Party of Ideas Watch
National Review reporter John J. Miller gives us another of those compelling outside-the-box ideas that have made conservatism the dominant political force in America:
Instead of electing professors, how about deporting them? For every handful of immigrants we take in, we can send a professor packing. Maybe we can even sell it to the profs as multiculturalism. With any luck, we'll wind up bringing in computer scientists, engineers, and physicists -- and kicking out comp lit specialists.
I dunno where the NR crowd went to school, but where I went to college we had all these physicists, engineers, and computer scientists. Indeed, some would say that the physicists, engineers, and computer sciences who aren't also college professors were, you know, trained by professors and that the whole higher education system -- professors and all -- are sort of an important part of keeping science and technology viable in America. And then of course there's medicine and biology which the right doesn't know much about.














One wonders what precisely the problem is with comparativists. I happen to know a few who are conservative.
July 10, 2005 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Party of Ideas Watch
Lack of Humor Watch...
July 10, 2005 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, yet another contradiction from the right. When computer scientists and engineers fret about jobs moving overseas, the conservative argument is that they should quit whining and "move up the food chain". "Moving up the food chain", however, entails wedding engineering principles with knowledge from the liberal arts that the conservatives despise.
They can't have it both ways -- either we can encourage science without philosophy and end up losing out to lower-wage countries as information technology becomes commodified or we have to break down the walls between the sciences and the liberal arts to encourage innovation.
July 10, 2005 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lack of Humor Watch
The joke, such as it is, is simple enough to get, Al. The joke is merely asinine. The sentiment conveyed by the joke translates to "Boy oh boy, do I hate professors and think they're useless!", which is both stupid and foolish for all the reasons Matt outlines. If you'd like to try to defend the absurd proposition that the US doesn't particularly need academics, I'd welcome the spectacle.
July 10, 2005 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lack of Humor Watch...
I dunno. I laugh at you and the NRO guys all the time.
Ya know, I'll bet yer married to Nancy the Feminist troll (and we do mean *troll*), ain'tcha? That'd explain why you're always so desperate for good news from Iraq.
ash
['No wonder you love Bush.']
July 10, 2005 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lack of Humor Watch...
If this is a comment on the fine people at the NRO who post such drivel, I might change my rating on your comment to one much higher.
July 10, 2005 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The whole premise of Miller's argument is silly. The physicists, engineers and computer scientists from abroad aren't going to have a political idealogy and one even farther to the left? It is just the Right lashing out at everything they feel is liberal...the MSM, academia etc. Part of the process of higher intellect is to question and criticize, and the Right doesn't like either of those to happen.
July 10, 2005 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Ash, I live in my Mom's basement. Kind of odd for a middle-aged white guy who's never been married to be living with his parents, but I don't have any friends and I've never ever kissed a girl, and I'm just such a sad, pathetic loser that I have to come here and troll just to wallpaper over my own inumerable inadequacies.
It's all I really have to do. Other than eat Cheeze-doodles, that is. I eat lots of freakin' Cheeze-doodles.
July 10, 2005 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually it is about a failure to see the humor. Although I suspect that Matt knows it was posted in jest.
I find the guys at NRO to be hilarious but you really do have to understand their sense of humor. If you relax and let yourself enjoy it their mag is very entertaining that way. Much of what is written over there is done with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
Sometimes if you want to enjoy life you have to make a decision, you know?
July 11, 2005 4:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
And if you want to know why they'd even joke about such a thing go read Professor Gitlin's post on the TPM front page, or just the first and last sentence.
July 11, 2005 5:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I fail to see the humor. Humor should be clever and insightful. This is neither. The original article isn't very clever. About a decade ago Russel Baker had a column on trading lawyers (ours) for Japanese cars (Japan's). It was clever, and, as far as I know, was the first of its genre. The cute idea of trading profs for immigrants is just stupid. As Matt points out, it probaby isn't even knee-jerk attractive to right wingers. It just points out the hostility of the writer -- one of those jokes that leaves people embarrassed.
July 11, 2005 7:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Part of the process of higher intellect is to question and criticize, and the Right doesn't like either of those to happen.
Exactly right. They would want a nation of sheep to follow the leader off a cliff if that's where the leader goes, just like the 450 sheep that followed the first off a cliff in Turkey recently. The sheep are the perfect metaphor for those cult-like Bush supporters who believe he can do no wrong. The Right would want many more like them.
July 11, 2005 7:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually I agree, I don't find it particularly funny either. But that IS the spirit in which is was posted and the fact that it falls flat is secondary.
Nobody over there is seriously positing that professors should be deported, you see? It was meant as a joke, not an "idea". It fell flat. Shrug. I've told a lot of jokes that fall flat, but that doesn't mean I'm viscious or evil or something. Quite the opposite, since jokes are meant to entertain and amuse people, IE to make them laugh.
July 11, 2005 7:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
And btw this is why they talk about the "humorless left".
July 11, 2005 8:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you relax and let yourself enjoy it their mag is very entertaining that way.
The problem is that promoting ignorance, even in jest, is neither funny nor enjoyable in this country, at this time.
July 11, 2005 8:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
And this is why they talk about the 'humorless left.'
I thought it was because we didn't laugh at gay jokes?
July 11, 2005 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
John Podhoritz went to the University of Chicago...I was a classmate and one of the cast members in a musical that he wrote and starred in back in 1982.
For some reason his dramatic career has been omitted from his resume....
July 11, 2005 9:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't see how the joke is "promoting ignorance" however lame it may be.
One might argue that an uninitiated person reading that post would be compelled to learn what the heck he was talking about right?
I read NR (as, obviously, does Matt) and I don't feel that it makes me more ignorant. I feel it helps me understand conservative views.
I find it quite interesting as I also find Mother Jones to be interesting. I don't take either to be the end all and be all. I just enjoy reading opinions from the left and right and I don't despise people due to their political slant.
So "promoting ignorance" makes me wonder what your point is, or what I'm missing.
I have a Vet for my beagle Sassy, a graduate of LSU 25 years ago. He's great, by far the best Vet we've ever had. He spends about an hour with me (I'm not exaggerating at all, maybe more than an hour on average) every time I go up there and he always has a Michael Jackson joke. Last time it was:
"How are Michael Jackson and McDonald's alike? 45 year old meat between 10 year old buns."
Time before that it was:
"What's the difference between Michael Jackson and acne? Acne usually doesn't come on your face until you're 13 or so."
Was he promoting ignorance? I suppose one could argue that but I wouldn't.
July 11, 2005 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sort of like when Bush was trying to be silly when he was looking for WMDs under the White House sofa.
Ha Ha Ha...no WMDs after all. Joke's on you.
July 11, 2005 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read NR (as, obviously, does Matt) and I don't feel that it makes me more ignorant. I feel it helps me understand conservative views.
Nothing wrong with reading NR. I would never advocate against reading anything you choose to read. I would say that reading the opposition is a good thing, and could make you smarter.
About the joke, maybe it's me, but I just don't get it.
July 11, 2005 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
So once we have all these physicists, engineers and computer scientists how do we keep idiots like Bush and other right wing nut jobs from ignoring the thoroughly considered findings of their work? Bush has made a clear statement that he and his cohorts have little interest in science. For them, science exists only to provide confirmation for their philosophical views or to support an economic goal. Any science that is in disagreement is ignored.
thepeoplechoose
July 11, 2005 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually it is about a failure to see the humor. Although I suspect that Matt knows it was posted in jest.
Believing that you made a joke is not the same as making a joke. It also requires some wit. Matt already pointed out one reason why the joke doesn't work. The other one that comes to mind is that computer scientists and physicists are usually liberal or moderate. A computer scientist like David Gelernter is noteworthy because he is one of the rare conservatives, and even he's a bit idiosyncratic in his interests.
Personally, I'd love to have more foreign born technical professionals becoming voting American citizens. I imagine their voting patterns would be a lot like Santa Clara county here in the Bay Area.
July 11, 2005 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was meant as a joke, not an "idea".
Matt was using "idea" in a sardonic sense. Do you honestly believe that he mistook the article for a serious proposal?
July 11, 2005 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I know that I couldn't agree more with Miller. We ought to take the whole high-education system and ship it to France. Just think, every American who wanted to get an college degree would have to study abroad. No doubt the U.S. economy would take off while France would slip into Third-World status after that move. With brilliant out-of-the-box wonkery like Miller's we're in great hands.
July 11, 2005 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's like the 13 year old boy who makes nasty, sarcastic comments about everyone and then when someone gets angry, he says, "I was only kidding!"
July 11, 2005 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Libertine- It is just the Right lashing out at everything they feel is liberal...the MSM, academia etc.
I'll add to this idea that they desire to foster old fashion racism and exhibit a pyschosis of the masses-collective paranoia. Hindu professionals that I have talked to just speak about the economic advantages for moving here. The right is fighting a losing battle-define everything from within the box.
July 11, 2005 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I find the guys at NRO to be hilarious
That is because you are very simple-minded and have a rather undeveloped sense of humor, much like the writers. As Tom Tomorrow wrote, "many conservatives write as though they have heard of satire, but never experienced it directly."
Humorous twists are always grossly inappropriate, but they should also be funny, unexpected, and make sense in some bizarre way. The NRO proposal here is none of these, and resorts to the sort of temper-tantrum self-contradictory "we hate professors" (but scientists don't count as professors (!?)).
July 11, 2005 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Example of humor: Making a post about a stupid, unfunny idea from NR and entitling it "Party of Ideas Watch" is funny and cutting.
The analogue to the original article would have been for MY to write, "Oh yeah?? Well I think they should deport William Buckley!" which, one would hope, everyone would realize is not funny.
July 11, 2005 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't the guys at the NRO know that most of the new professors at universities these days are immigrants. Just think of all of the professors that the students can't understand because they just arrived from India, China, Taiwan, Russia, the former Jugoslavia, etc. Does the NRO want them to check in through Immigration and then board the next flight back to their old homeland?
July 13, 2005 4:33 AM | Reply | Permalink