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Matt Speaks!

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So Matt Cooper is testifying, apparently after having heard from his source and gotten a green light to do so.  This does get weirder and weirder.  And I strongly suspect we're about to move into a maze of legal mumbo-jumbo in which everyone has some purported excuse or legal out for doing the deed. 

Thoughts?


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Try the culprit for treason and execute the public square.


That or a looooong sentence in federal "pound-you-in-the-butt" prison.

Regardless, I hope we can all come together to form some kind of bi-partisan TV movie out of all of this.

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why does everyone forget the most important part of this whole thing. who had access the names of covert agents in the first place. it is very unlikely anyone in the white house would every know the names. so the question is who had passed the information up to rove?

Novak ought to be skinned alive. I wonder how he slithered his way out of this mess.

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I will be appalled if Rove turns out to be the source of the Plame leak. How stupid can one be. Surely he could have delegated this task to a functionary who is expendable if caught. This would take much of the shine off his supposed brilliance.

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Its been a few days since the story came out so it shouldn't be too hard to imagine Rove and Cooper have an agreed course set out to lead the prosecutor in the direction they want him to follow.

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Matt Speak, You Listen!

Wait a second . . . .
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A question for Josh. Percentage wise what do do think the chances are that perjury is what is driving this investigation, now? If that is so, who are the "targets". Could Bush and or Cheney be targets? MOst probably Rove is a "target"...

Rove isn't that smart as you make him out to be. He readily admitting to phoning everyone he could to spill the beans once Plame's name was made public by "another source".

If he were "smart" he would have stayed away from it with a ten foot pole. Then again, by joining in on the feeding frenzy, it allows him an alibi to hide his involvement.

Judith Miller is being sent to jail!

I wonder why the source would free Cooper from his obligations, but not Miller? This is all quite weird.

"Fitzgerald may learn more details from Cooper's notes. Sources close to the investigation say there is evidence in some instances that some reporters may have told government officials -- not the other way around -- that Wilson was married to Plame, a CIA employee." - Regardless, the original source has to have come from the inside. To spin it from that angle only convolutes the true objective of the investigation.

Different sources, maybe? Sounds like this became the worst kept secret in town before it got published...

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Wait a minute. "stayed away from it with a ten foot pole???"

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Who will star in our bi-partisan TV movie? Zell Miller's gotta be in there somewhere, maybe as DeLay & Cunningham's wild-eyed enforcer...! Imagine the showdown between him and Howard Dean!

Would it not be ironic if Miller is person who is in fact charged with a crime? Perhaps this is why the Times was so worried over Time turning over the notes.

I think Cooper and the source had already set up a game plan of how to handle this. It isn't a clear cut case of protecting a source, and I'd think Cooper might have agreed to hold firm to a certain point in exchange for a waiver if he reached the point of going to jail. There might have been other backroom dealings as well.

In Miller's case, her principled stand probably has to do with how the NYT will look once it is seen how proactively she was a part of pimping White House smears.

The media might come out as one of the bad actors here.

I think the statement that the Source gave permission is a throw away. I also think Rove as well as Novak were so arrogantly self possesed they were oblivious to the consequenses of thier words. I witnessed Bob Novak the Traitor when he outed Mrs Plane and I was shocked at his smugness and bewildered at what he had just done.

Matt talks, but Judy remains mum and gets to don an orange jump suit.  Has anyone seen "The Big Doll House"?

It's interesting that there's no reporting going on about Time's decision to divulge the notes and the NY Times' decision not to. You'd think that there would be a few reporters around interested in the Times' silence.

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I just can agreed with myself about who I'd like to see more in hot water.....Rove or Novak.  They're both uppity, lying, mean-spirited trolls.  Glad to see that Novak was finally getting some heat from fellow journalists this past weekend.  Can't wait for his "tell-all" column, which he says is coming. 

I wonder why the source would free Cooper from his obligations, but not Miller?


One possibility is that Miller isn't going to jail to protect a source ... she's going to jail to keep from admitting her role in initiating or helping to spread the leak.

Luskin said Rove gave waivers.  Cooper said these were general waivers and he wanted a specific one (apparently Libby gave him a specific one!).  Now Cooper has a specific waiver.  I doubt Cooper is in cahoots with Rove but the question is what Rove and Luskin went through to decide that they were willing to grant a specific waiver to Cooper which they were not before.  This likely hinges on a decision that Rove did not `knowingly' out someone is strong enough to counter his previous public claim that he didn't talk to anyone until after Novak's column came out. 

Over at tpm, Josh reminds us that he suggested a few days ago that Cooper and Miller may be on the hook for different reasons, and explicitly links that comment today to the Washington Post's report that "sources close to the investigation" -- presumably Fitzgerald's office, even though they have been very disciplined about leaks in general -- are saying that at least in some instances reporters may have told government officials, and not vice versa, that Wilson was married to Plame.  We know that right around the time of the publication of Wilson's op-ed there was contact (by phone, I think) between some government official (Rove?) and Miller.  Swopa raised the possibility that it was Miller who contacted the Bush administration (again, not vice versa) with the info, gained from her work in WMD-related-program-rumor reporting or whatever it was she was doing, that Plame was Wilson's wife and so on.  That's about as far as I can go before my head starts to hurt.  So here are a couple of questions and comments.
First, what, exactly, if this is true, would Miller really be in trouble for?  What would be the different reason, exactly, that she would be in a jam?  And if it is different from the reason Cooper was, would she be able to claim the same rationale -- protecting a confidential source -- as Cooper?  Wouldn't it be clear that she was in some other sort of trouble from the prosecutor's filings and from her own claims?
Second, Swopa also noted that the Washington Monthly's Paul Glastris recently (June 27th -- someone please explain to me how to do links!) asked for support in helping keep Cooper out of jail, but did not do so with regard to Judith Miller.  Is this just because Glastris and others at the Washington Monthly are friends with Cooper, or because there is some other reason to distinguish between Cooper and Miller, as Swopa suggests?  Surely Josh Marshall -- who's written with Glastris on the related matter of the forging of the Niger uranium documents -- knows the answer to this question.  As numerous people have expressed, one of the frustrations of this case is that it appears that lots of people in the Washington press have known a lot more about the case than they've been saying but have put their guild loyalty above truth and serving the public.  Let's not let the blogosphere do the same.  So speak up and tell us what you know.

Yea I hope he writes it from a federal prison.

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I'm sorry if I seem a little dim, but there's little about this that makes sense to me.

Why has it taken two years (and counting) to investigate this? We're talking a single crime involving at most a few evil-doers. Prosecutors spend less time investigating complicated financial malfeasance.

Why is Novak immune from the prosecutorial demands placed on Cooper and Miller?

If Fitzgerald concludes that Rove is the guilty party, will he be criminally prosecuted?

Having decided to turn over source information to the prosecutor, wouldn't it be ethically more consistent to provide the public with that information?

Perhaps the answer to these questions are obvious if you've been keeping up with this affair, but I haven't so any insights would be greatly appreciated.

"I went to bed ready to accept the sanctions" for not testifying, Cooper said. But he told the judge that not long before his early afternoon appearance, he had received "in somewhat dramatic fashion" a direct personal communication from his source freeing him from his commitment to keep the source's identity secret." Is this simply a tactic for Cooper to save face and avoid being labelled a 'ninny' in the face of jail-time? Is it really conceivable that the true source would give his/her blessing to Cooper?  If it is indeed Rove, is he thinking of limiting potential pr damage associated with a reporter ACTUALLY being sent to jail for this? 

Either Novak the Traitor spilled his guts or he is being considered as part of the conspiracy or he is a target. If he did slither out he must have some serious dirt on somebody.

According to the NYTs email Judith Miller has been ordered to jail immediately.

Drudge Report

I went to bed ready to accept the sanctions' for not testifying, TIME mag reporter Matthew Cooper said. But he told the judge that not long before his early afternoon appearance, he had received 'in somewhat dramatic fashion' a direct personal communication from his source freeing him from his commitment to keep the source's identity secret...

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If Miller is the direct source for Cooper, he could well have been released by her at the court house!

She could be in a position to have learned Plame's name during her reporting...either from someone in the WH/NSC or out on the WMD beat.

Interesting to consider information flow here:  from Miller to the WH? or from Miller to someone to the WH?

I've wondered if Matalin is somehow involved in all this.
  


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What the f--- does "knowingly" mean? Can someone say "Well, you know his wife is a CIA agent..." and not know it?

This sort of jiggery pokery smokescreen 'pay no attention to the man behind the curtain' crap makes me think of the remark by H.L.Mencken:

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,  hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

Saintperle

Why wouldn't Bush just pardon Rove or whoever? It's clear he believes the only crime is disloyalty, and he seems divorced enough from reality not to realize it would hurt him publicly. The only person who would tell him otherwise is Rove.

There have been some questions as to how Ms Plame's name came to be known in order to be leaked. Wild rumor mongering I suppose, but I remember reviewing Mr Bolton's resume quite a while back and making a connection.  I think we'll being seeing his name in the papers again.
dc

It hasn't really taken two years to investigate; the head of the process admitted that he's been stalled since last October. Which just goes to show how absurd this whole thing is: not that it doesn't matter, but that it's spiralled out of control.

Too bad about the timing. Judy could have been Martha Stewart's cell mate. Well, maybe she'll be L'il Kim's.

I read the other day that Plame's cover wasn't really all that deep - anyone looking closely at the registries for her "firm" would have realized it was little more than a PO Box. There was also speculation at one point that Plame had set up Wilson's trip. So maybe someone pointed out those two items to Miller at the same time, she put together the CIA connection, and then asked around to verify it. Anyone that "verified" it after that wouldn't be knowingly reavealing it - just verifying something they thought someone *else* had already leaked.

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Based upon the various bits of information and clues that have emerged this past week, its appears that Miller was more of a co-conspirator than journalist in this affair, and that is why she is refusing to testify. It makes sense, given that she had a vested interest in the White House's WMD tripe not being discredited by the likes of Wilson. And when he wrote his opinion piece, she clearly realized the threat to her credibility. 

I suspect that Judith is hiding behind the 1st Amendment to avoid invoking the 5th. 

I'm pretty sure that even if Judith Miller passed the fact that Plame was CIA onto members of the Rove cadre, she wouldn't be guilty of any crime. Or, at least under Section 421, it doesn't appear to be the case, since the statute requires the leaker to have "authorized" access to the information (unlikely for a reporter):

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00000
421----000-.html

The plain meaning of the statute seems to focus on punishing government employees with access to classified information who leak - rather than reporters. 

Perhaps Miller somehow perjured herself during this process.  Other than that, I can't see her being convicted of a crime (beyond contempt).

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What are the odds that Miller source will be revealed as Ahmed Chalabi, or someone who cannot be pursued?

I may be wrong, but I believe that to pardon you have to first have an indictment or conviction.  Pre-pardoning would serve Bush/Rove no good at present. 

 

 

The question arises as to how many sources are there in this case, if Cooper was freed from his commitment to his source and Miller still refuses to testify, does that mean there is more than one Leaker in the White House?

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&amp
;id=1216

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Worse Case Scenario: Rove gets outed for being the outer.
Has to resign, is charged with a crime, then pardoned by Dubya.

Cooper was given dramatic and specific waiver by his source. This may not be the case for Miller.

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Can somebody please explain to me why Novack is seemingly out of the picture here? Why isn't HE under the same pressure right now? He's the one who published the story!
Thanks.

Rove has made a living over the last decade of making the mainstream press guffaw over this president and at the same time be "liberally biased" and incompetent. It's interesting that two members of the mainstream press would go to jail to protect the man that has defamed their professions--that's not to say that Miller hasn't contributed to her own incompetence. What would be the political ramifications if it appeared (from Cooper's notes) that Rove was the culprit, yet members of the press were willing to stand up on ethical grounds and go to jail for his (alleged) crimes.  How well would Rove be able to pound the liberal bias line after that?   

What I don't understand is why the White House is hanging Miller out to dry after she so diligently carried their water in the build-up to the Iraq war.

I'm not familiar with Cooper's work before or after the war, but it's to imagine more credulous reporting of every White House talking point than in Millers prewar columns.

Even if Miller gets the go ahead to testify from her source, why was Cooper first?  And how did things even get this far for Miller?  Sure, she's no Bob Novak, but some might say her 'reporting' was a valuble contribution to the selling of the Iraq war to the American public.

I hope at least Miller has learned a lesson in all of this:  Bush's vaunted "loyalty" is only for a select few.  Just because you've played ball with the White House in the past is no reason to expect them not to turn their collective backs & leave you twisting in the wind at some time in the future.

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Maybe everyone ought to google Plame, and get back up to speed on this. Unless of course you just like to emulate Rush and the wingnut echo chamber. This one is serious, and the treason runs deep.

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You moonbats have cried and whined since you first heard that BlowHard Joe Wilson spew his lies and bile. Now, you get to watch your heroes go down in flames. Joe is the source morons. Figure it out

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I still don't understand why Robert Novak is unscathed by this. I must have missed the explanations as to why he is not being called/forced to testify. Anyone enlighten? I'll get to setting up a proper account later.

I think the going theory is that he's already quietly testified.

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Your fellow Californian Richard Nixon was pardoned by President Ford without being charged with anything.

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How about this for a tin-hat scenario: The source of the "leak" was really Ahmed Chalabi, who told Judith Miller. Miller "told" Rove as part of an information exchange, and Cooper also got wind of it, perhaps via Rove or Libby. Cooper then contacted Miller, who verified the information. It was then Miller, not Rove, who faxed Cooper to release him from exposing her as the confidential source. She was willing to go to jail, but didn't want to see Cooper suffer for it. Rove is so broadly disliked that everyone is hoping he knew and spread the word illegally. The Novak connection in this scenario is one where Rove detailed what he had heard to Novak, who checked it out with Libby (who also picked it up and verified the validity of the connection) and CIA sources. Novak is really the heartless SOB because he published it, because he could and still get away with it. Fitzgerald is really trying to figure out how Chalabi got the classified information. Rove and Libby just whipped it up so everyone knew, but weren't really the primary sources.
I'll stay anonymous so nobody bothers me while I receive more signals from the mothership.

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What if Miller was told by someone from within the CIA that Plame was an agent?  That might be the ultimate source of the leak and the prosecutor wants to find out who was specifically responsible. The White House gleefully used the information, perhaps gleaned from Miller--but the White House (Rove et al.) was not necessarily the primary source of the leak. In any case this is getting curioser and curioser.

You'd think Miller and Cooper had 15 to 20 hanging over their heads the way this is all agonized over. We're talking 4 months here. 4 months pass in my life sometimes seemingly in the blink of an eye. Remember last Christmas? 7 months ago. Must seem like yesterday to some of you. Yeah, me too. If Fitzgerald thinks October is so far down the damn road Miller will crack I fear he underestimates her resolve. What's needed is an extension of the grand jury and the resulting extension of confinement.

I guess you don't get around much.  Many of us on this side of the blogosphere do not regard Judy Miller as a hero, but rather as a villain for her role in fomenting the war in Iraq. 

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You want a tinfoil hat scene. Joe Wilson gets sent on an errand by his wife. Upon being shown the door after his trip is learned to be nothing but an exercise in mint tea sipping, he gets his feelings hurt. Knowing that govt officials know they cannot leak his wife's name, Joe does the deed himself. Reporters, who knew this already, jump at the bait. Especially the old crank Novak. Once its out there, all Hell breaks loose. And in classic "Victim" mode, Wilson blames everyones but himself in his life of projected delusions. What do ya'll think?

Try this scenario on for size: -
 
* As Josh has documented, there are reports that it was a reporter telling White House staff who Wilson's wife was, rather than vice versa. 

* Assume, for a second, that this is true...and the reporter doing the telling was Judie Miller. She's certainly plugged into the Pentagon and CIA enough to know, and Plame's area of expertise - WMD - was Miller's beat.

*The statute in question focuses on punishing government leakers with access to classified info, not reporters, so Judie isn't going to be charged with a crime for leaking the info herself. 

***So one question remains: who told Judie?  Could it be that Judie is, in fact, concealing the identity of a source who revealed Plame's name to her at some point prior to the Rove conference call?  Who could that leaker be?  Given her closeness with the neocons during the Chalabi Tall Tales Era, a few names jump to mind....

Is anyone else furious at the Post for using the word "sources" to suggest that Miller or Cooper or some other journo may be the leaker? I thought Kurtz and the ombudsman had made it very clear that using unnamed "sources" would have to be justified? Who wants to guess that those "sources" are inside the White House?

This smells to high heaven of a major psy-ops game ... The saving grace, for me at least, is that Fitzgerald is surely the best man for the job.

From the WSJ last Friday (sorry, HTML/WYSIWYG not working on my browser...):

"During his tenure in Chicago, Mr. Fitzgerald has gone after Republicans and Democrats alike. In 2003, he indicted former Illinois Gov. George Ryan, a Republican, for public corruption. In May, he brought charges against Michael Tristano, the former chief of staff for a leading Republican legislator, for misdirecting state employees to perform political campaign work. Both men are awaiting trial.

Mr. Fitzgerald has been equally hard on Chicago's Democratic-led city government, indicting officials there for a number of crimes. In one instance before he was named special prosecutor, Mr. Fitzgerald and other federal prosecutors across the country were told to arrange meetings with Congress to begin building support for the Patriot Act. One person at the meeting said that many of those present had misgivings but remained silent. Mr. Fitzgerald spoke up: 'It sounds like lobbying. We can't do that. The law won't permit it.'

Those types of comments make his prosecution of the reporters in the Plame case -- including Ms. Miller, who didn't write an article on the subject -- perplexing to some. 'Pat doesn't go after journalists; he goes after the truth,' says Chuck Rosenberg, the U.S. attorney in Houston who knows Mr.Fitzgerald well. 'So we must surmise [the reporters] have evidence that will lead him to the truth.'"

Perhaps this has been mentioned elsewhere, but the reason why Mr. Glastris probably singled out Mr. Cooper is that Mr. Cooper spent an early part of his journalistic career writing for the Washington Monthly.

Here's a key flaw in Judith Miller's position.

Judith Miller pretends to be protecting freedom of speech. However, she does so by protecting the identify of someone wreaking retribution against a citizen (Joe Wilson) for exercising his freedom of speech in blowing wide open the fradulent rush to war. She is protecting the powerful and the corrupt in their rush to censor dissent. 

Cry no tears for Judith Miller. 

not quite, alyssa. the reason the investigation has been "stalled" is because cooper and miller have refused to testify, not because the investigation is "out of control." (it may well be out of control, and it may well be about to close the deal with indictments, and it may be somewhere in between, but none of this relates to the "stalled" issue that arises from miller and cooper.)

Hi.
 This is my first post here and I am glad there is a place that at least the semblance of liberty still exists. Now that, that is said has any on thought about the possability that the Judith Miller involvment in this affair is just a atempt at cleaning up a discredited reporter.  I mean after all it was Miller that was "in bed" with Chaliby and the bush people in the run up to war.  Normally a reporter that puts major news stories in a paper that are found to be nothing but spoon fed bull, is fired or at least made to pay some penelty for their "mistake" just not her.

While we are on the subject, the point of the story is that a specific agent was named and no lofty ideal applies to this matter.  The people that want to make this in to somthing other than a simple case of treason by who ever named Ms Wilson. They were not publishing the pentagon papers or some major governmental policy, that would invoke the sheild laws, this was just a simple matter of vengance that needs to be punished, with out all the whoopla and pomp that some of these people want to use to cover up a criminal act.
Dennis

Jeff L - you ask what Miller would be in trouble for if she were one the providing Plame's identity to Rove.

The answer: nothing. But SOMEONE would be in trouble for telling Miller, right? And the prosecutor would want to know how Miller found out...right?  And Miller WOULD be in trouble for not divulging that person's identify to a grand jury, right?

Both Miller and Cooper are in hot water for contempt, but maybe it's for different reasons.

1. Cooper - for refusing to disclose his conversations with Rove.

2. Miller - for refusing to disclose the identity of whoevever told her about Plame.

Let's assume Miller did tell Rove - and Rove told Cooper.  Then Rove broke the law.  But who told Miller?  THAT is who the prosecutor is looking for from Miller.  Her refusal to tell is why she's in trouble. 

History has proven Joe Wilson was correct in everything he represented. Why was his wife outed? Was this political retribution? Did it intimidate others who live in glass houses? What did we lose from her disclosure? How many years did it take to build this web of relationships? How many people were compromised once her cover was blown? How long will it take before the CIA can rebuild this network? What has the cost been to the USA? That this should come about from a collusion between journalists and high placed administration officials is a deep and profound travesty, and a complete betrayal of loyalty to the US. Why can't everyone grasp this fact? How invested in a political outcome do you have to be to ignore the damage that has been done to US intellegence interests?

If a reporter had to be jailed in this whole mess, it couldn't have happened to a "nicer" person than Judith Miller. (Novak is a close second.)  Miller's role as the Administration's chief pro-war disinformation agent in the MSM-- she shamefully relied on uncorroborated  sources like Ahmed Chalabi and Curveball -- was enough to earn her a place in the slammer.

Yes, that is a different matter from the issue of journalistic privilege, existing law and whether we should have a federal shield statute. But as concerns the effects of her imprisonment there is a silver lining. Granted, there will be a chilling effect on future whistle blowers, but this is a sword that cuts both ways- it could also  discourage future Miller-esque psy op disinformation campaigns, at least those that have a criminal element to them (such as bogus leaks that originate from within the Pentagon).

One need only review the fifty disinformation operations associated with the Iraq War that Col. Sam Gardiner's documents in his "Truth From These Podia" to understand the length that the Administration will go to sell a war, and then maintain public support for it.  Using the cover of journalistic privilege shouldn't be a tool available to the insidious propagandist.

Propagandee 


CW is that he sang early in the game. So he's probably the source of "the source" that Fitzgerald says he knows about. Suspect it's much messier than that and Fitzgerald is going after perjury or obstruction charges.

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What do ya'll think?

Try again, brownshirt.

Or Miller could BE Cooper's source. They presumably saw each other at the courthouse today ....

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Could Ahmed Chalabi be Miller's source? Would that mean anything at all? Why would she protect him if he was?

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brownshirt? lmao. That attituide and level of thought process keeps my folks in power, and you a whining piece of naval lint.

What an elegant, simple explanation! Of course! Joe Wilson endangered the life and ruined the career of his gorgeous, intelligent wife in order to undermine his own credibility and destroy his argument against the President's justification for war! Wow. I'm gonna run out and change my party affiliation right now. Thanks for the post. Keep up the great work.

Agaian and again and again......why is Novak not in jail or under indictment? He 'printed' the story and 'co-operated' with Fitzgerald, meaning he told Fizgerald who his sources were.
Miller and Cooper are 'dirt in the air'.

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So you're surprised at the Bush adminstration's astonishing lack of loyalty to Judith Miller? What do you expect when you see how they are treating Katherine Harris, who certainly did more for George than Miller did beating his bellicose drum to the masses. As the old saying goes, there is no loyalty among thieves. Read more about it here:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2121746

Also, don't forget how shabbily the Bush family is treating Neil's ex-wife and their own grandchildren. After "Neilsy" was caught buying Asian prostitutes, his wife and children were hung out to dry by the Bush's.

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I offer a proposition: accept, just for a moment, that someone as high up and valuable to the conservative cause as Karl Rove - arguably the most valuable Conservative operator in a generation - is a) guilty of a crime b) about to be discovered and c) headed to jail.

In return, howe

If you were a Bush supporter, how would you react?

I say I'd take this deal

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The crime IS the leak.  A lawyer and client cannot conspire a criminal activity.  If the crime is the leak, then the reporter must reveal their source (a co-criminal) or go to jail.  And I don't know why a reporter would want to hold a source who has used them to commit a crime or used them for political gain.  Speak up or be the criminal ...
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So you're surprised at the Bush adminstration's astonishing lack of loyalty to Judith Miller? What do you expect when you see how they are treating Katherine Harris, who certainly did more for George than Miller did beating his bellicose drum to the masses. As the old saying goes, there is no loyalty among thieves. Read more about it here: http://slate.msn.com/id/2121746 Also, don't forget how shabbily the Bush family is treating Neil's ex-wife and their own grandchildren. After "Neilsy" was caught buying Asian prostitutes, his wife and children were hung out to dry by the Bush's.

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there is a simple explanation for all this. ms. miller, the sometimes sole-sourced reporter at the nyt whose articles promoted the idea of saddam as an imminent threat, and esrtwhile member of PNAC, was, and probably is, an OSP operative. my guess is that is was SHE who leaked plame's identity to bob novak, after failing to get the info published at the nyt.

this has nothing to do with freedom of the press. whoever outed ms. plame was not uncovering a crime, they were committing one. ms. miller going to jail is just an elaborate shadow play, a cover for her shilling for the WH.

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"I suspect that Judith is hiding behind the 1st Amendment to avoid invoking the 5th." <p>

My late husband used to say "the simplest explanation that fits all the facts is usually the truth."

According to the prosecutor's motion against home detention, he mentions that Judith Miller already has a waiver from her source, and at least implies that he already knows who that source is.

The only explanation I have come up with that fits these facts is just this--she's hiding from a criminal charge. Otherwise, why would she go to jail for a source who is a)known, and b)willing to allow her to testify?

In Miller's case, her principled stand probably has to do with how the NYT will look once it is seen how proactively she was a part of pimping White House smears.

I'm not yet convinced that Miller's is a principled stand. 

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As I understand it, Mr. Rove has confessed to going on a vendatta against Mr. Wilson by talking about Plame after Novak outed her.

No one of note in the press seems to have said anything about this despicable behavior.

The greatest irony of all: if Miller in fact told Rove, rather than vice versa, Rove may not be guilty even if he then told Cooper! The statute requires that the government official who leaked - in this case Rove - be "authorized" to view that information.  I'd hardly call Judie Miller an "authorized" channel.

Indeed, Rove can argue that he was merely passing on information about Plame that he was told by Miller and that he did not gain that information using "authorized" channels. He also didn't "knowingly" disclose an agent's identity, since he was only passing on a piece of gossip giving to him by Judie.  Rove can argue he was merely wearing his "political operative" hat here...and that he didn't even have authorized access to information regarding Plame's CIA role.

If all this is true, the person who will take the fall is not Rove, but the source who orginally told Miller (her failure to rat on this person is why she's in jail). Sadly, there's a good chance the person who told Miller about Plame never intended for the information to be used in a Karl Rove political hit job!  More likely, it was just one of those secrets that gets talked about between CIA sources and NY Times WMD reporters.  It probably isn't the source's fault that Judie turned around and told the biggest villain in American politics.

How bad a reporter is Judie?  Not only did she give Rove the ammo to attack Wilson, but she burned the hell out of the source who told her about Plame.  No wonder the prosecutor's memo was so disrespectful towards her.  I'm sure he wishes he could charge HER under the anti-leaking statute.  She'll rot in jail until she gives up the name of the person he CAN charge.

Every time I reread that snippet about Rove learning of Plame's CIA status from a journalist, I think of JimmyJeff GuckertGannon well before I think of Judy Miller.

That's just a reflex, though. It's not a theory or even a hypothesis.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the chain here turned out to be Bolton to Miller to Rove. Bolton had the means, the motive, and, as it turns out, the MO to go snooping around on Joe Wilson to learn what he could use to strike back at him. The rest is left as an exercise for the reader. But, from here, that's still just a guess.

Part of my problem is I can't get too worked up over the threat that this may have a chilling affect on anonymous sources. It's not like the media has been investigating this White House with any kind of zeal, and even when they do, more often than not the confidentiality is used to protect "White House sources" from their disninformation and smear jobs in their defense. Right now I'd say confidentiality is more an enemy of the public good than a benefit, used to lie more often than inform, and to protect the guilty more often than the innocent.

They've undermined my interests too long to get me to shed any tears. 

Errr...they are all identified as "admistration sources" who work in the executive branch. It would seem to me that Joe Wilson does not fit that description.

What is it with Bush supporters? Whether a crime was committed or not, what this administration did is ridiculous! They outed an undercover CIA agent. Period. Isn't that something that goes beyond politics? I love a little cognitive dissonance now and then, but this is out of control. How will you handle it if administration officials are indicted? Talk about tinfoil hat time...

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Some of these theories to explain the meaning of the bit about reporters telling government officials that Plame was a CIA agent and married to Wilson are absurd.  Did it ever occur to you all that this is just another way of saying that reporters called officials to confirm the story?

I can envision Rove having a minion call a bunch of reporters to leak the news.  These reporters then called Rove to confirm that Wilson's wife is indeed a CIA operative and Rove could have said "yes".  Such a scenario seems to fit not only what Rove's lawyer said but what the Washington Post blurb said as well.

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Judith Miller is _in_ the CIA. Hey, don't arrest _me_, I'm only guessing (but you know she is.....9-))

We're all -- or almost all of us (I except Josh) are just spinning our wheels here. One of the most frustrating aspects of this frustrating story is that at least a few and possibly quite more than that know who leaked to whom and just what was said.  Yet from the first, the NYT has stood high on the horse of the freedom of the press and, as Arthur Sulzberger Jr. has just put it "the greater good of our democracy" and "conscience."  We are asked to take it on faith that Judith Miller is protecting a source and thereby democracy itself.  But does that mean that no one else at the NYT (or anywhere else in the print media and broadcast media, for that matter) is not allowed to investigate and get to the bottom of this story?  Instead, it's left to the bloggers and those of us who read them to try to piece the shards of evidence together.

I think it's worth going back to John Dean's 2nd Findlaw column about the Plame matter. Dean's point is that even if Rove isn't the original source, he may be subject to conspiracy and fraud charges. As Dean puts it, "Suppose a conspiracy is in progress. <b>Even those who come in later, and who share in the purpose of the conspiracy, can become responsible for all that has gone on before they joined.</b> They need not realize they are breaking the law; they need only have joined the conspiracy." If Rove is in the information chain, even if he got it from Miller, he may still be in the gunsights.

LINK

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Judith should be incarcerated, moved around and treated the same as Susan McDoudal.

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That is a biological function of snakes. They slither out of their skins. He definitely is one.

Could it be that Rove didn't start this after all?


Judith Miller has long-term and close relationships with a number of, shall we say, interesting people.  She co-authored a book with well-known fanatic Laurie Mylroy and was close to Daniel Pipes (she had a formal relationship with Pipes' "Middle East Forum"), and of course she was a strong promoter of Ahmad Chalabi.  It seems that these go beyond the normal journalist-source relationship; Ms. Miller is an advocate, not just a journalist.  Pipes has been pushing strongly for military action against Syria.


There's also the issue of her conduct in Iraq.  Journalists observe and report; they don't normally try to give orders to troops or call their general friends to push soldiers around (you may remember Howard Kurtz's story on that matter).


So what if Judith Miller and her true-believer friends took it into their heads to discredit Joe Wilson?  What if Rove's defenders are right and he heard it from a reporter (Miller) and not vice versa?  If so, this does not mean that a crime was not committed; it might mean that Rove is innocent and one of Miller's neocon contacts is guity (for telling Miller, an unauthorized person, about Valerie Plame).


Ms. Miller is at the center of this matter and she must testify, and those journalists who want to defend her conduct as "freedom of the press" are mistaken.  She was not gathering material for an article as she did not write one; she was not defending the "public right to know" because this was the exact opposite of her evident purpose, which was right out of the Hearst playbook: drum up a war and use that war for personal advancement.

Matt Cooper's speach re: saying goodbye to his son was santimonious and disingenuous.  And this guy has a lot of friends amongst the so-called left.  Even Al Frankin is pretending not to understand what's going on.
Question:  Is Mandy Grunwald Cooper's wife?  

Okay, why are all the sources suddenly releasing the reporters from their anonymity agreements? Wouldn't that mean that these sources have been assured that they won't be prosecuted? And doesn't that mean that these sources are either innocent or have been granted immunity from prosecution? And wouldn't that mean that Fitzgerald is actually investigating something bigger than this little leak? I don't mean to be tinfoilhatty here, but I just don't understand what the motive would be otherwise.

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can someone tell me why robert novack is NOT being threatened with jail? does this mean he has told all?  does this mean confidentiality is less important to novack than to cooper and miller...  to me this is not adding up

larry hochhaus, tulsa oklahoma 

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Miller was certainly focused on the bio weapons thing, and had actual footage of terrorists' home chemistry experiments in this area. There was a Frontline show on it. So some information in her reporting may have a bit to the phony buildup, but not in amplifying the whole enterprise as weapons of MASS destruction. That's all to be credited to Bush & co.

someone please explain to me how to do links

I think a server is having trouble right now; I had to tell Mozilla to block images from images.blogads.com, because it was getting hung up trying to access that server, and it wasn't getting as far as displaying the tool set at the bottom of the edit window. 

Assuming that things are working correctly, this is how it works for me, using Mozilla and Windows 2000, and with the "HTML Formatted" option selected for the editor:

At the bottom of this edit window, below the white space where the typing appears, and above the "Preview" and "Post" buttons, is a two-row set of  editing "tools," which can be used for bolding, italicizing, or underlining text, indenting paragraphs, creating bulleted or numbered lists, etc.  On the bottom row of tools, just to the right of center is an image of three links of chain.  That's the "create link" tool.  (If you hover the mouse over it, the label that appears will say "Insert/edit link".  To use it:

  1. Copy the URL for the page you want to link to to the Windows clipboard.
  2. In the editor, highlight the text in your message that you want to use for the link.
  3. Click on the link tool.  You'll get a dialog box (titled "Insert/edit link") with two fields.
  4. The first field (labelled "Link URL") is for the URL.  Paste it from the clipboard (Ctrl+V in Windows).
  5. The second field (labelled "Target") is a drop-down selection for how you want the link to behave.  The default choice is "Open link in the same window" (meaning you'll need to use the back button on the browser after opening the link to get back to where you were).  The other choice is "Open link in a new window" (which opens a separate browser window to display the linked page).  Choose whichever you prefer.
  6. Click on the button labelled "Update".  You should see your text change to indicate that there is a link.  (Mine appears underlined in blue, but I don't know if that's the case for everyone, or just because that's the way my browser is set to display links by default.)
  7. When the message is previewed or posted, the link will show up in red letters.
  8. If you want to change the URL or the link behavior, highlight the linked text and click on the link button again.  Make the necessary changes.  If you want to change the link text, or eliminate the link, highlight the linked text and click on the broken link tool just to the right of the link tool.  That will erase the HTML code for the link.  Then, if you wish, repeat the above steps with whatever different text you want to use for the link.

I hope that helps.  (Note: The tool on the bottom row at the far right, a question mark in a blue circle, is the Help button.)

I'm sure Rove would love for us all to get lost in the details.  Let's not forget the big picture.  Somehow or another Rove gained access to secret information that he used to take revenge on those willing to tell the truth about the lack of evidence for WMD's in Iraq.  Whatever else Rove may or may not have "knowingly" done, he certainly "knowingly" tried to distort the case for war by pushing a story that would punish one truth teller and intimidate others.

The only reason I grudgingly supported the war in Iraq was because President Bush communicated that he had secret information that proved we were in imminent danger from WMD's in Iraq.  As much as I disagreed with him on many issues where I knew all the facts, I had to trust that when the security of the nation was at stake he would not lie to us.

Well, it is becoming more and more clear that at the very least he lied about the strength of his evidence and both ignored and tried to suppress contrary evidence.  As he was the commander-in-chief, it was his responsibility to make sure the evidence was air tight before he both told us it was and used it to justify a war.  As far as I am concerned the fact that Rove was pushing the Plame story to reporters proves that the White House knowingly distorted the case for war. 

It is time for Congress to hold hearings on the political pressures the White House used to manipulate us into war.  This kind of gross manipulation is treasonous, as far as I am concerned because it so undermines our democracy.  Because the Republicans in Congress care more about their party than about our country, they wont investigate themselves.  This need for real investigations should be a rallying cry used by Democrats to help them win back Congress in the next election cycle.

I gather that Rove told reporters Plame was "fair game."  I think it is well past time that Rove learned that our national security is not a "game" and that risking it for political points is treason.

yeah, it's amazing that the sheer smarminess of the whole matter doesn't inspire much outrage.

Speculation over the Plame affair gives me a headache. We enter Rumsfeld's junior high version of analytic epistemology of known unknowns and unknown unknowns.   
Matt Cooper knows a lot. There's no better definition of a reporter than someone who tells what he/she knows. If he can tell it to the grand jury, he can tell it to us. Somebody who can get through should place a call to Pearlstine and ask him if he plans to run a Cooper piece and if not, why not? 
  And let's not forget, Joe Wilson was sent to Niger because he was uniquely qualified: he recently had held high-level embassy jobs in both Niger and Iraq. Why Democrats didn't press this point --easy to understand and concise enough to fit a tabloid newshole -- from the day Novak's column appeared is a complete mystery. The political pushback on this has been pathetic.

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WRONG.

Watch and let this unfold like a beautifully crafted jigsaw puzzle. Fitsgerald is putting the pieces together, and the pieces lead to more than just Rove.

Like Deep Throat said, "follow the money"-in this case, its "follow the news articles" on Joe Wilson from start to present---piece together ALL the incidents, starting from when Wilson was asked by CHENEY to investigate whether or not Iraq purchased yellowcake uranium from Niger---remember that one?

THEN put it together chronologically. You'll see one story, then the same story refuted, then the truth remaining. Its got ALL the players in it, including Bolton, Rice and company.

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If Bush were an ethical man uninvolved in the leak, when the leak occurred, he would have called his staff into the Oval Office, demanded that the leaker fess up, fired him/her on the spot and cooperated fully in a criminal prosecution.  Then, the guilty person would go to jail.  Instead, the President has participated in a cover up, pretending to cooperate while in fact everyone in the Administration lawyers up and takes advantage of every delaying maneuver imagineable.  That the Bush Gang was able to delay the forthcoming disclosures for an additional year (allowing more than enough time for the President to be re-elected) is deplorable.

Let's hope Judith Miller is not the only person who goes to jail over this affair.

If Miller is the direct source for Cooper, he could well have been released by her at the court house!

No, it's not Miller; Cooper's July 17, 2003 article cited "government officials":

And some government officials have noted to TIME in interviews, (as well as to syndicated columnist Robert Novak) that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. These officials have suggested that she was involved in her husband's being dispatched [to] Niger to investigate reports that Saddam Hussein's government had sought to purchase large quantities of uranium ore, sometimes referred to as yellow cake, which is used to build nuclear devices.

 (As quoted by David Corn in his "Capital Games" blog on the Nation web site.)

 

OK...let me get this right.  Judith Miller has a source in the administration who was either involved in or has knowledge of the efforts to out Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, right?  This is probably a person who was involved in, or knew of the people, trying to destroy Joe Wilson's credibility in showing that the war in Iraq is built on lies by the Bush administration, am I correct?

If so I have no idea why we aren't screaming about Miller's refusal to give up her source.  It is either she is protecting her reputation, out of professional vanity, on a story she screwed up.  Or she is complicit in the attack on Joe Wilson and his family for telling the truth on the Yellowcake uranium story.  So out of selfishness or complicity she is aiding and abetting the people who want to cover-up the fact that we went to war on lies. 

Drudge is quoting (in large part, anyway) the New York Times.

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Did the President fall off his bike before or after he heard the news about Cooper?

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From the Washington Post: "After today's hearing, Keller, the New York times editor, said the judge's order of jail time for Miller was chilling because it was likely to facilitate 'future coverups' involving government information." Yet isn't Miller facilitating a current coverup by refusing to speak - and indeed refusing to speak after her source has reportedly released her to speak?

Also from the Post:  "'Anybody who believes government . . . should be closely and aggressively watched should feel a chill up their spine today," he [Keller] said.'"  Yet doesn't Miller's refusal to speak effectively prevent us from closely and aggressively watching our government - in particular, the high-ranking government officials who cloak themselves in anonymity before trashing other people?

ok, just kidding.

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Bush mentioned at the beginning that he would cooperate to find who outed Plame. Afterwards, he just said it's too difficult, too many people. Just another shining example of how forthright and forthcoming this administration is...
not

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This is a criminal story with some espionage on the side.  Everyone involved with Judy, Chalabi, and WHouse leakers make it easy to imagine a maze of deceit from everyone.  With the Queen of Iraq safely in jail, they will probably all get off.   The only puzzlement is Novak.   Perhaps Fitzgerald has something and will use it, while  we wait for the next installment.   Media whoring has become an honorable profession in this administration, but hopefully prosecutor Fitzgerald is on the level.

What "principle" is Miller standing on exactly? The Supreme Court in its restraintist decision Branzburg v. Hayes, 33 years ago, said that a reporter has no constitutional right to protect his/her sources. That ruling has been the constitutional law of the land since then. Has news gathering been "chilled" since then?

In the same decision, the Court instructed legislatures to pass shield laws for reporters. Some have, but Congress certainly hasn't. Whether shield laws are a good idea is an open question. National public opinion has said no so far. Miller simply has violated the law and should pay the price.

You obviously haven't spent time in a DC jail.  That is an experience I seriously wouldn't wish on my worse enemy.

it is very unlikely anyone in the white house would every know the names

 Ever heard of the OSP?  Cheney had plants deep in the CIA.

"Knowingly" as in knowing that Plame was under cover, and that the CIA was taking active steps to keep her identity secret.  Plenty of people work for the CIA who are not under cover.  Rove (or whoever the original leaker was) could claim that he/she thought Plame was an analyst, not an undercover agent.  Not that I would believe that; Novak specifically identified Plame as an "operative," a term he has always heretofore reserved to indicate someone working under cover, indicating that whoever leaked to him had told him her true status.  But what I believe, or even what Fitzgerald believes, isn't the issue: the issue is what Fitzgerald can prove.  And proving what someone actually knew is not so easy--that's why Scrushy was acquitted in the HealthSouth case.  Perjury is still a possibility, though, and I'd be satisfied to see Rove frog-marched for that.

I'll step up and admit ignorance - what is the OSP? Why is it relevant?

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The concept of hiding behind the first amendment to avoid the fifth is appealing but Miller's lawyer made clear that she is a witness, not a subject or target of the investigation (I think this means she won't get upgraded to anything serious).

Perjury in the grand jury by one or more White House officials is still a big deal, a conspiracy could involve many people, and the prosecutor might still find that someone was knowingly spreading the "Plame" name with a political motivation.

Whatever details ar finally released it will be very interesting. 

This sheds some light on the story. We learn two things here. First, neither reporter viewed the written waiver that came via Fitzgerald as a sufficient release of confidentiality because of its coercive nature. And second, unless there's some reason the source didn't or couldn't call Miller, we're dealing with two different sources here. The quote from Abrams implies that Miller would talk if she received a personal release like Cooper's.

[Floyd Abrams] said that unlike Cooper, Miller had not received any specific permission from her source to disclose the source's identity. Abrams said a waiver that Fitzgerald said the source signed is not a valid release of Miller's obligation to maintain confidentiality.

"Judy Miller made a commitment to her source, and she's standing by it," Abrams said.

It was not immediately clear whether the same person was a source for both Miller and Cooper. Although Fitzgerald has said the source has waived confidentiality, the prosecutor has not identified the person.


* * *

 But then, Cooper said, his source contacted him and dramatically gave him "a specific, personal and unambiguous waiver to speak before the grand jury."

Unlike the "government-issued waiver" handed out by the prosecutor, Cooper said, this waiver was "uncoerced." It was only then, Cooper said, "that I felt free after two years under threat of jail to speak to the grand jury."


Here's the link (formatting isn't working): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/06/A
R2005070600283_pf.html

Miller already has a waiver from her source

Well, yes, but so did Cooper: the waiver that all White House employees were asked (i.e. required) to sign.  The position that Cooper and Time took was that that waiver wasn't good enough, because it was implictly coerced.  Cooper only agreed to answer questions about his conversations with Scotter Libby after Libby specifically released him from his promise of confidentiality.  He was prepared to go to jail until he got a similar last-minute release from whatever other source (Rove?) the prosecutor was interested in.

My assumption is that Miller and the NY Times are taking the same position, and that it's either a different source in question in her case, or the source did not release her even though he/she released Cooper.

 

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Unquestionably, Chalabi who is operating comfortably [again] in Iraq doing his cruddy stuff is untouchable.  He snookered his neo-con friends and the CIA with false info about WMD's [with Judy hawking it] , whilst he made hundreds of thousands.  He even was accused of selling our secrets to Iran.  Judy,  is being treating like a principled journalist and martyr by CNN and media.   Fitzgerald has been stymied because Cooper and Miller
have been stalling the investigation. This devious mess will hopefully unravel .

No, the worst case would be that nothing can be proven on anyone, and Fitzgerald folds the tent with no indictments, meaning that he's also under no obligation to make public anything that his investigation uncovered.  All the perps walk, and Bush claims vindication.

 

Lindsay, the OSP is the Office of Special Projects, the parallel intel operation that Cheney set up because the CIA wasn't coming up with links between AQ and Iraq or fearsome enough findings on WMDs. Seymour Hersh wrote a great article for the New Yorker about how the OSP was used to "stovepipe" raw intel right up to Cheney's waiting ears....

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Only a Bush supporter would come up with an amoral plot that has no logic inherent in it whatsoever.  Wilson hurting his wife seems a better idea for a Bushie than the truth.........that these devious immoral SOB's will stoop to anything in their cesspool of political hell.  You know...the end justifies the means.  None of your neocon meanderings makes the slightest bit of sense.

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A wonderful idea.  Miller should sweat if only for the lies she pushed about WMD's for her pal Chalabi.  This is one evil lady.

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Has the missing White House briefing transcript from right after Wilson's article in July 2003, and which Fitzgerald requested, ever turned up?  Why would someone want to hide this?

I also agree that the press is fogging the issues: the Administration is under investigation here, not imposing its power on press freedoms, and damage has been done to the function of the CIA and to the Wilson's personally.  I'd like to see the press support this sort of oversight on political excesses by government.

Okay, why are all the sources suddenly releasing the reporters from their anonymity agreements?

Well, it's only one source, as far as we know.  Maybe he/she was hoping that the case would be resolved in the reporters' favor, that they wouldn't have to talk, and that nobody would go to jail.  But when it became clear that Cooper would, indeed, have to go to jail, the source released him rather than be the cause of his imprisonment.   

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Josh, you may have hit the nail on the head. We need to remember that this is the Nixon White House, in moral tone if not in name. And what would Nixon do? 

The likelihood is that much of what we are being fed is pap to support a "limited hangout" scenario. Mistakes were made, but crimes were not committed; well, maybe small crimes but not big ones, well maybe big crimes but so what. The point of limited hangout is to grind down the opponent, spin out the clock.

There is absolutely no reason to give the slightest credit to what is published in The New York Times or The WaPo. Both papers have proven that they do not care what the truth is. Yes, there are decent reporters in each establishment. Management, however, is behaving as if the papers were an organ of the state, unflinchingly putting out the Party Line.

Assuming everyone is lying, distorting, posturing, positioning. It saves time and aggravation.

--js

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It is interesting how much of the prosecution case is still unknown.

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Ted Rall observes some circumstantial dates that are among the more curiouser, if not yet directly relevant:


- - -

Rove, whose gaping maw recently vomited forth that Democrats didn't care about 9/11, is atypically silent. He did talk to the Time reporter but "never knowingly disclosed classified information," claims his attorney. But there's circumstantial evidence to go along with Time's leaked notes.


Ari Fleischer abruptly resigned as Bush's press secretary on May 16, 2003, about the same time the White House became aware of Ambassador Wilson's plans to go public. (Wilson's article appeared July 6.) Did Fleischer quit because he didn't want to act as spokesman for Rove's plan to betray CIA agent Plame? Another interesting coincidence: Novak published his Plame column on July 14, Fleischer's last day on the job.

- - -

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Rove's brilliance! This skank was fired by W's old man for doing the same thing to a fellow campaign worker. His take no prisoner, attack the messenger, smear and spread lies(Swift Boats for Truth ring a bell?) isn't brilliance, its the lowest common denominator. If he is or isn't, his hands are somewhere in this. Nobody in that White House does anything unless it goes by him. And I believe that includes our potential Tour De France bicycling president.

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Exactly.  They're not using confidentiality to protect some lowly, vulnerable whistle-blower; they're using it to protect some high-ranking slime-thrower, to whom they're usually sucking up for scoops.

http://www.needlenose.com/node/view/1592


This is the post of mine that Jeff L. is referring to throughout his comment.

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KC Connor     I just wanted to try your ideas.

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I was wondering, Rove is not in Europe with the Bush camp. Do you think he was told "not to leave the country".  Far fetched, but probable!

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Wow, such nonsense I've never seen.  This is not all that tough to figure out.  Here's the answer:  Someone at the White House (Rove is my guess, but it doesn't matter who), outs Wilson's wife in retaliation for telling the truth about the administration's lies.  This WH source tell Novak, Cooper, and Miller, among possibly others.  Novak publishes it; Miller/Cooper do not.  Crime committed by WH source.  Look under federal sentencing guidelines folks -- it's quite serious -- depending on upward departures, at least 120 months in federal prison.  Basically, it's like treason.  Justice department investigates.  They ask Novak who his source is.  Novak refuses to speak, not because of any reporter's privilege, but based on 5th Amendment grounds -- ie., he may also have committed or aided a federal crime. He clams up.  Federal prosecutors go to Miller and Cooper.  They can't assert 5th (they didn't publish), so they assert the confidential source privilege.  They fight it, lose, and face jail time.   Cooper's employer (giant corporate conglomerate) doesn't have the stomach for it.  They reveal notes, cross their fingers that that's enough.  Nope.  Cooper's arm twisted, he agrees to testify.  Miller in different situation.  She works for NY Times, and no way could they reveal source.  They stand behind her. 

The Novak situation still puzzles me. Why does he have seeming immunity from Fitzgerald? After all, he is the one who outed Plame, and did so after the CIA, according to his own admission, asked him not to do so. This means that he must have checked with the agency before going to publication. He stresses that no one from CIA made him aware that anyone else would get hurt by the revelation of Plame's employment by CIA, so he went ahead with the story. Obviously, Novak was aware that Plame would get hurt, though.

Was George Tenet someone who would be considered a "top administration source"? Could Rove have told Novak (or perhaps Miller told Rove, who told Novak what Miller had told him), then Novak called Tenet to confirm, and Tenet is the one who confirmed and asked Novak not to go to print with the Plame leak?

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based on what we now know, this article identifies Karl Rove as one of the leakers....assuming Priest and Allen's source is correct:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&con
tentId=A11208-2003Sep27&notFound=true/

"A source said reporters quoted a leaker as describing Wilson's wife as "fair game."


This is word for word the phrase used by Karl to Chris Matthews.

Umm ... who told Cooper,  Novak, et al then?

Damn. You know, I wasn't sure this whole thing was going to turn out the way we hoped, but it certainly seems like the gnomes in the basement of the RNC have been activated.

We're on the scent, boys and girls. Let's go get em! 

One little piece of information I didn't see above in thread, although I didn't read everything ...

Matt Cooper's wife is a lady named Mandy Grunwald, one of the genuinely good people in politics and someone who knows absolutely everyone who is anyone in progressive or Democratic politics in DC. I mean, she's at the level where, if you aren't friends with her, you're nobody.

Makes sense, then, that so much of this story seems to be known by so many in those closed DC social-political circles. This couple is no ordinary DC power couple.  

You know, when you put together a theory of a case like this, you at least have to lay out all the established facts, and make certain you test your theory against them. 

Joe Wilson's book contains a wealth of facts and partial analysis of these (it was published in early 2004) that indeed need to be accomodated.

Of some importance -- he began to publicly question Bush's policy leading toward the invasion of Iraq in the fall of 2004 with a San Jose Mercury News op-ed.  Shortly after that, he later learned, someone in the White House ordered up a complete "workup" on Joe Wilson.  That was late 2002, early 2003.  Now since Wilson had a highly distinguished twenty year plus record as a Foreign Service officer in State, one place the "workupers" might have looked was his personnel record.  From that virtually everything Wilson did or knew for over 20 years would have been available to someone who could pull his record at State.  And yes, the fact that he was married to Plame -- and probably even departmental memo on someone from State marrying someone from CIA would have all been there. 

In addition, when Joe Wilson married Valerie in 1998 -- he received a nice note from GHW Bush.  They were somewhat close as Wilson (as so many seem to have forgotten) was the "Stand up to Saddam" guy in the 6 months before the 91 Gulf War -- and when he arrived back in the US, he got long meetings with Bush, hugs from Barbara, and a new appointment as ambassador.  Wilson is close to Eagleberg, to Jim Baker, and to Brent Scowcroft. 

But he was also very close to Bill Clinton, Al Gore (he once worked in Gore's Senate Office) and he also had worked for Tom Foley.  And to make matters even more interesting, just before Clinton put him in the NSC during his second term, Wilson had the top diplomatic job with NATO working out of Germany.  He knows as many 4 Star Generals as anyone -- did the diplomatic stuff for Bosnia in NATO --

In otherwords, Joe Wilson has a whole lot of friends in State, in the Military, and in both political parties.  He also has lots of Journalist friends, particularly those who covered Iraq or Africa.  In the lead up to Desert Storm, he had Rather, Koppel and all the rest of them living in "his" embassy in Baghdad.  The only folk he does not seem to like much -- and where he has no friends, is within the ranks of the neo-cons.  He has nothing but distain for that crowd.  It is highly useful to understand what kind of person the White House decided to smear and destroy in 2003.  It helps in putting together a theory of the case.

As to Miller -- her long interest has been bioterrorism.  She conducted a long interview with Bill Clinton about this, his first, shortly after his impeachment was rejected in Feb. 1998, she did a frontline program through WGBH on it, and wrote a book.  When her book came out shortly after 911, she got a fake Anthrax attack that cleaned out the NYTimes offices for a day or so.  This led to her being featured on TV quite a bit on the issue.  There is much to explain about her reporting -- but I don't think you get close to figuring out this thing by calling her a lot of names.  Yep, I agree, she got far too close to the Iraqi Exile groups, and perhaps they deceived her as much as they did others.  I don't think the CIA was ever fooled -- but people in Bush's circle and the Pentagon certainly were.  What seems critical to understand is the sources of her midjudgement. 

I've started re-reading her Holocaust book (1990) where she explores how "memory" was assimilated in various European Countries.  I remember not thinking too highly of it when I first read it -- but perhaps it holds some keys to how she approaches construction of various kinds of reality.  (Book is "One By One By One"  Simon and Schuster.)  Anyhow -- she started working for the Times in 1977 -- and spent about 15 years in the Middle East, at one time as Bureau Chief of the Cairo Bureau. 



Add to the above the fact that Bush consulted with a lawyer Jim Sharp about his vulnerability in the Plame matter, and later hired him to be present when questioned by Fitzgerald. The Bush/Sharp consultation happened just prior to the resignation of George Tenet (both were announced on June 3), which was before Fitzgerald interviewed Bush. What did Jim Sharp tell BUsh that made it important to get rid of George Tenet before Bush was questioned by Fitzgerald?

First, in what manner is Karl Rove to be considered a whistleblower?  The implication of the information provided about Wilson being sent to Niger at his wife's suggestion, while false, is that something akin to nepotism occurred so that the spouse of a government employee could get a free trip to a foreign country.  For this, Rove would have needed anonymity to protect himself from retribution for being a whistleblower?

If the whole argument about "protecting sources" and the subsequent defense of Miller and Cooper for standing on principle and protecting their sources (at least until their sources give them a King's X) is based on protecting a putative whistleblower who is one of the most powerful men in the country and who in fact blew a false whistle (never mind the national security issues) regarding something that might be strongly questioned as an offense in the first place, then all those editorial writers have wasted a lot of ink and much of our time.  If they want to protect whistleblowers (a good thing), I'd suggest they go find a real one (an even better thing).

Second, although the specific statute under which administration officials are liable for prosecution when "knowingly" revealing the covert status of an intelligence agent may not apply to civilians such as Ms. Miller or Mr. (I choke on the honorific) Novak, I find it hard to believe that she, for crimes we now suspect, and he, for crimes any fool would be able to identify as treason, are not somehow subject to indictment under some statute.  Surely it would not be possible for me, an ordinary blogger, to go to Langley, cuddle up to someone in the know, receive information about covert operatives one way or another, and then go blab the information on my blog--or my local corporate media outlet--without being subject to some criminal penalty.

If neither I nor the two "reporters" under discussion are liable for any sort of penalty in those circumstances, I would think that Congress might want to do a little tinkering with the Patriot Act or something.  After all, if it's suspicious to pay cash for a plane ticket, it's surely suspicious to publish the NOC list.

Third (and last for now), I think we ought to make a distinction between Valerie Plame and the intelligence network that she was associated with.  There is some question--whether valid or not--that she was still active as a covert operative at the time her identity was revealed.  Similarly, there is some question--whether valid or not--regarding how much her identity may have been an open secret in some circles.  The questions seem to be used to diminish the potential for ill effect from revealing her identity.  We can argue that, I suppose, but our focus seems too narrow if we consider Valerie Plame to be the only one harmed by the actions of those who decided to reveal her identity.  Ongoing activities and networks were compromised when her name was used to show the link between them and the CIA.  This is not about one woman--and certainly not about Joe Wilson and his wife--it's about the network.

I have a friend who is a high ranking British intellgence agent and when this Rove leak happened, he was furious - steaming mad. According to him, it was a clear attempt to have her killed and that fact that she didn't get killed is largely luck. He says there is no other reason to do what they did, other than to get her taken out. 
It's interesting - if you look back at Cliff Baxter's suicide, and the fact that only Democrats received anthrax (well and the "liberal" media - most notably THE ENQUIRER which alone ran the infamous Jenna and her girlfried photo) and the fact that the only reason that Pubs had the Senate after 02 was because two Democratic senators died in plane crashes within two weeks of the election (Carnahan and Wellstone), the Plame leak just looks like one more Soprano move by an organized GOP. I do believe the RICO statutes could be used to take down one of our political parties. 

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My latest theory is that Miller told Matalin.  Matalin spread the Plame name to other reporters she knows, perhaps at the party the prosecutor wanted info about.  Then the reporters contact Libby prior to Novak's column, see this link: 

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/07/judy_miller_pro.htm
l

Perhaps Miller knows Matalin did this and wants to protect her, and her family.  Matalin was one of the first people questioned by the grand jury, perhaps she perjured herself - she's not commenting, like Novak. 

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Note that Matt Cooper's source has given Cooper permission to talk (and to thus stay out of jail), but Judy Miller's source apparently has not.

That means that 1) they have different sources, or 2) they have the same source, but that source likes Cooper more than Miller.

I personally feel that Option #1 is more likely, so let's go with that.

If this is true, then it sure looks like Fitz is using one of the journos for a perjury conviction and the other for the underlying crime conviction -- and that the person targeted for both convictions is Rove.

I'm guessing that Fitzgerald wants to overcome Rove's efforts at plausible deniability by documenting a established pattern and practice of deception on Rove's part.

Think of all the people Fitz has already talked to.  It's not just Novak and Rove.   Fitz has held dozens of interviews of persons involved in this affair.  The more people involved, the greater trouble Rove or anyone else would have in keeping their stories straight. Fitz is keeping track of the inconsistencies and hammering the sources with them.

I expect that Fitz' ultimate gambit is to bring charges of leaking AND perjury against Rove, with the expectation that Rove will try to plea bargain for the lesser charge (which in this case would be perjury) in order to get out from under the leaking charge. Except that Fitz will throw the fricking book at Rove.

Cooper did publish, your analysis is flawed.

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$10 bucks says nobody in the adminstration leaked anything and that the leaker was Plame or Wilson. We can settle over PayPal.

Any takers?

Jan is right: None of us has a real clue as what really is taking place. But why is it that only the blogosphere is working this story? Some years ago there would have numerous papers (and networks) trying to find out the real truth here. Sad, sad state of affairs!! We musn't give up,though!

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I'm not sure I have much sympathy for Mrs Miller. She's trying to portray herself as some sort of martyr here - being in a situation which is not nearly as clear as most journalists want to make us believe. To see what I mean read the third section of this article

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18111 

which is all about this case; and then reconsider the case. Oh, and I agree with what I read somewhere else (I believe it was on the BBC's website) where somebody wrote that given the utterly shoddy reporting we've witnessed in the US over the past few years, it's quite hard to suddenly feel sorry for journalists. It's not like they've shown too much integrity - in particular certainly not Mrs Miller.

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Cooper didn't "reveal" under the law.  Novak did.  Analysis is fine.  You'll see. 

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so true!
why all the whimpering about free press?
bullshit!
this is National Security, folks, not scriblers rights.
answer the Feds or go to jail: seems fair to me.

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Well it could be the same sovrce but the sovrce related more incriminating evidence to Miller than Cooper.  Or the sovrce knew tkat he/she/it (my money is on "it") knew tkat the sovrce was going to be indicted, had a soft spot for Cooper, and let him off the hook.  But that's giving "it" too much kredit, isn't it?

But one question:  Where are the leaks coming from?  Fitzgerald's reputation would seem to demand a tight lid on things.

Bigjim
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We all know what happen.  The political time machine that is referred to as our justice system needs to work through the truth and come up with a result that will keep those who fight dirty an opportunity to continue their attacks on those telling the truth.

Novak represents the messenger for the neopubicans that are not part of the real world of politics but those who have an agenda spread by those like Albert and Roberta Wolsetter who were neo recruiters and tried to work the room of the military and others in 90's.  If you can not recruit then distroy is their plan.  

Wilson is just a speck on the on going plan by our neo friends who will continue to work the room of our government to distroy any chance to work with the rest of the world.  They can do this with the back room organizations who feed our elected officals who listen to them and not those who elected them.  

All who need their jobs in both the press and the government are not moved to break out like Wilson.  I know the pressure of the hammer of such pressure and know the need to break out and fight for the truth.  The Ameican Public take a great deal of time to understand what is going on.  Based on history it will take a great many more deaths in  this war to bring the polls down on our government concerning their lies and acts that have broken the law.

The press is the real problem in this issue.  They are not willing to bring the pressure to require Bush who could care less since he is not running again, to be Presidential and make sure he cleans house. (where is Woodward, Wilson should have given his information in a dark parking garage) Bush stays loyal to the smear agents who ran his political campaigns.  

Not one person will pay for what Bush and his administration did to Wilson and his family and broke the law.  The plan is to drag this on for years so the Ameican Pubic will forget.  The plan to date is working.    

Fitzgerald said that his investigation was finished months ago, except for the testimony of Cooper and Miller. He now has Cooper's testimony, and is going after Miller hard. So, she has the key bit of testimony, which is probably the verification that Rove did indeed know that Plame was a CIA undercover operative.

Rove's attorney has said that Rove did not "knowingly" out Plame, and that Rove did not "identify" her to any reporter. That seems to be the point in question, and Fitzgerald thinks Miller has the knowledge, one way or the other, to let him wrap up his investigation.

My guess is that Rove will get indicted for perjury based on Cooper's testimony and possibly for outing Plame with intent to hurt her future job prospects (and that is indirectly the same as intent to hurt the intelligence capability of the US), the latter depending on Miller's testimony if she testifies.

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We're too moronic to figure it out.  Help us, please.

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The efforts of T Carlson et al suggest that the Right is clearly  trying to give cover to some people (because there actually is a crime. perhaps many!), thus Conservatives say "there is no crime."

Why would they do this?  Because it is remains a potent issue.

Rightist talking heads have similarly rushed to suggest that "no crime was committed" (first seen by me with McGlaughlin last week).  Why the unanimity?  Because there is an important crime awaiting....

Suppose there is clear evidence that the White House did what what was originally alleged... to revengefully identify a secret agent?  And that there is a conspiracy to hide this? 

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Some "logic" to ponder...
Bush values loyality above honesty and integrity. In this adminstration, people stand for their principals, not their principles. Bush embraces Rovian tactics because he embraces (and owes) Rove. Gonzales owes Bush and is very loyal. Gonzales is responsible for Justice and all the department does. Gonzales can not and will not let this investigation come to any conclusion other than to vindicate all possible administration sources. If merely clearing the WH accused isn't enough, he will find someone else guilty of something else - distraction is a favorite Rovian tactic. Gonzales' and Fitzgerald's careers are on the line...demonstration of loyality will be rewarded, taking someone down will come at the highest price. Rove, Bush, and Cheney are the most powerful men on the planet. They don't forget.

The script is already written. The play is on. We are all caught up in the Miller / Cooper drama just as we are supposed to be - a magician's distraction. Sit back, relax, and watch it unfold.



A few things to remember:

1.  Novak ratted out Miller.

2.  Fitzgerald previously confirmed that Rove/Libby previously waived confidentiality and permitted reports to reveal their identity. it is unlikely either  of them called Cooper this a.m.

3.  Rove probably told grand jury that he got the story from the media and only repeated what he heard.

4.  Luskin said that Rove talked to Cooper after Plame's identity was known to Cooper. 

5.  Cooper receives a supririse phone call from his source that gave him permission to speak.  IMO, Cooper's source, and the person who unexpectedly called him this a.m. was none other than J. Miller.

Miller's silence has less to do with her sacred privilege and more to do with avoiding self incrimination.  She is a co-conspirator with Rove in the leak and cover up.  Rove committed perjury by telling grand jury that he got story from media when it can proven otherwise.

hat tip and acknowledgement  to commenter anothergreenbus in open thread at eschaton for the work.

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OK, I'm going  to throw something to the masses here...

 

After sifting through all the information regardin this case, I've come up with a few assumptions:

 

#1: The leaking of Plame's identity was most certainly a crime. The investigation was started at the behest of the CIA, and I doubt they would've initiated it unless there was no doubt about this.

 

#2: Novak has not been thrown in jail yet because Fitzgerald feels that he may be guilty of some other crime such as perjury or conspiracy charges. Remember that his publishing of Plame's identity is not a crime, the leak itself was. I suspect that Novak is not in jail yet because he used the more valid 5th amendment defense rather than the more flimsy 1st amendment excuse that Cooper and Miller have used.

 

 #3: Miller and Cooper had differnt sources. It seems highly unlikely that the same source would give a waiver to Cooper and not Miller. If it was the same source I doubt that Miller would be in jail now, as Fitzgerald would have the information he needs. All the evidence points to seperate sources.

 

 #4: Cooper's source is Rove. Things seem to be point in that direction.

 

 #5: This is bigger than Cooper, Miller, and Rove. Evidence points to a well coordinated hit against Plame and Wilson.

 

Comming from this angle, I'm suggesting something a few people have touched on but no one seems to be saying. Could Bolton have been the original leaker?  He certainly was in a position to during his term at State. His work there focused on WMD, Miller's beat. The hang up with Bolton's nomination for UN ambassador is the WH's refusal to provide documents related to some of Bolton's requests for communication records of US officials. It seems that a lot of people in the DC circle have known a lot about this incident (Cooper's wife being one of the high rolling DC socialites), if Bolton was involved in the leak democrats on the hill may very well have known his role in the entire incident and are pushing for these documents because they would link him to the Plame case- hence the WH's refusal to turn them over.

 

 With the WP's information saying that a reporter may have been the one passing on Plame's identity to the WH, I'm proposing that events unfolded something like this:

 

Plame's identity was leaked by Bolton to Miller, who calls Rove to confirm. If Rove had any knowledge of Plame beforehand is unknown, and likely difficult to prove. However, we do know that Rove then leaked the information everywhere, but first to his buddy Novak. If Novak knew that he was spreading a covert operative's name all over the press he most certainly could be guilty of at the least conspiracy charges, in this case the consipiracy being an effort to assist the goverment leak. Cooper's role in all this is that he may have known Rove's source to be Miller, which also might explain his reluctance to testify because it would mean discretiting a fellow reporter. Fitzgerald is most likely compelling Cooper to tesitify to establish a timeline for the flow of information in order to try and break the whole thing open and have a decent case.

 

Any thoughts? my one question would be why the administration hasn't dropped his nomination. But to know that I would have to understand these people...

Miller told Novak and Cooper.  Miller called Cooper this a.m. and let him talk.

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I am not a lawyer, but I have never understood miller's claim of protecting sources, dince she didn't publish anything.  What is she protecting?  Someone who told her something she didn't use?

 

I just have always assumed thet she had the weakest case of confidentiallity. 

 

If I talked to someone, who told me something that might have been a crime, could i rfuse to give that information under subpoena.  Actually, I'd probably be charged as a accessory after the fact, and subject to the same penalty as the perp.

 

So get off the first Amendment crap, it does not apply. 

 

 

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Just to make the mix interesting:  I recall hearing over a year ago that not only was Plame's cover blown, but also that of the business she was "employed" by -- which may have been a CIA proprietary.

A commericial cover is fairly standard for an individual operative -- all it takes is a letterhead and a backstopped telephone number or email address.  But creating what appears to be a legitimate  business front for intelligence activity takes years; you actually have to <B>do business</B>.  When Plame was outed, so was the proprietary, to any intelligence officer with half a brain.

I have no opinion about Cooper; however, it seems that Miller is so deeply involved with this administration that she may have lots more to hide than Cooper.  She has been carrying the water for them for a long time.  I don't think she is a hero and I don't think she is going to jail because she works for NYT.  I think there is a much bigger problem for her than to rat Rove out.  I think she probably goes to Cheney and she is expecting a big paycheck even bigger than other media hacks have been getting from Bush Administration. 

I think that John Dean wrote that Rove would still be trouble even if the information was already made public but was still classified by the government.  I don't know how to do links but there were a couple of very good articles by John Dean on Findlaw about this issue.

I think that Wilson said his report was done for Cheney.  I also think Cheney was spending quite a bit of time at the CIA trying to manipulate the WMD evidence.  As VP Cheney could probably have access to whatever information he wanted.

I think Nixon was Pre-pardoned by Ford.

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"How will you handle it if administration officials are indicted"?

The same way they handle everything they don't like, they'll blame it on Clinton!

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"And wouldn't that mean that Fitzgerald is actually investigating something bigger than this little leak?"
Absolutely. And a federal judge (Hogan) would not be taking this as far as it's gone (jail time) just for outing a undercover operative.
Fitzgerald is looking to charge someone with perjury.

OK, you and your previous poster are absolutely right.  Nixon was of course pre-pardoned.   I take it back.  Of course, the political wisdom of pre-pardoning Rove in this case is open to question. 

Again.. Not Quite...
Remember, when Novak did his article, it was a couple of months I think before the CIA sent in its official complaint to the justice dept.  Ashcroft sat on this.  Eventually a second complaint was issued, and eventually press coverage etc got to the point of appointing Mr Fitzgerald.  It's actually been going about a year.
dc

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