Accidents Happen, Again and Again
So correct me if I'm wrong, but the pro-Rove spin regarding Matt Cooper's notes is that this matter of Joe Wilson's wife just sort of came up casually in a conversation that was focused on something else. It's not as if Rove was running around telling everyone he could find that Wilson's wife was at the CIA.
Meanwhile, the pro-Rove spin regarding Bob Novak's column is that this matter of Joe Wilson's wife just sort of came up casually in a conversation that was focused on something else. It's not as if Rove was running around telling everyone he could find that Wilson's wife was at the CIA.
There's a problem here, right? Right.
Advertisement














Comments (39)
Meanwhile...Rove dropped his keys on his desk and which hit Chris Matthews phone number and he accidently mentioned that Wilson's wife was 'fair game.' Oops!
July 16, 2005 8:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
So the fact that it was mere gossip makes it ok to engage in a National Secrutity leak...?
July 16, 2005 8:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's a problem here, right? Right.
Right, Matt. That the NYT and the WP pick up the "pro-Rove spin" and pretend that it's real "news" is a big part of the problem. I mean, how gullible do they think their readers are? They played this as though it was a real scoop.
July 16, 2005 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
The reason it took so long for this "explanation" to be leaked to the press is that Rove was caught up in a big internal debate with himself over whether to use this one or "the Devil made me do it" explanation. "The Devil made me do it" came in a close second.
July 16, 2005 8:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
The problems compound themselves.
Certainly this represents a pattern of behaviour.
Here's another problem:
ROve's most recent version of the story is that on the 8th, he hears Plame's name and covert status from Novak and merely confirms that he has heard this information as well. Hence, he is aware that reporters know Plame's identity.
On the 11th, Rove speaks with Cooper, and - in the interest of national security - 'warns' him against supporting Wilson's uranium allegations. Again, he is aware that reporters know Plame's identity.
Problem: if Rove was so concerned with national security, why didn't he inform the reporters that revealing the identity of a covert CIA agent undermined national security?
Additionally, if national security was in fact his primary concern here, why didn't he immediately call for an investigation into how this sensitive classified info was leaked?
July 16, 2005 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
goes to prove that it's not the crime, it's the coverup that's gonna git ya.
we don't know what Fitzgerald has, but the mere fact that this investigation has gone on this long is indicative that he has something on these people. Conspiracy, perjury and obstruction of justice indictments all seem likely, although the brass ring of violating the Intel Identities act is worth reaching for, in the case of Rove.
the Times piece today seeks to take some of the heat off Rove, but I think instead it actually makes things worse for him by allowing the reader (who knows his omnipresence in the Bush WH)to connect the dots from the phrase "the memo went to Powell through the WH" (doh! the Rovian filter!) and then lists all those other players (Fleischer, Libby, Grossman, Hadley).
Sounds like "conspiracy" and "coverup" to me.
wonder who's going on vacation with Bush next month?
July 16, 2005 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for making this last point. One I have not seen brought up before. If, indeed, the reporters leaked the name to Rove, surely he (Rove) should have immediately been on the horn to the CIA to tell them that someone was compromising their agents by leaking their names to the press. He should have been the one to call the Justice Department and demand an investigation. Instead he repeated the leak all over and then said the agent was "fair game."
I don't see how claiming that he first heard the name from the reporters (not the other way around) makes Rove smell any better.
July 16, 2005 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad you asked that question, Matt. You see, the President was terribly worried about the #1 National Crisis -- Social Security -- and he felt that the facts just weren't being put out there in the media. Part of my job is to give the factual backgrounders on the President's policies, so in this regard I was asked to talk to a few of the honest journalist folks out there, just to see if we could clear up some of the false reporting we were seeing. Now, as you all know from the recurring leaks in the ongoing investigation, Matt Cooper tried the old bait and switch with this Joe Wilson charade, but I didn't bite. In policy matters, the President always weighs all available facts and perspectives, but we have to be careful to steer clear of these type of media tricks. No one wants to get to the bottom of this more than the President. He has made it abundantly clear that in wartime the nation must be focused on the security of the homeland. Partisan political ploys to distract us from this mission by persecuting individuals in the media will not be tolerated.
July 16, 2005 9:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
goes to prove that it's not the crime, it's the coverup that's gonna git ya.
Susan, right you are. How soon this is forgotten. Folks seem to have to learn this the hard way and not from the example of others. Of course when you are doing so many dastartly deeds, I suppose you would be forced into cover-up mode at times.
July 16, 2005 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I want to know why it is that timing of Rove's chat with Cooper hasn't gotten more attention. According to the Rove spin, Rove was just trying to do Cooper a favor. On July 11th, 2003. When George Tenet had this to say to the nation:
"Legitimate questions have arisen about how remarks on alleged Iraqi attempts to obtain uranium in Africa made it into the President's State of the Union speech. Let me be clear about several things right up front. First, CIA approved the President's State of the Union address before it was delivered. Second, I am responsible for the approval process in my Agency. And third, the President had every reason to believe that the text presented to him was sound. These 16 words should never have been included in the text written for the President."
Are we supposed to believe that Rove wasn't aware of this? I thought Bush was the one who didn't watch the news.
Of course, once we find the real leaker, the one who started all of this, we'll find that Karl is an entirely innocent victim of coincidence.
The real leaker, of course, will also have brushy hair and a floppy white hat, and know where Hoffa's buried.
July 16, 2005 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, if it looks like a leak and sounds like a leak... it must be a case of Rove trying to save the MSM from making a mistake by publishing an inaccurate story. That seems to be where we're at now with Rove's defense.
And for the last two years the WH has defended the involved parties because they knew all along it wasn't a case of a leak, but they wanted to keep it a secret for a while. And when it comes time to reveal Rove's heroism, they do it in a manner that seems more like response-driven crisis management. I nervously await the next stage of this game...
July 16, 2005 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
These recent 'leaks' are no accident.
July 16, 2005 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is NOT a crime (or unethical) to say that someone works for the CIA. It is only a crime to "out" an under cover agent. There is absolutely no evidence that VALERIE PLAME WAS AN UNDER COVER AGENT IN 2003! There is plenty of evidence to suggest that she STOPPED being an under cover agent in 1997, when she got married and starting working a desk job at Langley.
July 16, 2005 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
He just meant to accuse her of something she didn't do, and in the process accidentally identified her.
If that one truth had been accidentally included in a basket of related truths disclosed to a reporter, there might be latitude to be charitable.
But his disclosure was the only truthful element of a larger lie: that Wilson was dispatched by an enemy of the president who circulated false intelligence.
Naming a covert agent in this falsehood isn't an accident. She didn't do what he claims. He didn't have to mention her except to mislead.
He picked his victim, and he betrayed his country.
July 16, 2005 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Use of capital letters does not make your claim any less idiotic. If you really believe that a federal judge would allow a federal prosecutor to put journalists in jail and threaten others, depose the president and vice-president (granted not under oath..hmm..), and spend millions of taxpayer dollars and keep a federal grand jury impaneled this long without checking such a basic fact as you state then you don't deserve the privelege of posting here. If you don't retract the comment I for one will start troll rating your comments so that you cannot waste valuable electrons on this drivel.
July 16, 2005 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
But it may give him protection from the outing charge - which I understand is very intricate. However, John Dean's article on FindLaw yesterday cites another law that Rove might be held accountable to: 19 USC Section 641 .
As Dean points out, this is the statute the Bush Admin. used to prosecute DEA's Jonathan Randel, who "outed" conservative Brit Lord Michael Ashcroft by simply leaking that Ashcroft's name was in the DEA's files.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander?
July 16, 2005 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
In a somewhat tendentious comment you baldly assert that outing Valerie Plame was NOT a crime. Unfortunately, for your assertion, the CIA did not agree with you when it requested that the FBI initiate a criminal investigation into the matter.
On January 30, 2004 the CIA sent a letter to Rep Conyers describing its view of the situation. Josh Marshall made a copy of this letter available and even put big red arrows on it aimed at the crucial points. For your edification the following is a transcript of the crucial points in that letter.
It is an old military saw that careless talk costs lives. The attempts by those such as yourself to apologize for a leak that may have cost the lives of Plame's contacts is nothing short of despicable.
July 16, 2005 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
One wonders then why CIA sent the matter to DOJ.
But think about it, and see if you are making any sense. Was the NOC Brewster Jennings & Associates also given a desk job at Langley when V. Plame came in from the cold?
How much do you think was invested into BJ&A over the years? Can it still function as a NOC now? What about others who were still operating under this cover in the interests of our national security?
July 16, 2005 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
So good its easy to connect some dots.
Wilson comes back from Africa and tells the CIA committe which sent him that the uranium claim is bogus. The information never makes its way up the channels because the White House is only interested in "intelligence which fits the policy" (DSM). Bush procedes to tell the world that Hussein is Nuclear capable (those 16 words in March 1 SOTUA). When the uranium claims grounding the argument for war is refuted by Wilson and others (July 6, Wilson's NYT editorial), Rove decides to punish the CIA and Wilson for its reclacitrant belief that facts still matter and for their sloppiness: they should have sent to Niger someone who was sympathetic to the WH. The lesson takes the form of outing covert operatives and their front companies, blowing the cover of GOd knows how many agents, destroying years of CIA efforts (July 8, July 13(?) Novak). ALong the way, he inspires some doubt about WIlson's credibility while appearing to be concerned about national security (July 11, Cooper).
At the same time, Tenet is caught up to speed on the brewing scandal, and informed that someone has to take one for the team. The weakest link is the CIA. He's caught between the 'facts', and his complicity in 'fixing the facts', and speaks out on July 11, saying 'I take the blame for the SOTUA', suggesting that even though the CIA knew that the uranium claim was bogus, through their own incompetence CIA allowed the President to say it was true. In this little speach, he undermines the integrity and credibility of the entire CIA, in fact shames them on an (inter)national stage.
The CIA is quite pissed about all this, and decides that an investigation might be in order. And here we are.
July 16, 2005 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yet again! Recently, Pincus wrote about this very topic.
http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Showcase.view&
amp;showcaseid=0019
"On July 12, 2003, an administration official, who was talking to me confidentially about a matter involving alleged Iraqi nuclear activities, veered off the precise matter we were discussing and told me that the White House had not paid attention to former Ambassador Joseph Wilson’s CIA-sponsored February 2002 trip to Niger because it was set up as a boondoggle by his wife, an analyst with the agency working on weapons of mass destruction."
If Rove was Pincus source, that makes it 3 times he casually discussed Wilson's wife.
If it wasn't Rove, a second person was "accidentally" leaking the exact same info. That spells conspiracy.
July 16, 2005 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
JW Dean has dealt with some aspects of this twice before at Findlaw, but I have one link here at yurica. http://www.yuricareport.com/Impeachment/DeanOnWilsonLeakWorseThan Nixon.html
Dean cites the Espionage Act of 1917 as a ready tool for Mr. Fitzgerald. This law does not require high levels of proof and carries stiffer penalties than the IIPAct.
I know a little about this one. Simply divulging classified info. is a crime. And the CIA has historically treated the names of agents as classified. That's why Rove & the spinmeisters keep up the mantra of his not knowing, divulging, or using the name of Mrs. Wilson in any context. This avoids having to prove that Plame/Wilson was undercover or NOC or, or . . . .
July 16, 2005 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
If one of these "reporters" who kept calling about "other topics" but kept "veering off" to pester Rove with information he clearly had no interest in hearing or passing along ...say Judy Miller ...were to say, "Rovey boy, I heard it from an authorized source at State [maybe even flashing her neo-con colors by dropping Bolton's name] ...that Wilson's wife is an agency operative on WMD," wouldn't it be a crime (conspiracy?) for Rove <b>not</b> to report that info to the DOJ?
July 16, 2005 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Problem: if Rove was so concerned with national security, why didn't he inform the reporters that revealing the identity of a covert CIA agent undermined national security?
Answer: Valerie Plame was not a covert CIA agent at the time and has not been a covert agent since 1997.July 16, 2005 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I've heard just about everythng but that.
I hope someone is keeping a list of whoppers and "coincidences", BTW. They obviously think people are fools.
And maybe they will be right that enough people will buy this, but as the history with Nixon, Clinton and others show - when the political machine comes out with complex and often conflicting explanations when a simple answer would do, you have to figure something is up. And in a big way.
My favorite laugher right now , last heard from Kay Hutchinson on "Hardball":
"Karl Rove has always demonstrated the highest of ethical standards".
I keep thinking I've switched over to "The Manchurian Candidate "...
Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've
ever known in my life.”
July 16, 2005 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Meanwhile, the pro-Rove spin regarding Bob Novak's column is that this matter of Joe Wilson's wife just sort of came up casually in a conversation that was focused on something else. It's not as if Rove was running around telling everyone he could find that Wilson's wife was at the CIA."
I thought the latest story is that Novak told Rove, not the other way around.
July 16, 2005 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see, in an interview on CNN, Wilson said his wife was not a clandestine officer:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/wbr.01.html
I suspect that Fitzgerald is after something other than the outing of an under cover agent.
So can we please stop pretending the Rove "outed" an under cover agent?
July 16, 2005 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wilson's comment was intended to make it clear that her career as a covert agent ended 'the day Bob Novak blew her cover'.
He cleared this up in an AP interview. Yesterday I believe.
July 16, 2005 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
(those 16 words in March 1 SOTUA)
btw, I HATE that phrase "16 words." It's a RNC friendly phrase, and a media elite phrase, that totally diminishes thier meaning and value to the ordinary channel flipper. The term I prefer is more descriptive and accurate: "nuclear scare" i.e. "Bush's nuclear scare in the SOTU." It's especially important for pundists and people speaking to the public to use meaningful terminology, and nothing is less relevant sounding than "16 words."
July 16, 2005 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
mmpost is completely wrong. Anyone in doubt about that should read the Dean article referenced by the yurica link in comment 21 above. Being employed by the CIA, having a classified relationship with the CIA, being a covert agent, and being a covert agent as covered by the Intellegence Identities Protection Act (for example, being covert and serving abroad within the last 5 years) are all different things. Revealing different types of classified relationships and covert identities are covered by different laws. The Bush administration apologists are acting like goofs, and will humiliate themselves sooner or later with the public by acting like this. I am not sure whether the rather passive response by the media to these hacks is because of laziness, or complicity, or fear, or a desire to give them enough rope. Why confrot one of these hacks live when you can have them back later when the shit has flown off the fan and is covering the walls, and play a couple of tapes of their inconsistencies and nonsense and contradictions. I do hope what we've seen over the last few days is the last case. This administration has played by the Beria rules ("Give me a man and I'll give you a case") for years, and sooner or later they will slip up and pay for it, either legally or in the court of public opinion. It may be happening now in terms of pubic support (for example, Bush's trustworthiness rating with the public).
July 16, 2005 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the pointer to Brewster Jennings & Associates. As you can probably tell, I tend to read conservative sites and I have not seen a reference to the front company (I occasionally read liberal sites just to make sure I'm not missing anything).
After reading some stories on how Novak discovered BJ&A, it is obvious why the CIA is not happy. And yes, the stories do seem to indicate that Plame was a covert agent as recently as 1999, which means that Rove could be in hot water.
Note, also, that I suspect that the CIA is not too happy with Plame, either. For I find it hard to believe that it is CIA practice to reference a front company on your personal tax return (for I expect that the name of any "employee" of a front company to be a cover name). This stupid mistake by Plame made it possible for Novak to find BJ&A. It also indicates that BJ&A probably wasn't an "active" front company (for I don't believe that Plame would be that stupid).
July 16, 2005 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
And -- both these conversations happened during the week after the Wilson OpEd, which was the biggest newsstory on the PLANET, and Bush and Rice in Africa were fending off ravenous reporters all week.
But Novak wanted to talk to Rove about personnel decisions at Homeland Security. And Cooper wanted to talk to Rove about welfare reform.
And then Wilson just happened to come up.
Oh, sure -- that makes sense
July 16, 2005 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suspect that the CIA is not too happy with Plame, either.
Well, at least you're coming around on this. Here's something else to consider: If she referenced her front company to the IRS under her cover name, why would the CIA be upset? Isn't that how it works?
July 16, 2005 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
The President expects us to blindly trust him to do the job right. That was the kind of rhetoric that he used during his speech on the Iraq War a few weeks ago: "I talk with my generals on the ground all the time; they tell me things are going just fine."
This kind of faith-based politics is like a religion to some of these wingnuts. Go over to Red State or other such blogs and you'll see conversion stories that sound just like the testmonies of people who become Born-Again Christians.
July 16, 2005 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
MMPost99: For I find it hard to believe that it is CIA practice to reference a front company on your personal tax return (for I expect that the name of any "employee" of a front company to be a cover name).
Interesting assumption. I suppose most deep cover operatives file their tax returns “Federal Government – Super Secret”
MMPost99: This stupid mistake by Plame made it possible for Novak to find BJ&A.
Yah, now you’re getting the idea. Once someone out’s an Undercover CIA operative a whole bunch of sensitive information gets exposed to our enemies. The Front Company. Other deep cover operatives. Operatives in the Field. And those working in Washington. Careers are destroyed. People are endangered. Contacts are exposed. And years of hard earned intelligence is flushed down the toilet. All for partisan gain.
MMPost99: Answer: Valerie Plame was not a covert CIA agent at the time and has not been a covert agent since 1997.
Or maybe, just maybe, that's not the answer at all...
July 16, 2005 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
"CNN "Bullshit Coverage" On Karl Rove"
Lou Dobbs Tonight Show on July 15, 2005, as Lou was introducing a piece on the Rove story.
Lou says, "...Rove testifying that he first learned about Plame from columnist Robert Novak, a CNN contributor. Danna Bash reports."
Immediately after that you can clearly hear a female voice on mic whispering "that's bullshit"
Then Dana Bash continues with her report.
The video clip is attached at this link
http://satire.myblogsite.com/blog
you must watch and listen
July 16, 2005 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a problem here, right?
The problem is that the republicans have short, understandable clear messages that they are actively and systematically trying to advance through the media and the democrats do not.
I'm not a professional, but these points are points I'd make:
1. George Bush gave his word, more than once, that the parties that identified Plame would be out of the White House.
2. The exposure of Plame was an organized effort. The identity of Plame was "shopped" by more than one member of the White House to several journalists.
3. Rove and the White House have deliberately lied over the last two years with their claims that they did not know who identified Plame.
4. Rove and the White House, partly through leaks, are deliberately lying today about the circumstances around Plame's exposure. (Novak identified Plame for Rove?, Wilson's trip was approved by his wife?)
The original post is just an example of point four.
If the Democratic National Committee sends out an "analysis" that makes a short number of points to advance, then the millions of politically interested people on the left can start hammering those points and putting those points into their blogs and sending letters to editors asking why their stories did not include those points and deconstructing any attempt by the other side to argue against those points.
But if the right wing of the politically interested is focused, and the left wing is scattered and disorganized, the right wing will get the most ridiculous stories printed in the Washington Post and New York Times.
As Matt understands well, the system is there for the gaming. That's the reality that the reality-based community has to take into account better.
July 16, 2005 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is an interesting article in the LA Times that talks about Valerie Plame's cover, and CIA cover in general. Sinse her cover is obviously classified information, we'll probably never no the entire truth. Maybe this will clear things up a little...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cia16jul16,0
,5815740.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines
July 16, 2005 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Just the day before my grand jury testimony Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, had told journalists that when I telephoned Rove that July, it was about welfare reform and that I suddenly switched topics to the Wilson matter. After my grand jury appearance, I did go back and review my e-mails from that week, and it seems as if I was, at the beginning of the week, hoping to publish an article in TIME on lessons of the 1996 welfare-reform law, but the article got put aside, as often happens when news overtakes story plans. My welfare-reform story ran as a short item two months later, and I was asked about it extensively. To me this suggested that Rove may have testified that we had talked about welfare reform, and indeed earlier in the week, I may have left a message with his office asking if I could talk to him about welfare reform. But I can't find any record of talking about it with him on July 11, and I don't recall doing so."
July 17, 2005 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holy moly - ok, little boy/girl, I think you've been on summer vacation too long. Here are the two possible interpretations of what Wilson said on CNN for my new favourite grade school flunkie, mmpost:
"My wife was not (= ceased to be) a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity."
"My wife was not a clandestine officer (in the sense that she wasn't abroad doing her duty FOR YOU AND ME on) the (specific) day that Bob Novak blew her identity."
This kind of trollish commentary from mmpost is what we are supposed to prevent, and I'm going to start now.
July 17, 2005 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink