Sympathy with the Evangelical Right
It seems to me that of all the different factions that support the Administration, the most sincere, consistent, and principled is the evangelical right. They have every reason to be upset about the nomination of Ms. Miers, because the selection reveals the truth about the Administration -- General Rove and the others in charge do not want Roe v Wade to be overturned. They do not respect the principle behind the decision; they do not respect its reasoning; they do not want it to be applied broadly. But they are quite sure that if their Supreme Court overturned the decision then in the next election Democrats would probably win. The evangelical right would prefer to overturn Roe and take their chances at the ballot box. General Rove would prefer to pretend to want to overturn Roe, but to permit his candidates to fuzz up, or dissemble, on the topic during the election cycles. The evangelicals are principled; the White House's principle is expedience. The Miers nomination is a revelation to the evangelicals. For those who see the same behavior on the budget, funding NCLB, running the Iraq war, harming the environment, and many other topics, the failure to appoint a truly distinguished person to the High Court is just another in a litany of disappointments.















The chief evengelicals: Dobson, Robertson, Lamb are supporting her. The intellectuals like Will, Buchanan, and the National Review who oppose her.
October 9, 2005 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
less eloquent, less articulate, but perhaps as pointed thanks to that, i think the movement conservatives are not going to sit still for a "closeted" evangelical nominee... no hedging... they're looking for flat-out, full-tilt boogie, in-your-face, fundamentalist, evangelical, far-right, no bullshit, conservative christianity... no one else need apply and if bush can't produce, they're gonna hit him with 25+ years of stored up frustration...
http://takeitpersonally.blogspot.com/2005/10/bushs-base-we- dont-want-closeted.html
October 9, 2005 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
General Rove would prefer to pretend to want to overturn Roe, but to permit his candidates to fuzz up, or dissemble, on the topic during the election cycles.
I tend to agree with you, Reed. I have long wondered why the newspeople don't make more vigorous attempts to pin down the president's views on overturning Roe. One tried the other day and Scottie evaded the question by saying that Bush has no litmus tests for a nominee. When the newsperson insisted that the question had nothing to do with the nominee but with the president's own view, Scottie kept calling it a litmus test and refused to answer. They want to keep the president's views on this issue fuzzy.
The exchange is here in the White House press briefing from Oct. 5, 2005.
October 9, 2005 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems to me that of all the different factions that support the Administration, the most sincere, consistent, and principled is the evangelical right.
This might be true if your only measure of consistent and principled were commitment to social goals like eliminating reproductive freedom rather than commitment to political principles that may at times conflict with those social goals.
Take their jihad against gays. It seems that no principle is higher than marginalizing, delegitimizing and persecuting gays. Support for the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would enshrine discriminatory language in the constitution, is fine. But defend the Senate's tradition of unlimited debate and all of a sudden they're perfectly willing to put on the victim's cloak and call it a war on people of faith.
They're also remarkably inconsistent about which of Jesus's teachings to emphasize in their political decisions. Jesus said virtually nothing about homosexuality but a whole lot about charity towards the poor. Notwithstanding their often generous private contributions to charity, they are usually against expanding government programs for the poor.
I'll grant them sincerity. They are certainly not approaching politics with the level of cynicism and insincerity of Republicans in general. But consistent and principled is a stretch.
October 9, 2005 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder what would happen if the evangelicals responded with a frontal assault on Bush and the Administration. Serious power politics - if you won't respect us and our right-to-life principles, we are taking a public walk.
October 9, 2005 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where I agree with you is that they choose to apply certain principles to get the ends they want. That is where I challenge their integrity. My biggest beef is the right-to-life focus on the unborn and those in death's doorway vs. the lack of concern for the poor, young and old.
October 9, 2005 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not as if the Bush administration's now obvious disinterest in overturning Roe is unusual or surprising. To the contrary, Bush has consistently refused to expend any political capital on any of the major priorities of the evangelical right. His support of the DOMA was remarkably tepid; his faith-based initiatives seem to have been essentially for-show. Nor has Bush particularly gone to bat for Christians who face political opression abroad. It's clear that when it comes to the Republican coalition, Bush is willing to go to the mat for the anti-tax faction, take big risks for the neocons, hand out corporate pork like there's no tomorrow. But when it comes to evangelicals, he's happy to feint their way to get votes and then leave them cold when it's time to actually make policy.
What Democrats need to do now is make this clear. Democratic/progressive pundits need to hammer the fact that the GOP has played social conservatives for chumps, taken their votes and ignored their agenda. Social conservatives should be made to feel stupid and naive for supporting Bush in the first place. This will either cause evangelicals to stay home on election day in 2006 and 2008 or force the GOP to tack significantly rightwards, to counteract social conservative disillusion. Either scenario could result in an electoral trainwreck for the GOP.
October 9, 2005 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
If only...
The possibilities are: 1) the born-again Miers, personal lawyer to born-again George, who has received the thumbs-up from James Dobson is a stealth moderate, or 2) she is the social conservative's wet dream with no public record that liberals and moderates can attack. Let's see. I'll take my chances with the latter possibility.
She's taking a beating from conservatives of all stripes. While the media has fixated on the heat coming from social conservatives, much of the disappointment, as well as the most brutal attacks, has come from the "intellectual" end of the party. Much of it can be summed up in a kindler-and-gentler way by listening to the way Arlen Specter talks about her, essentially telling us that she needs a crash course in constitutional law. Think about it. Is there any reason imaginable that we should be appointing someone to the Supreme Court that needs to be tutored in constitutional law? That's the fact that is (correctly) pissing off people like Krauthammer, Buchanan and Will.
The only way this nomination makes sense is if she's a for-real social conservative.
October 9, 2005 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Although I agree with your premise, I disagree with your conclusion regarding the evangelicals. I've read a few winger sites to gauge their reaction to Miers, and while there is some bitterness, the general sentiment seems to be "Give her a chance." I think people are overestimating the degree of resistance to her, based in part on wishful thinking. As soon as Dobson signed off on her, a large bloc of people were inclined to take a wait and listen approach.
Basically, I don't see Miers as the catalyst for the kind of split that fractures the left, where many activists are essentially at war with their own party. The Republicans, evangelicals included, have power to protect, and too much fighting among themselves will risk squandering that power. I think her nomination was a blunder on Bush's part, but not nearly as big a one as people are making it out to be. She'll be forgotten a few months after her confirmation (which I think is a good bet to happen), and as soon as the wingers can gin up another Terri Schiavo or some such to focus their energy on. And of course, the 2006 elections are coming, which is another distraction.
October 9, 2005 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you are correct and instead of patting themselves on the back Dems ought to be observing how they've become irrelevent to the debate. The only debate is intellectual far right vs. religious far right. The Dems aren't even in the conversation so worthless is "centrism" as a replacement for leadership or ideology. How do you get in the center between Buchanan and Dobson?
October 9, 2005 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess it is the posters of aborted fetuses that they (and their young children) proudly march with to stop abortion -- in contrast to their heartless attitude towards those unmarried mothers (and their babies once born).
It is the vindictiveness they express towards their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.
It is their utter contempt for the common good, which they call "socialism."
It is their two-faced judgements against "non-believers'" principles all the while faithfully following and sending their checks into the likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell -- both multimillionaires who do the minimum for those in need.
Sorry, I can't buy your thesis. Evangelicals all seem to have one thing in common: they are desperately afraid of what will happen after they die, and they are happy and thrilled by the weekly sermon that promises that only THEY will be rewarded after death. The environment doesn't matter. Why? It's only Earth, and only the non-believers will be stuck with it.
If they are worried and feel betrayed by Bush it is only because their view is so narrow that only guarantees make them feel secure. His lies, his incompetence, his wars, his appointments were all just fine until this Miers woman came up. If this is their only complaint about him, can you REALLY consider them principled or sincere?
Jan Knaus
October 9, 2005 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that the Bush administrations relation with the evangelical right is basically exploitive. An example would be homosexual marriage. In the run up to the 2004 election, Bush purposely created the impression he was 100% with the evangelical right on this issue, and they returned the favor by working like crazy to get him re-elected. Then just a week before the election Bush said he thought civil union would be ok. Talk about a stab in the back.
Bush's problem is that he needs the evangelical right to win elections, but their agenda, and to a considerable extent the agenda of the conservative movement as a whole, is opposed by the majority of the public. So he plays back and forth, like selling himself as a "compassionate conservative" ie more moderate than he really is, and hopes he and the rest of the concervative politicians can sneak their agenda past the public.
October 9, 2005 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
October 9, 2005 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just a reminder that they felt this way about Reagan. Reagan paid lipservice to Evangelical goals, at least their over ones, but did not follow through. Bush who is an Evangelical seemed to be ready to deliver on the promises. This must be a very bitter bill.
October 9, 2005 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
The loudest voices against Miers is not the Evangelicals but the likes of George Will, Charles Krautheimer and even Pat Buchannan. What the Miers nomination may show are the fractures within Republicanism and within the Right. The Repubicans are held together through devotion to Reagan and tax cuts, retaining power and as we have seen with Delay, money.
October 9, 2005 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was brought up in a Baptist church in Richmond, Va that sponsored African missionaries. When I was 12 years old, one of the Africans who had been ordained by one of our missionaries came to speak to our church. There was a church meeting to decide if he could ACTUALLY COME INTO OUR CHURCH! (This was the 50's) As a twelve-year-old I raised my hand and said that I had just realized that I had just recently been baptised into a "low church." -- I didn't have the flair for the language that I have now, [she said humbly]. Ultimately, the "owers that be" decided he could come in and talk about his conversion, and about the people in his village in Africa and their experiences, but only if he wore African clothes so no one in the neighborhood would think we let Negroes come into our church except as janitors.
OK. So now you know my baggage. What is weird is that I have one sister who is a missionary in Africa, a brother who is twice-born, and another sister who is as non-religious as I am. I am only close to the latter. She is the only one I can have a respectful conversation with.
So please, don't feel torched. Some of my feelings are baggage, but I have spent a lifetime trying to figure out how to do the right thing, and to be honorable. I have not found it in religion, and I must say, I really tried to. Why? Because just doing what you are told with the promises (that no human has the right to make) is so much easier. In fact, it is a no-brainer.
Jan Knaus
October 9, 2005 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're underestimating the power of the unity of the VRWC. Without the Krauthammers and Wills developing the lines of argument, the interemediaries like Rush have no source for their content. Without clear talking points from both the administration, the congress and the punditocracy, the evangelicals are going to lose their coherence.
The metaphor Peter Daou has used is a triangle. The intellectuals are an important part of the triangle. A mixed message undermines the entire enterprise.
BTW, I do think this is moot. I think Specter saying that he'd be willing to call Dobson and Rove as witnesses was a clear signal to the president that this one is not going through easily. Somebody else, somewhere I can't remember pointed out that there is very little to be said in defense of this nomination. You can't point to anything that makes her a person who'd want to pick. Saying that picking a Supreme Court justice is the president's prerogative may work for a cabinet appointment, but it just doesn't fly when picking a Supreme Court justice.
What Senator will stand up and advocate confirmation for this nominee? What will he or she say?
October 9, 2005 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only thing that speaks for her is her realtionship to Bush and perhaps that she is female in the same way that Clarence Thomas was Black.
October 9, 2005 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ed Kilgore has likened this business to a balloon payment on a mortgage. For two generations now, the Republicans have used one excuse after another for their inability to deliver on the evangelical agenda. The last excuse--the Supreme Court--was supposed to be erased by Bush.
This looks like the Republicans are sending in the keys.
In my view, they've taken an unpopular set of policies as far as they can, hiding them under names like "The Healthy Forest Initiatiave". They've campaigned using code language on abortion to avoid having the majority vote them out on that issue. They've talked up social issues, but been careful not to actually do anything about it. They invariably choose symbolic measures that cannot be implemented, or do not affect Americans. That this has failed to reduce the number of abortions here, and has caused unnecessary deaths overseas hasn't mattered, as long as they could point to those symbols.
They're out of excuses. They can't wink on this nomination. They can't say "trust us." And if they do manage to make it publicly clear that their nominee will do all she can to reverse Roe, they'll have to go public with a view that, in fact, they don't support and don't want to implement.
October 9, 2005 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was at least Thomas's life story. What are the Senators going to talk about? What are they going to say about this woman's achievements and qualifications? They pale beside O'Connor's. Thomas's did next to Marshall's, but there was an ideological difference there. A Republican can't really talk up Miers' gender or her achievements as a woman with O'Connor there in the background.
Can you see Hatch taking up the cause? Allen? Lott and Coburn are already out. Who will defend this record?
October 9, 2005 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every single person has a story. So does she. So does Bush (Lord knows he was raised by a narcisistic mother, and had drug and alcohol dependence). Does that make them qualified to be anything other than a great Oprah show personality?
Thomas got his appointment because he is a white conservative black guy. Refute that! Bush 41 had the audacity to say he was the "most qualified person in the United States for this appointment." ABSOLUTELY NO ONE BELIEVED THAT, INCLUDING THE MAN WHO SAID IT.
fortunately i still have a sense of humor, and even in all this mess i have a mental image of this hole (sic) administration slipping on a banana peel and going to rule the banana republic that they so richly deserve.
Jan Knaus
October 9, 2005 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reed,
Thanks for the reminder about compassion, and the distinction you make between the true believers and those who have exploited them so effectively. I disagree with much of what the evangelical right wing stands for, and for how they have so often gone about their business with such disrespect and judgement of others. Still, I respect the fact that they believe what they believe - and that stands in stark contrast to the Bush Administration, which appears to believe in nothing but power and profit. My choice would be for none of them to be in power, but the evangelicals do have my compassion, for what it's worth.
October 9, 2005 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only way this nomination makes sense is if she's a for-real social conservative.
Or if she's a true loyalist. This president values loyality to himself as the most highly valued trait of all. Better still if she has no actually philosophy or ideology but will vote (like Scalia seemed willing to do in 2000) to protect the man and the party regarless of law or morality.
October 9, 2005 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr Hundt, I find your comment that the evangelical right is principled quite interesting. (You say: "The evangelicals are principled; the White House's principle is expedience.") Actually many conservatives (not justevangelicals) have expressed opposition to the Miers nomination. My question is just how principled is the Democratic opposition. We have seen that Roberts was not the right candidate to oppose energetically. When the "perfect" nomination to oppose is put forth, I am sure that our Democratic legions will rise up in righteousness (after checking the political winds) and announce opposition. For our Democratic leaders do not worry about political expedience as we all know so well.
October 9, 2005 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you want to understand them better, I can recommend it and Mark Noll's "The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind" or "America's God".
dlw
October 9, 2005 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
As such, they vote based on issues they've become convinced are "a-political" and of great import for "moral values". And they are more easily taken advantage of by their leaders as Reed points out.
I think the answer is to foster changes in theology, and changes in habits of political deliberation. This sort of deliberation must be seen as among the disciplines associated with being a Christian and an integral way in which we love our neighbors.
And that's why I write what I write at my blog, <a href="http://wetzell.blogspot.com/2005/09/what-does-it-mean- to-be-anti.html">the Anti-Manicheist</a>.
dlw
October 9, 2005 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I appreciate your willingness to give me some perspective with your insights and past. Launching into a fight is an intellectual challenge, but responding to your passion requires me to really stretch. Thanks for giving me a second shot.
I like the idea of honor and respect striving to be honorable. I even wrote a blog piece about honor a while back. It seems to me that it is even more important to remember to hold honor as a standard for actions and words. ..On question of cosmic import and completely off topic, why do female UVa students wear pearls and skirts to football games?
October 9, 2005 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So people like Gary Bauer are considered intellectuals now, eh? He's ranting that it's a 'stealth' nominiation.
CNN's Sunday talking head round-up: Conservatives spar over Miers nomination.
October 9, 2005 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's some photos of some of those evil evangelicals for you.<img src="http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/10/25/national/blacks.390.jpg" border="0">Kevork Djansezian/Associated Press
Daron Patterson, right, and Verlinzia Maiden listening to pleas to vote at Mount Airy Church of God in Christ in Philadelphia. from:
NYT 10/25
Gore and Kerry Unite in Search for Black Votes
By JIM DWYER and JODI WILGOREN
As polls suggest gains for President Bush among black voters, Democrats are trying to solidify their bloc.
October 9, 2005 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops-photo cited above showed in preview but didn't post, so
HERE THE'S PHOTO, MAKE IT #1 of nasty evangelicals above caption and article citation.
PHOTO #2 of nasty evangelicals.
Caption: Hiroko Masuike for The New York Times
Jeanmarie Salazar, right, belongs to Iglesia Evangelica Pentecostal, a Bronx church. She said she voted for President Bush, though she was troubled by his economic policies.
from
The Political Conversion of New York's Evangelicals By Andrea Elliot November 14, 2004
PHOTO #3 of nasty evangelicals
Caption: Members of the Lakewood Church, the nation's largest, Saturday night at the first service in their new home.
from
A Church That Packs Them In, 16,000 at a Time
John Leland in Houston, July 18, 2005.
October 9, 2005 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is preposterous. For the last 10 months, I have heard Land and Parshall lie their butts off in support of Bush. Perhaps you meant "pro-blastocyte" instead of "principled."
October 9, 2005 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
The environment doesn't matter. Why? It's only Earth, and only the non-believers will be stuck with it.
A ridiculous, incredibly prejudiced generalization.
Published on 8 Feb 2005 by Washington Post.
The Greening of Evangelicals
by Blaine Harden
October 9, 2005 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
on this issue, the Dems are doomed again. Seems like Thomas Franks visit here was all for naught; some just wanna be culture warriors to the death...some of the cluelessness on this thread is astounding to me, especially after the last election...you cannot get what's going on in evangelism by reading a few scare stories put out on liberal blogs on the most radical of them. (And Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are old style! Billy Graham, now that's another story. Why do you think all the recent presidents call on him in their 'time of need," huh? What do you think he is? He's an evangelical!)
All that does is feed the culture wars like the right wing think tank maestros want you to do. That's what they want: us vs. them. And by pushing the generalizations, you just perpetuate the divide. You have to realized that in some polls in the past around 40% of Americans have identified themselves as born again or evangelical. And worldwide, it's growing. You can't even have a decent Dem foreign policy if you are not going to understand the appeal of evangelical christianity in all its forms. You keep hating based on generalizations, you'll simply marginalize yourself. There's a divide right now, the topic of this thread, and instead of taking advantage of it, you say "a pox on all your houses." I can see the Dems losing a big patch of Hispanics in 2008 if they took up your anti-evangelical rant.
PBS.Org-April, 2004
Poll: America's Evangelicals More and More Mainstream But Insecure
Diversity, Differences Mark Their Views on Society, Culture, Politics
Sept. 4, 2004 op-ed:
A Hidden Swing Vote: Evangelicals
by Michael Hout & Andrew M. Greeley
The idea that white evangelical voters are unshakably in the Bush camp is not born out by data:
True Believers; More Religion, but Not the Old-Time Kind
by Laurie Goodstein January 9, 2005
October 9, 2005 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
That said, I know plenty of really great UVA students. Nice people, but if you want to know why they dress like that it comes down to conformity. There is a "look" and pearls and skirts are it right now. Go figure!!!
I never hear people use the word Yankee any more. When I lived in Georgia I did. I'll bet that if people called you that they were smiling. The only negative north-south thing I notice here is when someone with a strong New York or New Jersey accent complains about people driving too slow.
Sorry, I guess this is not in the thread. Got carried away.
Jan K
October 10, 2005 6:55 AM | Reply | Permalink