Mailbag: Response to Comments
Since part of the goal of this blog is to open a broader dialogue with non-labor progressives, I thought I'd respond to a few issues raised in comments.
Reese: "But what good is a union when the laborers involved are individuals with a bachelors degree or graduate work who do mental work, i.e. not physically taxing work, all day and receive relatively high compensation and benefits?"
Like university professors, unionized on campuses throughout the California State University system or actors and Hollywood writers, who are heavily unionized? Office workers of all kinds are unionized in government, for example. Workers of all kinds, from baseball players down to janitors, have interests that are different from their employers and unions have created a wide range of contracts that reflect those interests.
One myth out there is that every union contract looks like the United Auto Workers, with relatively set hours and seniority systems.
But as sports and Hollywood union contracts highlight, there are plenty of alternative contract models out there that reflect the needs of workers for non-traditional compensation systems.
No group of workers have more individual ability to negotiate their terms for employment than baseball players, yet they also feel the need to collectively organize the framework within which those individual negotiations happen. Which is a pretty strong example that there is probably no industry where workers would not benefit from having a union to negotiate such collective terms.
One reason Hollywood unions have remained strong is that they set the terms for who owns the intellectual property produced in that city and how the proceeds from it are distributed. There is a quite elaborate system of dividing credit and payments from that IP, both to individuals and to collective pension systems.
For a long time, high-tech workers thought stock options were all they needed to assure their share of the corporate pie, but the dot-com bust has shown that's a pretty random way to take care of your family over the long-term. Why shouldn't high-tech workers learn from Hollywood about how unions can create a framework for more equitably sharing the proceeds of intellectual property between firms and their workers?
Glenn: "let me give you my initial take on why some Dems, this one included, don't tend to see labor as part of the broader progressive movement -- it's because I don't see labor unions seeing themselves that way. Let me give you an example from here in NYC: the Jets Stadium...The construction unions were solidly behind it, for obvious reasons -- their own jobs."
Notably, a range of African-American leaders in NYC were also supporting the West Side development, so one might argue it's the generally well-off West Side residents who were defecting from the progressive coalition, not the construction unions.
But that said, of course specific unions can do better on longer-term alliances-- another example is better alliances with environmental groups -- but that has to go both ways. Many of the West Side opponents could be fighting harder for alternative development plans that would build expanded housing and just as many construction jobs as the stadium. A few opponents are, but many just had a NIMBY reaction.
This implicit attack on unions as parochial for promoting jobs just feeds the Republican caricature that liberals don't have an agenda for job creation. The West Side stadium might not be the best approach, but that should put the onus on opponents to propose an alternative that creates as many or more jobs, not just attack the unions for taking the best deal out there, since they don't see enough strong partners in the rest of the liberal coalition who care about jobs for the non-college educated.
Reece: "a lot of issues that are at the forefront of our national political discussion cut across issues that may otherwise align voters. The simple example is abortion. One's view on abortion is not affected by one's membership or participation in a union."
Here is why unions are so critical to the progressive coalition, since many of these supposed non-economic social issues become quite relevant economic issues when discussed in the workplace context. A basic issue for women in the workplace is whether their workplace health insurance will cover abortion and contraception, and many unions have fought vigorously on behalf of women for equity in health coverage connected to reproductive rights.
Similarly, gay marriage is not just a religious issue, but an economic issue for gay workers denied benefits in the workplace. This is why the AFL-CIO in both Massachusetts and Michigan opposed the anti-gay marriage amendments last fall.
Which highlights an overall point-- labor unions are involved in far more issues of concern to progressives than I think most of them recognize. They read headlines in the newspaper, like the union involvement in the West Side stadium, and think That's What Unions Do, while they ignore the far wider range of union coalitions that are vital to progressive work across the country.














Nathan--
I just want to add a bit to your response to Reese's comment. Reese stated, "But what good is a union when the laborers involved are individuals with a bachelors degree or graduate work who do mental work, i.e. not physically taxing work, all day and receive relatively high compensation and benefits?"
I'm not exactly sure what experience Reese has with what graduate employees make, but to describe it as "relatively high compensation" is a gross overstatement. I have been a graduate student/employee in a humanities department for the past 4 years, and I can tell you with certainty that we're not rolling in it. Those who are lucky enough to find summer employment in my department generally take home 15K a year pre-tax and those who don't will take home 12K a year pre-tax. Moreover, this past year, I was an organizer on a drive to unionize graduate employees on my campus and low pay was our number one organizing issue.
I think many progressively-minded people are under quite a few misconceptions about the way American universities currently operate. In many ways, these progressives tend to accept much of the right-wing caricature of the university as a place of high-earning, tenured, ivory-tower elites. I urge all of these people to read Jennifer Washburn's _University Inc._ to get a more accurate sense of what is going on at American universities. Graduate and Adjunct labor are the new cost-cutting tools at all universities. These employees are paid rock-bottom wages enabling universities to hire fewer and fewer tenure-track professors. In other words, just like in any other corporation, cost-cutting is done by lowering the overall wages of the people that work for the universities. Most progressives would abhor such practices at Walmart, but either don't realize it's happening or don't care when it happens at a university.
July 7, 2005 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
<span class="Apple-style-span">It horrifies me that a rather large number of people think that because others work with their minds, not their backs, that we're not getting (or can't possibly be) screwed by our employers. As Stahlsworth said, graduate students get paid quite low wages for the work we do. My annual stipend is about $18k, but I am a physical scientist and stipends are typically higher for us than for humanities or engineering. My husband is an engineer, and his stipend is comparable to a humanities student's ($12k + summer assitantship, if available). My brother-in-law did not go to college and makes more money than we do together as an assistant manager at a convenience store. All that and he has better job security. As a graduate student, your advisor can "fire" you anytime or pressure students into quitting with no repercussions, even if you're efficient and producing the work needed. Since I look forward to a career teaching in my field, I will be competing with up to 500 other applicants for one position like a colleague recently did. At least, unlike many in humanities, I have a 95% chance of finding employment somewhere (academia, industry, nonprofits, etc.). But in the eyes of many, we intellectuals have it easy.</span>
<span class="Apple-style-span">There are goals that make graduate school worthwhile. Despite the potentital for abuse, most advisors are </span>decent people and treat their students professionally. The problems come when people fail to respect each other and when the $12k stipend is not enough to feed yourself if you want to keep an apartment.
Regards,Denise
July 7, 2005 7:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're missing the point. He wasn't picking on grad students.
By "graduate work", I suspect he meant someone who's been to graduate school and is now working in whatever field they studied (whether its business or architecture or whatever).
beowulf
July 7, 2005 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nathan, you make an interesting point about the stadium deal in New York. People, all people, have to look out for their own livelihoods.
But the proposed deal would have trampled on a lot of other interests -- worst of all by including a $600 million giveaway in public funds to the stadium's owners.
Can the trades escape criticism as me-firsters by saying, we had to push for this plan because we didn't have other reliable partners? If we accept that argument for this deal, are they at least looking for opportunities to create a world where they don't have to accept deals like this?
July 8, 2005 8:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a physical scientist who left graduate school two years ago, and who was loosely assoicated with a graduate student unionization movement there, I don't entirely agree. Stipends are absolutely a low wage, and they are clearly not enough to afford raising a family.
However, graduate school is fundamentally unlike Wal-Mart in a number of respects. First, a stated part of the goal is to increase one's earning potential and job choice capacity - which makes graduate school an investment as much as a job. In the broader economy, numbers on the earning power of people with advanced degrees is actually quite rosy.
Universities as a whole are also subject to price pressure due to their fundamental non-scalability. In many professions, wages rise (e.g. $80-$150K wages for the caliber of engineer who would be a professor) as the employee's productivity increases. In the university setting, research and teaching output can't really be increased much. And there has been a huge trend to de-fund universities at the state and federal level, which also puts price pressure on to hire grad students rather than tenured professors. So as the more senior, higher-paid professors are recruited and kept by keeping wages in line with industry, the amount of money available for others goes down. And the trend to drive students towards academia increases the demand for academic jobs, again driving down wages for incoming professors.
An important piece of this puzzle is that many graduate program focus exclusively (or nearly so) on preparing students for jobs in academia, which are scarce and not all that well-paid.
This is the source of my qualms. With some tweaking of their education and skills, most graduate students can in fact make a very comfortable living - but they must accept trading academia and research for industry to do so. Many are unhappy with this choice, and it's indeed a tough decision. But it's not the same bread and butter issue as workers who cannot make enough to afford housing and medical care, now or in the future.
So if grad student unions will force schools to train students in ways that provide them more job options when their school is up, and provide help for students whose circumstances obligate them to look for different work, I'm all for it. But I'm distinctly unsympathetic to the notion that graduate students are being oppressed because they can't have the jobs they want and make the salary they want at the same time.
July 8, 2005 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink