Now you understand what is really meant by the Majesty of the Law.
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Comments (67)
Indeed. He was great--dignified, taking a clear legal/moral stand, carefully and clearly explaining the considerations that went into the investigation and the charges, refusing to be drawn into discussion of anything outside the indictment (frustrating for us, of course, but absolutely the right thing). I'm impressed.
I am impressed beyond words with Fitzgerald. So often politics trumps all but not with Fitzgerald. Today gives me hope for justice to be served in America.
Yes Mr. Fitzgerald I agree...making false statements and obstruction of justice are very serious crimes.
I am certainly impressed with Fitzgerald's off-the-cuff responses to the questions from the press. I thought his baseball analogy was more of a bunt than a homerun, but it did advance the baserunner.
I appreciate that Fitzgerald stressed this is an indictment, and Scooter is not guilty until proven so by his peers. He certainly strikes me as a very tough, incredibly smart individual. I wouldn't want him on my tail, that's for sure.
I'm still not exactly clear if the case will be pursued beyond Libby's indictment.
Conversely, listening to the reporters' questions, one has to ask (to borrow from Brad DeLong), "Why Oh Why Can't We Have a Better Press Corps?"
How can you be confident that the charges are valid given that it all comes down to peoples' memories?
Yikes.
he's awesome... a real demonstration of what a public official could and shoud be... he's also totally destroyed the talking point about perjury being a "technicality..."
I didn't fully realize the extent to which I have been disappointed in my government until I heard Fitzgerald speak and felt good about how he comported himself and what he said. It's been a long time since I've felt that way. Somehow the comparison really drove home what I've been missing. There are political solutions to what has happened in government and there are criminal justice solutions. I can only hope our politicians take a cue from Fitzgerald as to how to hold up their end of the social contract.
He reminded of me of someone from an earlier time. Although Fitzgerald didn't get Libby on leaking the identity of Valerie Plame, he did get Libby. Just like Al Capone wasn't convicted of racketeering but of tax evasion, Elliot Ness got his man too. I have a feeling he is somewhere looking in on these proceedings and smiling...
My wild prediction-Cheney eventually resigns not necessarily b/c of an indictment and who does Bush bring on board to save his presidency...John McCain. A McCain-Condi ticket in 2008 would be just around the corner.
Yes, it's amazing when we actually see some gravitas in government, isn't it?
The subtext Fitz's demeanor and MO project is that doing the right thing and doing the smart thing come down to doing the same thing. He's refusing to overshoot the mark. Patience. If the case is there for other indictments that will come in due course.
Insofar as the political fallout is concerned, I believe that if there are indictments trickling out later on that hurts the Republicans by keeping the story in the news. The Republicans probably would have preferred everything would come out at once, so they could get on with their next steps.
Supreme Court material?
Lets hope he brings McCain on prior to resigning.
If the man truly is a born-again, he's gotta have a guilt complex! I think there is hope that he'll do the right thing and not just cling to power at all cost. dlw
Fitz absolutely wiped out the Republican/FOX News talking points when discussing just how serious these indicted crimes really are. That alone, was worth the price of the ticket.
The Washington Post is reporting that Plame's career at the CIA may be derailed by the revelation of her identity. I'm not a lawyer, but does this mean she can bring a civil suit for damages against those responsible for outing her?
Fitzgerald is the unKenneth Starr.
He has not;
illegally leaked grand jury information.
smeared people caught in the investigation who are not charged with a crime.
The Bush cabal is lucky to have him as an investigator.
Fitzgerald's honesty, restraint, and obvious decency and fair-mindedness so clear during today's news conference could very well be the beginning of the end of today's radical political spin machine, which has infected politicians, journalists, other commentators, and ordinary citizens alike with the dual diseases of hatemongering and triumphalism.
I was startled to learn from Fitzgerald that there is so little legal protection for classified government information. Clearly classified information was leaked by more than one source, and Fitzgerald largely knows who those sources are.
If such classified information isn't strongly protected by the law, shouldn't it be? We should be calling for more stringent laws protecting confidential information.
And at a bear minimum, shouldn't anyone involved with leaking classified information in any way (including negligently or recklessly) be fired? It demonstrates a dangerous disregard for our national security. President Bush has a moral and practical obligation to continue to look into the matter on his own and fire everyone involved. And we the people must make sure to remind him of this obligation.
As Josh Marshall has pointed out, the indictment includes the information that the Vice President told Libby where Plame worked in the CIA. This is important for other reasons besides the fact that this conversation took place.
More important is that Cheney knew in advance that Libby was interested in this information, and that Cheney was helping Libby to obtain it.
Wouldn't alarm bells go off if your Chief of Staff wanted to know this information, and maybe ask what he intended to do with it?
This seems more important than the mere fact that Cheney knew who Wilson's wife was when he lied about the fact on "Meet the Press". He actively participated in a scheme to obtain the information and get it to Libby.
I haven't researched the issue, but it seems that it would be possible to bring such a suit under some kind of tortious interference theory. Somebody better versed in employment law would probably know the answer to this question definitively. In any event, there would be signficant difficulty relating to obtaining proof and demonstrating damages. I would be a bit surprised if such a lawsuit was pursued.
There are odd times when when I've been proud to be an American. When the people in Tianamen square chose the Statue of Liberty as their symbol, it brought tears to my eyes, for example.
Watching Fitzgerald was one of those moments. He managed to be be succinct, clear and eloquent all at once. When he fended off making claims about anybody else, where they were masked by monicker in the indictment or people who were known to be investigated, especially Rove, his refusal to comment and his clear statement of why he would not comment was masterful. It showed that there is a system, that the system can work, and that it need trash nobody on the wayside.
As others have said, he demolished all the incipient talking points, not by cleverness but by simple reason an honesty. Something I was uncomfortable about--charging with evading a crime that wasn't committed--was allayed.
It seems tawdry to think about political implications at this point.
Fitzgerald was extremely impressive. As others here have said, he's the kind of person that restores faith in what this country is supposed to be about.
What's really sad, though, is that it's so obvious he doesn't fit in with Washington.
What if we actually had politicians that were as stand-up as this prosecutor? People that were interested in doing the right thing, instead of furthering their own personal interests, instead of just being bent on acquiring money and power.
Oh, what a world...
Oddly enough (for me), the words that come to mind are:
Well done, thou good and faithful servant.
I had the same thought listening to Mr. Fitz. He's a reminder of what integrity looks like. He also knew what he was talking about. Imagine, someone competent! What a great treat. Long overdue!
My compliments to Mr. Fitz for keeping his head when so many others have been auctioned off to the devil
Washington from time to time becomes infested with cockroaches, and Fitzgerald has come in and spread the roach killer around. He has done the nation a great service, and I am grateful to him, even if Rove slithers away.
i was impressed by fitzgerald's dignity, his seriousness and his commitment to honor the letter of the law, as were the rest of you. he is taking, though, a very narrow view of his authority. he was appointed to lead an investigation into whether a criminal act was committed precedent to the publication of valerie plame's name by novak. the libby indictment makes it clear that he has reached certain conclusions as to that act. i don't believe he would be exceeding his authority in clarifying why the disclosure to novak is not a basis for an indictment. additionally, the indictment names certain officials by name (cheney and fleisher, for instance) and others by position (the undersecretary and the mysterious official a). is there a distinction we can draw between the positions of the named and unnamed officials as to either their actions or their continued status as persons of interest to the grand jury. i guess my biggest gripe is that i'm still going to wake up every morning fevered to know the latest tidbit of leaked information - though not leaked from the office of the special counsel!
I wanted to stand up and clap. Man, he was awesome.
We need people like THAT in government.
It seemed like Fitz is/was strongly considering the esionage statutes. He talked about a higher burden of proof. He also talked about using those statutes for specific types of cases. He also talked about Justice being served through whatever statutes were available...
Taken as a whole, I interpreted this as...
Fitz could have (and still could) indict Scooter under the espionage statutes. It would be more difficult, but some of the information in the indictment (which does not necessarily represent everything that Fitz has) seems to indicate that he's got the goods to do so. But Fitz found other statutes strong enough to assert severe punishment for the "reckless use of classified information".
Perhaps since Fitz found a alternative remedy that served justice, he can protect the espionage statutes to be used for prosecuting spies.
I wonder how many nights sleep Fitz lost over issues like this.
Fitz pondered over what must have been in the mind of Libby. I think if Fitz firmly believed that Libby knew what the collateral damage would be (Brewster Jennings and the whole network being outed), Libby would be charged under the espionage act. I suspect that Fitz believes that Libby was being shortsighted - only considering the damage done to Wilson / Plame.
Just my musings. Then again, maybe this was just the beginning.
The contrast between Fitzgerald and Starr is beyond belief! I always thought Starr was somewhat of a clown, but now I know that he also had no respect for the law, or the job that was entrusted to him.
Fitzgerald's press conference should silence anyone who wants to say that these charges are "mealy mouthed cop-outs" (although it won't stop Hannity or his ilk), or that he was just trying to justify keeping the grand jury going for 23 months.
I frankly don't know why Rove got off (if indeed in the long run he has) but I truly trust Fitzgerald to make that decision. He is obviously a very capable man with exquisite knowledge of, and respect for the law.
Mr. Fitz reminded me of another time in American history. Perhaps it was his Gary Cooper-ish presence. A bit shy, but sure of his values and love for the letter of the law, and love for his country of laws. The one phrase that does NOT come to mind is "overzealous prosecutor." Unless zealous devotion to the law is now to be derided.
Purple - Are you kidding? The religious right would crucify him! He would never be an activist judge, which is what they actually want!
I think at the core of his dignity was his discipline. Several times Fitzgerald used the phrase "the four corners of the indictment" to clearly delineate what he could say and what he shouldn't say. I like that phrase and I don't think it shows narrow-mindedness. It shows propriety.
--Dan
The other thing to keep in mind is that he not only kept his legal crew from leaking, he also kept the Grand jury -- a group of ordinary citizens, who no doubt were pressured to do so. I am certain that his absolute integrity and leadership are what made that happen. Only by showing the jurists themselves a great deal of respect could he have achieved such discipline and honor. I think we can all agree that he is the most inspiring guy we've heard in a long, long time!
Thank you to Patrick Fizgerald and team!
Someone here, or maybe another blog, asked who was the kind of hero to use as an example to children. Patrick Fitzgerald is an answer to that question.
He made it very clear that his job was not to satisfy anybody's curiosity. It was to determine whether laws were broken and whether to bring indictments. Preumably the names he named are people who would be expected to be witnesses in a trial, which would be public, and are people he is not charging with any crime.\
I found his restraint refreshing, and a source of hope for the future. He also demonstrated that the DOJ can perfectly well do its job under current law, even in sensitive cases.
I agree, but that won't stop them. Truth, integrity, and respect are all alien to them and so they don't know how to act when confronted by them. They'll just squeal the usual.
Seeing Fitzgerald reaffirms that good people doing the right think can make such a big difference. I felt so proud and lucky to be an American… It really is a great nation, and we all have to keep fighting to keep it so and make it better.
Two between-the-lines take-aways from the news conference:
This is just the beginning. Due to obstruction, Fitzgerald doesn't have all the facts yet for the underlying offense.
This indictment had to come out now, because some of the charges included lying to 'this Grand Jury'. They personally wanted to get some justice for being lied to. Since the Grand Jury was expiring, this was their last opportunity. Additionally, future Grand Juries don't need to be investigative, Fitz can go into any sitting Grand Jury and present relatively simple evidence of future crimes, probably just the indictment.
A lawyer just discussed that on CNN saying that a person going before a grand jury can go back (within a certain time limit) and correct his/her statements to avoid a perjury charge. Remember Rove went 4 times and as recently as this week, his lawyers were consulting with Fitzgerald.
Rove outmaneuvered Fitzgerald in the end, is my guess.
Yes. Now there's a public figure of whom one can be proud.
I wonder how much of Fitzgerald's steadiness was necessary today precisely because he will go on and see this to the finish and because he may suspect that the Administration will do everything it can to push him out of the way. Steve Clemons suggested that Fleitz, from Bolton's office, may be a focus of further investigation. And to counter Fitzgerald, there is the maneuver which has brought Mark Carollo into Rove's defense team...
"You can throw sand in the umpire's eyes, but it ain't over till it's over," sang the Fat Lady...
Well, actually the baseball analogy was the only part I had trouble with. I am so sick of baseball analogies! And they don't really help to understand the issue!
I forgive him though, because the guy is obviously so darn smart that he was probably grasping for a vernacular way to explain this. He did just fine in all of his explanations, as far as I'm concerned. I even got the one thing (in the press conference afterward) that I was burning to know the answer to:
If Scooter had told the truth, and Valerie Wilson's cover was blown, as Fitzgerald said it was, and our national security was damaged, then would Scooter not be charged with anything?
His answer actually made sense: In order to successfully investigate a crime it is necessary to have the truth. Scooter took away the truth with his responses, and so he is charged with that. Had he told the truth, he might have been charged, but since the truth is still unknown, it is impossible to say.
Weird, bizarre, and kinda unsatisfying, but I actually get it! I wonder how many Republicans will understand that?
Oh, please! I was really enjoying this thread until you made me want to vomit! McCain prostituted himself to Bush in the last election, and Condi is an oil whore - we don't need any more oil barons in the White House!
OK, realistically firing is not gonna happen, but their security clearances should be revoked, NO?
Yep. I agree "gravitas in government" last time I saw it? Richard Clarke's testifying.
I wish more people would have a chance to see the press conference and compare it to a Bush press conference.
He took questions, follow ups, had some humor, told them what he could say and what he couldn't. He was articulate and strong.
It was a joy to watch (and not just because of the subject matter)
Now compare your feelings of pride to the yahoos who get all prideful when we up and kill people! "YEE HAW! Turn the middle east into a glass parking lot!" Then they sing along with Clint Black's stupid lyric from Iraq and I Roll
CHORUS I RAQ, I RACK'EM UP AND I ROLL I'M BACK AND I'M A HIGH TECH GI JOE I PRAY FOR PEACE, PREPARE FOR WAR AND I NEVER WILL FORGET THERE'S NO PRICE TOO HIGH FOR FREEDOM SO BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU TREAD
THIS TERROR ISN'T MAN TO MAN THEY CAN BE NO MORE THAN COWARDS IF THEY WON'T SHOW US THEIR WEAPONS WE MIGHT HAVE TO SHOW THEM OURS
IT MIGHT BE A SMART BOMB THEY FIND STUPID PEOPLE TOO AND IF YOU STAND WITH THE LIKES OF SADDAM ONE JUST MIIGHT FIND YOU
What you are talking about is justice and fighting to speak the truth. They cheer about the power of the biggest bully on the block and how our weapons will crush theirs. The lament of the small penised man. (No offence to real men with small penises)
The majesty of the law and also the stone stupidity of many reporters: after Fitzgerald made clear that he would not discuss anyone who was not indicted, reporters asked repeatedly about people who were not indicted.
I concur. McCain has swallowed so much shit from the White House he's turning brown.
He moves and comments against the White House are mostly for show nowadays. He got smeared by Rove and just kept taking it. They won't pay off his debt, they will cut and run and protect themselves and he is not and never will be one of them.
Maybe he is better than a lot of Republicans, but frankly it's not enough.
And Condi? Incompetence cubed. NSA= missed 9/11, in charge of Iraq for a while? Screwed that up. Thinks Bush is her husba... 'nuf said.
Yeah, that's what I though too. A Justice Fitzgerald would bring dignity to the court. What a magnificent bastard!
As so many posts here have stated, Fitzgerald's integrity was truly inspiring. His intelligence, competence and moral compass are a psychic salve--finally, someone in Washington you can trust. How sad (but redeeming) for our country that he must be a prosecutor indicting the highest officials in the land.
He's proceeding cautiously, methodically. He very clearly, in his laconic way, has indicated Libby's indictments are only the beginning. He is building his case with the grand jury, revealing only what he must to set out "the four corners" of his investigation, by so doing giving his next targets warning that indeed they are next.
It is a brilliant strategy: the iron-clad secrecy has got Washington riveted and he has shown everyone the stuff he is made of. He's the real thing.
I am quite sure KR is not having a fabulous weekend, after watching his press conference. He must be spinning at warp speed by now. And neither is anyone in the WH with half a brain--oh, and Bush, too.
I less impressed than others, I suppose.
Personally, given his wide range of experience, I would have expected Fitzgerald to know what he could and could not discuss with the press --- for instance, whether he could identify by name certain public officials mentioned by title in the indictment.
And at best Fitzgerald appear to be working too hard to avoid the charge of partisanship. Why not provide the names of the various officials involved in the case? He didn't refer to Russert, Cooper, and Miller as "Reporters A, B, and C" --- but he gave wide berth to political appointees.
Purple and others - Right man for the wrong job. Doubt he has much expertise in constitutional law.
Now as to Attorney General or head of FBI that better fits what I saw today.
I thought the baseball image was very well chosen. He was talking about
WHY the pitcher threw the ball and hit the batter's head. Was it on purpose or just a bad pitch? He was, therefore, talking about the motivation involved behind the leak and that could touch a whole lot of people in The White House. And I think the image can very well be having a sobering effect there. They have to be asking themselves, "What will really happen when the dust clears?" Karl Rove was back before the Grand Jury four times, not to talk baseball.
Michael, I guess where the baseball thing fell apart for me is that this pitcher (Libby) is taken out of the game, regardless of why he did it, but the batterwho got hit in the face (Plame, or all current and future CIA agents) got hit by more than one batter (more than one source), and those other sources, who maybe went back to re-testify so they wouldn't get charged with perjury (Turdblossom) are still entrusted with the ball (our official secrets).
Do I win the prize for the longest sentence ever? My point is that when you try to simplify something with an analogy you make it too simple, and could we not all have understood the explanation in plain English?
The question, however is still out there. If you can't punish someone for giving out classified information to reporters, (or anyone else) because they
a) lied about doing it (Scooter), or b) told the truth (Rove, on his 4th visit to the gj),
then how does our system of laws protect us from those who would squander the trust they are given when they have security clearance?
This is for me, the biggest question remaining.
Good points! I am glad, however, that he did try so hard to be even-handed just to show how a real Special Prosecutor is supposed to act. I hope Starr was watching, and I hope he has the grace to be mortified and ashamed.
I wonder how he would have answered the questions, "Is there anything that you would do a different way? Did you make any mistakes?" Somehow I think he would have actually answered the questions. What a concept!
Sorry, I got carried away with my baseball theme. I should read:
got hit by more than one PITCHER(more than one source), and those other sources, who maybe went back to re-testify so they wouldn't get charged with perjury (Turdblossom) are still entrusted with the ball (our official secrets).
Anyway, you get my meaning!!! Thanks!
irishkg, I disagree...
Enough folks on that bench already up to their ears in constitutional law expertise. We really could use someone that has a refreshingly candid, straight forward approach seemingly devoid of Scalia-esque doctrine.
A guy like Fitz would be perfect for cases like Hamdi.
Unfortunately, I doubt that there's a President of either flavor that would take a chance on him...his "take no prisoners as long as it's legal" approach would cut both ways.
Fitzgerald's multiple references to his home and job in Chicago perfectly underscored the comparison that sprung to my mind.
In the movie, Patrick Fitzgerald would be played by Sean Connery in a reprise of his Oscar-winning performance in The Untouchables:
"You wanna get Rove? Here's how you get him. He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Rove!"
For me, the image of trying to find out WHY the pitch was thrown, even asking the players in the dugout if there was a motive, is a cryptic way for Fitzgerald to suggest, there may well be more people in The White House and elsewhere involved than Libby. He won't say there are unless they are indicted, but it leaves the possibility open. He no doubt knows, at this stage, whether there are or not, but if there are others, it is likely to be quite complex and the dust has not yet settled.
He did say it is time to take a deep breath, another way of saying, "It isn't over!"
You are right, CVille, analogies have their limits. It has been said, "Allanalogieslimp, but some analogieslimp more than others."
northstardom - let me try a couple of arguments to change your mind.
1. I see Fitzgerald as proactive, ready to go on offense at all times. Supreme Court is much more passive. The "active" part on the SC is pure abstract thinking and I just don't see him enjoying that.
2. Agree with "straight forward approach seemingly devoid of Scalia-esque doctrine" but by that description he would make a better judge in court systems below Supreme Court where they deal in law and facts.
3. The best description of what it takes to be a justice I got recently from tv and radio interviews with Stephen Breyer (part of promoting his new book). He spoke about what they do in layman language. Very informative. Based on Breyer's words cannot see Fitzgerald as liking that kind or work nor having spent much time to date thinking like that.
All in all easy to admire a prosecutor with a take no prisoners attitude, keen mind (facts and strategy), great presence and absolute ethical and moral backbone. He won a nation today.
CVille - the baseball analogy was the only part I had trouble with. I am so sick of baseball analogies!
Let me try to explain because I found it a great means to understand and because you have taken time to enlighten me in the past.
Baseball - the pitcher throws the ball to the plate and hits the batter in the head. Leak - A government official outs a CIA officer. In each situation a bad thing happened, the question in each situation is what was the intent.
Baseball - The most malicious was that the pitcher reared back, aimed the ball at the head and hit the guy's head. The other end of the scale is the pure accident. The ball just slipped out of the pitcher's hand or something and the ball hit the batter's head. A variation is the pitcher wanted to pitch close to the head, called chin music, missed being close to the head and hit the head. Another variation is that the pitcher meant to hit the batter lower on his body (e.g. back) but missed and got it too high and hit the head.
The umpire like Fitzgerald has to decide the why of what happened. The umpire has to surmise what was in the pitcher's head because the umpire has to give the pitcher different punishments depending upon what was in the pitcher's head.
Without being able to surmise Fitzgerald is in a tougher situation than the umpire so the comparison breaks down a bit. Clearly Fitzgerald hasn't found a way to know why Libby did it, yet.
Sorry CVille and others- I replied w/ my baseball explanation before I read read down and saw the others who had already done the job.
Gentelmen: If hitting a batter on the head is a crime requiring ejection from the game, what difference does it make why the batter was hit?
Johann - tangent to Fitzgerald but still on the baseball track. A pitcher who hits a batter's head is not automatically ejected. The umpire needs to judge intent of the pitcher based on surrounding circumstances. The umpire's options are ejecting the pitcher from game or warning the pitcher and the managers. So back to Fitzgerald there is judgment involved in what to do.
The problem is that with the analogy, we (you & I & many others I'm sure) are trying to suss out hidden meanings. For example the dugout image - why not assume that was a reference to the grand jury testimony that has already happened? Surely he was trying to figure out motives for why these things happened and the reason for the lying during what had already transpired.
I just think this baseball bs is too cute, and it invites reading all kinds of meanings into things he said, when he was so straightforward about everything else, and was also warning repeatedly NOT to read anything into what he said.
The reason he used this particular analogy is that it has some very clear parallels to the case. On the simple question, did the pitcher hit the batter? (did Libby commit perjury), the answer is clear. The batter gets a free base (Libby is indicted for perjury). Did the pitcher do this on purpose (Did Libby commit obstruction of justice)? Here as well, the record is clear--he did, and has been thrown out of the game (indicted for obsruction).
To get to the espionage charge, it is not enough that he release classified information. To suspend him for some time from further competition, his intent in throwing the pitch matters. If he did it out of momentary anger with no intent to inflict permanent injury, that's one thing. If he threw at the player's head on purpose, that's another. The commissioner reviews the video tape and talks to players from both teams when making such a determination. Likewise, whether Libby was fully aware of the gravity of what he was doing affects the charge leveled. If he had happened to mention Wilson's wife's employment at the CIA without being aware of her status (a status that is still not officially acknowledged), then he did not commit an espionage crime.
Hunter over at DailyKos has a long, nearly content-free discussion of the possibility of more indictments. He makes one interesting point, though. There are two possibilites here--first, that this White House, with malice aforethought and fully aware of its actions, used this woman's covert status as a means of destroying her career and of sending a signal to anyone at the CIA who chose to cross the White House. The second possibility is that this White House treats classified material vital to US security in a cavilier, incompetent manner.
In the matter of Libby (and do read the quotations in the indictment from him), they've decided to go with incompetence. The manager denies knowledge of the pitcher's intent. The pitcher claims that he doesn't have sufficient control to place that pitch in the way he did. Narrowly, that may have been Libby's best chance to avoid prosecution on espionage charges.
This case, however, is not (I hope) about frog-marching people to jail. For Fitzgerald, that is what it is about, and as the equivalent of the baseball commissioner (he pointed out, by the way, that in this case he is the acting Attorney General of the United States) his brief is limited. If the reporters, all of whom (except, interestingly, David Corn) looked very lame yesterday can rediscover their job descriptions, then we may end up with the story of deception, manipulation and cynical disregard for the lives of American CIA agents, American soldiers and citizens of Iraq that lies at the center of this story.
While I agree with that McCain is way out of the Bush league, he did tow the party line during the elections, even if he has criticized Bush and Cheney since them. If he is VP he is very close to getting the nomination in 2008, something which I think that he would have had trouble doing otherwise. Bush needs a BIG turnaround and I doubt that Iraqi elections in January are going to provide this. As for Condi, I don't like her very much, but McCain needs to look for support outside of the "base" and she may be the ticket. People seem to like her and hardly anyone remembers her testimoney before the 9/11 Commission. On the other hand Guiliani is very popular, although not so much here in NY as in other places. I would actually think that Rove would be in favour of bringing McCain aboard, it might be one of the best thing to strengthen Bush's image, bringing aboard one of the only honest men in the Republican party. McCain would have to swallow a lot of pride and other substances, but if it brings him closer to the White House he may do it.
Comments (67)
Indeed. He was great--dignified, taking a clear legal/moral stand, carefully and clearly explaining the considerations that went into the investigation and the charges, refusing to be drawn into discussion of anything outside the indictment (frustrating for us, of course, but absolutely the right thing). I'm impressed.
October 28, 2005 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am impressed beyond words with Fitzgerald. So often politics trumps all but not with Fitzgerald. Today gives me hope for justice to be served in America.
Yes Mr. Fitzgerald I agree...making false statements and obstruction of justice are very serious crimes.
October 28, 2005 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am certainly impressed with Fitzgerald's off-the-cuff responses to the questions from the press. I thought his baseball analogy was more of a bunt than a homerun, but it did advance the baserunner.
I appreciate that Fitzgerald stressed this is an indictment, and Scooter is not guilty until proven so by his peers. He certainly strikes me as a very tough, incredibly smart individual. I wouldn't want him on my tail, that's for sure.
I'm still not exactly clear if the case will be pursued beyond Libby's indictment.
October 28, 2005 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Conversely, listening to the reporters' questions, one has to ask (to borrow from Brad DeLong), "Why Oh Why Can't We Have a Better Press Corps?"
How can you be confident that the charges are valid given that it all comes down to peoples' memories?
Yikes.
October 28, 2005 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
he's awesome... a real demonstration of what a public official could and shoud be... he's also totally destroyed the talking point about perjury being a "technicality..."
October 28, 2005 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't fully realize the extent to which I have been disappointed in my government until I heard Fitzgerald speak and felt good about how he comported himself and what he said. It's been a long time since I've felt that way. Somehow the comparison really drove home what I've been missing. There are political solutions to what has happened in government and there are criminal justice solutions. I can only hope our politicians take a cue from Fitzgerald as to how to hold up their end of the social contract.
October 28, 2005 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
He reminded of me of someone from an earlier time. Although Fitzgerald didn't get Libby on leaking the identity of Valerie Plame, he did get Libby. Just like Al Capone wasn't convicted of racketeering but of tax evasion, Elliot Ness got his man too. I have a feeling he is somewhere looking in on these proceedings and smiling...
October 28, 2005 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
My wild prediction-Cheney eventually resigns not necessarily b/c of an indictment and who does Bush bring on board to save his presidency...John McCain. A McCain-Condi ticket in 2008 would be just around the corner.
October 28, 2005 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The subtext Fitz's demeanor and MO project is that doing the right thing and doing the smart thing come down to doing the same thing. He's refusing to overshoot the mark. Patience. If the case is there for other indictments that will come in due course.
Insofar as the political fallout is concerned, I believe that if there are indictments trickling out later on that hurts the Republicans by keeping the story in the news. The Republicans probably would have preferred everything would come out at once, so they could get on with their next steps.
October 28, 2005 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Supreme Court material?
October 28, 2005 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lets hope he brings McCain on prior to resigning.
If the man truly is a born-again, he's gotta have a guilt complex! I think there is hope that he'll do the right thing and not just cling to power at all cost.
dlw
October 28, 2005 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fitz absolutely wiped out the Republican/FOX News talking points when discussing just how serious these indicted crimes really are. That alone, was worth the price of the ticket.
October 28, 2005 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Washington Post is reporting that Plame's career at the CIA may be derailed by the revelation of her identity. I'm not a lawyer, but does this mean she can bring a civil suit for damages against those responsible for outing her?
October 28, 2005 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fitzgerald is the unKenneth Starr.
He has not;
illegally leaked grand jury information.
smeared people caught in the investigation who are not charged with a crime.
The Bush cabal is lucky to have him as an investigator.
October 28, 2005 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fitzgerald's honesty, restraint, and obvious decency and fair-mindedness so clear during today's news conference could very well be the beginning of the end of today's radical political spin machine, which has infected politicians, journalists, other commentators, and ordinary citizens alike with the dual diseases of hatemongering and triumphalism.
October 28, 2005 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was startled to learn from Fitzgerald that there is so little legal protection for classified government information. Clearly classified information was leaked by more than one source, and Fitzgerald largely knows who those sources are.
October 28, 2005 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Josh Marshall has pointed out, the indictment includes the information that the Vice President told Libby where Plame worked in the CIA. This is important for other reasons besides the fact that this conversation took place.
More important is that Cheney knew in advance that Libby was interested in this information, and that Cheney was helping Libby to obtain it.
Wouldn't alarm bells go off if your Chief of Staff wanted to know this information, and maybe ask what he intended to do with it?
This seems more important than the mere fact that Cheney knew who Wilson's wife was when he lied about the fact on "Meet the Press". He actively participated in a scheme to obtain the information and get it to Libby.
October 28, 2005 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't researched the issue, but it seems that it would be possible to bring such a suit under some kind of tortious interference theory. Somebody better versed in employment law would probably know the answer to this question definitively. In any event, there would be signficant difficulty relating to obtaining proof and demonstrating damages. I would be a bit surprised if such a lawsuit was pursued.
October 28, 2005 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are odd times when when I've been proud to be an American. When the people in Tianamen square chose the Statue of Liberty as their symbol, it brought tears to my eyes, for example.
Watching Fitzgerald was one of those moments. He managed to be be succinct, clear and eloquent all at once. When he fended off making claims about anybody else, where they were masked by monicker in the indictment or people who were known to be investigated, especially Rove, his refusal to comment and his clear statement of why he would not comment was masterful. It showed that there is a system, that the system can work, and that it need trash nobody on the wayside.
As others have said, he demolished all the incipient talking points, not by cleverness but by simple reason an honesty. Something I was uncomfortable about--charging with evading a crime that wasn't committed--was allayed.
It seems tawdry to think about political implications at this point.
October 28, 2005 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fitzgerald was extremely impressive. As others here have said, he's the kind of person that restores faith in what this country is supposed to be about.
What's really sad, though, is that it's so obvious he doesn't fit in with Washington.
What if we actually had politicians that were as stand-up as this prosecutor? People that were interested in doing the right thing, instead of furthering their own personal interests, instead of just being bent on acquiring money and power.
Oh, what a world...
October 28, 2005 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oddly enough (for me), the words that come to mind are:
Well done, thou good and faithful servant.
October 28, 2005 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
My compliments to Mr. Fitz for keeping his head when so many others have been auctioned off to the devil
October 28, 2005 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Washington from time to time becomes infested with cockroaches, and Fitzgerald has come in and spread the roach killer around. He has done the nation a great service, and I am grateful to him, even if Rove slithers away.
October 28, 2005 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
i was impressed by fitzgerald's dignity, his seriousness and his commitment to honor the letter of the law, as were the rest of you. he is taking, though, a very narrow view of his authority. he was appointed to lead an investigation into whether a criminal act was committed precedent to the publication of valerie plame's name by novak. the libby indictment makes it clear that he has reached certain conclusions as to that act. i don't believe he would be exceeding his authority in clarifying why the disclosure to novak is not a basis for an indictment. additionally, the indictment names certain officials by name (cheney and fleisher, for instance) and others by position (the undersecretary and the mysterious official a). is there a distinction we can draw between the positions of the named and unnamed officials as to either their actions or their continued status as persons of interest to the grand jury. i guess my biggest gripe is that i'm still going to wake up every morning fevered to know the latest tidbit of leaked information - though not leaked from the office of the special counsel!
October 28, 2005 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wanted to stand up and clap. Man, he was awesome.
We need people like THAT in government.
October 28, 2005 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seemed like Fitz is/was strongly considering the esionage statutes. He talked about a higher burden of proof. He also talked about using those statutes for specific types of cases. He also talked about Justice being served through whatever statutes were available...
Taken as a whole, I interpreted this as...
Fitz could have (and still could) indict Scooter under the espionage statutes. It would be more difficult, but some of the information in the indictment (which does not necessarily represent everything that Fitz has) seems to indicate that he's got the goods to do so. But Fitz found other statutes strong enough to assert severe punishment for the "reckless use of classified information".
Perhaps since Fitz found a alternative remedy that served justice, he can protect the espionage statutes to be used for prosecuting spies.
I wonder how many nights sleep Fitz lost over issues like this.
Fitz pondered over what must have been in the mind of Libby. I think if Fitz firmly believed that Libby knew what the collateral damage would be (Brewster Jennings and the whole network being outed), Libby would be charged under the espionage act. I suspect that Fitz believes that Libby was being shortsighted - only considering the damage done to Wilson / Plame.
Just my musings. Then again, maybe this was just the beginning.
October 28, 2005 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
The contrast between Fitzgerald and Starr is beyond belief! I always thought Starr was somewhat of a clown, but now I know that he also had no respect for the law, or the job that was entrusted to him.
Fitzgerald's press conference should silence anyone who wants to say that these charges are "mealy mouthed cop-outs" (although it won't stop Hannity or his ilk), or that he was just trying to justify keeping the grand jury going for 23 months.
I frankly don't know why Rove got off (if indeed in the long run he has) but I truly trust Fitzgerald to make that decision. He is obviously a very capable man with exquisite knowledge of, and respect for the law.
October 28, 2005 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Fitz reminded me of another time in American history. Perhaps it was his Gary Cooper-ish presence. A bit shy, but sure of his values and love for the letter of the law, and love for his country of laws. The one phrase that does NOT come to mind is "overzealous prosecutor." Unless zealous devotion to the law is now to be derided.
October 28, 2005 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Purple - Are you kidding? The religious right would crucify him! He would never be an activist judge, which is what they actually want!
October 28, 2005 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think at the core of his dignity was his discipline. Several times Fitzgerald used the phrase "the four corners of the indictment" to clearly delineate what he could say and what he shouldn't say. I like that phrase and I don't think it shows narrow-mindedness. It shows propriety.
--Dan
October 28, 2005 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
The other thing to keep in mind is that he not only kept his legal crew from leaking, he also kept the Grand jury -- a group of ordinary citizens, who no doubt were pressured to do so. I am certain that his absolute integrity and leadership are what made that happen. Only by showing the jurists themselves a great deal of respect could he have achieved such discipline and honor. I think we can all agree that he is the most inspiring guy we've heard in a long, long time!
October 28, 2005 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you to Patrick Fizgerald and team!
Someone here, or maybe another blog, asked who was the kind of hero to use as an example to children. Patrick Fitzgerald is an answer to that question.
October 28, 2005 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
He made it very clear that his job was not to satisfy anybody's curiosity. It was to determine whether laws were broken and whether to bring indictments. Preumably the names he named are people who would be expected to be witnesses in a trial, which would be public, and are people he is not charging with any crime.\
I found his restraint refreshing, and a source of hope for the future. He also demonstrated that the DOJ can perfectly well do its job under current law, even in sensitive cases.
October 28, 2005 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, but that won't stop them. Truth, integrity, and respect are all alien to them and so they don't know how to act when confronted by them. They'll just squeal the usual.
October 28, 2005 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
October 28, 2005 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two between-the-lines take-aways from the news conference:
October 28, 2005 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
A lawyer just discussed that on CNN saying that a person going before a grand jury can go back (within a certain time limit) and correct his/her statements to avoid a perjury charge. Remember Rove went 4 times and as recently as this week, his lawyers were consulting with Fitzgerald.
Rove outmaneuvered Fitzgerald in the end, is my guess.
October 28, 2005 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Now there's a public figure of whom one can be proud.
I wonder how much of Fitzgerald's steadiness was necessary today precisely because he will go on and see this to the finish and because he may suspect that the Administration will do everything it can to push him out of the way. Steve Clemons suggested that Fleitz, from Bolton's office, may be a focus of further investigation. And to counter Fitzgerald, there is the maneuver which has brought Mark Carollo into Rove's defense team...
"You can throw sand in the umpire's eyes, but it ain't over till it's over," sang the Fat Lady...
October 28, 2005 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, actually the baseball analogy was the only part I had trouble with. I am so sick of baseball analogies! And they don't really help to understand the issue!
I forgive him though, because the guy is obviously so darn smart that he was probably grasping for a vernacular way to explain this. He did just fine in all of his explanations, as far as I'm concerned. I even got the one thing (in the press conference afterward) that I was burning to know the answer to:
If Scooter had told the truth, and Valerie Wilson's cover was blown, as Fitzgerald said it was, and our national security was damaged, then would Scooter not be charged with anything?
His answer actually made sense: In order to successfully investigate a crime it is necessary to have the truth. Scooter took away the truth with his responses, and so he is charged with that. Had he told the truth, he might have been charged, but since the truth is still unknown, it is impossible to say.
Weird, bizarre, and kinda unsatisfying, but I actually get it! I wonder how many Republicans will understand that?
October 28, 2005 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, please! I was really enjoying this thread until you made me want to vomit! McCain prostituted himself to Bush in the last election, and Condi is an oil whore - we don't need any more oil barons in the White House!
October 28, 2005 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK, realistically firing is not gonna happen, but their security clearances should be revoked, NO?
October 28, 2005 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. I agree "gravitas in government" last time I saw it? Richard Clarke's testifying.
I wish more people would have a chance to see the press conference and compare it to a Bush press conference.
He took questions, follow ups, had some humor, told them what he could say and what he couldn't. He was articulate and strong.
It was a joy to watch (and not just because of the subject matter)
October 28, 2005 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now compare your feelings of pride to the yahoos who get all prideful when we up and kill people! "YEE HAW! Turn the middle east into a glass parking lot!" Then they sing along with Clint Black's stupid lyric from Iraq and I Roll
CHORUS
I RAQ, I RACK'EM UP AND I ROLL
I'M BACK AND I'M A HIGH TECH GI JOE
I PRAY FOR PEACE, PREPARE FOR WAR
AND I NEVER WILL FORGET
THERE'S NO PRICE TOO HIGH FOR FREEDOM
SO BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU TREAD
THIS TERROR ISN'T MAN TO MAN
THEY CAN BE NO MORE THAN COWARDS
IF THEY WON'T SHOW US THEIR WEAPONS
WE MIGHT HAVE TO SHOW THEM OURS
IT MIGHT BE A SMART BOMB
THEY FIND STUPID PEOPLE TOO
AND IF YOU STAND WITH THE LIKES OF SADDAM
ONE JUST MIIGHT FIND YOU
What you are talking about is justice and fighting to speak the truth. They cheer about the power of the biggest bully on the block and how our weapons will crush theirs. The lament of the small penised man. (No offence to real men with small penises)
October 28, 2005 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
The majesty of the law and also the stone stupidity of many reporters: after Fitzgerald made clear that he would not discuss anyone who was not indicted, reporters asked repeatedly about people who were not indicted.
October 28, 2005 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I concur. McCain has swallowed so much shit from the White House he's turning brown.
He moves and comments against the White House are mostly for show nowadays. He got smeared by Rove and just kept taking it. They won't pay off his debt, they will cut and run and protect themselves and he is not and never will be one of them.
Maybe he is better than a lot of Republicans, but frankly it's not enough.
And Condi? Incompetence cubed. NSA= missed 9/11, in charge of Iraq for a while? Screwed that up. Thinks Bush is her husba... 'nuf said.
October 28, 2005 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that's what I though too. A Justice Fitzgerald would bring dignity to the court. What a magnificent bastard!
October 28, 2005 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
As so many posts here have stated, Fitzgerald's integrity was truly inspiring. His intelligence, competence and moral compass are a psychic salve--finally, someone in Washington you can trust. How sad (but redeeming) for our country that he must be a prosecutor indicting the highest officials in the land.
He's proceeding cautiously, methodically. He very clearly, in his laconic way, has indicated Libby's indictments are only the beginning. He is building his case with the grand jury, revealing only what he must to set out "the four corners" of his investigation, by so doing giving his next targets warning that indeed they are next.
It is a brilliant strategy: the iron-clad secrecy has got Washington riveted and he has shown everyone the stuff he is made of. He's the real thing.
I am quite sure KR is not having a fabulous weekend, after watching his press conference. He must be spinning at warp speed by now. And neither is anyone in the WH with half a brain--oh, and Bush, too.
October 28, 2005 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I less impressed than others, I suppose.
Personally, given his wide range of experience, I would have expected Fitzgerald to know what he could and could not discuss with the press --- for instance, whether he could identify by name certain public officials mentioned by title in the indictment.
And at best Fitzgerald appear to be working too hard to avoid the charge of partisanship. Why not provide the names of the various officials involved in the case? He didn't refer to Russert, Cooper, and Miller as "Reporters A, B, and C" --- but he gave wide berth to political appointees.
October 28, 2005 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Purple and others - Right man for the wrong job. Doubt he has much expertise in constitutional law.
Now as to Attorney General or head of FBI that better fits what I saw today.
October 28, 2005 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought the baseball image was very well chosen. He was talking about
WHY the pitcher threw the ball and hit the batter's head. Was it on purpose or just a bad pitch? He was, therefore, talking about the motivation involved behind the leak and that could touch a whole lot of people in The White House. And I think the image can very well be having a sobering effect there. They have to be asking themselves, "What will really happen when the dust clears?" Karl Rove was back before the Grand Jury four times, not to talk baseball.October 28, 2005 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do I win the prize for the longest sentence ever? My point is that when you try to simplify something with an analogy you make it too simple, and could we not all have understood the explanation in plain English?
The question, however is still out there. If you can't punish someone for giving out classified information to reporters, (or anyone else) because they
a) lied about doing it (Scooter), or
b) told the truth (Rove, on his 4th visit to the gj),
then how does our system of laws protect us from those who would squander the trust they are given when they have security clearance?
This is for me, the biggest question remaining.
October 28, 2005 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good points! I am glad, however, that he did try so hard to be even-handed just to show how a real Special Prosecutor is supposed to act. I hope Starr was watching, and I hope he has the grace to be mortified and ashamed.
October 28, 2005 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, it does, and yes, she will.
October 28, 2005 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how he would have answered the questions, "Is there anything that you would do a different way? Did you make any mistakes?" Somehow I think he would have actually answered the questions. What a concept!
October 28, 2005 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I got carried away with my baseball theme. I should read:
got hit by more than one PITCHER(more than one source), and those other sources, who maybe went back to re-testify so they wouldn't get charged with perjury (Turdblossom) are still entrusted with the ball (our official secrets).
Anyway, you get my meaning!!! Thanks!
October 28, 2005 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
irishkg, I disagree...
Enough folks on that bench already up to their ears in constitutional law expertise. We really could use someone that has a refreshingly candid, straight forward approach seemingly devoid of Scalia-esque doctrine.
A guy like Fitz would be perfect for cases like Hamdi.
Unfortunately, I doubt that there's a President of either flavor that would take a chance on him...his "take no prisoners as long as it's legal" approach would cut both ways.
October 28, 2005 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fitzgerald's multiple references to his home and job in Chicago perfectly underscored the comparison that sprung to my mind.
In the movie, Patrick Fitzgerald would be played by Sean Connery in a reprise of his Oscar-winning performance in The Untouchables:
"You wanna get Rove? Here's how you get him. He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way! And that's how you get Rove!"
October 28, 2005 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
For me, the image of trying to find out WHY the pitch was thrown, even asking the players in the dugout if there was a motive, is a cryptic way for Fitzgerald to suggest, there may well be more people in The White House and elsewhere involved than Libby. He won't say there are unless they are indicted, but it leaves the possibility open. He no doubt knows, at this stage, whether there are or not, but if there are others, it is likely to be quite complex and the dust has not yet settled.
He did say it is time to take a deep breath, another way of saying, "It isn't over!"
You are right, CVille, analogies have their limits. It has been said, "All analogies limp, but some analogies limp more than others."
October 28, 2005 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
northstardom - let me try a couple of arguments to change your mind.
1. I see Fitzgerald as proactive, ready to go on offense at all times. Supreme Court is much more passive. The "active" part on the SC is pure abstract thinking and I just don't see him enjoying that.
2. Agree with "straight forward approach seemingly devoid of Scalia-esque doctrine" but by that description he would make a better judge in court systems below Supreme Court where they deal in law and facts.
3. The best description of what it takes to be a justice I got recently from tv and radio interviews with Stephen Breyer (part of promoting his new book). He spoke about what they do in layman language. Very informative. Based on Breyer's words cannot see Fitzgerald as liking that kind or work nor having spent much time to date thinking like that.
All in all easy to admire a prosecutor with a take no prisoners attitude, keen mind (facts and strategy), great presence and absolute ethical and moral backbone. He won a nation today.
October 28, 2005 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
CVille -
the baseball analogy was the only part I had trouble with. I am so sick of baseball analogies!
Let me try to explain because I found it a great means to understand and because you have taken time to enlighten me in the past.
Baseball - the pitcher throws the ball to the plate and hits the batter in the head.
Leak - A government official outs a CIA officer.
In each situation a bad thing happened, the question in each situation is what was the intent.
Baseball - The most malicious was that the pitcher reared back, aimed the ball at the head and hit the guy's head.
The other end of the scale is the pure accident. The ball just slipped out of the pitcher's hand or something and the ball hit the batter's head.
A variation is the pitcher wanted to pitch close to the head, called chin music, missed being close to the head and hit the head.
Another variation is that the pitcher meant to hit the batter lower on his body (e.g. back) but missed and got it too high and hit the head.
The umpire like Fitzgerald has to decide the why of what happened. The umpire has to surmise what was in the pitcher's head because the umpire has to give the pitcher different punishments depending upon what was in the pitcher's head.
Without being able to surmise Fitzgerald is in a tougher situation than the umpire so the comparison breaks down a bit. Clearly Fitzgerald hasn't found a way to know why Libby did it, yet.
October 28, 2005 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry CVille and others-
I replied w/ my baseball explanation before I read read down and saw the others who had already done the job.
October 28, 2005 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gentelmen:
If hitting a batter on the head is a crime requiring ejection from the game, what difference does it make why the batter was hit?
October 28, 2005 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
A pitcher who hits a batter's head is not automatically ejected. The umpire needs to judge intent of the pitcher based on surrounding circumstances. The umpire's options are ejecting the pitcher from game or warning the pitcher and the managers.
So back to Fitzgerald there is judgment involved in what to do.
October 28, 2005 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is that with the analogy, we (you & I & many others I'm sure) are trying to suss out hidden meanings. For example the dugout image - why not assume that was a reference to the grand jury testimony that has already happened? Surely he was trying to figure out motives for why these things happened and the reason for the lying during what had already transpired.
I just think this baseball bs is too cute, and it invites reading all kinds of meanings into things he said, when he was so straightforward about everything else, and was also warning repeatedly NOT to read anything into what he said.
October 28, 2005 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reason he used this particular analogy is that it has some very clear parallels to the case. On the simple question, did the pitcher hit the batter? (did Libby commit perjury), the answer is clear. The batter gets a free base (Libby is indicted for perjury). Did the pitcher do this on purpose (Did Libby commit obstruction of justice)? Here as well, the record is clear--he did, and has been thrown out of the game (indicted for obsruction).
To get to the espionage charge, it is not enough that he release classified information. To suspend him for some time from further competition, his intent in throwing the pitch matters. If he did it out of momentary anger with no intent to inflict permanent injury, that's one thing. If he threw at the player's head on purpose, that's another. The commissioner reviews the video tape and talks to players from both teams when making such a determination. Likewise, whether Libby was fully aware of the gravity of what he was doing affects the charge leveled. If he had happened to mention Wilson's wife's employment at the CIA without being aware of her status (a status that is still not officially acknowledged), then he did not commit an espionage crime.
Hunter over at DailyKos has a long, nearly content-free discussion of the possibility of more indictments. He makes one interesting point, though. There are two possibilites here--first, that this White House, with malice aforethought and fully aware of its actions, used this woman's covert status as a means of destroying her career and of sending a signal to anyone at the CIA who chose to cross the White House. The second possibility is that this White House treats classified material vital to US security in a cavilier, incompetent manner.
In the matter of Libby (and do read the quotations in the indictment from him), they've decided to go with incompetence. The manager denies knowledge of the pitcher's intent. The pitcher claims that he doesn't have sufficient control to place that pitch in the way he did. Narrowly, that may have been Libby's best chance to avoid prosecution on espionage charges.
This case, however, is not (I hope) about frog-marching people to jail. For Fitzgerald, that is what it is about, and as the equivalent of the baseball commissioner (he pointed out, by the way, that in this case he is the acting Attorney General of the United States) his brief is limited. If the reporters, all of whom (except, interestingly, David Corn) looked very lame yesterday can rediscover their job descriptions, then we may end up with the story of deception, manipulation and cynical disregard for the lives of American CIA agents, American soldiers and citizens of Iraq that lies at the center of this story.
October 29, 2005 1:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
While I agree with that McCain is way out of the Bush league, he did tow the party line during the elections, even if he has criticized Bush and Cheney since them. If he is VP he is very close to getting the nomination in 2008, something which I think that he would have had trouble doing otherwise. Bush needs a BIG turnaround and I doubt that Iraqi elections in January are going to provide this. As for Condi, I don't like her very much, but McCain needs to look for support outside of the "base" and she may be the ticket. People seem to like her and hardly anyone remembers her testimoney before the 9/11 Commission. On the other hand Guiliani is very popular, although not so much here in NY as in other places. I would actually think that Rove would be in favour of bringing McCain aboard, it might be one of the best thing to strengthen Bush's image, bringing aboard one of the only honest men in the Republican party. McCain would have to swallow a lot of pride and other substances, but if it brings him closer to the White House he may do it.
October 29, 2005 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two Words: Russ Feingold
October 29, 2005 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink