats, of course, so they are not tempted into the Great Game, so entertaining at a distance.

The only one's telling the soldiers that are the "anti-leaders" of the Democratic party. Murtha says the Army is broken, Pelosi says we have to leave now, Ted Kennedy says (something unintelligable followed by a hic-up, but we know he wants to run too). I could go on, well until you get to Republicans of and soldiers, who happen to think we can win the war on terror.

I could go on, well until you get to Republicans of and soldiers, who happen to think we can win the war on terror.

If there is a "war on terror" it isn't being fought in Iraq. What is happening in Iraq is an occupation, by an invading army, of a country that doesn't want them there. That occupation cannot possibly end in anything resembling a victory for our side. At best we can leave following a sort of election, which sort of installs a sort of government, most probably headed and dominated by Shiites, who will then proceed to slaughter those they consider Baathists. There is a slight possibilitiy that that sort of government will agree to allow US corporations to steal the oil from Iraq, but not a big enough probability to bet anything on.

If there is a "war on terror" it isn't being fought in Iraq. What is happening in Iraq is an occupation, by an invading army, of a country that doesn't want them there. That occupation cannot possibly end in anything resembling a victory for our side. At best we can leave following a sort of election, which sort of installs a sort of government, most probably headed and dominated by Shiites, who will then proceed to slaughter those they consider Baathists. There is a slight possibilitiy that that sort of government will agree to allow US corporations to steal the oil from Iraq, but not a big enough probability to bet anything on.

Dude, if you could just somehow squeeze that onto a bumper sticker you'd garuntee Republican land slides in '06' and '08'. Actually you can Dean-Pelosi '08' (I can hear "Happy Days are Hear Again" blasting already).

I think the neoincompetents can go to Iraq and replace our troops so they can come home safely. You know that ain't gonna happen.

The answer is that this will never work, which is why we should leave ASAP and stop fueling the insurgency.

Meanwhile Bill will be safe in the casinos gambling and planning a large scale abortion campaign aimed at African-Americans, and giving the occasional lecture on how immoral the rest of us underlings are.

The shame is that many of us learned this lesson after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was passed in August 1964 based on fraudelent information (sound familiar?), but we weren't listened to. Todays Austin American Statesman has an article about how the second Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened (tell us something we didn't know.

This post should be used in Logic 101 course as an example of illogic.

  Fallujah IS pacified- only those that would zero in on an incident like this to justify a "failure in Iraq" would see islamofacist "freedom fighters" around every corner.  I wish that more people could see just how hard it is to find those two or three guys that are planting these hard to find/see roadside IEDs.  I guarantee that the local population- who still seem to live in these "raised" communities- do not want them planting bombs where their kids walk to school.  I do concede that many of the preconceptions of what Iraq would be like are wrong- but don' t think that the guys I know who have been wounded would say that what we are attempting to achieve is not worth their loss.

That's because psychologically it is so difficult to see the big picture when you're actually fighting. You're fighting to protect your buddies. They may have to come home before the reality sinks in. I heard one 27 year vet speak Tuesday night. He realized before he left Iraq that he had been conned. By the way the military is trying avoid paying his promised college tuition.

I really don't give a rat's butt whether some generals or even most of the soldiers in Iraq "think" they can win this war.

They cannot win it. Period. You cannot invade a country, massacre civilians (especially in a tribal society), put a puppet government in place, then turn around and "win hearts and minds" OR "kill insurgents."

Totally impossible.  

Any soldier in the US military - current or previous - who thinks this war can be "won" is a moron. That simple. Either that or his view of "winning" is massacring a few million more Iraqis or nuking the entire country - which equates to "moron" in my book. 

The ONLY thing the US can do to get ANY positive result out of the current situation is to leave - TOMORROW. Start packing and get out. As Scott Ritter put it, "Today is the best day we're going to have in Iraq. Tomorrow is going to be worse and so is the day after." 

We have taken a weak, irrelevant dictatorship and replaced it with a destabilized and destabilizing nest of pissed-off people with unlimited weapons and nothing better to do than kill each other, kill us, and be used by every other country around them to mess things up globally for the next ten, twenty or thirty years. This is the biggest strategic disaster in US military history - it makes Vietnam (with whom we now do some business) look like a cakewalk.

And those Marines who were killed were not "fine, brave soldiers" - they were brainwashed idiots following illegal orders which resulted in massive civilian deaths in Fallujah and elsewhere which equates to being war criminals.

The hell with them. They will impress me when they lay their weapons down and mutiny against their officers when they finally realize they're doing criminal acts for criminals.

-- how many times must these jokers be dead wrong, how many times must they screw up, how many times must they lie before they lose all credibility? At this point, why does the media and the thinking public take what they say and do seriously anymore? Except for the fact that they are in power, what they say should be totally discounted and what they do be totally opposed.

They only have to be wrong once (see 9/11 2001)

The shame is that many of us learned this lesson after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was passed in August 1964 based on fraudelent information (sound familiar?), but we weren't listened to. Todays Austin American Statesman has an article about how the second Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened (tell us something we didn't know.

Yeah....yeah...yeah... and George Bush knew about 9/11 before it was gonna happen. Oh and don't forget that all the Jews stayed out of the towers that day because their government gave them advanced warning of the attack.... (did I miss one?)

- 27 year vet? I imagine that if he had joined at age 18 then that would make him 45 years old. All of the E-8, E-9 troops I know are college educated- at least a B.S. or B.A. if not  M.A. or M.B.A.- It is very difficult to attain senior NCO status without a college degree in today's military by the way-and the GI bill is not open to negotiation - except in the place of separation for other than honorable sevice.  Even then it is hard to get that benefit taken away. Protect my buddies? name another war where American men and women fought for any other root reason?  We all see the same news/blogs/press conferences that those stateside do.  To infer that those of us serving are unable to realize the reality we face is to belittle our intelligence.  I have and will knowingly place myself in harms way for an idea that some choose not to agree with- but please put forth an alternative to our current situation that does not involve pulling out of Iraq and further destabilizing the middle east.

And we gladly continue to serve as brainwashed idiot morons for everyone with opinions like yours to be able to speak your mind.

 

He is 27 years old. Vets for Peace gave a local presentation with Vets in a video making the point I made. I don't think it's belittling anyone to say the 'fog of war" makes dispassionate analysis difficult.

So uninformed analysis is also dispassionate?  Your previous post stated a "27 year vet" that's where my error about time in service came from.  "fog of war"- that usually occurs in the actual battle- not in the tent afterwords.  And to grant your point- say it does make it difficult- does that invalidate my opinion?

"Ho Ho Ho".  It's sounding alot like (not Christmas but) Vietnam everywhere you go, as in: "Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh.  NLF is gonna win.  Vietnam for the Vietnamese,  Power to the People's Army."

At the risk of sounding macabre and cynical in the glorious march to victory, how many funerals has dear leader attended since he started his war?  He relishes being a wartime president, but he stood up in the Rose Garden today bragging about the economy and never once mentioned these courageous marines killed in action.  He well knew their fate too.

Despite all his lofty rhetoric, does anyone really know what he is trying to achieve that is worth the loss - the loss that these fighting men and women apparently think is worthwhile?  How about Vietnam vets-do they feel it was worth their loss for what we were trying to achieve back then?  And oh, by the way, where were George Bush and Dick Cheney when their war needed them?  

Which way would the two-and-three man IED business spike if our military left Iraq?  Up or down?  If up, who would be the targets in the absence of brave American soldiers and marines? 

Little muslim children going to school? 

Dude, if you could just somehow squeeze that onto a bumper sticker you'd garuntee Republican land slides in '06' and '08'.

I really doubt that. The last I heard the majority of citizens here isn't far from agreeing with me. And, as the trend is heading, by election time 2006, two thirds of the voters will recognize that I am right. You want to get your order in for that bumper sticker now?

<span>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Resolution</span&gt

 

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2261 

 

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/

 

 

Everyone with a functioning brain knows that Bush and his torturing band of war criminals have lost the war in Iraq. Too many lies, Abu Ghraib torture, a charnel house of slaughter. By pursuing imaginary WMD in Iraq and crippling the US military in the process, Bush may now have allowed Iran to go it's merry way with it's nuclear program. Islamic fundamentalism wins. We will be paying more than the price of 10  more dead Marines before this fiasco is over. 

The 'job' whatever the hell it is, is finished. All the deaths have been for nothing.  It has been a fantasy and a pipedream of 'bringing democracy' at gunpoint to a foreign land.  The 'job' and the American image in the world have been smothered in the bloodbath, torture and incompetent post-war handling by the Bush administration in Iraq.  

Because of the advances in medicine and our delivery of medical care to the battlefield, we're getting a lot less KIAs.  But we are getting a lot more amputees and other severely injured than we ever had before.  And we're not prepared to deal with the badly wounded.  Rep. Murtha spoke of a letter he got from a blind veteran with part of one of his legs missing who was getting dunning notices for the medical expenses he was unable to pay.

What we are attempting to achieve is permanent control of Iraqi oil, permanent military bases and a puppet government with enough willing soldiers that will be able to suppress the population so we can keep their oil and our bases.  

The last I heard the majority of citizens here isn't far from agreeing with me. And, as the trend is heading, by election time 2006, two thirds of the voters will recognize that I am right.

I garuntee the majority of citizens are no where near to agreeing with:
If there is a "war on terror" it isn't being fought in Iraq. What is happening in Iraq is an occupation, by an invading army, of a country that doesn't want them there. That occupation cannot possibly end in anything resembling a victory for our side...most probably headed and dominated by Shiites, who will then proceed to slaughter those they consider Baathists...sort of government will agree to allow US corporations to steal the oil from Iraq...

The only place you could compile anything close to a plurality on those questions is in SanFrancisco or on this site. Both of which would have been anti-Republican and anti-Bush if he had cured cancer, discovered how to create energy from water, or anything else... For all the problems Bush has in the polls, the Democrats seem to be following him down the ladder. It will be interesting this next election cycle, when everyones approval ratings are around 20%, maybe it's time for Richard Prior's "None of the above" candidate in "Brewster's Million's."