If You're Down With P....
A question for Seattle-area readers. Does this "Friends of P-Patch" thingy have anything to do withThe Rentals' song "Friends of P." or is that a pure coincidence?
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A question for Seattle-area readers. Does this "Friends of P-Patch" thingy have anything to do withThe Rentals' song "Friends of P." or is that a pure coincidence?
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I've never heard of the Rental's song "Friends of P," but in Seattle a "P-Patch," or a "Pea Patch" is a lot set aside by the city for a neighborhood garden. The program has been around for years (at least since the late '80s).
Does "Friends of P" have anything to do with urban gardens?
June 3, 2005 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Eggplants and Peas sing:
"and we don't really care about much, no
we don't need to lie (we don't need to lie)
we got nothing in common that I can see
we drink on, we drink on, we drink on...
and get by...we're getting by"
Everyone's looking forward to the video--the Rentals have put together a sort of muppets-inspired thing with singing vegetables and flowers. A homage, if you will, to the Rentals' much beloved pastime of community gardening.
June 3, 2005 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure this was a serious query - but I can report that there were P-Patches in Seattle when I was a hippie kid in Seattle in the mid-1970s - probably about the time Matt Sharp was born ;-). Lots of neighborhoods had these open spaces used for community gardens. I was told years later that the "P" referred to the Picardo family, farmers that allowed needy families to use their spare land to grow food in the city and these "P Patches" came to be commonplace. That might be an urban legend. But the P-patches were a city program by the 1970s, I think. I live in Texas now, but the P-patches are a great example of why I miss Seattle so much!
June 3, 2005 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I work next to the original P-Patch, which is indeed named after the Picardo family. But hey, Matt! Don't be fooled by all the nostalgic romanticizing about these dirt lots: they're monstrous, unattractive expanses of dirt most of the year, and then they're just oversized gardens the rest of the year. Total waste of fine urban space. They should all be paved over and filled with six stories of condominiums. (Seattle has a severe problem with too-low density -- it's basically a big suburb where everyone drives their car solo to get everywhere.)
But then, I'm a disgruntled former Chicagoan living in Seattle against my will.
June 3, 2005 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well I'm just amazed that I'm not the only person who still listens to the Rentals. Was Matt Sharp's solo stuff ever any good, I never got around to checking it out?
June 3, 2005 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
And who are The Rentals?
June 3, 2005 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. There is a new one near Greenlake, and it is gorgeous. By the way, I hope you are semi-kidding about the whole Seattle / density thing. There are so few P-patches in the city that your plan to build condos on them wouldn't do much.
And as for your description of Seattle as "a big suburb where everyone drives their car solo to get everywhere", I'm not sure what you are talking about. Seattle may not be as high density as many east coast cities, but if you think Seattle is like a low density suburb, and you think lots of folks drive cars in Seattle, you obviously haven't been to Shoreline, Edmonds, Lynnwood, Bellevue, Kirkland, Redmond, or any of the hundreds of true suburbs that outlie Seattle.
June 3, 2005 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live in Seattle -- Ballard -- and I walk everywhere: to the store, the movies, coffee, etc. I take a bus to work. Paving over the pea-patches is the dumbest friggin' idea I've ever heard, and I'm hugely in support of density.
And no, the Rentals song has got nothing to do with anything.
June 3, 2005 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was a "modest proposal," folks! Sorry if my satirical intent wasn't clear: no, I don't really think converting P-patches to condos would made a whit of difference to Seattle's low-density problem.
However, I do believe that Seattle is a low-density suburb posing as a real city. Whenever I say that, some well-meaning Seattleite inevitably defensively chimes in: "But I bike to work!" Listen, that's called anecdotal evidence, folks, and it just doesn't cut it. Yes, a small percentage of people live like urbanites in real cities like Portland and Vancouver, but you cannot escape the general reality: Seattle is one of the worst American cities in terms single-occupancy vehicles, proportion of single-family homes, and use of public trans.
But if it's anecdotes you want, here you go. I grew up in NY and lived for 20 years in Chicago. Never owned a car until I moved to Seattle, and now my partner and I are about to become a two-car family -- because it's been simply impossible to find a job within a decent bus ride away from home (development in Seattle having grown up around the car rather than around an urban core with public trans).
There is an enormous anti-density bias out here -- the first time I heard someone denounce density was when I came here (our real estate agent warned us off of certain neighborhoods because of their density). And my jaw just about dropped when my brother-in-law, a native of these parts, told me that "the problem with Seattle is that the lots are just not big enough." And this is an otherwise good cosmopolitan liberal, yearning for a more suburban lifestyle! Completely unaware of how destructive of the environment that lifestyle is.
No, Seattle isn't a suburb like Lynnwood (are we being a little too literal, maybe?), but it's generally got a suburban attitude (see my anecdotes above, see the huge resistance to all proposals to increase density) and most of the city has a suburban layout -- single-family homes where most people drive.
June 4, 2005 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hate anecdotes, but here are some anecdotes. Therefore, "Seattle is one of the worst American cities in terms single-occupancy vehicles, proportion of single-family homes, and use of public trans."
June 4, 2005 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you deny that Seattle has terrible public trans? Do you deny that the vast majority of Seattleites drive solo in their cars to get to work? Do you deny that most Seattleites live in single family homes (and thus use lots more energy than people living in multi-family structures)?
None of this is particularly controversial. Do I really have to spend time searching out a link to prove this utterly banal point, a claim that is not even denied by the flat-earthers who want to keep density down. Geez, I just saw a locally produced program on KCTS about transportation planning in Seattle and they went on and on about how behind the times Seattle is in terms of public transportation. I think the number they cited for solo drivers was 78 percent of Seattleites.
See, the thing about anecdotes is this: if they back up a larger truth, and they are used to illustrate that general point, they are a legitimate rhetorical mode. But use of anecdotes is illegitimate if someone says, "Hey, I'm a resident of Los Angeles, and I take the bus, so Los Angeles must be a fabulous place for public trans!" Or, say, "My grandmother smoked and she lived to 98, so smoking must help you live longer."
You see, the anecdote doesn't align with the general statistics. Whereas my anecdotes do align with the general statistics.
June 4, 2005 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't deny that Seattle is behind many large cities in terms of public transportation or that many Seattlites drive to work solo. But here's what you said:
"Seattle is one of the worst American cities in terms single-occupancy vehicles, proportion of single-family homes, and use of public trans."
I don't have to be a "flat-earther" to believe that statement is incorrect. There are hundreds of cities in Washington State that are worse than Seattle with regard to single-family homes and public transportation. In fact, it is likely that every city in Washington is worse than Seattle on these fronts. And are you seriously arguing that Seattle is worse on these issues than all of the cities that lie in the vast red expanse between the West and East coasts?
Moreover, your original post flatly declares that "Seattle is a low-density suburb posing as a real city" without acknowlegding that densities differ all around Seattle. Density North of 85th St. is low, as that street used to be the boundary of the city. It think the area between 85th and 145th (including Lake City) was annexed in the mid-1950s. As such, the residential lots are bigger in that area, are there are fewer sidewalks. Density in many areas closer to downtown, however, is significantly higher. And again, if you think Seattle is low density, I shudder to think how you would deal with the density of a true suburb.
June 4, 2005 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I couldn't find any report, from KCTS or anywhere else, that "78 percent of Seattleites" were "solo drivers" (presumably to work). The most I could find was old data from 1996 indicating that 74% of the people in the greater Puget Sound area drove to work in single-occupancy vehicles. This was a measure of commuters in the entire region, spanning from Tacoma to Everett, not just Seattlites. Maybe that's what you saw?
June 4, 2005 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reason seattle is low density and has fairly crappy public transportation is that 15-20 years ago it was a small backwater city that no one knew anything about. Then real estate in bigger cities started going up, grunge happened, microsoft happened, Seattle got some of those best city in the usa magazine covers and blam! everyone started moving there.
I lived there for 15 years and what I liked about it was that it wasn't chicago. It didn't have bad traffic (it does now) it didn't have a ridiculous housing market (it does now) it didn't have a bunch of pretentious art-fucks (it does now) or "young urbanites" (it does now, up the butt), or a huge stand of skyscrapers and vast blocks of crappy cracker box condos (it does now). What it used to have was families and old people and neighborhood bars. These have been replaced by chai shops and tattoo parlors.
I was very happy to leave and now I live in a small city and own a house with a big backyard on a street with tall trees and there are community gardens and lots of kids and traffic is minimal and my neighbors are all old and you have to go looking for the posers that you can't escape in Seattle.
And I'm not going to tell you where this is becaseu I don't want anyone else to move here and turn it into another Seattle.
June 4, 2005 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with those saying Seattle is a lousy transportation city. I tolerated living there for four years without a car and it was incredibly frustrating. Sorry, but everything north of Republican is a grid of single-family sprawl (generalization, yes, but five blocks of Fremont center don't make up for 500 blocks of View Ridge). Sorry, bus-only-based transport doesn't work: you stand on the side of the road in the drizzle watching everyone else get there faster going by you, all to get on a form of transportation that then competes with the SOV's for space on the road, moving you just as slow. Standing at a bus stop was like wearing a sandwich board that said I'M AN IDIOT WHOSE TIME IS WORTHLESS on it. And no developer with an eye on the long term is going to push for density around a transportation system that can be eliminated by pulling up a signpost.
I have since moved back to my beloved Boston and take the T every day.
June 6, 2005 9:23 AM | Reply | Permalink